Escape Artists
Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Russell Nash on April 18, 2008, 06:38:18 PM
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EP154: Union Dues - Freedom With a Small f (http://escapepod.org/2008/04/18/ep154-union-dues-freedom-with-a-small-f/)
By Jeffrey R. DeRego (http://jeffderego.blogspot.com/).
Read by Nuri (of CandyCorn Studios (http://candycornstudios.com/) and Artist Alley (http://www.candycornstudios.com/ArtistAlley/)).
Closing Music: “Juzt Mizunderztood” by Norm Sherman (http://www.normansherman.com/).
My head throbs. I think about the mess in the fridge, the heaps of crap in the flat while I force the clumps of wet clothes into the dryers.
As far as I know I am the only Union member who works outside the system, the only one tasked specifically with fighting crime, secretly, of course. Darksider put the program together with one of the Luminaries as a way to explore expanding our role in the maintenance of Normal society. He chose me specifically because I am the only super-agile who is also an orphan. Therefore, I won’t be tempted to throw my costume in a dumpster and make a break for mom and dad.
Communication with the Union ended seven months ago. Darksider was supposed to make sure that a stipend was deposited into a bank account under my phony name every month. But that stopped too. I don’t know why. I tried everything to make contact short of walking up to the Boston Pyramid and knocking. Not that it would have done any good since none of the regular Union knows I even exist.
Rated R. Contains sordid occupations, drug use, and violence. Welcome to the city.
Referenced Sites:
The Union Dues Series (http://escapepod.org/index.php?s=Union+Dues)
Tales of the Zombie War (http://www.talesofworldwarz.com/)
SciFiDig interview with Jeffrey DeRego (http://scifidig.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=273082)
The DrabbleCast (http://drabblecast.org/)
(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif)
Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://media.rawvoice.com/escapepod/media.libsyn.com/media/escapepod/EP154_FreedomWithASmallf.mp3)
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I've not listened to the story yet, but I just want to reference this post from the EP153 thread...
http://forum.escapeartists.info/index.php?topic=1501.msg24347#msg24347
I am apparently prescient.
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Jeffrey,
Do you want me to hate the Union? Because I do.
In the previous stories the Union has been an organization devoted to the preservation of liberty, justice and peace. Perfect? Hardly. Many of the Union's policies seem to be necessary evils, and some of its actions have been disastrous mistakes, but up to this point the mistakes have been honest and the intentions pure. The Union has struggled to do good in an evil world, and done a less-than-horrible job of it, all things considered.
But the Union here is completely different. There were two sets of villains in this story. The first were the various male slime inhabiting the city. They're scum, but they're just scum: The take what they want and don't mind using people as stairs on the way to it. The second, the Union, is far more sinister. The Union is deliberate and calculating in its evil, selecting a victim specifically for her vulnerability and deliberately subjecting her to isolation, privation, and horrific personal degradation. They take her freedom, her dignity, her identity and any happiness she might have had, and they do it for what is (at best) an experiment of dubious value. They do this without a hint of shame (to the contrary, they're please with themselves). They're going to keep on doing it. They will do it to others.
If this is how the Union operates, then we listeners are really going to have to tax our imaginations to think of anything worse than themselves for them to combat. Maybe that was the point. Maybe this is supposed to be a cautionary tale about what happens when people with good intentions become too zealous.
In any case, this fact remains: I hate the Union. Consequently, my interest in stories about the Union has decreased from "lots" to "none." Unless the next story is about the Union itself being either reformed or destroyed, I can't say I have any interest in hearing it.
P.S. This story totally bummed me out. Anything that can make me feel this crappy must be effective writing.
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Nice call by Listener!
After I listened to the last Union Dues story (All That We Leave Behind) I commented that these stories weren't my thing but that I had enjoyed that story. I feel the same way about this one - so maybe they are my thing. I really liked this story, it was dark and it held my attention the entire time. Nicely done.
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I gotta say that getting sent to the Village sounds better than the life she is currently living. At least there you get regular meals and you know that you are nobody's pawn.
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Jeffrey,
Do you want me to hate the Union? Because I do.
In the previous stories the Union has been an organization devoted to the preservation of liberty, justice and peace. Perfect? Hardly. Many of the Union's policies seem to be necessary evils, and some of its actions have been disastrous mistakes, but up to this point the mistakes have been honest and the intentions pure. The Union has struggled to do good in an evil world, and done a less-than-horrible job of it, all things considered.
<snip>
I'm on the opposite side, I never liked the Union as an organization, and I've never gotten the sense that we were supposed to. Individuals in the union yes, but it seems to me that this unionization of superheros has the main effect of stunting their abilities and morality. I've always triangulated this super-world as a X-Men world where the government (or the recent Civil War arc in DC) won and enslaved the mutants/heros. Also, this didn't seem an official Union action, it was just a few of the top guys experimenting without letting anyone know.
I really liked the story, it's a nice illustration of someone in the Union trying to do some good and being punished for it. I'm also feeling that a rebellion is being set up, if feels dystopian enough that there needs to be a righting of the world, but not so dystopian that I get the sense that the world can't right itself. Maybe the Team Shikaragaki arc will start dealing with that, since it seems like with more persistent characters you'd have a better chance at rebellion rather than the bunch of discrete slices of life we've been getting.
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i am a long time escape pod fan and in general i think ya'll do a FABULOUS job.
i dread union dues stories.
everytime one of them runs, i have to listen to the hype about how everyone loves them.
and i just want to cast my vote too. i hate them. if i weren't so desperate for a story to make my busywork go faster i would just skip them all together.
it has nothing to do with how well they are written, or that they are superhero stories or that they are depressing. it has everything to do that i learn nothing from them.
it has everything to do with the characters not really being likeable to me. it has everything to do with WHY they are depressing. these stories seem to be to be universally about people being horrible to other people who can't do anything about it. they have set up an organization that was once based on ideals, but has fallen to a place where it really doesn't even pretend to be doing any good anymore. i read/listen to stories in order to escape. and these stories are about exactly what i am trying to escape from. i can look around me any time and see miserable unlikable people being cruel and hypocritical to one another. why would i want to read a story about it unless it was going to teach me something. i loved the bright red star even though people did bad things to each other because it gave me a cool idea to think about, the characters were sympathetic, because there was some greater cause .... these stories bring a spot of dull, drab sorrow into my life without paying for it by offering me a cool idea to think about it, without introducing me to a compelling character and without pointing to any way out or higher cause to justify any of it... it isn't just that i hate the union. it's that none of the people in the union have anything to make them interesting. they are superheros who still manage to be failures because they fail to stand up to the system. they fail to save anyone who needs it, they get bogged down with beaurocracy or coked up on drugs...and that's just boring to me unless i can personally fix them. i know people love these stories although i can' t understand why, and i don't expect them to go away...but please don't assume those who rave about them speak for all of us.
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Jeffrey,
Do you want me to hate the Union? Because I do.
In the previous stories the Union has been an organization devoted to the preservation of liberty, justice and peace. Perfect? Hardly. Many of the Union's policies seem to be necessary evils, and some of its actions have been disastrous mistakes, but up to this point the mistakes have been honest and the intentions pure. The Union has struggled to do good in an evil world, and done a less-than-horrible job of it, all things considered.
<snip>
I'm on the opposite side, I never liked the Union as an organization, and I've never gotten the sense that we were supposed to. Individuals in the union yes, but it seems to me that this unionization of superheros has the main effect of stunting their abilities and morality. I've always triangulated this super-world as a X-Men world where the government (or the recent Civil War arc in DC) won and enslaved the mutants/heros. Also, this didn't seem an official Union action, it was just a few of the top guys experimenting without letting anyone know.
I really liked the story, it's a nice illustration of someone in the Union trying to do some good and being punished for it. I'm also feeling that a rebellion is being set up, if feels dystopian enough that there needs to be a righting of the world, but not so dystopian that I get the sense that the world can't right itself. Maybe the Team Shikaragaki arc will start dealing with that, since it seems like with more persistent characters you'd have a better chance at rebellion rather than the bunch of discrete slices of life we've been getting.
