Escape Artists
Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Russell Nash on February 08, 2008, 02:09:02 PM
-
EP144: Friction (http://escapepod.org/2008/02/08/ep144-friction/)
By Will McIntosh (http://www.willmcintosh.com/).
Read by Stephen Eley
First appeared in Albedo One (http://www.albedo1.com/), #30.
Closing music: “Blue Genes” by George Hrab (http://www.geologicrecords.net/).
Gruen was on the sixty-first master, and while his wisdom had grown steadily, he had worn very little. He was incredibly well-preserved–the palms of his three-fingered hands still sported the deep, swirling ridges that had worn to nothing in most people before they’d lived thirty years. Indeed, all of the myriad folds and ridges in his thick maroon skin were for the most part intact. His eyes were still housed in tight sockets, surrounded by thickly-ridged cheeks. Besides the feet, the eyes were the greatest point of weakness for those who aspired to read the works of the masters. Ceaseless up-and-down eye movement caused the sockets to wear out, and eventually the reader’s eyes fell out. At that point they were forced to trace the carved words with their fingers. Friction quickly took its toll on the hands; readers rarely made it through one master’s teachings this way before their hands were ground to the wrist, and they were finished.
Rated PG.
Referenced Sites:
Nawashi (http://podiobooks.com/title/nawashi), a podcast novel by Graydancer (http://www.graydancer.com/)
(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif)
Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://media.libsyn.com/media/escapepod/EP144_Friction.mp3)
-
Wow, I really, really loved this one. Just wonderful world-building, and a beautiful, gentle story which has quite a lot to say.
I really loved the two alien races. And the ending was incredible.
Anyway, I always feel less comfortable heaping praise on a story than nitpicking, and I don't have a single nitpick this week, so I'll end here.
-
Four word summary: "Time wounds all heels"
Favorite EP so far!
-
This did have me wondering why these creatures are so very fragile. At first it had me wondering if this was some Cyberiada-type universe, populated by non-self-repairing robots. When it became clear this wasn't the case, or at least wasn't necessary, it has me wondering about the conditions that would lead to the evolution of a non-self-repairing complex creature, espescially a sentient one.
Very cool, all the same. It takes a real expertise to tell a completely alien story, without any human reference point -- I'm brought to mind of EP66, The King's Tail, except I think this story did it even better. It's easy enough (which is to say still very hard) to get an audience to sympathize with human problems, but to invent an entire new race of creatures and then give them problems that the reader has no experience of, except by metaphor (friction anxiety::mortality anxiety), and yet can be sympathetic to, is mastery.
-
It takes a real expertise to tell a completely alien story, without any human reference point...
Indeed. Well done. Not my absolute favorite (Burning Bush still has that honor) but certainly the best EP that didn't make me laugh.
I think I would have been in the right mindset from the start if it had been billed as a fantasy. Then I wouldn't be worrying (as some others have) about what kind of strange ecosystem could produce these creatures. Fantasy doesn't generally worry about such things.
Then, it's not really fantasy, either.
Not really speculative.
I don't care what genre it is, I like it.
It certainly makes me more optimistic about scholarship as a profession...
But it's important to note that the great wisdom that he found, did not come from the Wall.
-
Four word summary: "Time wounds all heels"
Favorite EP so far!
HA! I was going to say "Like sands through an hourglass, so are the Days of Our Lives..."
Oh, and this story should have been tagged NSFT. Not safe for treadmills. I could hear my knees grinding as I ran and listened. Then at the end as I'm grunting out the last half mile I get to listen to the song verse reminding me that even though I'm running, I'm still fat! (well, not fat, just working off that mid thirties beer gut heh)
-
good story. ep has been very consistent.
the short intro (intentional or not) did a good job to frame the story's minimalist theme.
-
Wow. This story has shot to the upper echelons of my EP favourites. The pacing of the story was great, and the author managed to get the 'show vs tell' thing just about perfect. We were told just what we needed to know, and the rest was left to our imaginations. There will be the standard questions about genre, but stories this good don't really need to fit into them. It had aliens, so it's sci-fi enough for me (and more importantly, Steve!)
Well done Will.
Also, Steve's reading was great, although I got the impression his voice struggled a bit. So if you've been unwell Steve, I hope you get better soon! Your reading is getting better with every episode I hear you read. Keep it up!
-
Western set upon his journey
pulling Evening through the sky.
Her dead eyes shone upon us
carving up the night.
I raised my hand and stroked your face
heedless of the pain.
The bit of life I lost in loving you
was in truth the life I gained.
***********************
Amazing story.
-
Yes! Simple, beautiful, engaging, and well crafted.
Another solid addition to my new favorite genre: "Stories Steve Likes"
More please.
-
Wow, I really, really loved this one. Just wonderful world-building, and a beautiful, gentle story which has quite a lot to say.
I really loved the two alien races. And the ending was incredible.
Anyway, I always feel less comfortable heaping praise on a story than nitpicking, and I don't have a single nitpick this week, so I'll end here.
Aha! At last I have the opportunity to hold a view that differs from eytanz'. I did like this story, and thought it had some lovely prose and captivating imagery, but it's nowhere near a love for me, and I doubt I'd ever listen to it again.
I had trouble (as others have described) coming up with the scenario in which these creatures could have evolved (especially what their evolutionary use for nerve endings and pain was). I also thought Gruen was particularly slow and stupid when he didn't figure out for decades wtf Western was talking about with the sand. It seemed so obvious and we're supposed to believe this guy is a deep thinker?
The scene at the black whirlpool was the bomb. In general, I loved the setting. Most of my nitpicks are character-based.
For example, while I agree with bolddeceiver about the perplexing nature of these creatures and how they might have come about, I disagree on how well the 'alienness' of the aliens was depicted. Everyone seemed quite human in their motivations, feelings and actions. Maybe there was some time dilation or compression involved, but all the impulses I took from the story were basic human ones which were easy to identify with. I like my aliens a little less anthropomorphized (or a bit more, with no pretense of really alienizing them).
I also wondered about bathroom breaks. Is that just me? There was so much description of the physical body and Gruen's eating/sleeping/movement process. I just wanted to know if he had an alien style colostomy bag or what. Maybe elimination wasn't poetic enough to be included in the story, though pre-chewed food isn't exactly lovely either.
-
A brilliantly profound episode, one of my favorite episodes ever. What is worth sacrificing in our pursuit of knowledge? What is a worthy reason to put aside our goals and help others?
One thing I kept noticing was the way the Wall was like a Trail. Both are records of the history of their respective races: both provide some sort of immortality.
All in all, a wonderfully crafted story.
-
I also wondered about bathroom breaks. Is that just me? There was so much description of the physical body and Gruen's eating/sleeping/movement process. I just wanted to know if he had an alien style colostomy bag or what. Maybe elimination wasn't poetic enough to be included in the story, though pre-chewed food isn't exactly lovely either.
The world was his litter box.
Thanks, I'll be here all week.
-
Excellent story. I was riveted from the beginning. Easily in my top 10 episodes.
-
Wow...just WOW. This was so amazingly similar to my other all time favorite escape pod story "Impossible Dreams", in that a myopic character who has lost his connection to his (larger) world has love thrust upon him and is thus reunited with the entire universe, truly seeing it for the first time.
