Escape Artists

Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Russell Nash on December 07, 2007, 09:19:06 AM

Title: EP135: Stu
Post by: Russell Nash on December 07, 2007, 09:19:06 AM
EP135: Stu (http://escapepod.org/2007/12/06/ep135-stu/)

By Bruce McAllister (http://www.mcallistercoaching.com/bio.html).
Read by Stephen Eley.
First appeared in The Girl Who Loved Animals and Other Stories (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1930846495/escapepod-20), from Golden Gryphon Press.

The first time I met Stu, I was just a kid and there weren’t any lights hovering over his house. The last time I saw him, when I was grown and we both knew what life could be if you let it, there were. That’s the best way to start, I guess.

That first time, our dad piled us into our old Chevy wagon–the kind you took to drive-in movies with sheets on the seats and your kids in pajamas–and drove us to the north county, saying only, “Stu is an inventor. He’ll never see any royalties from his inventions because the Navy owns them, but he’s an inventor, the kind that made America great.”

How had he first met Stu? How does anyone in the Navy get to know a wide-eyed, crazy-haired inventor who wasn’t at all “strack,” who shouldn’t have been anywhere near the military but somehow was? On a Secret Project, of course. My brother and I—who were 10 and 6 at the time–were sure of it. Our dad and Stu had to be working on a Secret Project together.


Rated G. Contains military bureaucracy, but nothing more disturbing.


(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif)
Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://cdn.libsyn.com/escapepod/EP135_Stu.mp3)
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Chodon on December 07, 2007, 12:59:49 PM
This story had some interesting themes.  The little guy versus big government, pressing on after multiple rejections, and sticking it to the man.  However, it didn't really strike a chord with me.  The characters were interesting and well developed and the point of the story was good, but it just was lacking.  When the story finally got interesting (Stu contacting the aliens), it ended.  I don't want to start a sci-fi or not debate.  This certainly was sci-fi by the broad definition Steve laid out a few episodes ago.  However, I like a little more science in my sci-fi.  I wanted to meet the little green men and figure out where they were from. 

Overall, a decent story that I didn't care for.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: ajames on December 07, 2007, 03:32:27 PM
It struck a chord with me.  Bravo, Mr. McAllister.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: eytanz on December 07, 2007, 06:23:47 PM
It didn't do much for me. I think not growing up in America is a big part of that - the story seems to play a lot of cultural notes that don't have much resonance to me.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: bolddeceiver on December 08, 2007, 03:04:53 AM
This is an example of a conversation-driven story done well.  The gadgets helped, but they were basically icing.  What really moved the piece was really great, well written dialogue.  One of the better portrayals of the dilemmas facing research scientists, espescially in the defense industry, and going past the usual line of "what if your technology is misused" (though that was touched on briefly).  Stu's justification of his work was beautifully poetic, if not unproblematic, and really made me think.