I'm glad you got the Team Shikaragaki tie in, or to use comic book terminology "EXCITING INTRODUCTION TO THE UNION'S EXCITING NEW HEROES!!!" :)
And yes, Crimson Nightshade was an experiment by Alex Nova and Darksider, no one else knows who Crimson Nightshade is or was, but you got a glimpse of her successors in the hospital. The Team Shikaragaki stories are much more in dealing with the personal problems of the team rather than the world as a whole. But that doesn't mean the Union isn't part of each story, there is an arc in them but you'll have to listen much more closely for it.
And for Mr. Tweedy and the others who hate the Union based on this story.... Haven't you listened to Off-White Lies? Alex Nova set up a whole bunch of Supers for execution in that one! As for standing for liberty, justice, and peace, nowhere in any of the stories has the Union stated that. They are a brand image, or as Megaton says in All That We Leave Behind, "We deal in disaster friend, and brand loyalty" or as Kinetic Girl says in The Baby and the Bathwater "The brochures don't show how we didn't put out the fire, and didn't rescue the family" or in Iron Bars and the Glass Jaw where Megaton can't say he's ever stopped a petty crime, because he hasn't...
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I never liked the Union, and I'm pretty sure we're not supposed to. What I did have was some respect. Yeah, it's heartless and controlling and does mean stuff sometimes, but it always seemed like it was really trying to do what was best for everyone. It controlled the super-powered because its founders honestly thought that was necessary to protect both them and the normals. It was trying to pull as much good as possible from a very dangerous and complicated situation, sometimes screwing up but generally achieving that goal. The Union was like an overbearing father who, despite his suffocating rules and lack of sensitivity, really does love his kids.
But it seems obvious now that the father really doesn't give a shit about his kids.
Down with the Union!
Okay, I basically said the same thing twice now. :P Signing out.
Added:
Haven't you listened to Off-White Lies? Alex Nova set up a whole bunch of Supers for execution in that one!
Oh? I didn't get that. I thought that those killings were a result of Ultra Magnus (right name?) snapping under stress and using more force than he was supposed to. I was referring to that incident as a "disastrous mistake." Listening to that story, it didn't occur to me that those supers were intended to be killed, just that things got way out of hand.
Geez... Well, you'd better give the Union its Dues in some future story, otherwise I think I'm going to end up agreeing with eclipse.
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I've not listened to the story yet, but I just want to reference this post from the EP153 thread...
http://forum.escapeartists.info/index.php?topic=1501.msg24347#msg24347
I am apparently prescient.
Heh. If it helps any, I had not read your comment when I scheduled this story.
As for lesser-known authors, I'm sympathetic to your viewpoint here. But we're about to go into our Hugo run, so it's going to be at least a few more weeks. (And you're guaranteed to get one more Resnick story in the next month, too. He was Hugo-nominated. My hands are tied.) >8->
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I'm ready now for the Union Dues story where the fecal matter strikes the air circulating device.
I don't need any more reason to want it. In fact, I'm more than ready; I need it. I need it like...
well...
Like a certain hyper-agile needs cocaine.
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Couldn't listen to this story all in one go. I was okay with the other Union Dues stories, but was never overly fond of them. I did not like this one at all. It was ... boring. The writing felt repetitive. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to keep telling the reader what EXACTLY the character is wearing. The story definitely had potential. Perhaps an editor could help out.
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I love the mythic scope of the superhero genre, and a really hate to criticize Union Dues because it's an ok premise and it does have my attention. BUT, if you take out the minor superpower scene, the Union Dues references and label you have a mediocre and cliched undercover cop story. This could have an episode of Alias.
I think Union Dues could use some super-villains. So far all we've gotten is day in the life type stories of Union members, and that was good for Golden-Silver Age type stories, but this is modern age comic style stories, which thrive on arcs. So I would like to see this come together somehow. I may not be seeing a larger picture yet, so I will reserve my final judgment on Union Dues as a whole until the stories end. I may not be seeing the forest from the trees.
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Couldn't listen to this story all in one go. I was okay with the other Union Dues stories, but was never overly fond of them. I did not like this one at all. It was ... boring. The writing felt repetitive. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to keep telling the reader what EXACTLY the character is wearing. The story definitely had potential. Perhaps an editor could help out.
I thought the constant references to what she was wearing worked for the story. She WAS a stripper, her job as such was to play into the virgin/whore fantasy. The stripper character also works as it illustrates her transformation of from virtue to vice on the mission, just like a real stripper goes from wearing a virtuous uniform at the beginning of her (or his) dance to sexual nudity. The author was right to go on about the clothing, stripping is as much about what is worn as it about what is not worn.
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Wow... this story sucked.
Just Kidding!
By far, above and beyond, your best story yet St. DeRego!
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ya this story pretty much sucked. I have only listened to a few of the UD stories but this does not make me want to put the time in for any more
But we're about to go into our Hugo run, so it's going to be at least a few more weeks.
SWEET!!!!!! The Hugo run always has a few good stories
the last 5 or so stories pretty much sucked... what is with all the social SF stories? what is this like 5 in the past few weeks?
Borderlands
behind the rules
The big guy ( sure robotic sports players but still more about the social ramifications than anything else)
Schwartz
Freedom
(this is probably a thread derailing argument about where the line is between social and "real" SF)
so ya all in all I will be looking forward to the Hugo stories for some non social SF)
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Let me add my voice to the "enough already with Union Dues stories" crowd? I know they have a large fanbase, so even though I don't really enjoy them (and the more I hear them, the less I enjoy them) I haven't been complaining, but that was when they were coming once every six months or so. Having two in six weeks is far too often.
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I have to admit, I'm really shocked by the negative response this story is getting.
i dread union dues stories.
...it has everything to do that i learn nothing from them.
In any case, this fact remains: I hate the Union. Consequently, my interest in stories about the Union has decreased from "lots" to "none."
I wonder if there's something going on stylistically and JR is being too subtle, or if it's a fault of the medium? In every story we learn quite a bit about the Union, but none of it is spoon fed to us and each story doesn't cover a single aspect of the Union's history, there are snippets and bits in each story that the audience has to put together. Why I say "fault of the medium" is that these stories might need more attention than is being given to them, they ask more from the listener than something as digestible as Conversations With and About My Electric Toothbrush. If you're listening to UD while trying to do something else, like work, you might be grazing over the frequent casual statements that have big implications.
I think Union Dues could use some super-villains.
Actually, I think The Union are the super-villains.
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I wonder if there's something going on stylistically and JR is being too subtle, or if it's a fault of the medium?
It's neither, at least as far as I am concerned.
I agree that every story we learn quite a bit about the union. But what we learn - at least in the four UD stories I've listened to, but by others reactions I believe this generalizes - is a message of hopelessness, despair, and general unpleasantness. Union Dues is basically 1984 with superheroes.
Now, there is a place and time for bleakness, and (as in the case of 1984) it can be great literature. But it's not enjoyable, in any sense of the word, at least not to me. EP's original mission statement included the word "fun". Now, there are quite a few stories that are dark, and maybe not as much fun as some other stories, but at least they are varied. UD serves the same serving of misery, over and over. Yeah, the details and circumstances are different. We learn more of the world. There's a mythos being built here, characters re-occur, and things happen. But there is no progress. No prospect of change, and, judging by jrderego's responses in this and other UD threads, no immediate intention for the tone to change in any way. Just the boot stepping over humanity and superhumanity's faces forever.
Count me out.
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I finally put my finger on what this last story reminds me of: John LeCarre's approach to spies in his novels. In both cases, we see a lot of the seamy underside of a supposedly glamorous profession, and the characters are often pawns in a larger institutional game.
By the way, did I miss something, or did we ever find our why the character's stipend was cut off? Was that part of the "experiment" (seeing if the "hothouse flowers" of the Union could survive unsupported on the outside?) or was it a random event?
Also, am I the only person slightly freaked out by the notion of a Super Hero with a drug habit? Regular people can be pretty dangerous when drunk or stoned -- imagine a super-strong as belligerent drunk. Perhaps a new offense: "Invoking super-powers while under the influence."
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I do usually enjoy the UD series, but this was my least favourite so far. I did like the idea of a group within the Union with even worse motive than brand loyalty. But I did not appreciate at all that the main character is an orphan who is abandoned by the Union and becomes a stripper/superhero and does drugs as a sort of sleeper agent so save a baby. Nor did I think the idea of labour negotiations including kidnapping an infant was anything but over-the-top.
