Escape Artists

Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Russell Nash on October 05, 2007, 07:09:40 AM

Title: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Russell Nash on October 05, 2007, 07:09:40 AM
EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma (http://escapepod.org/2007/10/04/ep126-the-sweet-sad-love-song-of-fred-and-wilma/)

By Nick DiChario (http://www.nickdichario.com) and Mike Resnick (http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/farmer/2/).
Read by Stephen Eley.
First appeared in Science Fiction Age, November 1994.

So there you have him, Frederick Bannister, tripping across the highways and byways of of life, stubbing a toe here, bruising an elbow there, spilling this, dropping that, and managing to make it to the halfway point without too many major accomplishments or disasters.

And what of Wilma?

She possessed massive storage capacity, and no fourth-level equation, no matter how complex, was beyond her, but whether she was bright or merely well programmed is a moot point. Or at least it was in the beginning.


Rated X. Contains explicit sex of several kinds. Not recommended for younger audiences.


Referenced Books:
A Small and Remarkable Life (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0889953368/escapepod-20) by Nick DiChario
Magic Feathers: The Mike and Nick Show (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0965956938/escapepod-20) by Nick DiChario and Mike Resnick


(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif)
Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://escapepod.org/podpress_trac/web/245/0/EP126_FredAndWilma.mp3)
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Russell Nash on October 05, 2007, 12:18:00 PM
This just goes to show you that what's under the hood matters more than the sheet metal.

(pun intended, but not really good)
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: lhoward on October 05, 2007, 12:22:52 PM
Five minutes into this story it wasn't really doing anything for me, but I kept listening and by the end it had drawn me in.  The story grew in ways I could not imagine going into it.  I never thought that by the end I would be lamenting the damage to a wonderful relationship between a man and a robot.  I hope they find a way to work it out.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: ajames on October 05, 2007, 12:49:25 PM
By the end I was struck with the very strong resemblance to "Travels with Cats".  Loner learns to love and live life through impossible or unthinkable relationship, loses relationship and finally takes a chance and throws the old, safe life away searching for his lost love.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: raygunray on October 05, 2007, 01:44:32 PM
Great quote from R.U.R by Karel Capek. I acted in a stage production of the play while living in Prague during the early 1990's.  I played Marious, the servant robot turned assassin. 

The play was pretty terrible despite the cutting-edge ideas forwarded in it.  Plays before the Method were highly melodramatic and impressionistic, which meant there were many gushing soliloquies.  Had a lot of fun doing it.

The play is best know for coining the word Robot which is derivative from the Czech word Robota - to labor.  That's about all the Czech I learned other than "yednout Pivo, Prosim" (another beer, please).
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Hatton on October 05, 2007, 03:06:42 PM
This is only the second EP episode that I've purposefully stopped listening to.  The other was Ep 113 Ishmael in Love.

I don't know why but animal/non-humanoid alien/robotic love with a human turns me off... with the exception of Juxtaposition by Piers Anthony, which I haven't read since I was 14 and sex was an unknown.  Now my brain starts working on the logistics of the relationship all the way from the emotional to the cultural to the physical.

The one thing that I wonder about - if Wilma's voice was upgraded, why didn't it change for the sobbing message at the end?

EDIT: I stopped the player initially when the redhead office-whore was recognized by name at the hotel but then decided to listen to the rest of the story.  Hence the reason for the wonder.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: BigDrahma on October 05, 2007, 06:26:57 PM
It's just like Travels With My Cats, but this one's actually sci-fi.

...too soon?  Okay, I kid, I kid.  ;D

No, seriously, don't ban me.  I'll add content!

I was hoping for a cameo from our favorite Escape Pod Announcer voice for Wilma, but Steve did a great job with the voice.  The entire reading was great, which made it easier for me to get into the story.  Hearing the Flintstones theme song makes me appreciate why Steve's boy screams at him when he sings.  ;D

Other than that, it was ... good.  Kind of samey, after hearing more than a couple Mike Resnick stories.  His influence on the plot feels obvious, even if he in fact may not have come up with that particular twist.  I think I'm kind of done with Resnick stories, to be honest.  It's no knock on their quality; all of them have been pretty top notch.  It's just the mechanics of the stories are starting to pop out a little more, and it's harder not to see the metal structure of the story when it appears that only the sheet draped over it has changed.