BTW, for those out there interested in well-produced literary audio about the issues facing science and scientists through the ages, I have another podcast to briefly recommend.  L.A. Theatre Works' "The Play's The Thing" is a great NPR program that produces great plays for the radio, and they recently got a grant to start a monthly series of plays about mathematics and science, called The Relativity Series.  Part of the grant paid to podcast these monthly plays (the show usually charges for the episodes after streaming them for a week).  The podcast url is here (http://www.npr.org/rss/podcast.php?id=510190).
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Czhorat on December 08, 2007, 08:39:20 PM
I kinda liked this one, didn't love it. The characters for the most part rang true. I found the idea of the government just telling Stu to shut up and not use his fancy new toys more realistic than having some kind of black-ops people disappear him. I suppose my problem with it - which Steve Eley might consider a plus - is that it was just too nice. Neither Stu nor his inventions got the attention they deserved, but he still felt good just having worked on them. The son fights the Vietnam draft, but this causes no emotional problems between him and his career-military father and friends. The central conflict between Stu and the Navy doesn't resonate emotionally for the reader becuase it doesn't seem to resonate with Stu himself. The author doesn't seem interested in exploring any cross-generational conflict or any conflict between Stu and the parents about how much to share with the children and at what age. The ideas, I agree, were nice, but the story felt just a bit flat to me.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: bolddeceiver on December 09, 2007, 12:30:33 AM
I don't know, I'd question the nice angle.  It's like that old question: If you could do great work, but then see it burnt in front of you each day, would that not be the most intense torment ever?  Even though he took it pretty much in stride, I saw Stu as a definite tragic figure.  I don't think "conflict" doesn't have to be so straightforward as tension between characters to make a viable story.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Darwinist on December 09, 2007, 03:59:24 AM
Neither Stu nor his inventions got the attention they deserved, but he still felt good just having worked on them. The son fights the Vietnam draft, but this causes no emotional problems between him and his career-military father and friends. The central conflict between Stu and the Navy doesn't resonate emotionally for the reader becuase it doesn't seem to resonate with Stu himself. The author doesn't seem interested in exploring any cross-generational conflict or any conflict between Stu and the parents about how much to share with the children and at what age. The ideas, I agree, were nice, but the story felt just a bit flat to me.

I agree that it would've been neat to explore some of these topics more but then maybe we would have more than a short story.   I liked the story a lot.  It kept my mind in another place, away from my sub-zero ride to work.  Can't beat that. 
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: qwints on December 09, 2007, 06:26:43 AM
I found the story pretty moving. The parallel between Stu being eaten up alive by cancer and having his career eaten up by the government while managing to keep smiling struck me as pretty powerful. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that the cheerful aspect of the story was only a pretense which made powerful Stu all the more a tragic figure by showing how he was forced to justify his impotence as an inventor.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Biscuit on December 09, 2007, 11:21:59 PM
A very sweet story. I enjoyed the concept of retro-engineered sci fi.

I don't think "conflict" doesn't have to be so straightforward as tension between characters to make a viable story.

Agreed. Some stories frustrate me with their adherence to drama stereo-types. Not every parent doesn't understand their kid's motivation. Not every kid disagrees with a parent. Relationships are far more complicated than that - the part where the narrator justified his dodging the draft alongisde  respecting his dad's career in the navy, so too the dad respecting the son's decision, was really nicely done.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: goatkeeper on December 10, 2007, 12:22:16 AM
This story reminded me of Edwin Armstrong, the RCA employee that invented FM radio in the 30's- because the technology threatened their AM radio empire, RCA battled Armstrong for nearly 10 years, leveraging the court system, declaring his patents invalid, etc.  The battle finally ended with a settlement so low it didn't even cover Armstrong's legal fees.  He stepped out of a 13th floor window shortly after.
From napster and p2p sharing to sonor-wires and alien-communication disks, it's interesting to think about the different ways governments and corporations respond to new technology.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Biscuit on December 10, 2007, 01:08:12 AM
From napster and p2p sharing to sonor-wires and alien-communication disks, it's interesting to think about the different ways governments and corporations respond to new technology.

Sustainable clean energy vs fossil fuels.

Whoops, thread de-railer!
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Russell Nash on December 10, 2007, 08:47:30 AM
From napster and p2p sharing to sonor-wires and alien-communication disks, it's interesting to think about the different ways governments and corporations respond to new technology.

Sustainable clean energy vs fossil fuels.

Whoops, thread de-railer!

If it takes off as a topic we'll split it off.  (I write this from a region where over 25% of electricity is wind generated)
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Czhorat on December 10, 2007, 11:19:26 AM
A very sweet story. I enjoyed the concept of retro-engineered sci fi.

I don't think "conflict" doesn't have to be so straightforward as tension between characters to make a viable story.

Agreed. Some stories frustrate me with their adherence to drama stereo-types. Not every parent doesn't understand their kid's motivation. Not every kid disagrees with a parent. Relationships are far more complicated than that - the part where the narrator justified his dodging the draft alongisde  respecting his dad's career in the navy, so too the dad respecting the son's decision, was really nicely done.