That being said, I'll still look forward to the next one.
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I don't see myself as being in either the "over-the-top love them" camp or the "hate them" camp, but I do appreciate the Union Dues stories. If they ever make an Astro City TV series, I think Jeff ought to be on the writing staff.
It seems odd to me to hear people just now figuring out that a) the Union is *supposed* to be seen as a deeply flawed, possibly evil organization, and that b) there is a deeper, more evil force within it, working toward some kind of nefarious goal. From the start, the stories have clearly been outlining this larger structure, and Jeff even outlined it in another thread (http://forum.escapeartists.info/index.php?topic=654.msg6897#msg6897), which you super-fans ought to have found on your own, already.
By the way, did I miss something, or did we ever find our why the character's stipend was cut off? Was that part of the "experiment" (seeing if the "hothouse flowers" of the Union could survive unsupported on the outside?) or was it a random event?
This puzzled me, too... I was changing freeways when Crimson was in the limo with Nova, and I'd like to know if anyone caught a line I missed at that point in the story that would shed some light. (It also seems I've missed one or two of the older stories somehow...must investigate.)
Also, am I the only person slightly freaked out by the notion of a Super Hero with a drug habit? Regular people can be pretty dangerous when drunk or stoned -- imagine a super-strong as belligerent drunk. Perhaps a new offense: "Invoking super-powers while under the influence."
There were two guys in the bar of a restaurant on the top floor of a Chicago skyscraper, having drinks and B.S.ing each other. The one guy was saying that the winds coming off the lake created an updraft so strong that if someone were to jump off the balcony, the updraft would just bring him right back up. The second guy said the first was full of crap (and booze), so the braggart stomped over to the balcony, and threw himself off!
And, what do you know, he fell about 10 stories before floating right back up! He grabbed the rail, and swung back onto solid ground, and gave his companion a smug look. The second guy was so impressed, he just had to try it himself, and leapt over... only to plunge to his death.
As he strolled back out past the bar, the barman said to him, "You're the meanest drunk ever, Superman."
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Also, am I the only person slightly freaked out by the notion of a Super Hero with a drug habit? Regular people can be pretty dangerous when drunk or stoned -- imagine a super-strong as belligerent drunk. Perhaps a new offense: "Invoking super-powers while under the influence."
'Hero with a habit' goes back to the early 70s with Green Arrow's sidekick Speedy portrayed as a junkie. (Green Lantern #85-86 Sept/Nov 71)There was a Spider-man story that dealt with drugs, but it was a supporting cast member. (Amazing Spider-man #96-97 May/Jun 71)
This doesn't take into account previous substance users such as Hourman, whose use of the drug Miraclo was not shown as debilitating or addicting until late into the bronze/modern age.
Edit: I've forgotten, Iron Man has been an alcoholic for a long time.
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'Hero with a habit' goes back to the early 70s with Green Arrow's sidekick Speedy portrayed as a junkie. (Green Lantern #85-86 Sept/Nov 71)There was a Spider-man story that dealt with drugs, but it was a supporting cast member. (Amazing Spider-man #96-97 May/Jun 71)
They still play with Speedy's addiction and subsequent recovery in the current run of GA, though he hasn't relapsed (as of a few issues ago, I haven't made it down to St. Marks comics in far too long).
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By the way, did I miss something, or did we ever find our why the character's stipend was cut off? Was that part of the "experiment" (seeing if the "hothouse flowers" of the Union could survive unsupported on the outside?) or was it a random event?
i never heard it stated explicitly but it was probably intentional maneuvering on the part of Nova. within union rules he couldn't tell an agent to work undercover as a stripper or hooker but he could leave her on her own and use hypnotic suggestion to prevent her from supporting herself any other way.
union dues is bleak but i'm always left wanting to know what happens next. similar to the failed cities monologues (http://www.variantfrequencies.com/2006/02/14/failed-cities-monologues-01/).
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Well. I'm starting to warm up to the Union Dues stories. I think I got off to a bad start with Iron Bars and the Glass Jaw followed by Send In the Clowns, neither of which I cared for very much. Still working my way through the Escape Pod archives, and I think I've only got Cleanup in Aisle 5 left to hear.
That being said, the last couple of UD stories that I've listened to (which weren't in EP-chronological order) have caused me to elevate them to the status of "okay", up from "meh".
I seem to be more likely to enjoy the ones with fewer superheros, as in Freedom With a Small f.
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Liked it very much. I am honestly glad that the series is going in a very dark direction. I always prefered dark comics to the glossy kind. The main character seemed a bit klicheed to me, we don't really get much more than drugaddicted stripper with the Powers thrown in. But it is a still a very sympathetic character and the story had a nice plot.
More please (though maybe not in the all to near future, I understand everybody who doesn't like a specific kind of story and we had a lot of UD-stories in a short period of time).
The closing song was simply GOLD, like Jonathan Coulton at his best. Listenend to it three times in a row.
I would quote the best parts here, but then I'd have to copy the complete lyrics.
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Yeah, let me second the love for the song. I listened to it on Drabblecast the day before I listened to this EP episode, and I was really delighted the moment Steve mentioned he's playing it again.
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Yeah, let me second the love for the song. I listened to it on Drabblecast the day before I listened to this EP episode, and I was really delighted the moment Steve mentioned he's playing it again.
Thirded.
Fantastic!
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I think Union Dues could use some super-villains.
Actually, I think The Union are the super-villains.
That's actually a very astute observation. I keep finding myself thinking "what fecking bastards!" while listening to Union Dues stories, but never made the villain connection. I guess that, as a listener/reader, I was told that the Union and members are the heroes, and I took that at face value. And, all through history, otherwise good people have been convinced to do horrible things by people who thought that they were doing something "right." No one is a villain in their own eyes.
As for this story, I liked it about as well as I've liked the others - that is, pretty well. They aren't my favorite Escape Pod stories, but I don't groan when I see one queued in my podcatcher. I would like to see some other aspects of the Union looked at, though - maybe something about the good that they Union is doing in the world. I think that would set off the horror a bit more when we get another story like this.
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Yeah, let me second the love for the song. I listened to it on Drabblecast the day before I listened to this EP episode, and I was really delighted the moment Steve mentioned he's playing it again.
Thirded.
Fantastic!
Squeeeel. He has a album (http://cdbaby.com/cd/normsherman) out. Bought it without listening to the samples.
Later: Finished listening. It's effin hilarious! More like Stephen Lynch than Coulton, but I love it nonetheless. The recording quality is better than Juzt Mizundrstood.
Best songs are Fetus In Your Kitchen, FEMA and Jesus Clones.
And nobody has played it on Audiosurf, so I made the highscore for EVERY SINGLE SONG. (Which is is in no way a challenge to the forum. Just saying... ;-)
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I thought the story was good, but I didn't like it. Talk about dark - the Union driving a member into addiction and prostitution. I like the Union dues stories but this one felt too soon after the last one.
+1 for the song.
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Definitely one of my favourite UD stories. More details on the dark and not entirely heroic nature of the Union are always good.
I'm not sure how she figured out that a random cop in a strip club would know where the kidnapped baby was, but other than that, it was all good.
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I think Union Dues could use some super-villains.
Actually, I think The Union are the super-villains.
That's actually a very astute observation. I keep finding myself thinking "what fecking bastards!" while listening to Union Dues stories, but never made the villain connection. I guess that, as a listener/reader, I was told that the Union and members are the heroes, and I took that at face value. And, all through history, otherwise good people have been convinced to do horrible things by people who thought that they were doing something "right." No one is a villain in their own eyes.
Or maybe the Union changed over time. You can think of any number of organizations or even whole governments that started out with noble intentions and high hopes, only to slowly degenerate into a bunch of thugs intent on nothing more than preserving their own power. Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe is the most recent widely-publicized example, but there are lots of others.
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Yeah, I always felt like the Union were meant to be seen by the reader as an institution that started with high ideals, and still spouts them, but has gotten far, far from those ideals in practice. Allegorical, much?
I really like UD stories, and this is no exception. The story was drowning in unresolved pathos, which can be hard to stomach, but it did it without getting maudlin.
BUT, if you take out the minor superpower scene, the Union Dues references and label you have a mediocre and cliched undercover cop story.