I had a similar reaction to Charles De Lint (please for the love of all that is holy get him on Podcastle).  I love his novels, and his short stories are great, when taken individually.  When I bought one of his short story collections, however, I began to see patterns.  When those patterns started to border on formulas, I put the book down, and I haven't picked it up since.  Which is too bad, because De Lint has some great strengths as an author, and he was a huge influence on my writing style early on.

So: good story, Resnick writes sci-fi, I get flogged for bringing up the "is it sci-fi" question.  But it was worth it, dang it! ;D
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: mike-resnick on October 06, 2007, 12:31:36 AM
Nick DiChario and I have written 11 collaborative stories, which were published as THE MIKE AND NICK SHOW back in 2000. For the other 10, he wrote the first draft, I wrote the final draft/polish. But for
this story...

I'd written the first 1000 words of "Fred and Wilma" back in the late 1980s, right up through the
description of Wilma. Then I had to set it aside for a bunch of better-paying novel deadlines, and
I never thought of it again until the mid-1990s, when Nick and I had already sold four or five stories.
I sent it to him to see if he wanted to collaborate, he sent back a finished draft a couple of days
later, I polished it, and we sent it to Science Fiction Age, which was the top-paying market at that
time. Scott Edelman sent it back, saying he'd take it if we took most of the sex out, and we did (which
is why Escape Pod's X rating surprised me. I mean, hell, it wasn't pornographic to begin with, and we
toned it down plenty.)

As for those who find traces of "Travels With My Cats", which I wrote a decade later, or
"my" approach...all I can say is that the first 1000 words were mine, but the plot and approach
thereafter were Nick's. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was Nick who submitted this one to Escape
Pod; I'd all but forgotten it.

On the other hand, it's a pleasant change not to have to explain that it really and truly -is-
science fiction. <g>

-- Mike
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: SFEley on October 06, 2007, 01:15:31 AM
Scott Edelman sent it back, saying he'd take it if we took most of the sex out, and we did (which
is why Escape Pod's X rating surprised me. I mean, hell, it wasn't pornographic to begin with, and we
toned it down plenty.)

I'm VERY conservative with the ratings.  Not in my own tastes, but in the story ratings.  Since we're not trying to restrict by age or put any "Click here if you're over 18" gateways over any content, the only thing I can do if somebody's mom complains is to say "Here, look, we did have a very clear warning."

And yes, Nick did send it to EP.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: ajames on October 06, 2007, 02:54:29 AM

As for those who find traces of "Travels With My Cats", which I wrote a decade later, or
"my" approach...all I can say is that the first 1000 words were mine, but the plot and approach
thereafter were Nick's. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was Nick who submitted this one to Escape
Pod; I'd all but forgotten it.

On the other hand, it's a pleasant change not to have to explain that it really and truly -is-
science fiction. <g>

-- Mike

That's very interesting, because it really wasn't until near the very end that I thought of "Travels with my Cats" at all, but then it was such a strong recollection.  I'll stand by the resemblance, but pass it off to coincidence or at least something other than similar themes by the same author.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Swamp on October 06, 2007, 03:17:50 AM
I'm VERY conservative with the ratings. 

And I for one am very grateful to you for that.  Not necesarily that I won't read a certain story because of a rating, but at least I know what to expect and not to have to listen part way into a story if I'm not in the mood for that kind of a story.  But what I appreciate more is that you give a reason: "Contains explicit sex" or "strong violence", etc.  That means a lot more than X, R, or G.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Czhorat on October 06, 2007, 05:53:28 AM
I kinda liked this one. I felt that explicitly stating that the sex between Fred and Mrs. Crummings was "mechanical" might have been a touch heavy-handed; we should have gotten that much from the actual descriptions of the act. I loved the descriptions of the initial sexual encounter between Fred and Wilma. I found the whole relationship between Fred and Wilma to be over-immersive to the point of unhealthiness, but that makes sense within the story. Neither of them had the experience to do much better. Part of me thinks that the story might have worked a little bit better for me if we'd seen some tension between Fred and Wilma before the big betrayal.