"You got your Bohdidharma in my Leary"
"You got your Leary in my Bodhidharma"
"MMMMMM, two great tastes that taste great together!"
P.S.- this episode was so popular with my coworkers that I lost possession of my iPod for hours while they all took turns listening.
Excellent Selection
-
I had trouble (as others have described) coming up with the scenario in which these creatures could have evolved (especially what their evolutionary use for nerve endings and pain was). I also thought Gruen was particularly slow and stupid when he didn't figure out for decades wtf Western was talking about with the sand. It seemed so obvious and we're supposed to believe this guy is a deep thinker?
it is just a matter of focus, it does seem hard to believe at first but then when you realize that he was so totally focused on the wall that nothing else mattered. I mean the guy ( used loosely ) could not even be troubled to chew his own food... and so he was not really paying attention to someone that he thought was so far below him intellectually. ( profs will do this sometimes w/ students )
good story but not my favorite ( EP 100 was the best for me so far)
-
What a wonderful story. I was gripped from beginning to end. Although I take the point made about the gaps in the world building, for me this story wasn't about that. It was about conveying a mood, almost in the way some Eastern poetry does. It left me feeling very Zen, anyway. ;)
-
Fav EP so far...one of the best stories I've ever encountered.
-
Judging by the feedback so far, this is as close to a Universal W00t as one could get.
As far as the questions about Gruen's physiology, I had a couple of working theories that sustained my Suspension of Disbelief:
1) Gruen's race could be something aking to post-humans; consciousnesses contained within android bodies made up of highly dynamic populations of nanites. Thinking of our own cells, and how, after a while, they stop replacing themselves. I think those who felt Gruen and his folk were fragile were not taking into account the scale of time necessary to wear them out.
2) They were some kind of animate stone. Okay, hyper-hyper-animate stone. But if they leave behind sand... And at one point, I was thinking of the nerve endings as a kind of symbiotic vegetation; a stone body would need some kind of flexible connective tissue in order to move.
And I'm with Kurt Faler... after hearing this fine, fine tale, I was dismayed to hear my knees as I came up the stairs. Could all that dirt we keep cleaning away from the door actually be my own silt????
-
Not much to add. I loved this story.
As to the "fragility" of the creatures involved, I gathered that they could live more or less indefinately if they could reduce their "friction" sufficiently. From what I could tell, the narrator was at least a few centuries old by the end of the story.
-
I also wondered about bathroom breaks. Is that just me? There was so much description of the physical body and Gruen's eating/sleeping/movement process. I just wanted to know if he had an alien style colostomy bag or what. Maybe elimination wasn't poetic enough to be included in the story, though pre-chewed food isn't exactly lovely either.
The world was his litter box.
Thanks, I'll be here all week.
I would say that, because they're aliens, maybe they don't poop? Or maybe the pilgrims bring the perfect food -- a food that can be used to its fullest, without any waste products whatsoever.
They're aliens. Aliens don't necessarily poop like we do. Witness this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibbler_(Futurama)).
-
I liked the story quite a bit. Most of what I'd have wanted to say has already been said.
I very much enjoyed the creation of Gruen's people -- the contrast between the movers and the non-movers, et al. I think the fact that the author DIDN'T bury us under details of the alien race (either of them, really) is a great technique, and one I wish I could employ. I unfortunately often find myself getting bogged down in the small details when I try that.
Had it not been made explicit in the story, eating would've passed me right by as a cause for friction, and really, it shouldn't; I used to grind the hell out of my teeth.
Anyway. More like this.
-
Four word summary: "Time wounds all heels"
HA! I was going to say "Like sands through an hourglass, so are the Days of Our Lives..."
"All we are is dust in the Wind"
I didn't really like this one. The prose were decent and there wasn't anything about the writing I didn't like, but there were a couple things lacking. To start with there wasn't really any world building. It was more that the world didn't matter.
That's the other thing. The world didn't matter to this character. He ignored everything about life to gleen the true wisdom of life from these walls. I spent this whole story thinking about how he was wasting his time. In the end the only wisdom he got was from the time he wasn't reading from the walls. His higher wisom came from his time with a loweer creature.
I saw this more as a warning to people who try to learn from books without ever looking out thier windows.
It was an OK listen, but it's already erased and by the day after tomorrow I won't remember anything but the one idea of the story.
-
A la Tango Alpha Delta:
Could all that dirt we keep cleaning away from the door actually be my own silt?
Yes! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust
Also, I kept hoping the writings of the last master would include a description of how to build shoes or gloves: you'd think an aeon of recorded wisdom would yield some practical advice.
But then, perhaps these things exist in Gruen's world, but are deemed vulgar or inappropriate for a disciple of the Masters' teachings.
Great story. And I love how most E.P. discussions involve informal rankings of the stories, and comparisons between them (my fav: Craphound, for the record). It is a testament to the quality of SciFi selected each week. Keep up the excellent work, Steve.
-
A la Tango Alpha Delta: Could all that dirt we keep cleaning away from the door actually be my own silt?
Yes! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust
Holy crap, that wikipeida bit about dust was a good read, especially the domestic dust part. 70%-90% of the dust you see floating in your home are our and our domesitcated pets' skin flakes? Dust mites are on all surfaces, even riding through the air on these crazy skin flakes? And then after these damn dust mites eat their flying carpet skin flakes their crap turns in to dust? WTF? No wonder Michael Jackson always wears that damn mask.
-
This was a fascinating story, and I agree with every positive review on here so far. It actually made me a bit misty-eyed towards the end.
It is interesting how frequently scholars dismiss the simple wisdom that others can provide simply because their point of view is "uneducated". I liked that our main character wondered what it was like to see from all directions at once; perhaps he found an approximation when he finally saw Western's wisdom.
As for the non-repairing organic lifeform, perhaps that is the cost of their immortality... sort of a cross between an insect and a koi. They grow and shed until they reach adulthood, and from there on life is a battle with entropy.
-
Really good story
-
That's the other thing. The world didn't matter to this character. He ignored everything about life to gleen the true wisdom of life from these walls. I spent this whole story thinking about how he was wasting his time. In the end the only wisdom he got was from the time he wasn't reading from the walls. His higher wisom came from his time with a loweer creature.
I saw this more as a warning to people who try to learn from books without ever looking out thier windows.
Wasn't that really the point? After spending his life reading from the walls he becomes the one hundred and whatevereth master with a simple comment that the writings of the masters could be found on the wall, but the masters themselves could be met by looking toward the sunset. The author seems to be deliberately ambiguous here. The obvious reference is to the sand, which contains the sand of the masters (as well as the pleb). It could also be a veiled reference to those who have never presumed to even begin reading the wall---the movers, the pilgrims, or even Western's species. In other words, the wise person will not shut the world away, because wisdom will be found there too. You realised very early on something that Gruen was to literally spend his life learning.
I couldn't help wondering if the author was thinking of the book of Ecclesiastes:
For the fate of humans and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and humans have no advantage over the animals; for all is vanity. All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again. Who knows whether the human spirit goes upward and the spirit of animals goes downward to the earth? So I saw that there is nothing better than that all should enjoy their work, for that is their lot; who can bring them to see what will be after them? (3:19-22)
and
... and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the breath returns to God who gave it. Vanity of vanities, says the Teacher; all is vanity.