I may risk sounding like a broken record (cf my comments on Behind the Rules), but what of it? You could take the whales and the ship out of Moby Dick, and it would be a story about the land. Sure, storylines run to certain conventions, but that's because those conventions are effective. Sometimes an undercurrent of corrupt superhero organization is what it takes to make what would otherwise "mediocre and cliched undercover cop story" something interesting.
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I have always sighed when someone describes the Union Dues series as being about "Superheroes". As far as I'm concerned, there are no superheroes in these stories. There are superpowered people (metas in DC's parlance) who are dressed up like Superheroes in order to make the public accept them.
This doesn't make them heroes.
I don't know if the series needs villains (other than the Union itself), but I'm always confused by why we haven't seen any supers who haven't joined. The Union doesn't have some infallible "Cerebro" device to detect all the people with powers. Some folks must have resisted joining and are out there undercover trying to lead normal lives. Or even using their powers to their own advantage from time to time...
As to this story itself, it was just okay. Which is how I react to most UD stories, really. I enjoyed the dark / underworld atmosphere here, but thought the kidnapping plot was kind of lacking. And I don't need to be shown that the union is full of bastards who deserve to be taken down, I figured that out back in Iron Bars and the Glass Jaw. I do want to see that start to pay off, but I fear that may be reserved for the UD Novel that DeRego has mentioned planning.
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I don't know if the series needs villains (other than the Union itself), but I'm always confused by why we haven't seen any supers who haven't joined. The Union doesn't have some infallible "Cerebro" device to detect all the people with powers. Some folks must have resisted joining and are out there undercover trying to lead normal lives. Or even using their powers to their own advantage from time to time...
As I've said elsewhere, I'm keen to know how supers are treated elsewhere in the world. The Union seems to be an exclusively American organisation, so what happens to supers in Canada, or Europe, or Australia? Do other countries have equally draconian organisations, or do they just require registration and maybe lojacking? Is there an underground railroad smuggling supers from America to Mexico? Do supers even exist, outside of the US?
I think there could be some very interesting stories in there.
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This one was an eye-opening look at just how bleak the life of a superpowered person could be.
I think it took some real guts for J.R. to put this one on paper and submit it, as well as for SFE to buy it.
This one didn't pull any punches, didn't sugarcoat anything, didn't even give us an "up" ending with a glimmer of hope. Just a lonely, frightened young woman sobbing in an apartment that is tantamount to a prison.
The story didn't make me feel happy, but it made me miserable in a wonderful way.
For those people who think that Union Dues doesn't bring anything new to the table, brother, you're sitting at the wrong table.
Good one, J.R., keep 'em comin'.
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I think this story would have been more effective sanz about 700 words. Dergo is great with detail but it is a bit much here.
Aside from that this was a great story and I really enjoyed it.
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This one was an eye-opening look at just how bleak the life of a superpowered person could be.
I think it took some real guts for J.R. to put this one on paper and submit it, as well as for SFE to buy it.
This one didn't pull any punches, didn't sugarcoat anything, didn't even give us an "up" ending with a glimmer of hope. Just a lonely, frightened young woman sobbing in an apartment that is tantamount to a prison.
The story didn't make me feel happy, but it made me miserable in a wonderful way.
For those people who think that Union Dues doesn't bring anything new to the table, brother, you're sitting at the wrong table.
Good one, J.R., keep 'em comin'.
I agree with this psot.
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I think Union Dues could use some super-villains.
Actually, I think The Union are the super-villains.
[/quote]
The Union is reminding me more and more of the Psy Corp out of Babylon 5. There is nothing more terrifying than a bureaucracy with access to unlimited power.
As far as Crimson’s drug problem, I found it disturbing, but with her background as an orphan and the drug culture in her work place, I wasn’t too surprised to find she too was partaking. I didn’t hear how long she was on the streets on her own before the Union discovered her and took her in.
I was caught by her saying, early in the story, that she was dying. This was never returned to. Or perhaps it was and I was too busy playing dodge ‘em on the beltway to hear. Can the supers die from disease or neglect?
Interesting series. I’ve listened to the Union Dues stories, Mur’s Playing For Keeps, and Mercedes Lackey/Steve Libby’s The Secret World Chronicles, and am struck by how different each person brings to life basically the same idea. Supers, good/bad, no one has it easy.
Also, I think the stories are getting more frustrating for me because it feels like the author is heading somewhere BIG. A large plot arc, major development, a hard left....something, and the drips and drabs on Escape Pod aren't allowing him to feed us the arc properly. I keep expecting, hoping really, to hear Union Dues has moved over to Podiobooks and is coming out in a longer, more book like form.
(edited due to short term memory issues. What was I saying again?)
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I've not listened to the story yet, but I just want to reference this post from the EP153 thread...
http://forum.escapeartists.info/index.php?topic=1501.msg24347#msg24347
I am apparently prescient.
Heh. If it helps any, I had not read your comment when I scheduled this story.
As for lesser-known authors, I'm sympathetic to your viewpoint here. But we're about to go into our Hugo run, so it's going to be at least a few more weeks. (And you're guaranteed to get one more Resnick story in the next month, too. He was Hugo-nominated. My hands are tied.) >8->
No worries. I was joking around.
At least if it's Hugo-nominated, it'll probably be better than standard Resnick. (Which isn't usually bad.)
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I liked this one better than the previous.
The title threw me a little -- Crimson has the freedom to do what she wants as long as she also does what the Union wants, and I get that. But... I dunno, I'm not any good with titles myself.
The comment from "Michael King" is funny to me because in about eight hours, he'll be sitting at the desk next to mine. (We work in the same department at the same TV station.)
Contrariwise to what others are saying, I don't think we need a supervillain in the Unionverse. (See what I did there? :) ) If the Union had a supervillain to rally against, they would by nature have to be the good guys, and the Union itself... not so much. The people, yes; the organization, no.
The references to money, more than anything, really brought the story home. The last time I had to use a laundromat, I spent $5 total on all my laundry, and that was like six or seven loads through washer and dryer. The cost of pizza and soda, not so out-of-line. Does laundry really cost that much these days?
I think the author did a great job of getting into this character's head, especially her misery. I might have appreciated a short paragraph about how she decided to start using coke. Drinking is an easy one to fall into, but coke? Coke takes effort. And it's illegal.
For a short time I thought Crimson would be a vigilante. Then I thought the Union would disavow any knowledge of her existence and sacrifice her for the greater good. Which they did, but not in the way I expected.
A nice touch: how Alex Nova dehumanized her in the limo by not referring to her by her real name, just her Union name and her stripper name. The Union is a dehumanizing organization, which is part of what makes them that much more evil. And not just that low-grade evil that rubs off on everyone who touches it. You know, like British Rail. (Thank you, Terry Pratchett and perhaps Neil Gaiman; I don't remember if that's from Good Omens or a Discworld book.)
My favorite Union story was probably "Clowns", but this one is close to #2, if not already there.
I think we need a Union story that hearkens back to "Clowns", to the Union interacting with themselves, instead of one Union member out there in the world.
Whoever said "one every six months is good, one every six weeks not so much", I agree with. They're not serialized enough, I think, to justify such a quick reappearance. Unless there really isn't anything good out there that can trump U.D., in which case, I understand the selection, but that in itself depresses me.
Finally... deep down, I know JRD is just ITCHING to write the "Union members go on strike/rebel against the Union/take it down" story. If it's not written already. Maybe that'll be the novel... or the green-screen movie shot by Areakt/Rob Caves productions...
(CFL bulb appears above head.)
PS: I liked the reader. Use her again please.
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Another great piece from Jeff. I can understand why some people don't enjoy the UD stories, and why this one in particular is getting hit so hard. Super-hero pieces usually leave me cold. I find them simplistic, two-dimensional, and utterly over the top. The UD stories are, I think, the most realistic imagining of what a world with super-heroes might really be like. This is challenging fiction, not *POW!* *BIFF!* *UMF!* stuff. "Superfreinds" a la "Gattaca." So I guess I'm not tired of UD yet.
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I like Union Dues at hte best of times. Its like an old friend.... keeps coming back, I have a good time and it leaves.
I don't know if the universe needs a supervillian... it would been to undermine the point of the universe. They are propaganda spreading glory hogs who are only really to protect themselves from the people father than protect everyone else.