As far as the ratings are concerned, I, too, thought that the "X" was a bit much for this story. I'm wondering if it would be better to use the MPAA's less-loaded "NC-17". Downloading an "X" rated podcast makes me feel as if I'm going to be loading porn into my iPod.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Pink Shift on October 06, 2007, 04:39:06 PM
The idea of
 “You don’t know what you have until you lost it”
 resonated with me.
Been there, done it, got the tee shirt.

Men being dogs;
 not news.

Did anyone else wonder
 why humans had jobs at the law firm
 if  Wilma had the abilities
 to do Fred’s work for him?

And

Why did Wilma have to be a robot at all?
What greater value
 did a robot bring
 to the story that a
 human woman would not?

I’ll think about this one.
So far
 not high on my Escapepod list.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Roney on October 07, 2007, 09:35:31 AM
A sexbot story.  Ahh, that takes me back to the flash fiction contest...

Still, Wilma's story was quite interesting (much more so than Fred's) and there were a few chuckles along the way.  Despite the humorous tone it was successfully emotionally manipulative, which I thought was impressive.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Czhorat on October 07, 2007, 12:07:53 PM
Why did Wilma have to be a robot at all?
What greater value
 did a robot bring
 to the story that a
 human woman would not?

Wilma didn't have to be a robot, but for the story to work as written she had to be some kind of other with whom Fred couldn't have a "normal" relationship. If she were another woman he'd not have experienced the tension between the need to keep his lover secret and the obvious success and happiness he was having as a result of being with her.

I don't think it was onlty a story about not appreciating what one has until it it lost. There were serious levels of inequality and noncompatability in Fred and Wilma's relationship. It was interesting that it worked at all, but felt a bit doomed from the beginning. It was also interesting to see just how superficial Fred's change was and how it took some kind of real loss to make it into a "real" change.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: BigDrahma on October 07, 2007, 06:44:03 PM
As for those who find traces of "Travels With My Cats", which I wrote a decade later, or
"my" approach...all I can say is that the first 1000 words were mine, but the plot and approach
thereafter were Nick's.

My God, you ripped off Nick on Travels With My Cats!

 ;D  ;D JUST JOKING!  ;D  ;D

Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Listener on October 08, 2007, 01:09:09 PM
I don't know that I really liked this story.  I felt it was a tad formulaic.  Also, the "cleaning mech" thing seemed a little dropped in... like... the SF, outside of that, was almost too subtle.

Eh.  I don't know.  Not really a fan.  Possibly because I didn't feel any new ground was being covered.  Can't win 'em all, I guess.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Ocicat on October 08, 2007, 05:19:29 PM
It was fun, but not one of my favorites.  Once we got to "unemployed mars explorer robot working as hotel maid" my suspension of disbelief went right out the window.  So I sat down to enjoy it on it's own level, which I did - but it never really rose above the level of "fluff" for me.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Planish on October 08, 2007, 09:33:39 PM
It was fun, but not one of my favorites.  Once we got to "unemployed mars explorer robot working as hotel maid" my suspension of disbelief went right out the window.  So I sat down to enjoy it on it's own level, which I did - but it never really rose above the level of "fluff" for me.
That's pretty much what I thought, as soon as I read the title. Even so, it was pretty high-quality fluff, once you start picking it apart.

I rather liked the Hanna-Barbera crossover aspects, combining Flintstones (with Fred as the primitive male) and Jetsons (robot Wilma channeling Rosie the Robot Maid).
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Reggie on October 08, 2007, 09:43:23 PM
I was just going to comment about how there was a Flinstones/Jetsons crossover in this story, but when I clicked the reply link the warning popped up that someone else had posted while I was reading, so I hit refresh, and there you were, lol.

 ::)

Anyway, I liked this story, I don't have anything else really to add to what has already been said though.