Besides being wise, the Teacher also taught the people knowledge, weighing and studying and arranging many proverbs. The Teacher sought to find pleasing words, and he wrote words of truth plainly. The sayings of the wise are like goads, and like nails firmly fixed are the collected sayings that are given by one shepherd. Of anything beyond these, my child, beware. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh. (12:7-12)
-
I would say that, because they're aliens, maybe they don't poop? Or maybe the pilgrims bring the perfect food -- a food that can be used to its fullest, without any waste products whatsoever.
They're aliens. Aliens don't necessarily poop like we do. Witness this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibbler_(Futurama)).
Equally important, an alien culture might not place the same significance or meaning on excretion; especially if microbial pathogenisis isn't as much of a problem for them, it's not hard to imagine a sentient race who defecates as nonchalantly as terrestrial horses.
-
I would say that, because they're aliens, maybe they don't poop? Or maybe the pilgrims bring the perfect food -- a food that can be used to its fullest, without any waste products whatsoever.
They're aliens. Aliens don't necessarily poop like we do. Witness this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibbler_(Futurama)).
Equally important, an alien culture might not place the same significance or meaning on excretion; especially if microbial pathogenisis isn't as much of a problem for them, it's not hard to imagine a sentient race who defecates as nonchalantly as terrestrial horses.
I believe there's a proverb somewhere about herding elephants with diarrhea...
I love that we've hijacked this perfectly respectable thread and taken it to poopsville.
-
I would say that, because they're aliens, maybe they don't poop? Or maybe the pilgrims bring the perfect food -- a food that can be used to its fullest, without any waste products whatsoever.
They're aliens. Aliens don't necessarily poop like we do. Witness this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibbler_(Futurama)).
Equally important, an alien culture might not place the same significance or meaning on excretion; especially if microbial pathogenisis isn't as much of a problem for them, it's not hard to imagine a sentient race who defecates as nonchalantly as terrestrial horses.
I believe there's a proverb somewhere about herding elephants with diarrhea...
I love that we've hijacked this perfectly respectable thread and taken it to poopsville.
Don't worry. If the poop takes off on it's own, I'll split it off.
Poop away!
-
I would say that, because they're aliens, maybe they don't poop? Or maybe the pilgrims bring the perfect food -- a food that can be used to its fullest, without any waste products whatsoever.
They're aliens. Aliens don't necessarily poop like we do. Witness this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibbler_(Futurama)).
Equally important, an alien culture might not place the same significance or meaning on excretion; especially if microbial pathogenisis isn't as much of a problem for them, it's not hard to imagine a sentient race who defecates as nonchalantly as terrestrial horses.
Uhm, no. I'm not buying that. A culture of aliens that has reading and writing and a social order almost exactly like ours but no significance to defecation or bodily waste of any type? Even horses don't sh*t where they eat, and they may defecate where they sleep but they don't sleep lying down. :P If nothing else, layering your filth in front of the wall you're trying to read blocks the writing. No, that doesn't work for me as an explanation, and there's nothing about it in text, you're extrapolating to cover for the author's gaps (which there's nothing wrong with, and in fact drives most of the discussion here, but also doesn't change my mind).
Are there no internal organs in these things? Are they not made up of cells?
It's not just that there was no poop, you see, despite the scatological implications of my colostomy bag crack. There was no snot, no mention of waste air exhaled (unless you count Gruen's constant sighs, but I figured those were meant to be emotive), no sweat, little blood, not even any tears (although maybe there was the mentioned of blurred eyes at one point?) Nothing. That's too much of a stretch for me though perhaps I'm too biologically unimaginative.
I could maybe buy that they don't poop at all...but I don't buy that they don't excrete anything at all. Gases leaving stomata all over the body, I'll buy. Waste expelled in a great gout of vomitus, I buy. Poop, I buy. Nothing ever discarded by the biological processes of a complicated enough to be sentient being? Not so much. There are some indicators that we're supposed to take these beings as automatons. Not biological. Under that circumstance I might buy the no poop, but I have other issues at that point, such as why these automatons are portrayed with human sentiments and animal motivations. Why they play, for example. Or dance. I didn't think there were enough of those non-biological markers to decide absolutely (because if I'm an automaton, why eat? frex) so either way I remain dissatisfied.
And the root of my dissatisfaction is that it seems dishonest of the author to give me this whole organism's raison d'etre of avoiding friction while playing fast and loose with the biology (or at least playing fast and loose with his explanation of the biology). Also, because it's interesting, and I want to know, and he didn't address what I wanted to know about his aliens, so I feel let down. As I said, if the crux of the story hadn't revolved around the creature's physical nature, I probably wouldn't have cared. I can think of very few Escape Pod stories where waste matter has been an explicit part of the story (ok, Acephalous Dreams has sh*t in it, IIRC, and in Jen Pelland's most recent story a guy gets so scared he messes himself, but still, those are exceptions!) and it's never bothered me in all those other stories. Just here. Because if you're going to do Natur und Geist (a theme which I love, btw), you have to be faithful about the Natur. Not just the pretty poetry sunset stuff.
-
I'm intrigued enough by Anarkey's questions to try to fill in... plus there's a karma imbalance in place for me; I make so many, many poop jokes that just this once I feel obligated to take it seriously. So...
I give you the humble earthworm. Granted, what goes in is pretty much soil, but the point is that what comes OUT is... soil. Maybe Gruen's people function somewhat in reverse; taking in an enriched substance, and leaving behind depleted dirt.
Since these alien critters are presumably made of stone (hence, their ground up bodies leaving behind sand) I'm going to do a bit of chemistry hand waving and say that whatever nutrition they require is chemically bonded in silicates, and that once they metabolize the nutrients, the resulting waste is either completely converted to energy, or leaves the stone body unobtrusively in the same granular form of sand that is naturally shedding from their worn-out bits, anyway.
We've already bought that the entire desert is made from the corpses of Gruen's people... is it that much of a stretch to assume it also holds their coprol remnants?
-
I tend to think the lynchpin of the story was meant to be the cultural differences between the two races, and the ensuing friendship and lessons learned, rather than an exploration of the main character's race in particular, and that's why further detail wasn't gone into regarding his functions and biology. It's really a philosophical piece, rather than something written to be hard, detailed sci fi (or however one might classify it). At least that's my perception.
I thought it was just great, personally. I particularly enjoyed the descriptions of Western's race's beliefs, and the concept of the Trail. That was fairly vivdly drawn out, I felt, and the concept really stuck with me. Don't we all kind of want to leave our own Trails in this world?
-
I think that getting stuck on a detail of alien biology is rather missing the point of the story. I honestly can't recall a single story I've ever read (or heard) that gave much attention to how the non-terrans in questions dealt with the issue of excrement. For that matter, most stories regarding plain old humans don't bother to mention potty breaks. It's understood that it's one of the many things going on in the background that the author doesn't feel is involved in the story. In this case, we are only allowed to see the creature eating to illustrate two points: philosopher types, such as Gruen, are highly valued by this society, and friction is such a big deal that these greatly valued philosophers are spared the trouble of even chewing their own food. Perhaps those same pilgrims carted away Gruen's sand poo? Who knows? Who cares? It simply does not matter in the context of the story.