This story didn't really fit in that same vein for me. I still liked it, and it didn't have the normal ending where you know for sure things are going to get better from now on. The Union experimenting with giving heroes secret identities? I'm not sure why... unless they want to put heroes back into the genetral population... but then they wouldn't be able to control them on the same level. Ah wait... the hypnotic suggestions. Hmm....
Meh. I liked it enough and it made me think enough to come here and comment. That the previous few stories haven't. I don't know. I didn't not like them... and I had nothing negative to say about them... but I liked this one.
And I keep playing that damn song at the end...
So when the compilation 'music to eat brains to' coming out wiuth all this awesome zombie music people are making?
>_>
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For me, this UD story was the most compulsive listen of the bunch. It sucked me right in and didn't let go until Daikaiju fired up the closing music. I felt like there were a couple times I had to stretch my suspension of disbelief (that was a hell of a hunch) but the writing was so strong, it really wasn't that hard. I thought it was some of the best writing in the Unionverse ;). Well played.
I don't remember anyone else saying anything about the narration, but I thought Nuri's reading absolutely nailed it. It sounded completely natural and perfectly paced.
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Yeah, let me second the love for the song. I listened to it on Drabblecast the day before I listened to this EP episode, and I was really delighted the moment Steve mentioned he's playing it again.
Thirded.
Fantastic!
Where's a link for the song? It was the only song to have made my laugh out loud driving to work over the last 6 months. Its a share worthy classic in my mind.
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Where's a link for the song? It was the only song to have made my laugh out loud driving to work over the last 6 months. Its a share worthy classic in my mind.
Check out the Drabblecast website.
http://web.mac.com/normsherman/iWeb/Site/Podcast/Podcast.html (http://web.mac.com/normsherman/iWeb/Site/Podcast/Podcast.html)
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I don't remember anyone else saying anything about the narration, but I thought Nuri's reading absolutely nailed it. It sounded completely natural and perfectly paced.
Definitely. I thought this was an above-average Union Dues story anyway, but the reading really sold it.
Some of the previous stories have elaborated on aspects of the Union that didn't seem surprising for a bureaucracy out of control. To me this was the first unpredictable development. Beyond the PR and the self-preservation of any large organization, what are the people at the top, the ones with discretionary power, running for their special ops? And this special op was an interesting one.
Other than that, I liked the parallel lack of glamour in the portrayal of two professions (stripper and superheroine) that like to glamorize themselves. I also liked the fact that the various parallels (of which there do seem to be many: really, Union members are on a par with strippers in this universe) weren't laboured. As usual with Union Dues, I found I cared about what happened to the viewpoint character by the end.
Less positively, either there were continuity gaps in the plot or gaps in my attention (I'd have said the latter but other posters' comments mentioned the same things), and it could probably have lost a few words. These didn't bother me as much as they might have.
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Other than that, I liked the parallel lack of glamour in the portrayal of two professions (stripper and superheroine) that like to glamorize themselves. I also liked the fact that the various parallels (of which there do seem to be many: really, Union members are on a par with strippers in this universe) weren't laboured. As usual with Union Dues, I found I cared about what happened to the viewpoint character by the end.
Neat insight. I missed it in the first time through.
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I wonder if there's something going on stylistically and JR is being too subtle, or if it's a fault of the medium?
It's neither, at least as far as I am concerned.
i have to agree.
maybe i should have been more specific. i could say i learn about the union. but i don't CARE. i'm not interested in one more soul-smashing, beaurocratic, systemic manifestation of human mediocrity and incompetance....systemic evil is depressing, it's not educating. here lets see how many ways we can fail to organize in productive ways! ....no thanks, i'll take the liver and brussel sprouts instead, please.
now, make it a personal evil instead...then you've got my attention.
Mod: Fixed quote formatting
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I found this story confusing. Was the drinking, drugs and dyslexia part of her cover story, part of the "template"? If so, a drunk, coked-out dyslexic super-agile is not an effective crimefighter. (I half-expected that she was going completely paranoid when she thought the guys in the club were connected with the kidnapped baby.) Furthermore, if she is deep cover, why was there no emergency procedure for her to make contact, like a code word or secret 1-800 number?
I get the idea that the protagonist is getting screwed over by the organization she works for, but it seems so blatant and so pointless that I don't know why she doesn't quit. Unless that's part of her mind-control template too.
As a side note, I'm wondering about something I've noticed in the Union Dues stories, Mur Lafferty's Playing for Keeps, the Secret World anthologies and other prose versions of the superhero genre. The authors keep making their superhumans members of large, bureaucratic, state-sanctioned, hierarchical organizations, with lots of Silver Age trappings (skyscrapers, jets, etc). They're bureaucrats with superpowers, not superheroes, closer to Jack Bauer than Batman.
You can compare this with Neil Gaiman's Eternals for Marvel and Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers of Victory, both of which try to put the "hero" back in "superhero" by rejecting realism and investing characters with mythic significance and making them players in vast cosmic, Jack Kirby-based mythologies. What's lacking in the Union Dues stories and the other works cited above is that sensawonda, IMHO.
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Much like the books of Le Carre isn't James Bond, Union Dues is not Superman.
I think the 'experiment' could be seen several ways. Can an Union member live outside the system without revealing her abilities? Would she still 'save the day' or keep her head down? What is life really like on the outside?
Oh, is there a wiki or something about the Union Dues universe?
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I think Jeffrey R. DeRego should get this story illustrated by Frank Miller. I kept thinking of Nancy Callahan throughout.
I should clarify: That is high praise from me. The last one or two Union Dues stories were nice, but didn't suck me in against my will, painting pictures in my head. This one did, and I'm grateful.
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I wonder if there's something going on stylistically and JR is being too subtle, or if it's a fault of the medium?
It's neither, at least as far as I am concerned.
i have to agree.
maybe i should have been more specific. i could say i learn about the union. but i don't CARE. i'm not interested in one more soul-smashing, beaurocratic, systemic manifestation of human mediocrity and incompetance....systemic evil is depressing, it's not educating. here lets see how many ways we can fail to organize in productive ways! ....no thanks, i'll take the liver and brussel sprouts instead, please.
now, make it a personal evil instead...then you've got my attention.
Mod: Fixed quote formatting
Work for the government, do we? ;)
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The Best Union Dues story yet! Freakin awesome!
A stripper, with a heart of gold, super powers, and a drug habit, in a dark almost cyber-punk reality, who kicks ass?!?!? Does it get any better?
I think not!
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I get the idea that the protagonist is getting screwed over by the organization she works for, but it seems so blatant and so pointless that I don't know why she doesn't quit. Unless that's part of her mind-control template too.
Because she would get sent to Antarctica if she did. To me that would be a hell of an incentive...
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I get the idea that the protagonist is getting screwed over by the organization she works for, but it seems so blatant and so pointless that I don't know why she doesn't quit. Unless that's part of her mind-control template too.
Because she would get sent to Antarctica if she did. To me that would be a hell of an incentive...
I'd find Antarctica (as described in the prior UD story; can't remember which) preferable by far to the life she was living.
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I get the idea that the protagonist is getting screwed over by the organization she works for, but it seems so blatant and so pointless that I don't know why she doesn't quit. Unless that's part of her mind-control template too.
Because she would get sent to Antarctica if she did. To me that would be a hell of an incentive...
I'd find Antarctica (as described in the prior UD story; can't remember which) preferable by far to the life she was living.
I'm not so sure. I bet Union members have been drilled that The Village is a fate worse than death.
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I bet Union members have been drilled that The Village is a fate worse than death.
True ... only those who have been there know what it's like. Most never return, and those who do aren't talking about it (or more likely spread misinformation).
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I bet Union members have been drilled that The Village is a fate worse than death.
True ... only those who have been there know what it's like. Most never return, and those who do aren't talking about it (or more likely spread misinformation).
Wow. I totally don't remember any of this. I would love to hear a story about the Village insubordinate superheroes get sent to. If that's not a story Jeffrey DeRego is working on, I hope he gets to it soon. It sounds like more depressing superhero fun to me :)
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The villiage is discussed in some detail in "off white lies".