But one thing I really did like was the way the introduction of the robot set up the time frame for the story.  It seemed present day, but then robots and Mars were mentioned, so that clearly puts us in the not very distant future....of course, Mr. Resnik points out above that he began the story in the 1980's, so really it could have been a few decades in the future making it set...well....right now.  But, my point is, I really like it when we can figure out the setting or other ambient factors on our own without needing everything spelled out for us.  I like the fun little details you get from stories when you pay attention. 
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Biscuit on October 09, 2007, 02:04:23 AM
I. loved. It.

The juxtaposition between the Robot with (possibly) no emotions teaching more about acceptance and love (and bettering ones self through that acceptance and love) than the emotive, manipulating whore was just divine.

The line where Fred realized his love for Wilma had come so "easy" and without thought was very touching.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: goatkeeper on October 09, 2007, 05:39:03 AM
Didn't do anything for me.  Although I could relate to the protagonist with my laziness - I'm too lazy to ever go into depth on why I feel the way I do.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Loz on October 09, 2007, 08:13:24 AM
Another vote in the 'meh' column I'm afraid. While I did smile a few times the essential story has been done so many times before that just dressing it up in skiffy clothes doesn't do anything for me.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: DKT on October 09, 2007, 03:30:54 PM
It took me a while to get into this one but by the end, I thought it had me.  Not weepy, like some of the other Resnick stories or anything (and not amusing to me as Franky the Spook) but still, it surprised me how emotional it all ended up being for me.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Chodon on October 09, 2007, 03:49:44 PM
This story struck a special chord with me.  I figure now is as good a time as any to come out with this, so here goes:

I'm in love with my toaster.  We've been secretly together for about a year now, but we always kept things secret.  My wife wouldn't understand, and the blender would be jealous of my love the toaster so we kept it between us.  I can't live like that anymore.  I am in love with my toaster and I don't care who knows about it!
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Russell Nash on October 09, 2007, 04:08:08 PM
I'm in love with my toaster.  We've been secretly together for about a year now, but we always kept things secret.  My wife wouldn't understand, and the blender would be jealous of my love the toaster so we kept it between us.  I can't live like that anymore.  I am in love with my toaster and I don't care who knows about it!

I know how you feel.  My bread machine and I have had a thing going for about a year and a half. 
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Listener on October 09, 2007, 04:16:30 PM
I'm in love with my toaster.  We've been secretly together for about a year now, but we always kept things secret.  My wife wouldn't understand, and the blender would be jealous of my love the toaster so we kept it between us.  I can't live like that anymore.  I am in love with my toaster and I don't care who knows about it!

I know how you feel.  My bread machine and I have had a thing going for about a year and a half. 

Does it make you rise?

(I'm sorry.)
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Chodon on October 09, 2007, 04:18:20 PM
I'm in love with my toaster.  We've been secretly together for about a year now, but we always kept things secret.  My wife wouldn't understand, and the blender would be jealous of my love the toaster so we kept it between us.  I can't live like that anymore.  I am in love with my toaster and I don't care who knows about it!

I know how you feel.  My bread machine and I have had a thing going for about a year and a half. 

Does it make you rise?

(I'm sorry.)

Oh God...what have I started?
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Russell Nash on October 09, 2007, 05:37:55 PM
I'm in love with my toaster.  We've been secretly together for about a year now, but we always kept things secret.  My wife wouldn't understand, and the blender would be jealous of my love the toaster so we kept it between us.  I can't live like that anymore.  I am in love with my toaster and I don't care who knows about it!

I know how you feel.  My bread machine and I have had a thing going for about a year and a half. 

Does it make you rise?

(I'm sorry.)

Oh God...what have I started?

When it's on the kneading cycle, it gets so excited.  It's really cute.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: contra on October 09, 2007, 08:55:44 PM
Now I'm one of those who gets emtionally moved by Resnick and other authors here...

This story did nothing to stir my emotions...  I have no idea why..

I liked it, and it has a satisfying ending.  The ideas introduced are interesting, the characters believable, the robot well done.  But something about it just seemed off the mark.  I can't put my finger on what...
but it was a classic story, with a sci fi topping.

I can't love every one I suppose.