-
I liked this story pretty well. However, I do agree with Anarkey. I kept wondering how Gruen was sitting on Western's back for all those years and wondering if that meant Gruen was crapping all over Western. It's not a big thing, but it did take me out of the story a bit.
-
I have to comment on this story. I hesitate to give it the designation of my "Best EscapePod Story Ever" becuse I enjoy so many types of stories. There's fun/adventurous, satire, idea-driven, character-driven, action-driven, whimsical, etc. Then there are stories that just make you sit back and think. This story was amzing that way!
It is enjoyable just on the face value of the events as they were told, but you can really draw a lot more out of it. It's very much like a parable, or an ink blot of literature. Different people draw different things from it. Some people draw out...well, poop...while others find other insights. ( :) no offense intended Anarkey. I respect your opinion and see where you're coming from. The poop discussion just makes me smile becuase only in a scifi forum would people have honest dicussions about that. "yeah, just how did the alien relieve itself and not lose half of its backside in the process" :))
Some insights have already been mentioned. Personally, I came away from the story with this thought: all the knowlege in the world does you very little good, or has little meaning, unless you step away and apply your knowlegde and abilities to help others. Kind of the "lose your life to find it" sort of thing. In writing this, I know I am stepping way beyond the reaches of the author's original intent, but hey that is what happens with these types of stories.
Other insights could be: circle of life stuff with the sand, the mutual benefit of interecting with differnt cultures, slowing down your lifestyle to view the world around you, importance of family history, whatever.
Good stuff.
-
I rather liked this one. The message was a bit simple, but very well delivered. To me it felt like a bit of a throwback to a time when SF stories were more idea-oriented than character-driven. I agree with gelee that asking questions about Gruen's bathroom habits misses the point; it reminds me a bit of the arguments about the orbital mechanics of the system in Asimov's "Nightfall". I saw the story as a parable about the nature of knowledge and experience, the conflict between theoretical study and exploration.
I personally see the point of Gruen's life the same way I look at a monastic hermit in this world. His contemplation sets an example for others to seek knowledge in manner that is, in this case, literally less consuming. His trail, if you will, lies in the example he sets for the pilgrims and seekers who are drawn to the wall to follow his progress and perhaps inspired to learn a bit of it for themselves.
The thing that took me out of the story a bit, and part of the reason I saw it as a bit of a throwback, is Western's characterization. He seemed to me to be a classic noble savage; less technically advanced but wise and selfless and almost holy. We needed him to act the way he did for the themes of the story, but having his goals be purely just and altruistic struck me as a touch simplistic and even demeaning.
-
I rather liked this one. The message was a bit simple, but very well delivered. To me it felt like a bit of a throwback to a time when SF stories were more idea-oriented than character-driven. I agree with gelee that asking questions about Gruen's bathroom habits misses the point; it reminds me a bit of the arguments about the orbital mechanics of the system in Asimov's "Nightfall". I saw the story as a parable about the nature of knowledge and experience, the conflict between theoretical study and exploration.
I personally see the point of Gruen's life the same way I look at a monastic hermit in this world. His contemplation sets an example for others to seek knowledge in manner that is, in this case, literally less consuming. His trail, if you will, lies in the example he sets for the pilgrims and seekers who are drawn to the wall to follow his progress and perhaps inspired to learn a bit of it for themselves.
The thing that took me out of the story a bit, and part of the reason I saw it as a bit of a throwback, is Western's characterization. He seemed to me to be a classic noble savage; less technically advanced but wise and selfless and almost holy. We needed him to act the way he did for the themes of the story, but having his goals be purely just and altruistic struck me as a touch simplistic and even demeaning.
I agree on every point, but I think we can forgive the "noble savage" characterization of Western. As Czhorat stated, this was more of a "big idea" story than a "character" story. In a more character driven story, this would really harm the piece, but I think the writer can get away with it in this case.
-
I think there may be a bit more complexity to this story than first meets the eye. Is Gruen a devoted knowledge seeker, ignorant of the world and the simple truths surrounding him, as some have suggested? If so, then why at the very beginning of the story are we told that he incurred friction daily to turn and watch the sun (this action was deemed "worth it" by Gruen)?
Czhorat's description of Gruen as a sort of monastic hermit has value, but perhaps diminishes to role of the pilgrims in Gruen's motivations too much. Is Gruen's desire to gain knowledge, or is it to be the first of his kind to read all the masters? How many times are we told that no one has accomplished this before? Gruen even tells Western that he is not interested in children -- any ordinary person can have those. No, Gruen is interested in a different kind of immortality. He does not seek enlightenment so much as he seeks accomplishment, and fame. And his fame depended upon his ability to endure in the task before him, not to learn. If he was really seeking wisdom, he would have skipped the writings of the 110th master soon after starting to read them, but he felt compelled to skim the remaining words under the watchful eyes of the pilgrims.
Whatever one makes of Gruen's encounter with Western, and there is plenty that could be made of it, this adventure gives the story its depth and poignancy. I was moved by Gruen's simple stroke of the dying zither. It wasn't said that this movement incurred friction, but it was understood. But this, like turning to watch the sunset, was worth it. That was the heart of the story.
Kudos to the author - he has a place among the masters., and I will be looking for more of his works.
-
...Personally, I came away from the story with this thought: all the knowlege in the world does you very little good, or has little meaning, unless you step away and apply your knowlegde and abilities to help others. Kind of the "lose your life to find it" sort of thing. In writing this, I know I am stepping way beyond the reaches of the author's original intent, but hey that is what happens with these types of stories.
Actually, I think you pretty much nailed the author's intent right there. That's exactly what I took away from it.
As for the poop discussion, well... maybe I can blame the kids, but I am the guy that wrote this piece of...art (http://cornerstall.blogspot.com/2004/08/wipe-stuff.html).
-
Four word summary: "Time wounds all heels"
Favorite EP so far!
HA! I was going to say "Like sands through an hourglass, so are the Days of Our Lives..."
Oh, and this story should have been tagged NSFT. Not safe for treadmills. I could hear my knees grinding as I ran and listened. Then at the end as I'm grunting out the last half mile I get to listen to the song verse reminding me that even though I'm running, I'm still fat! (well, not fat, just working off that mid thirties beer gut heh)
Yeah, that four word summary is definitely the quote of the week.
Also, I was thinking kind of the same thing about old men's bones in grinding knee joints. I wonder if the author was writing this while in the waiting room for hip replacement surgery pouring over old magazines. "Each time I turn the page the cartilage in my shoulder wears down a little more..."
-
Decent story, but I thought the song really tied it up at the end.
More George Hrab!
-
This had to be one of my favorite EscapePod stories ever.
I'm currently a graduate student in Philosophy, and often I feel very much like the main character of this story. Set into some life consuming quest for knowledge that will probably kill me before I read everything I need to read and eat my life sunrise to sunset.
In a way, it felt very much like a Kyoto School Zen parable - the least expected and often most overlooked things teach us the most about the world and the nature of ourselves.
Or, to revert to LOLCAT: DO WANT MOAR LIEK.