That's a fair point. My point is that if everyone deals with their conflicts in a mature and reasoned manner you often end up with a dull story. Tolstoy said that all happy families are the same, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its one unique way. I'm not sure that I agree with this, but I would have found the story more interesting if we met any two characters who's motives digressed enough so that they didn't get along.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: TechNoir on December 10, 2007, 01:12:43 PM
My comment is simple. This story reminded me of my time growing up in Oak Ridge and my grandfather and his friends. Grandpa was nothing like stu there and was perhaps the meanest man ever, but this story made me think of all the work he and others did for the government that they cant talk about even to their science enamored grandchildren.

Beyond that it was pleasant piece. I feel like maybe it was missing something but I cant say what. It worked for the most part and I enjoyed it.   
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Bunter on December 10, 2007, 10:12:22 PM
I think that the story was a perfect execution of the author's ideas for the story: I really liked the characterizations and the fact that there was not a lot of conflict...the absence of conflict made the story particularly believable since in the real world (tm), most people get along by avoiding conflict, even when they are not 100% happy with the compromises they have to accept.  (And I liked that both sides did have to accept compromises:  I think the navy was no happier with giving up their America-is-an-antenna plan than Stu was about having his inventions ignored.

Having said that, though, I didn't find the author's ideas for the story particularly engaging, notwithstanding his flawless presentation of his ideas.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Czhorat on December 11, 2007, 12:07:07 AM
I think that the story was a perfect execution of the author's ideas for the story: I really liked the characterizations and the fact that there was not a lot of conflict...the absence of conflict made the story particularly believable since in the real world (tm), most people get along by avoiding conflict, even when they are not 100% happy with the compromises they have to accept.

For me the relationship between the father and son didn't quite ring true. The father's answer (or was it Stu's? Either way my point stands) to the son's draft dodging is that he didn't know what he'd do in World War II if "all of his friends were trying to get out of it". This struck me as very dismissive of the son't anti-war viewpoint and of his free will and decision-making. It felt like it was setting up some kind of rift in understanding which the author just lost interest in exploring.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Biscuit on December 11, 2007, 12:47:06 AM
For me the relationship between the father and son didn't quite ring true. The father's answer (or was it Stu's? Either way my point stands) to the son's draft dodging is that he didn't know what he'd do in World War II if "all of his friends were trying to get out of it". This struck me as very dismissive of the son't anti-war viewpoint and of his free will and decision-making. It felt like it was setting up some kind of rift in understanding which the author just lost interest in exploring.

To me, it came across as empathy for his son's ideals. Remember the generation gap - before consientious dissension in the 60s, getting drafted was the "right" thing to do, whether you liked it or not. The father struck me as even a little envious of the freedoms his son had. The father staying in the navy all his career was a good parallel to the whole story - better the devil you know.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: 600south on December 11, 2007, 02:13:58 AM
i have to say i found this story kind of schmaltzy, and wondered if "Tuesdays with Stu" would have been a more appropriate title.

having said that, the themes of the story were genuine. and it did prick up my ears at the end when Stu started talking about the aliens.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: goatkeeper on December 11, 2007, 07:30:55 AM
"Tuesdays with Stu"

Thanks, I haven't chuckled out loud in awhile
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: gelee on December 11, 2007, 01:08:37 PM
The only other Bruce McAllister story I was familiar with before I heard this one was "Kin."  I really didn't like "Kin" and I wasn't expecting much from this.  I was pleasantly surprised at the story I heard.  Yes, I did notice that this was sort of "Family Appropriate" sci fi, but I don't think that's a detractor.
Regarding some complaints about the relationship between the narrator and his father:  There are as many types of father-son relationships under the sun as you can think of, and not all are filled with tension.  If this story had played up an idealogical conflict over the war between the martial father and the hippy son, everyone would be crucifying Bruce for using a cliche, or for making a bald political statement about the current war.  I have to give him credit for not taking the easy out.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: DKT on December 11, 2007, 04:57:08 PM
This story really surprised me.  It was pure nostalgia and heart and struck a chord with me.  What worked so well in this story wasn't the characterization so much as the relationship between the narrator and Stu.   