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this story wasn't all that bad. i've only listened to one other UD story and i did enjoy that one as well.
what i didn't like about this story though was that it seemed to me that it was saying that if you are a female and left on your own without steady money from someone supporting you, you will become druggie/drunk/stripper.
too much stereotyping for me
thought at the same time, without having any background given for mrs juggs, it is fairly possible she may have reverted to a life that she was in when she joined the union to begin with.
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In the previous stories the Union has been an organization devoted to the preservation of liberty, justice and peace. Perfect? Hardly. Many of the Union's policies seem to be necessary evils, and some of its actions have been disastrous mistakes, but up to this point the mistakes have been honest and the intentions pure. The Union has struggled to do good in an evil world, and done a less-than-horrible job of it, all things considered.
Wow, we've been listening to different stories. The Union has always been portrayed as an organization just trying to keep its place in the world. Maybe they really did some good at some point in time, but now it's all about self-preservation. There is a massive real world conterpart to that, but that would totally derail this thread.
Anyway, back to what I thought. Whenever I comment on comic book type stuff, I feel I need to disclose that I never read any comic books. Maybe that lets me look at these things differently.
I loved it. I like dark stories. I don't need to like the major character or the organization. I felt the same thing for her as I did for Kevin Spacey in American Beauty. There was nothing to connect me to the character. I spent my time saying, "don't do that." But the story held me. Kind of like a car crash, but in a good way.
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what i didn't like about this story though was that it seemed to me that it was saying that if you are a female and left on your own without steady money from someone supporting you, you will become druggie/drunk/stripper.
She had no skills or education that would get her a job better than stocking shelves at a convienience store and that work is only part time. It's a truism that a pretty girl can always walk into one of these bars with no experience and start dancing the next night. And it pays well.
There is a human cost though and it's a crappy environment. Add to that the feeling that the only thing she has that is at all like a family has left her abandoned and it's easy to see how it could happen.
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what i didn't like about this story though was that it seemed to me that it was saying that if you are a female and left on your own without steady money from someone supporting you, you will become druggie/drunk/stripper.
too much stereotyping for me
I would be very surprised if Mr Derego had intended the reader to generalise from this one character to all of womankind. It would be on the order of extrapolating from Lolita's Humbert Humbert to come to the conclusion that all men are paedophiles.
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In the previous stories the Union has been an organization devoted to the preservation of liberty, justice and peace. Perfect? Hardly. Many of the Union's policies seem to be necessary evils, and some of its actions have been disastrous mistakes, but up to this point the mistakes have been honest and the intentions pure. The Union has struggled to do good in an evil world, and done a less-than-horrible job of it, all things considered.
Wow, we've been listening to different stories. The Union has always been portrayed as an organization just trying to keep its place in the world. Maybe they really did some good at some point in time, but now it's all about self-preservation. There is a massive real world conterpart to that, but that would totally derail this thread.
The Union can be seen as a villain. But so could the public.
The public sees a bunch of grandstanding costumed freaks running around. Sure they save some people, but does the Union do anything about 'real world' problems like poverty, inequality, etc. They perch themselves in their pyramids like gods who care little for their concerns.
The Union sees a bunch of spoiled ungrateful peasants who should be worshiping at their feet instead of complaining so damn much. These heroes give up their families and their lives for duty and all they get is contempt. Do the unwashed masses want uncontrolled super powered people doing whatever?
This 4 color universe may seem gray to some, but without gray any sort of variation in shade would be impossible.
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Whenever I comment on comic book type stuff, I feel I need to disclose that I never read any comic books. Maybe that lets me look at these things differently.
I loved it. I like dark stories. I don't need to like the major character or the organization.
This is exactly how I feel about the Union Dues. I really enjoy stories that challenge the stereotypes of literature. Ergo, I really liked this story, much as I have liked all UD stories.
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I loved it. I like dark stories. I don't need to like the major character or the organization. I felt the same thing for her as I did for Kevin Spacey in American Beauty. There was nothing to connect me to the character. I spent my time saying, "don't do that." But the story held me. Kind of like a car crash, but in a good way.
Thanks, Nash—you described that perfectly.
I don't typically like dark stories, but, for some reason, the Unionverse (thanks Listener!) works for me. This didn't fail to disappoint. I was expecting something even darker, though, from Steve's intro (e.g. I thought she was going to accidentally kill the child).
I have to admit, though, like several others have mentioned, that there needs to be a conclusion to this series, where the Union is exposed for its evil. Otherwise these stories are just dark for the sake of being super hero avant garde.
I didn't understand the leap of logic Crimson made to know how the cop knew something, but I attributed it to either something I missed or some latent power of hers. It didn't bother me enough to take me out of the story, though.
The style and tone of the writing were vivid (can dark be vivid?). Very well done, I thought. And I agree with all of the praise for the narrator! She needs to do more!
Edit: sorry! I didn't mean to say "this didn't fail to disappoint!" I meant to say "this didn't disappoint!!"
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I didn't understand the leap of logic Crimson made to know how the cop knew something, but I attributed it to either something I missed or some latent power of hers. It didn't bother me enough to take me out of the story, though.
She took a guess, literally.
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I like the UD stories OK, and I liked this one OK. But I feel that each story makes the same point as the last one. I get it. Being a superhero isn't like it is in the comic books. The Union is a soulless, oppressive organization.
The foundation has been laid. Let's build something on it.
Do you guys prefer Unionverse or Duesiverse?
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I like the UD stories OK, and I liked this one OK. But I feel that each story makes the same point as the last one. I get it. Being a superhero isn't like it is in the comic books. The Union is a soulless, oppressive organization.
The foundation has been laid. Let's build something on it.
Do you guys prefer Unionverse or Duesiverse?
Duesiverse sounds like a place that still requires the Latin Mass and every story is resolved by "ex machina" :)
For my money, the strength of the Deregoverse is that the Union, while it is a "soulless, oppressive organization", isn't "evil." At least, Mr. Jeff doesn't go out of his way to paint it that way; instead, we are treated to a series of snap-shots of those who work in and around it.
But the Union itself is represented as exactly what it is: a group of fallible people with more power over others than they really ought to have. It reminds me of my time in the Air Force; the officers are a bit on the zealous side, often lacking the competence to temper that zealotry. The rules are reinforced by brainwashing techniques, and guidance that filters down from On High through a bureaucratic chain of fools, like a real-life game of "Telephone" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_%28game%29).
While this is annoying for those of us at the bottom of the org chain, it shouldn't be confused with evil. I'm sure every critter splashed across the highway feels that the automobile that did the splashing is "evil", but automobiles are just big, dumb machines at the end of the day. And, like the Union, the motivation of whoever is driving is the question at the heart of the conundrum... who are they? what are their intentions?
As for relating to the characters, well... I suspect that Russell isn't telling us everything. Take American Beauty, for example; I'm sure Russell was only telling Kevin Spacey's character "don't do that" AFTER the opening scene*, when he was likely saying, "Hey, I do that!"
*This is only funny if you've seen the movie. Quote Spoiler (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169547/quotes): The opening scene shows Spacey's character, Lester, showering, with the voiceover: "Look at me, jerking off in the shower... This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here."
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Do you guys prefer Unionverse or Duesiverse?
Unionverse. No contest. Duesiverse sounds too much like it's somewhere in Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duisburg). Or a 1920's car (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesenberg)?
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As for relating to the characters, well... I suspect that Russell isn't telling us everything. Take American Beauty, for example; I'm sure Russell was only telling Kevin Spacey's character "don't do that" AFTER the opening scene*, when he was likely saying, "Hey, I do that!"
*This is only funny if you've seen the movie. Quote Spoiler (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169547/quotes): The opening scene shows Spacey's character, Lester, showering, with the voiceover: "Look at me, jerking off in the shower... This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here."
Spoiler response:I guess you repulse even yourself too much to do that.
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I must be the only one who actually sees the Union as good, sure they do some bad things and a very flawed, but overall they do what is nessecary.
Anyways i liked the story and have enjoyed all the other Union Dues stories.
One thing i wondered about was the fact that the main character seemed to be dying for whatever reason, yet she was just sent on a new mission without it being mentioned, did i miss something?
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I don't know what was the point of the main character being a poledancer/lapdancer. The description of her flat was very depressing. It seemed she only had a radio, no TV, or anything else. I kept asking myself what year the story was supposed to be set in. I was also very surprised by the prices at the laundrette.