-
And I'm with Kurt Faler... after hearing this fine, fine tale, I was dismayed to hear my knees as I came up the stairs. Could all that dirt we keep cleaning away from the door actually be my own silt????
Actually, it's literally true that a great deal of the visible dust in your house -- maybe even most -- is particulate skin and hair. So try not to think about that the next time you're in a sunbeam . . .
-
Does anyone else think this story should have been Escape Pod episode #138?
-
Why?
-
I loved this story. I don't actually have a list of "favorite EPs ever" but this would be on it if I did.
-
Does anyone else think this story should have been Escape Pod episode #138?
I almost looked to see what episode 138 actually was (and when), and then it hit me. Clever. Yeah, this would probably fit right in with the other masters, and much better than the 110th master.
-
Shoes. With Comfy insoles. Ooh. or maybe a hamster ball.
-
Latecomer here, so I don't have much to add. Liked the story very much.
-
Better late then never. This definetly goes in my undefined list of top 10 EP episodes. I think there are about 15 or so in my top 10.
-
Another late replier:
Very well written story - (about ideas - yea!)
-
I absolutely loved this story. My only nitpick would be the pacing felt a little slow, but I think that was kind of the point.
-
Was anyone else thinking of the end of 'So Long And Thanks For All The Fish' towards the end of this story?
I was half expecting Gruen to write something like "If you've made it this far, you've obviously not understood the entire thing. Go back and start again!".
I always like sci-fi stories with near infinite Artifacts in them, Iain M. Banks 'The Bridge' springs to mind. Like some others, I would have liked a little more detail about Gruen's race and why there was this concern with 'friction', but otherwise, very nicely done.
-
Anyone else think it is a bit odd that most of the discussion revolving around, perhaps one of the more poignant escape pod episodes, was about poop?
-
Anyone else think it is a bit odd that most of the discussion revolving around, perhaps one of the more poignant escape pod episodes, was about poop?
I wouldn't say "most" - it was 10 or so posts out of a thread that has over 50 posts right now. Which is why the poop discussion is still in this thread rather than being split to its own inglorious thread.
But no, I don't think it's odd. The alien's physical processes was a big part of this story, and once the question of poop arose then the poignancy of the story could no longer protect the thread...
-
My favourite EP since Tk'Tk'Tk. Thanks!
-
The fragility of Gruen's people didn't bother me. The Economist recently ran an article http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10423439 (http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10423439)an article about how species subject to high levels of predation typically don't do a very good job with repairs -- that's believed to be one reason that they age faster. Small animals often have short lives not because of some sort of size-related metabolic rate, but because they're generally more likely to get eaten than large animals. If you're likely to become lunch before you get the payoff of longer reproductive life good repair work creates, your genes spread more widely if you put more effort into replicating copies than keeping the current copy in good condition.
So I just assumed that somewhere in the evolutionary backdrop of Gruen's people, they got munched on a lot.
However, I want to know if I was the only person who kept thinking this "world" was going to turn out to be a parking lot? When he kept talking about the "black undersand" and the "oily pool" in which the daughter's body was preserved, I was really convinced that Gruen was going to turn out to be an escaped toy from a post-armageddon Wal-Mart or something. I'm glad it didn't happen -- I think it was a much stronger story as written -- but I did go there for quite a while, and I was wondering if it was just me.
-
Windup: I didn't think of that, but I can see where that impression would come from. The wall of the Masters would be the curb around the parking lot.
-
Windup: I didn't think of that, but I can see where that impression would come from. The wall of the Masters would be the curb around the parking lot.
Yup, my thought exactly -- the wall would turn out to be the curb.
Like I said, though: A much better story for not having gone that route.
-
I was really worried that Gruen's final message was going to be "all we are is dust in the wind," and I considered swerving into oncoming traffic to keep myself from hearing it. Glad I didn't.
Nitpick: I can't believe that the they didn't already know what the sand was made of. Especially since the snailies did know, and the two races communicated enough that there wasn't much of a language barrier.
But this was a great story. Did I here Steve mention that he thought most of us wouldn't like it? Why?
-
Nitpick: I can't believe that the they didn't already know what the sand was made of. Especially since the snailies did know, and the two races communicated enough that there wasn't much of a language barrier.
I don't know, the main race seemed to disparage the snailies enough not to learn from them
-
Nitpick: I can't believe that the they didn't already know what the sand was made of. Especially since the snailies did know, and the two races communicated enough that there wasn't much of a language barrier.
I don't know, the main race seemed to disparage the snailies enough not to learn from them
Yeah, I thought of that, too. But I'm not sure if this is supported by the story or an assumption that when you have two races they must not like each other, one of them must feel superior, and the other must be more noble. The story may very well support it, I don't remember. Maybe the author wrote the story with this assumption in mind, so it ended up in the "penumbra" of the story without being explicitly stated. But I remember getting that vibe that the sandies and snailies didn't like each other, then I wondered why I was feeling that and couldn't come up with a good reason.
Plus they did have a common language that both of them "spoke" fluently.
-
Plus they did have a common language that both of them "spoke" fluently.
The story did imply that Guren could speak the language because he was a scholar. It's likely that most people of his race had no ability to use this language.
Remember, the two races communicate and move in very different speeds; Guren was chosen specifically because he was the slowest moving of his race, and it is clear he was also one of the most patient. And you must also account for the difference in perception - for the snails, it was probably incredibly obvious that the sand was made of the other people. They probably never realized the other people did not know. And Guren's race never knew there was anything worth investigating.
I think the situation is sort of like me and my next door neighbours - I don't dislike them, I just don't really know them. I see them occasionally if we happen to leave the house at the same time, but I don't say much beyond a polite hello, nor do they. I also know they are of East Asian extract, probably Korean or Chinese. I certainly wouldn't start a conversation with them in order to point out that they are Asian; I figure that they know it, and even if they somehow didn't, why should they hear it from me? And if they are not aware of this fact, I doubt they'll ever bother asking me what ethnicity they are.
This is not a matter of dislike or superiority - I feel neither towards them, and I doubt they feel either towards me. It's a matter of ambivalence. Just because I see someone on an occasional basis and I am perfectly capable of communicating with them doesn't mean I have any interest in doing so or vice versa.
-
I remember it being said in the story that the two species rarely communicated as each had nothing the other wanted. It wasn't so much a matter of not liking one another, as having nothing in common. Gruen 'spoke' the sign language fluently because he studied it at length from the writings of one of the masters, who had studied the zithers.
Of course, one could still ask how the master would not have learned that he and his people were made of sand if the zithers knew it and he studied them, and I think it is a great stretch to think that someone would be a fluent communicator in any sign language after just reading about it. But this story had so much to offer I didn't dwell on these points.
-
This one is definitely in my top 8.3% of Escape Pod stories. The story had a certain quiet elegance to it that I really enjoyed, and it gave me a lot of mental grist.
One thing I spent a lot of time thinking about was the use of all the knowledge Gruin was gaining. Not that I'm against abstract intellectual pursuits. But we tend to assume that such a life of disciplined, self-depriving scholarship would tend to ennoble the scholar. Yet Gruin had a very difficult time choosing to help another sentient being, and would only do it when he calculated that doing so would further his own aims.