I was into this story waaaaaaaaaaay before the aliens.  I would've been really annoyed if we had seen little green men.  The weird lights over the porch when Stu died was enough for me.  This story wasn't about aliens; it was about being under-appreciated for the contributions you've made to the world but at the same time, being proud of the job you'd done and remembering to have fun while you're doing it.  It was a very sweet story and I thought McCallister did a great job executing it.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Listener on December 11, 2007, 09:39:02 PM
I liked it.  I especially liked how we can still have good SF even if the SF elements are minor, even until the very end.  It gives me hope for selling "Robot Overlords" at some point in the future.

At the beginning, I wondered where we were going.  But after the scene with Brian and Stu on the pier, I knew.  The ending was slightly weak, a watered-down lady-or-the-tiger, but I liked the story enough that it didn't matter.

Very believable story as well.

I think Steve's reading kind of slipped in and out of dialect in the beginning before finally finding a consistent voice for Brian.  The weakening of Stu was played well.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Mr. Tweedy on December 11, 2007, 10:09:08 PM
Wow.

The only word that pops into my head for that story is "beautiful."  Morally and philosophically profound while at the same fun and funny, just like it's main character, the endearingly wise inventor who you wish was your dad's friend.

Thanks to Bruce McAllister for writing this and to Steve for the (predictably) good reading.  I think I might have to pick up a copy of The Girl Who Loved Animals...
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: contra on December 12, 2007, 10:57:27 PM
We do seem to lose the wonder of the world sometimes.  and that much of science has its roots in doing something that is cool and simple.

Or to quote Asimov is a cliche way
Quote
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "Eureka!" but "That's funny..."

Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Chodon on December 14, 2007, 05:50:06 PM
Okay, after everyone's rave reviews I went back and tried this story again.  It still didn't click.  I guess I've never had a relationship with one of my parent's friends like this or something.  I just couldn't put myself in the shoes of any of the characters.  Maybe because I'm an engineer in a position like Stu I associated with him more than the main character?  I'm a tenacious as hell engineer in real life and I keep flapping my arms up and down and shouting until someone listens.  Most engineers I work with are that way.  Stu was content to be trampled on by the government, and smile the whole time.  I think that's what seemed unrealistic to me.  Or maybe I'm too dense to get the heavier themes.  I'm glad everyone else enjoyed this story so much, but it still just doesn't work for me.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: eytanz on December 15, 2007, 10:54:22 PM
I thought of this story when I read this: http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2007/12/who_speaks_for_earth.php?page=all&p=y
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: swdragoon on December 16, 2007, 01:21:23 AM
I liked this story it was remunicent of my military time . But if you think this is limited to the us gov you are sadly misinformed
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Planish on December 17, 2007, 05:59:30 AM
I enjoyed the story. My take on it is the notion of it being about "the journey, not the destination".

I was also reminded of Hedy Lamar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr)'s little-known contribution to technology.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Hedy_Lamarr_in_Dishonored_Lady_5.jpg/250px-Hedy_Lamarr_in_Dishonored_Lady_5.jpg)

Quote from: wikipedia
In Hollywood, she was usually cast as glamorous and seductive. Her many films include Algiers (1938), White Cargo (1942), and Tortilla Flat (1942), based on the novel by John Steinbeck. In 1941 she was cast alongside two other Hollywood beauties, Lana Turner and Judy Garland in the musical extravaganza Ziegfeld Girl. As she or her agent also declined some roles, it is said that Ingrid Bergman was often cast instead of her.