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As for relating to the characters, well... I suspect that Russell isn't telling us everything. Take American Beauty, for example; I'm sure Russell was only telling Kevin Spacey's character "don't do that" AFTER the opening scene*, when he was likely saying, "Hey, I do that!"
*This is only funny if you've seen the movie. Quote Spoiler (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169547/quotes): The opening scene shows Spacey's character, Lester, showering, with the voiceover: "Look at me, jerking off in the shower... This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here."
Spoiler response:I guess you repulse even yourself too much to do that.
Touché.... say, what's that you're dueling with? Ewww!! :o
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I don't know what was the point of the main character being a poledancer/lapdancer. The description of her flat was very depressing. It seemed she only had a radio, no TV, or anything else. I kept asking myself what year the story was supposed to be set in. I was also very surprised by the prices at the laundrette.
I believe U.D. is near-future (5-10 years ahead of now). But the author could probably answer that better.
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I didn't understand the leap of logic Crimson made to know how the cop knew something, but I attributed it to either something I missed or some latent power of hers. It didn't bother me enough to take me out of the story, though.
She took a guess, literally.
Aww, see, now you totally spoiled the tangent I was going to throw in about how maybe Crimson has some latent low-grade empathy/telepathy. But then I was going to say how much that ruined the Anita Blake series, about how every story she seems to get a new superpower. So I was going to tangent and detangent myself, basically.
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Just a brief note: the story was rated 'R' (and quite rightly so) but there was no warning before the story started. Murphy must have had a giggle, because I did have the kids in the car when I listened to it! My ten year old was thanked me for turning the iPod off after Josie took Diamond Ring into the bathroom.
Of course, that's as bad as it got, but I certainly failed the WWMM-i-LS ('What Would My Mother-in-Law Say') test.
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I think I've listened to all the Union Dues stories that have been featured on Escape Pod, and really enjoying the developing universe. It's kind of like X-Men if they had evolved in Frank Miller's Sin City. Every organization is corrupt and looking out for themselves, and the only difference between bad and good is how many innocent people they're willing to destroy to build their power. If you look at Sports franchises, you don't have to exaggerate too far to get the Union.
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I think I've listened to all the Union Dues stories that have been featured on Escape Pod, and really enjoying the developing universe. It's kind of like X-Men if they had evolved in Frank Miller's Sin City. Every organization is corrupt and looking out for themselves, and the only difference between bad and good is how many innocent people they're willing to destroy to build their power. If you look at Sports franchises, you don't have to exaggerate too far to get the Union.
Ray, I want to tell you the first thing that popped into my mind when I read your name was "perhaps you'd like to pass the time by playing a little solitaire?"
Thanks for the compliment too! :)
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Hands down my favorite Union Dues story ever. It does an excellent job of revealing the heartless ruthlessness at the core of the Union and the victims the Union leaves in it's wake. The concept of a person who is both a cocaine-snorting alcoholic and a heroine gifted with superpowers is quite compelling as well.
Thanks for this, looking forward to more.
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Hands down my favorite Union Dues story ever. It does an excellent job of revealing the heartless ruthlessness at the core of the Union and the victims the Union leaves in it's wake. The concept of a person who is both a cocaine-snorting alcoholic and a heroine gifted with superpowers is quite compelling as well.
Thanks for this, looking forward to more.
Thanks Talia! I am thrilled you dug it :)
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The story was dark, and that's why it is beloved (by us fans). I personally liked how the whole world is dark and hard. Maybe the Union is the best one can hope for in a world where city cops kidnap babies to win contract negotiations. All of these stories have hinted that the world is a bit "off"
To answer a previous post, the Village is a prison. According to "Off White Lies"...
http://cdn1.libsyn.com/escapepod/EP049_OffWhiteLies.mp3
"It was unquestionably a prison" says the narrator...
Once you've manifested powers and you're found out you have two choices:
1. Join The Union and deal with their crap or
2. Go to prison (The Village). Only one exists now, but more are being built.
If you haven't listened to "Off White Lies," or it's been awhile, listen to it again. For those of you with weak stomach, there's no strippers here.
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The story was dark, and that's why it is beloved (by us fans). I personally liked how the whole world is dark and hard. Maybe the Union is the best one can hope for in a world where city cops kidnap babies to win contract negotiations. All of these stories have hinted that the world is a bit "off"
To answer a previous post, the Village is a prison. According to "Off White Lies"...
http://cdn1.libsyn.com/escapepod/EP049_OffWhiteLies.mp3
"It was unquestionably a prison" says the narrator...
Once you've manifested powers and you're found out you have two choices:
1. Join The Union and deal with their crap or
2. Go to prison (The Village). Only one exists now, but more are being built.
If you haven't listened to "Off White Lies," or it's been awhile, listen to it again. For those of you with weak stomach, there's no strippers here.
Aw... you're lego-head avatar is way cooler than mine! :'(
And, Jeff... is it too late to change my vote about the T-Shirt? It would greatly complement my wife's "I make people... what's your superpower" shirt.
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Freedom with a small f reinforces the notion that the super heroes are slaves to the union. Jeff, when do we get to see the resistance and the underground? Don't make me write fan fiction!
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Excellent ending, just the right kind of "oof", in the gut. Totally addicted to the Union Dues.
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Just a note:
I just saw a trailer for the forthcoming movie "Watchmen," and the look of it is exactly how I had pictured the Union Dues stories. Cool, slick, futuristic. Dreary, sad, scary. People who seem to know their crazy outfits are silly but where them out of a sense of super-conformitarianism.
That's all.
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Just a note:
I just saw a trailer for the forthcoming movie "Watchmen," and the look of it is exactly how I had pictured the Union Dues stories. Cool, slick, futuristic. Dreary, sad, scary. People who seem to know their crazy outfits are silly but where them out of a sense of super-conformitarianism.
Have you read the comic? It's a true classic of the genre.
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Have you read the comic? It's a true classic of the genre.
Yes, but don't make my mistake. In college, when I first decided to give comics a chance, I read Watchmen first, followed by the entire Sandman series. And then assumed most other stuff would be just as good.
The trouble with starting at the top like that is that there's nowhere higher to go. It's a bit like saying, "Hmmm, I'd like to give Sotch a chance," starting with a Macallan 25 year, and then asking for comparable single malts at the corner bar.
I have found plenty of other comics I've enjoyed immensely. Busiek's Astro City is amazing. I've read the first Y: The Last Man collection and am desperate for more. There's great stuff out there. ...But dammit. I'll never get a chance to read Watchmen or Sandman again for the first time.
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Have you read the comic? It's a true classic of the genre.
Yes, but don't make my mistake. In college, when I first decided to give comics a chance, I read Watchmen first, followed by the entire Sandman series. And then assumed most other stuff would be just as good.
The trouble with starting at the top like that is that there's nowhere higher to go. It's a bit like saying, "Hmmm, I'd like to give Sotch a chance," starting with a Macallan 25 year, and then asking for comparable single malts at the corner bar.
I have found plenty of other comics I've enjoyed immensely. Busiek's Astro City is amazing. I've read the first Y: The Last Man collection and am desperate for more. There's great stuff out there. ...But dammit. I'll never get a chance to read Watchmen or Sandman again for the first time.
I also recommend The Incal by Jodorowsky & Moebius ... though acquiring it can be a challenge.
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I also recommend The Incal by Jodorowsky & Moebius ... though acquiring it can be a challenge.
Duly noted. I'd never heard of it, but by the descriptions I just looked up it sounds pretty spiffy. Thanks.
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I also recommend The Incal by Jodorowsky & Moebius ... though acquiring it can be a challenge.
Duly noted. I'd never heard of it, but by the descriptions I just looked up it sounds pretty spiffy. Thanks.
Be advised that I refer only to the primary, original story -- I can't speak to the quality of "Avant l'Incal" or "Apres l'Incal" because I haven't read them.
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Are the Union Dues stories available in book form??? As much as I enjoy the podcasts, I find I comprehend and retain stories better when I read them. I really liked this story, if "like" is an appropriate word for a story that's so disturbing. I heard another Union Dues story on ClonePod that I enjoyed a lot too. I'd love to read more of these stories.