I like that the author played the story out that way, rather than conforming to my lazy expectations. It was a better story for having raised the questions. But it seems like a full understanding of the Masters' teachings would have convinced him that the knowledge had to be applied to become truly meaningful.
Even towards the end, he still seemed to let the specifics of his goals undermine its higher aims. Otherwise he could have skipped the writings of Gassbaggus the Pontificatory (#110).
Again: Top 8.3%! Excellent story. I look forward with great anticipation towards the release of Friction 2: Grind With a Vengeance.
-
But it seems like a full understanding of the Masters' teachings would have convinced him that the knowledge had to be applied to become truly meaningful.
Hm. After my own dealings with the Academic world, I'd be inclined to believe the opposite; the more he delved into scholarship, the more he would feel it was valuable in its own right and more disdainful of anything else.
-
Nitpick: I can't believe that the they didn't already know what the sand was made of. Especially since the snailies did know, and the two races communicated enough that there wasn't much of a language barrier.
western did say something about not being able to catch up w/ any of the ones that were not reading the wall right?
-
But it seems like a full understanding of the Masters' teachings would have convinced him that the knowledge had to be applied to become truly meaningful.
Hm. After my own dealings with the Academic world, I'd be inclined to believe the opposite; the more he delved into scholarship, the more he would feel it was valuable in its own right and more disdainful of anything else.
Heh. I'm writing a story right now about, among other things, a professor, and I find myself remembering my own forays into academia. You are remarkably on point.
The difference, I think, is that Gruen was doing something with a specific purpose: read ALL the masters' teachings to have an epiphany and share it with the world. Many academics who have become stultified in their positions (did I use that word right?) are more interested in maintaining tenure and publishing their work than coming to the end of their line of research and starting something new.
(I was a researcher for a short time.)
-
But it seems like a full understanding of the Masters' teachings would have convinced him that the knowledge had to be applied to become truly meaningful.
Hm. After my own dealings with the Academic world, I'd be inclined to believe the opposite; the more he delved into scholarship, the more he would feel it was valuable in its own right and more disdainful of anything else.
Heh. I'm writing a story right now about, among other things, a professor, and I find myself remembering my own forays into academia. You are remarkably on point.
The difference, I think, is that Gruen was doing something with a specific purpose: read ALL the masters' teachings to have an epiphany and share it with the world. Many academics who have become stultified in their positions (did I use that word right?) are more interested in maintaining tenure and publishing their work than coming to the end of their line of research and starting something new.
See, I don't think you're right. I don't think Gruen started out planning to get an epiphany and share it with the world. I think he started out trying to read the masters aiming for a purely personal enlightenment and then ended up with an epiphany that he could share.
-
But it seems like a full understanding of the Masters' teachings would have convinced him that the knowledge had to be applied to become truly meaningful.
Hm. After my own dealings with the Academic world, I'd be inclined to believe the opposite; the more he delved into scholarship, the more he would feel it was valuable in its own right and more disdainful of anything else.
Heh. I'm writing a story right now about, among other things, a professor, and I find myself remembering my own forays into academia. You are remarkably on point.
The difference, I think, is that Gruen was doing something with a specific purpose: read ALL the masters' teachings to have an epiphany and share it with the world. Many academics who have become stultified in their positions (did I use that word right?) are more interested in maintaining tenure and publishing their work than coming to the end of their line of research and starting something new.
See, I don't think you're right. I don't think Gruen started out planning to get an epiphany and share it with the world. I think he started out trying to read the masters aiming for a purely personal enlightenment and then ended up with an epiphany that he could share.
I can see your viewpoint. It's been a few weeks; all this discussion might have changed what I originally thought. But from what I remember, I don't think it was necessarily for personal enlightenment that he planned to read all the teachings, it was to say "I read all the masters' teachings, what have you done with YOUR allottment of friction?" At least, in the beginning.
-
"Friction" reminded me of the experience of listening to podcasts. I have a lifetime of audio to get through. As I walked through a grocery store listening to "Friction", I was worried that someone would try to communicate with me as the slither tried to do with Gruen. Then I'd have to take my earphones off, put them back on, and go through the lengthy process of unlocking my audio player, rewinding, and using the hair-trigger touch sensitive interface without skipping to the start or end of the episode and losing my place. Thank the Masters for automated grocery checkout systems.
-
"Friction" reminded me of the experience of listening to podcasts. I have a lifetime of audio to get through. As I walked through a grocery store listening to "Friction", I was worried that someone would try to communicate with me as the slither tried to do with Gruen. Then I'd have to take my earphones off, put them back on, and go through the lengthy process of unlocking my audio player, rewinding, and using the hair-trigger touch sensitive interface without skipping to the start or end of the episode and losing my place. Thank the Masters for automated grocery checkout systems.
Ha, ha! Yes, you could certainly "wear your ears off" trying to communicate with others... time better spent absorbing the wisdom of the podMasters! :D
-
Great story overall. My wife and I really enjoyed it and found it very heart-warming. I deal day in and day out with teaching stubborn people that remind me of Gruen. Concentrating on a single task without ever wondering if there is a beter way or a more meaningful way. >:( Today I had to teach a 30 year old man to use the internet!
-
Great story overall. My wife and I really enjoyed it and found it very heart-warming. I deal day in and day out with teaching stubborn people that remind me of Gruen. Concentrating on a single task without ever wondering if there is a beter way or a more meaningful way. >:( Today I had to teach a 30 year old man to use the internet!
My deepest sympathies... I'm not a great teacher, but have been finding myself having to get some very new folks "up to speed" lately. I tell them what I think of as "the basics", and then they ask me something like, "What's an IP address?" Then I sigh, and dial it back a notch...
The worst was way back when I was still in the service and had to train my new supervisor (awkward enough situation) to use a SUN desktop. For some reason I couldn't fathom, she wouldn't minimize windows on her screen. To get to the desktop, she would move them off the screen... and the software we were using would then be stuck off where we couldn't reach it with the mouse, so we would have to reboot the machine to get the windows to reset where we could reach them (I know... I didn't design it). I found out later from someone else that after I left for the day (telling her once again "you need to make those into icons so you can find them again, instead of moving them offscreen") she confided that she didn't think I was a very good teacher because of all my "religious jokes".
Turns out she was a devout Catholic, and thought I was making some kind of crack about THOSE icons... once we told her to make them "little pictures" she got it. But part of me died of frustration that day....
-
great great story
-
Thanks, Tango Alpha Delta.
I too was in the service and had to deal with a similar circumstance. A Major kept changing the font the same color as the background in Excel. After 2 years of this and on my last day in the service I changed his spell check to replace common words with very colorful expletives! ;D Sometimes revenge can be very sweet indeed.
Now I live in southern Mississippi and I am amazed at the level of technological ignorance. :'(
-
I'm a little late to the party. I'm working on getting caught up with my EP listening.
As far as the pooping goes, the law of conservation of mass says that the mass eaten has to go somewhere. In humans there are three options: carbon dixoide (respiration); liquid excrement through sweat, moisture in breath, or urine; and solid excrement through poop. I suppose it's not unreasonable at all that their metaboilsm is different from ours and they could shed the mass in different ratios (even not pooping).