Her biggest success came as Delilah in Cecil B. DeMille's Samson and Delilah, the highest-grossing film of 1949, with Victor Mature as the Biblical strongman.

[snip]

Avantgarde-composer George Antheil, a son of German immigrants and neighbor of Lamarr, had experimented with automated control of instruments. Together, they submitted the idea of a Secret Communication System in June 1941. On 11 August 1942 U.S. Patent 2,292,387  was granted to Antheil and Hedy Kiesler Markey [her birth name]. This early version of frequency hopping used a piano roll to change between 88 frequencies and was intended to make radio-guided torpedoes harder for enemies to detect or jam.

The idea was impractical and ahead of its time and mechanical technology. It was not implemented in the USA until 1962, when it was used by U.S. military ships during a blockade of Cuba,[3] after the patent had expired. Neither Lamarr nor Antheil (who died in 1959) made any money from the patent. Perhaps due to this lag in development, the patent was little-known until 1997, when the Electronic Frontier Foundation gave Lamarr an award for this contribution.[1]

Lamarr's and Antheil's frequency-hopping idea serves as a basis for modern spread-spectrum communication technology used in devices ranging from cordless telephones to WiFi Internet connections, namely CDMA.[4] Similar patents had been granted to others earlier, like in Germany in 1935 to Telefunken engineers Paul Kotowski and Kurt Dannehl who also received U.S. Patent 2,158,662  and U.S. Patent 2,211,132  in 1939 and 1940.

Lamarr wanted to join the National Inventors Council but she was told that she could better help the war effort by using her celebrity status to sell War Bonds. She once raised $7,000,000 at just one event.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: wakela on December 19, 2007, 11:31:44 PM
This was a very pleasant story.  I enjoyed the kid's relationship with his father.  If he and his father had just not seen eye to eye over the backdrop of the Vietnam War and 60's counter culture I might have strangled myself with my headphone chord. 

I enjoyed listening to this story very much, but I have to say that I can't have complete sympathy for Stu.  He's the one who decided to work for the Navy.  He knew the Navy would own his inventions.  The Navy's job is to protect the country, and it's completely understandable that they would rather listen for Soviet submarines than look for space aliens.  Even if they knew the aliens were real, it is in the Navy's interest to keep the Earth hidden from them.   Look at what's happened in Earth history when a more technologically advanced civilization meets a less advanced one.  Stu would have had a bigger beef if he worked for academia.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Listener on December 20, 2007, 06:22:52 PM
I enjoyed listening to this story very much, but I have to say that I can't have complete sympathy for Stu.  He's the one who decided to work for the Navy.  He knew the Navy would own his inventions.  The Navy's job is to protect the country, and it's completely understandable that they would rather listen for Soviet submarines than look for space aliens.  Even if they knew the aliens were real, it is in the Navy's interest to keep the Earth hidden from them.   Look at what's happened in Earth history when a more technologically advanced civilization meets a less advanced one.  Stu would have had a bigger beef if he worked for academia.

Devil's Advocate:  working for the military, you get access to the best new toys faster than anyone else (hello appropriations budget) and you don't have to go looking for grants or anything.
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: lieffeil on June 16, 2008, 10:12:46 PM
This story got to me. I get the feeling like I'm sure I'll listen to it again at a later date, and it'll be just as good, if not better. Plus, it gave me one of my favorite quotes, to date:
"All an atom bomb is, Brian, is the heart of a star—the gorgeous, miraculous heart of a star—that we just happen to step a little too close to …"
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Bdoomed on June 17, 2008, 05:36:11 AM
I was also reminded of Hedy Lamar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Lamarr)'s little-known contribution to technology.
IIIIIIIIITS HEDLEY!!!!!! :P couldnt resist
Title: Re: EP135: Stu
Post by: Unblinking on March 11, 2010, 03:12:05 PM
I liked the themes, philosophy, and emotional core of the story.  But I thought it was rather long for its content.  I did like the ending with him leaving the Frisbee behind.