It entertained me on my way to work on a damp Glasgow monday at 7am... and really thats all you want on that situation...
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Biscuit on October 09, 2007, 09:26:58 PM
I'm in love with my toaster.

Is that some sort of code, Doctor Baltar?
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Holden on October 10, 2007, 02:07:00 AM
Quote
Did anyone else wonder
 why humans had jobs at the law firm
 if  Wilma had the abilities
 to do Fred’s work for him?

Yes. Note that not only was Wilma able to Fred's job, but did it so well that Fred became a partner within a year.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Biscuit on October 10, 2007, 02:51:08 AM
Quote
Did anyone else wonder
 why humans had jobs at the law firm
 if  Wilma had the abilities
 to do Fred’s work for him?

Yes. Note that not only was Wilma able to Fred's job, but did it so well that Fred became a partner within a year.

Not explicitly said, but it implied human ego - they'd send a robot to do a dangerous/life threatening job (exploration of Mars) or low status job (cleaning a hotel), but a High Status job (hairy chest thumper law) would be out of bounds.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Russell Nash on October 10, 2007, 07:06:57 AM
Quote
Did anyone else wonder
 why humans had jobs at the law firm
 if  Wilma had the abilities
 to do Fred’s work for him?

Yes. Note that not only was Wilma able to Fred's job, but did it so well that Fred became a partner within a year.

Not explicitly said, but it implied human ego - they'd send a robot to do a dangerous/life threatening job (exploration of Mars) or low status job (cleaning a hotel), but a High Status job (hairy chest thumper law) would be out of bounds.

She was a robot that was specifically designed and engineered for a NASA mission, probably at the cost of millions.  She's a little out of the price range of normal folk or companies.  Fred makes a point of telling us how special she is.  She wasn't an off-the-shelf laptop.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Pink Shift on October 10, 2007, 01:57:14 PM
Quote
Did anyone else wonder
 why humans had jobs at the law firm
 if  Wilma had the abilities
 to do Fred’s work for him?

Yes. Note that not only was Wilma able to Fred's job, but did it so well that Fred became a partner within a year.

Not explicitly said, but it implied human ego - they'd send a robot to do a dangerous/life threatening job (exploration of Mars) or low status job (cleaning a hotel), but a High Status job (hairy chest thumper law) would be out of bounds.

She was a robot that was specifically designed and engineered for a NASA mission, probably at the cost of millions.  She's a little out of the price range of normal folk or companies.  Fred makes a point of telling us how special she is.  She wasn't an off-the-shelf laptop.

I think bring up another
 confusing aspect of the story.
If a hotel could hire a robot;
 why couldn't the law firm hire robots
 to do the legal work Fred was doing?
They must be
 inexpensive to hire
 if a hotel can do it.

And this
 still bothers me.
Why did Wilma
 have to be a robot at all?
What greater value
 did a robot bring
 to the story that a
 human woman would not?

These inconsistencies
 help to make it a
 weak story or
 a MEH.

If the robot was
 changed to Valerie Bertnelli
 the story might have been
 picked up by Lifetime TV.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: gedion_ki on October 10, 2007, 02:45:21 PM
I'm in love with my toaster. 

Ok well since we are all coming clean, my coffee maker and I have been going on for years and my wife has no idea...

Eh the story had some good points, but not on my top 10 list. I did enjoy the "imposable relationship" situation, but I kinda knew where we were going with this by the half way point.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Russell Nash on October 10, 2007, 03:18:13 PM
Quote
Did anyone else wonder
 why humans had jobs at the law firm
 if  Wilma had the abilities
 to do Fred’s work for him?

Yes. Note that not only was Wilma able to Fred's job, but did it so well that Fred became a partner within a year.

Not explicitly said, but it implied human ego - they'd send a robot to do a dangerous/life threatening job (exploration of Mars) or low status job (cleaning a hotel), but a High Status job (hairy chest thumper law) would be out of bounds.

She was a robot that was specifically designed and engineered for a NASA mission, probably at the cost of millions.  She's a little out of the price range of normal folk or companies.  Fred makes a point of telling us how special she is.  She wasn't an off-the-shelf laptop.
I think bring up another confusing aspect of the story.  If a hotel could hire a robot; why couldn't the law firm hire robots to do the legal work Fred was doing?  They must be inexpensive to hire if a hotel can do it.