As far as the wear/friction goes, I pictured their bodies as being a sort of exoskeleton. Sort of the same material as horn. Horn still has some circulation and nerves in it. Maybe they evolved from insects? He made reference to his fleshy insides being eaten at the end of the story, so they aren't all hard outer shell.
I had to question how a slime trail would stick around in a desert of blowing sand. I would think the slime would either be covered up by fresh sand or blown away by the winds. Sort of strange to me.
Also, why don't they protect their most vulnerable areas with some sort of lubricated padding? I realize it would be tough to keep sand from getting in an oiled joint protecting their feet, but come on. If their life depended on it you would think they would find a way.
I also have the same question about their race being so dense about the red sand being pieces of themselves. It's not a huge leap. The only explanation I could come up with is that this is not a terribly advanced culture. I'm thinking maybe the days of the Roman republic. They're starting to ask some deep questions, but don't really have any answers yet.
Overall I thought the story was great. The questions are minor hiccups in an otherwise great story. I had a lot of empathy for both of the main characters. I felt a real emotional connection and it was well executed. One of my favorites.
-
I walked around hollow for a couple days after listening and couldn't put my finger on it. It struck a chord. Got me thinking about life and death. It is a perfect example of a designed life, a person with set goals that is focused. Every action Guren took or better yet did not take had to do with his sole goal. That three fingered dude was committed. The timing of the story condenses what life is and will be like for each of us. We live, we die and for most we will get a chance to contemplate our life and look back at it before we die if even for a split second. Will we be proud of what we look back on or will say "boy did I waste my time and energy on some real unimportant stuff". Guren was able to say at the end that he met his goal. And he seemed to be at peace with himself throughout. To say what is important about life is up to each of us as I have yet to see the answer sheet posted anywhere. If you can be committed and just before you tip over, you get the answer - that's pretty good as more than a few I suspect feel they did not live a full life and go out with questions.
I didn't get caught up on the details of the aliens or the world or where the poop went. They don't in other stories or movies so who cares. I assumed it was a metaphor for us anyway. Somebody mentioned that Guren took time out to help the other alien. No way. He did that for his own benefit which happened to benefit the other alien. That's free market. That's what makes the world go round. Now where did my slippers go? I'm not moving off of this cushioned chair without them...
-
I took this story as a critique of the difficulties of being an academic.
As I understand it, it's hard to justify to friends, relations, and strangers why you "still haven't graduated?"
The material sacrifices on has to make (signified by freedom of movement) in order to dedicate oneself to higher learning can be quite restrictive, and the higher you go the closer your focus must be to the task at hand. In the end the new Master finds that his dedication to higher learning has, in fact, yielded an amazing perspective on the world, though not directly from his studies.
-
I know I am REALLY late to add my praises, but I wanted to mention that this was the very first EP episode I listened to and I was hooked at once… a good start to an addiction I won’t have to go into rehab for, right?
It is one of those rare gems that left me with tears in my eyes but a smile on my face at the same time. One could almost say it felt as if the story held up a mirror showing you all that has gone wrong in your life, making you reassess your priorities and it certainly made me realize that I have to rethink my ‘work-life-balance’, that I have neglected personal relationships, etc. etc. …
And yes, an academic life means one has to make sacrifices, but (Dr) Faust(us) (- one of my favourite fantasy characters of all time -) did get all the wisdom he desired (and more) by selling his soul to Mephistopheles, but it did not really do him any good in the end. (depending on the version you choose ro read/watch). So sacrificing certain things to fulfil a purpose/ambition in life can be justified and result in a very satisfying life (see Gruen), but …
A great story, very sad and emotional and strangely uplifting at the same time.
-
I know I am REALLY late to add my praises, but I wanted to mention that this was the very first EP episode I listened to and I was hooked at once… a good start to an addiction I won’t have to go into rehab for, right?
Ha, ha! Don't rule out the rehab just yet... when you realize there are 143 episodes BEFORE that one, the addiction *really* sets in... and the dog starts to get used to walks that are timed to end with the Daikaiju outro. ;)
-
I know I am REALLY late to add my praises, but I wanted to mention that this was the very first EP episode I listened to and I was hooked at once… a good start to an addiction I won’t have to go into rehab for, right?
Ha, ha! Don't rule out the rehab just yet... when you realize there are 143 episodes BEFORE that one, the addiction *really* sets in... and the dog starts to get used to walks that are timed to end with the Daikaiju outro. ;)
Oh, don't I know it. I find myself walking faster or end up strolling depending on the length of the story and how it fits in with the time I need to get from one place to the other. Sad huh? So by that logic I get a better workout if the story is short and I don't want it to end before I get to work/home/x javascript:void(0);
So maybe we do need a self-help group "Escape Artists Addicts Anonymous" - EAAA?
-
I know I am REALLY late to add my praises, but I wanted to mention that this was the very first EP episode I listened to and I was hooked at once… a good start to an addiction I won’t have to go into rehab for, right?
Ha, ha! Don't rule out the rehab just yet... when you realize there are 143 episodes BEFORE that one, the addiction *really* sets in... and the dog starts to get used to walks that are timed to end with the Daikaiju outro. ;)
Oh, don't I know it. I find myself walking faster or end up strolling depending on the length of the story and how it fits in with the time I need to get from one place to the other. Sad huh? So by that logic I get a better workout if the story is short and I don't want it to end before I get to work/home/x javascript:void(0);
So maybe we do need a self-help group "Escape Artists Addicts Anonymous" - EAAA?
Maybe... after I lose a few more pounds... and get caught up on about 60 more episodes... then I'll gladly join Escape Artists' Addicts Aren't Actually Anonymous As An Avatar Ain't Actually Anonymizing Anyway (EAAAAAAAAAAAA)
-
Maybe... after I lose a few more pounds... and get caught up on about 60 more episodes... then I'll gladly join Escape Artists' Addicts Aren't Actually Anonymous As An Avatar Ain't Actually Anonymizing Anyway (EAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Maybe "Pseudonymous Escape Artist Rehab" (PEAR) might be better?
-
That just made me think of some kind of resort type group vacation. :D
Oh, how cool would that be, we would have discussion groups on various subjects, strategic planning for all kinds of emergency situations (an invasion of alien robotic life forms, spontaneous mutations in crustaceans, etc.)
Or we could have a workshop on creating geek costumes and one on designing perfect avatars or we could build robots, oh I am getting all excited here.
Not sure that would really be valid as a form of rehab, we would probably be locked up for suspicious group activities involving dangerous chemical substances or something.
Or discussions get so heated, that people end up hurting each other. We don't want that now, do we?
-
That just made me think of some kind of resort type group vacation. :D
Oh, how cool would that be, we would have discussion groups on various subjects, strategic planning for all kinds of emergency situations (an invasion of alien robotic life forms, spontaneous mutations in crustaceans, etc.)
Or we could have a workshop on creating geek costumes and one on designing perfect avatars or we could build robots, oh I am getting all excited here.
Not sure that would really be valid as a form of rehab, we would probably be locked up for suspicious group activities involving dangerous chemical substances or something.
Or discussions get so heated, that people end up hurting each other. We don't want that now, do we?