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Are the Union Dues stories available in book form??? As much as I enjoy the podcasts, I find I comprehend and retain stories better when I read them. I really liked this story, if "like" is an appropriate word for a story that's so disturbing. I heard another Union Dues story on ClonePod that I enjoyed a lot too. I'd love to read more of these stories.
I'd much rather read "The Ballad of Kitty Momoiro" myself than listen to the Clonepod reading again (I'm in the apparent "minority of one" that hated the reading). But I also agree that these stories would be good to have anthologized on paper. Maybe once the Team Shikaragaki arc is completed, Mr. DeRego?
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Are the Union Dues stories available in book form??? As much as I enjoy the podcasts, I find I comprehend and retain stories better when I read them. I really liked this story, if "like" is an appropriate word for a story that's so disturbing. I heard another Union Dues story on ClonePod that I enjoyed a lot too. I'd love to read more of these stories.
I'd much rather read "The Ballad of Kitty Momoiro" myself than listen to the Clonepod reading again (I'm in the apparent "minority of one" that hated the reading). But I also agree that these stories would be good to have anthologized on paper. Maybe once the Team Shikaragaki arc is completed, Mr. DeRego?
The best thing you guys could do to help get these on paper is send requests for the stories to Swarm Publishing, the same guys who have the rights to Brave Men Run and Playing for Keeps at the moment. They requested a submissions packet from me in April, but due to those other releases they haven't made a decision. Getting a couple of mails from fans of the series might help them decide faster (or something).
Also -
StePH, check your PM box.
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The best thing you guys could do to help get these on paper is send requests for the stories to Swarm Publishing, the same guys who have the rights to Brave Men Run and Playing for Keeps at the moment. They requested a submissions packet from me in April, but due to those other releases they haven't made a decision. Getting a couple of mails from fans of the series might help them decide faster (or something).
Done.
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The best thing you guys could do to help get these on paper is send requests for the stories to Swarm Publishing, the same guys who have the rights to Brave Men Run and Playing for Keeps at the moment. They requested a submissions packet from me in April, but due to those other releases they haven't made a decision. Getting a couple of mails from fans of the series might help them decide faster (or something).
Done.
Very cool! Thanks! If anything happens, I'll let you guys know either way if they want the stories.
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Does anyone else who subscribes via iTunes miss this episode?
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Does anyone else who subscribes via iTunes miss this episode?
I know I didn't.
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Does anyone else who subscribes via iTunes miss this episode?
I know I didn't.
I subscribe via iTunes, and I got it, too, same as usual.
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Does anyone else who subscribes via iTunes miss this episode?
I know I didn't.
I subscribe via iTunes, and I got it, too, same as usual.
Same
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Does anyone else who subscribes via iTunes miss this episode?
I know I didn't.
I subscribe via iTunes, and I got it, too, same as usual.
Same
So smithmikeg, I guess it's just you, dude. ???
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Does anyone else who subscribes via iTunes miss this episode?
I know I didn't.
I subscribe via iTunes, and I got it, too, same as usual.
Same
So smithmikeg, I guess it's just you, dude. ???
RSS is still a touchy technology. My different feeds all do silly stuff from time to time.
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Does anyone else who subscribes via iTunes miss this episode?
I know I didn't.
I subscribe via iTunes, and I got it, too, same as usual.
Same
So smithmikeg, I guess it's just you, dude. ???
Fair enough. Thanks for the info, all. I just downloaded it, should be listened to tonight.
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This was my second favorite Union Dues story so far, behind Off-White Lies. Though I've generally liked them, I like a little action to go with my angst, and having some clear villains, even if they're not super, works much better for me.
I liked this one for its darkness, and how it took a look at an aspect of the Unionverse that we hadn't seen before, a super operating outside of the Union (mostly, at least). The one thing that bothered me was her improbably correct guess about the single cop she sees actually being involved--that would've been much smoother if there had been an actual clue she had seen instead of just randomly following one guy, and he turns out to be the exact lead she needs.
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This was my second favorite Union Dues story so far, behind Off-White Lies. Though I've generally liked them, I like a little action to go with my angst, and having some clear villains, even if they're not super, works much better for me.
I liked this one for its darkness, and how it took a look at an aspect of the Unionverse that we hadn't seen before, a super operating outside of the Union (mostly, at least). The one thing that bothered me was her improbably correct guess about the single cop she sees actually being involved--that would've been much smoother if there had been an actual clue she had seen instead of just randomly following one guy, and he turns out to be the exact lead she needs.
There will never, ever, be villains in Union Dues. Part of the premise of the series is that the supers have no clear purpose, the way the powers are structured and the way the charter works, it's nearly impossible for someone to become a "supervillain" as soon as someones powers are confirmed, they become property of The Union. Freelancers might be successful for a few months on the outside, but once The Union sees their exploits in the paper, that person is recruited in. The only way to avoid being captured and taken over by The Union is to never, ever show your powers once they manifest. The stories aren't meant to be comic books, there are thousands of comic titles printed every week that are chock full of whiz-bang action and super heroics, these are meant to be short stories that examine unusual people in somewhat unusual situations pressured by extraordinary and uncontrollable circumstances.
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There will never, ever, be villains in Union Dues.
There were villains in this one with the kidnappers, and in Off White Lies with the super brawl on the streets. As opposed to Glass Jaw, where the action that occurs between beginning and end of the story consists of two people talking, neither of them at all villainous--I liked that story, but action packed it was not.
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The "villain" in Off White Lies actually chilled me quite a bit (that is, the leader of the Union team who it soon became clear was not so heroic). If that guy wasn't villainous, I don't know what is.
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The "villain" in Off White Lies actually chilled me quite a bit (that is, the leader of the Union team who it soon became clear was not so heroic). If that guy wasn't villainous, I don't know what is.
If the other side of that story had been published you'd see him not as a villain. I wrote it, it's called "A Gold Watch, a Handshake, a Candle" but Steve passed on back when Off-White Lies was being produced because the storyline overlapped. The actual scenes in downtown Miami were the crux point between both stories. But Ultra Magnus isn't a villain, take it from me, he's crazy in that story, and goes crazy leading up to his appearance in Off-White Lies, but he's not a villain.
If things work out Ultra Magnus' story is a huge part of the season 1 story arc.
I say all of this and realize that I've sort of written a villain into the story "The Sum of its Parts" and he's more like a villain in the classical sense, but like the others, he is viewed through the prism of the main characters POVs.
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There will never, ever, be villains in Union Dues.
There were villains in this one with the kidnappers, and in Off White Lies with the super brawl on the streets. As opposed to Glass Jaw, where the action that occurs between beginning and end of the story consists of two people talking, neither of them at all villainous--I liked that story, but action packed it was not.
The kidnappers were an abstract, and wholly the problem of the Normals. They have no motive that bisects with the main character other than circumstance and luck. It's almost as if they are unaware of her existence. I also tried to make it clear that both sides of the contract dispute had questionable motives so there was no clear antagonist.
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The kidnappers were an abstract, and wholly the problem of the Normals. They have no motive that bisects with the main character other than circumstance and luck. It's almost as if they are unaware of her existence. I also tried to make it clear that both sides of the contract dispute had questionable motives so there was no clear antagonist.
Okay, call them whatever you want, but the kidnappers are concrete human beings who oppose the will of the protagonist whether or not they are aware of her existence. And sure, Ultra Magnus may not be a villain from another perspective, but that story is from a perspective in which he is clearly a villain--you said yourself that he was crazy at that point, and crazy people make some of the best villains because they can be so unpredictable. I can't make judgments based on the occurrences in an unpublished story, and in any case authorial intent (while interesting) is much less important to my perception of a story than the content of the story itself.
You can call them whatever you please, but I will call them villains. You do realize that IF you were able to convince stubborn old me of your point, that I would like these 2 stories less as a result? That seems like a "lose" for both of us. ;D
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I've enjoyed the discussion here about villains. I think maybe I'm coming around to seeing that in the Unionverse there are heroes and there are villains, but none of them are "Super". I think I'm in the same camp as Ocicat.
I think the author did a great job of getting into this character's head, especially her misery. I might have appreciated a short paragraph about how she decided to start using coke. Drinking is an easy one to fall into, but coke? Coke takes effort. And it's illegal.
Coke and other party drugs are a lot easier to fall into and a lot more accessible if you're a stripper. This detail rang true for me.