My wife works in a law firm.  The non-partner lawyers make 80-250K a year.  Across the streat is a Hilton that pays the housekeeping staff about 22K a year.  Why didn't the managing partner go across the street and hire the maids from the hotel.  He would have saved about 3.5 million a year.  Maybe it has something to do with capability.  If you want more capability you have to pay for it.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Biscuit on October 10, 2007, 07:51:35 PM
I think bring up another
 confusing aspect of the story.
If a hotel could hire a robot;
 why couldn't the law firm hire robots
 to do the legal work Fred was doing?
They must be
 inexpensive to hire
 if a hotel can do it.

Cheaply made robots with "Level 1" intelligence. Wilma was an anomaly, having been made for NASA.

Quote
And this
 still bothers me.
Why did Wilma
 have to be a robot at all?
What greater value
 did a robot bring
 to the story that a
 human woman would not?

It was the absolute basis of the story - a robot taught Fred to love/become human in a way a human woman couldn't (the affair with Crummy was the juxtaposition of this).

Quote
If the robot was
 changed to Valerie Bertnelli
 the story might have been
 picked up by Lifetime TV.

That's the whole point - that's what made it Sci Fi. It would have just been a boring old love story if not for the robot.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Planish on October 11, 2007, 01:24:59 AM
And this
 still bothers me.
Why did Wilma
 have to be a robot at all?
What greater value
 did a robot bring
 to the story that a
 human woman would not?

It was the absolute basis of the story - a robot taught Fred to love/become human in a way a human woman couldn't (the affair with Crummy was the juxtaposition of this).
Especially so since Wilma wasn't even made to be an attractive android (or should that be "gynoid"?), judging by the reference to the "tin can" appearance of her head. She got by totally on talent and personality, not looks.
Fred was afraid of contact with real women, and Wilma was not likely to laugh at him.

Something I'm wondering about is the choice of names. I used to work at a radio station with an automation system that was nicknamed "Fred", being an old (WWII era?) acronym for "F***ing Ridiculous Electronic Device". Evidently this has been the nickname for many different kinds of high-tech equipment that have been introduced with little training for the technicians who had to deal with them. We had an auxiliary system that was named "Barney", which is no doubt a more recent usage. I've also heard of installations where the auxiliary equipment is called "Wilma".

Was that, if only partly, the inspiration for the Fred and Wilma names? (Besides the hilarity of a "Flinstones" convention, of course.)
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Pink Shift on October 11, 2007, 08:41:15 PM
Quote
If the robot was
 changed to Valerie Bertnelli
 the story might have been
 picked up by Lifetime TV.

That's the whole point - that's what made it Sci Fi. It would have just been a boring old love story if not for the robot.

OK
  I understand it now.

This should be a
 fun movie
 in the same vane.

http://www.larsandtherealgirl-themovie.com/
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: mt house on October 12, 2007, 04:52:19 AM
 "Fred", being an old (WWII era?) acronym for "F***ing Ridiculous Electronic Device".

OK, I now know what I'm naming my computer, scanner, printer, fax machine, answering machine, internal (broken) CD rom, external CD/DVD...maybe even my husband...
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: DDog on October 15, 2007, 04:37:38 PM
I almost busted out laughing in the library when Wilma spoke for the first time. That was a great stroke. (I do wonder why her voice wasn't more melodious in the final scene, unless she un-upgraded herself in response to Fred's betrayal.) I enjoyed this story, it was pretty good. I didn't expect Wilma to come in as a "cleaning mech," I thought this was going to turn out to be another gaming story where the guy falls in love with his computer. The "I'll briefly summarize for you" segments got to be annoying after a bit.