Hurting each other? We don't even get wound up enough for a good ol' fashioned flame war very often, let alone actual violence! (That's not a complaint; as one of the annoying people with all the stupid puns, I'm grateful to be in a such a tolerant, intelligent, and well-mannered group of people. ;D )
-
I thought that this story was quite prolific. I've always been interested in life-spans, and it seems to me that generally they're tied to reproduction rates. Specifically, the rate of reproduction is inversely proportional to the lifespan.
In this case we have a race that seems to live forever, or at least until their bodies wear out... and thus they are so careful to limit the "friction". But obviously they did reproduce. Given the link with their native soil (or sand), maybe they are Phoenix.
Quite a deep and spiritual story, one of my favorite so far.
-
O.D. makes an interesting observation... and since we covered all the other bodily functions, I'm surprised no one else mentioned the friction necessary to reproduction. (Not really trying to be naughty, but it begs the inevitable images....)
-
Awesome story. Just enough of the people are described to allow humans to empathize - and just enough information is withheld to allow my imagination to kick in and fill in the details.
-
O.D. makes an interesting observation... and since we covered all the other bodily functions, I'm surprised no one else mentioned the friction necessary to reproduction. (Not really trying to be naughty, but it begs the inevitable images....)
KY Jelly no doubt sells very well.
-
O.D. makes an interesting observation... and since we covered all the other bodily functions, I'm surprised no one else mentioned the friction necessary to reproduction. (Not really trying to be naughty, but it begs the inevitable images....)
I thought the encounter with the "movers", and also the fact that most of the pligrims feeding the scholars seemed content to move around, showed that it's not everyone in the race that is so concerned about friction. I'm assuming the scholars are celibate but, just like celibate priests/monks in our world, their parents were not.
-
O.D. makes an interesting observation... and since we covered all the other bodily functions, I'm surprised no one else mentioned the friction necessary to reproduction. (Not really trying to be naughty, but it begs the inevitable images....)
KY Jelly no doubt sells very well.
Or WD-40...
-
I thought this was a beautiful story. The pace of the story was matched by the pace of the writing. I think that is part of its essence.
-
Wonderfully deceptively simple. Like a fable, but with a million different layers woven in.
My favorite so far.
-
A brilliant story, masterfully executed.
-
This was a great story.
I just started listening to Escape Pod and the only reason I came across this story from Febuary so soon is because the author, Will McIntosh, is a friend of my father, and my dad told me to see if he has a story on the site. Out of the ten or so Esacpe Pod episodes I've listened to so far this is far and away the best.
It has a tangible mystical quality. It reminds me of a Buhhdist sutra or a Sufi story.
The author's word usage was spot on; nothing akward or extra.
This story would also make a awesome animated short in the right persons hands.
Would love to see some more of Prof. McIntosh's work on Escape Pod.
~Robert
-
I think this is my favourite story so far - and very different to the only other McIntosh story I've read.
-
what is the thing called where they assign a numerical value to the various pros and cons of the situation and if it comes out to be positive or negative etc
-
what is the thing called where they assign a numerical value to the various pros and cons of the situation and if it comes out to be positive or negative etc
Cost/Benefit Analysis?
-
Came back and relistened to this classic.
Did any of the pilgrims read any of the wall besides Gruen's work?
I guess I'm the only one that almost saw the pair of them as an old married couple. I was amazed that nobody brought up Western's request that Gruen tip him on his side. The friction necessary for this action had to be immense.
I loved the point in the story when Gruen started looking at the works of the other masters with the eyes of a critic rather than the eyes of a supplicant.
-
amazing story. Friction and Tideline are the two episodes that I recommend to thinking people, and so far they all have become Escape Artists fans. I listened to this episode a couple of days after its release and I still think about the 'wall' and what we will, and should (or should not) give up for posterity.
-
Best Episode Ever.
-
If anyone is a member of Second Life, my Science Fiction Discussion group will be listening to this podcast at 2.00pm PST on Saturday 28 November. Just search for "Science Fiction Saturday" in Events.
-
I was amazed that nobody brought up Western's request that Gruen tip him on his side. The friction necessary for this action had to be immense.
I don't doubt that it cost him much friction, but was well worth it. Western had carried him for 40+ years before that. If Gruen hadn't tipped him than it seemed like Western would've taken much longer to died and gone through much pain, and Gruen was able to pay him that final kindness in return for his aid.
-
Wow! This has to be one of my favorite stories ever, let alone on this podcast. I love a good philosophical tale, and attaching a story that's entertaining in its own right in such a way that the message doesn't overshadow is a tough balancing act but when it's done well (as it is here) the results are just amazing.
Mostly the story made me sad. I work with a few people who concentrate on work to the exclusion of everything else. I can't help wondering what they will think of their life when they are lying on their deathbed. Will they be content with the life they'd lived? Don't get me wrong, I like my job. But there are other things in life. Even though Gruen had a super-long lifespan, he spent that life reliving the lives of others, and then he is too broken to live a life of his own.
I wonder if there's a visible shift in the scholars on the wall to understand their life-wasting ways. I mean, the first scholar didn't have to spend any time reading other people's ideas. He just had his own words transcribed and then he could go do whatever he wanted. But once you get up into the dozenth scholars, then it is a major feat just to make it through the rest of the works. Gruen only managed it because Western carried him for 40 years. Without that he wouldn't have had a chance. Which makes me think that the later scholars fall into one of two groups:
1. Those who skipped a bunch of the wall for brevity's sake.
2. Those who actually interacted with the outside world to gain the aid needed to reach the end.
Anyone who didn't do one of these two things was doomed to die partway through the teachings.
Did anyone else think that the way he recorded his message was rather cruel, whether he meant it to be or not? It seems that ordinary people don't read the wall, so his message wouldn't do much for them. Certainly there will be other scholars, but if they read the wall sequentially like he does, then they will get all the way to the end and THEN read his message that might mean "you can learn more by living life than by reading the wall." But imagine how infuriating it would be to get that message at that time!!! You've spent your life to learn these teachings and at the end the message is "You paid the ultimate price, and for it, you get nothing."
I like how the idea of a lifespan limited by time rather than motion was such a foreign idea. That those who live their lives in motion are wasting their potential, when those people might say the same thing of him, because he has never really lived.
Great story!
-
I forgot to add one thing:
Did anyone else find it strange that none of this race has ever discovered shoes? There are apparently other animals on this planet, and their food must come from somewhere. Imagine the longevity with a strip of leather or bark tied to the bottom of the feet could add!
And lubricant? We know that they're aware of the concept of lubricant because one of the masters had talked about harmonious thoughts being a lubricant for the mind. But they didn't seem to use any actual lubricant. It's not like it wasn't available--there was slug trails all over the desert. They could even have set up a symbiosis based on that. The rock-people would gain longevity through making their parts last longer. The slug-people would also gain longevity because the rock-people would spread their trail all over the place, and much more quickly than the slug-people could manage.
-
A) I think it might be argued that his adventure in helping Western took at least as much time off of his lifespan, what with the savage whirlpool and suchlike.
B) I think any sort of shoes would probably rub them away just as much as barefoot walking, just in different ways. They seem to be a very crumbly, chalk-like stone.
-
Named this story #8 on my Best Podcast Fiction of All Time List:
http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2014/07/the-best-podcast-fiction-of-all-time-the-complete-list/