And who knew, e. e. cummings is best when recited by a robot. His work has never made so much sense.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Planish on October 17, 2007, 03:05:49 AM
I was hoping for a cameo from our favorite Escape Pod Announcer voice for Wilma, ...
Yeah, me too.  :(
Maybe it's a Union thing, an announcer doing a voice acting gig.  ;)

BTW Steve, does "our favorite Escape Pod Announcer voice" have a name?
She sounds a little bit like the Mac OS X voice named "Vicki".
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Russell Nash on October 17, 2007, 07:41:15 AM
I was hoping for a cameo from our favorite Escape Pod Announcer voice for Wilma, ...
Yeah, me too.  :(
Maybe it's a Union thing, an announcer doing a voice acting gig.  ;)

BTW Steve, does "our favorite Escape Pod Announcer voice" have a name?
She sounds a little bit like the Mac OS X voice named "Vicki".

Steve mentioned in an episode about a year ago that the voice is indeed "Vicki".
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: darth_schmoo on October 17, 2007, 11:10:37 PM
I didn't care much for this story.  The Hanna-Barbara tie-in only detracted from the story.  I would have been happier if the protagonists were renamed, and Fred was tricked into going to a Furry convention.

But my main complaint is Wilma.  She's a far less believable non-human companion than the dolphin Ishmael was.  With Ishmael, I fully bought the idea that the story was being narrated by a somewhat alien mind.  Wilma?  Not so much.  There were details that tried to make her sound alien (such as not experiencing the passage of time).  But I don't remember any explanation as to why she would be interested in sexual contact with a human, which seems like something that really ought to be explained.

At the end, I was on pins and needles, wondering how Wilma the A.I. would respond to a situation that a human woman would consider a betrayal of their romantic bond.  I thought it would be a bit pat if she just brushed it off with an, "Oh, I'm a robot, so I don't experience sexual jealousy."  But Wilma's actual response was exactly what you would expect from a human.  Her reaction wasn't alien enough to warrant belief.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: gedion_ki on October 18, 2007, 02:14:24 PM
Her reaction wasn't alien enough to warrant belief.
You know I think you just named what I found to be a bit bothersome about the story ending. I can accept a some what human like response, after all Wilma is a reflection of humans being programmed by them, but I would have like to see a response that was somewhat off from the usual human response. A stranger response might have resulted in Fred reacting in a somewhat different manner even.
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: DDog on October 18, 2007, 03:41:14 PM
Her reaction wasn't alien enough to warrant belief.
You know I think you just named what I found to be a bit bothersome about the story ending. I can accept a some what human like response, after all Wilma is a reflection of humans being programmed by them, but I would have like to see a response that was somewhat off from the usual human response. A stranger response might have resulted in Fred reacting in a somewhat different manner even.
That's a good point, but by that time Wilma's character has been mostly established as largely human as soon as she comes back to Fred's room to complain. It makes a contrast between Wilma who is a robot but quite "human" and Fred who is a human but has no idea how to function in human society (as well as Crummy who is explicitly described as "mechanical," and the rest of the law firm who place so much emphasis on superficial characteristics).
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: DynamiteDan on October 21, 2007, 10:52:12 PM
It wasn't without its faults... But i loved it! As Steve suggested, the sequel could be interesting!
Title: Re: EP126: The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma
Post by: Unblinking on September 29, 2010, 02:09:11 PM
I couldn't stand this one, mostly just because Fred was such a colossal jerk.  Wilma literally enhances his life in pretty much every way that he could hope for, and asks NOTHING of him in return (and he's content to give nothing in return).
-She does all of his work for him, and so well that he gets promoted, which he'd never been able to do on his own
-She cleans him up and helps him socially fit in, which he'd never been able to do on his own
-She has copious amounts of sex with him, which he'd never been able to do with anyone else

And then when, for the first time, a woman shows interest in him, he jumps in the sack with her immediately.  As-is, he'll likely lose his job (because he can't do it as well as Wilma could), will be lonely again (Crummy, the office prostitute, isn't exactly a long term relationship), and is no better equipped to live in the world than he was before (except perhaps, more stylish clothes).  Woohoo!  Victory against the oppressing slavedriver dillweeds of the world!  What?  I'm supposed to be sad at the end of their relationship?   ???  Why?   ???

The Flintstones references seemed like nothing more than a gimmick distraction, some brand naming to grab my attention but not really enhancing the story.