Escape Artists

Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Heradel on October 01, 2009, 12:52:29 PM

Title: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Heradel on October 01, 2009, 12:52:29 PM
EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
(http://escapepod.org/2009/10/01/ep218-ode-to-katan-amano/)
by Caitlin R. Kiernan (http://www.caitlinrkiernan.com/)
narrated by Kim the Comic Book Goddess (http://www.comicbookgoddess.com/)

No one hears when I ease the heavy steel door shut behind me. All the ears in the darkened workshop, all those hundreds and hundreds of ears, but still no one hears a thing. And I stand there for a while, as unmoving as they, not exactly frightened and not exactly uncertain if I should see this through — I think I stand there in reverence. I be-lieve that’s the word that people use for what I feel in that moment, standing there alone, alone with that assembled crowd.

Rated X for violence and strong sexual situations.  As Steve says in the intro, this one isn’t for the kids.

(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif)
Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://media.rawvoice.com/escapepod/media.libsyn.com/media/escapepod/EP218_OdetoKatanAmano.mp3)
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: KenK on October 01, 2009, 01:48:03 PM
Creepy. Hated it. Can't say anything good about this story at all other than the narration was good.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Joaquin Escudero Jr on October 01, 2009, 02:18:39 PM
Oy, holy shite! I'd never thought that listening to a story here on EP would leave a worst taste in my mouth then the morning I after I spoke my tobacco pipe, but here with this story I was proven wrong. Let me first say that the narration was superb and if I wasn't already married I'd fawn over the lovely comic book goddess with all the power that a geek could, which as we all know from Sci-fi and Fantasy and anime other such fandoms is great.

Now back to the story, I do have to admit that I've read and written my fair share of erotica over the years and don't find anything wrong with the notion of erotica and sex in a sci-fi story, even androids have needs. But it seemed to me that the only real novelty of this story was that it was the wanton sexual obsessions of an android and her owner. While that would have been a very compelling aspect of the story I don't think that it should be the main focus of one.


During the entire time that I was listening to the piece I kept waiting for a story to start and I was sadly disappointed by the end of it.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: MacArthurBug on October 01, 2009, 08:57:12 PM
Meh-ish. Didn't hate it, it just didn't "do it for me"
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: deflective on October 01, 2009, 09:16:52 PM
the link to Caitlin's site is broken.  it was was probably supposed to be here (http://www.caitlinrkiernan.com/), or maybe her blog (http://greygirlbeast.livejournal.com/).

i only listened with half an ear so i don't have much to say about the story.  it was enough to know it wasn't really my thing.

http://www.youtube.com/v/PQvpCqPmuec
when Steve started talking about obvious closing music after a story about a dresden blue doll i was totally expecting the dresden dolls.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Heradel on October 01, 2009, 09:28:13 PM
the link to Caitlin's site is broken.  it was was probably supposed to be here (http://www.caitlinrkiernan.com/), or maybe her blog (http://greygirlbeast.livejournal.com/).

Fixed, sorry about that folks.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Swamp on October 01, 2009, 10:38:51 PM
Even though I didn't listen to this story, I'm glad that EP provides a variety of stories each week.

Regarding creepy dolls, every since I watch Mirrormask, I can't get this scene out of my head:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz8-7JsFD_g
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Darwinist on October 02, 2009, 01:31:48 AM
Probably one of my least favorite EP's.   I usually don't mind adult themes in SF but the last thing I thought I'd hear about when I tapped in to EP was about dildo sex.  Give me a break. 
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: monkeystuff on October 02, 2009, 03:47:45 AM
this story left me with the feeling of...  meh

if it wasn't for the song at the end about the creepy dolls i won't have enjoyed this episode.   but the creepy doll song was very fitting

i liked the song more then the story
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Kaa on October 02, 2009, 05:27:27 AM
I suppose it was inevitable. After heaping praise on Escape Pod last week for tapping into my psyche and running a string of stories that really "hit" with me, I had to jinx it.

Interestingly enough, I also didn't like the story over on Podcastle, and both that one and this one used a lot of second person. That was a big part of what killed this one for me. Addressing the reader as "you" is something you have to be careful with, especially when "you" is described as doing something very unlike the majority of the readers. Personally, it tossed me out of the story when "you" lit a cigarette, which is something this particular "you" would never, ever do. Oh, yeah, and torture, too. And then after that I couldn't get back into it, and I was just glad when it was over, although I do remember saying, "Is that IT? It's ending THERE?" as I was turning left at a traffic light.

Oh, the narration was great. The story was just "meh" for me.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Boggled Coriander on October 02, 2009, 12:08:18 PM
I will admit that I liked the story more than anyone else who's commented so far.  Not sure if I can explain why, though, except that I found it haunting and not at all predictable.  The sex didn't turn me on, but I don't think it was supposed to.

What really creeped me out was that the protagonist was fully sentient, had free will, and was autonomous, but she had no rights and was at the mercy of her owner who could erase her memory at will.  And did she have any official duties besides sex?

By the way, since no one else has linked to it: some photos of Katan Amano's work can be found here (http://pygmalion.mda.or.jp/katan/katan.html).
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Katie on October 02, 2009, 02:52:07 PM
I liked this one a lot. I thought the repetitions of rape cycles was interesting, and the sexbot learning about her own identity and propensities for violence first perpetrated on a doll as a trial run was haunting. I thought the last quote really tied this story together in a satisfying way.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Robin Sure on October 02, 2009, 03:38:55 PM
More or less agree with all of the others above me. Nothing really seemed to happen in the story, and it felt more like a background chapter in some book or other.

My major gripe was the writing style. The flick around between you, me, she was disorientating, and the voice change that often accompanied threw me off, as I expected it to be a single person retelling.

And yeah, I was expecting Coin Operated Boy. Shame the better groups are typically the commercial ones.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Kaa on October 02, 2009, 03:42:59 PM
Shame the better groups are typically the commercial ones.

Careful lest Jonathan Coulton fans find out where you live, for we are geek and we are legion! :)
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Kanasta on October 02, 2009, 06:55:44 PM
I also found the writing style a bit disorientating, but I did enjoy the story. Sort of like a dark and pervy Mike Resnick tale! An interesting examination of the perpetuation of abuse, and the way the pyramid of power works, with each person abusing one weaker than themself -another version of the 'trickle-down effect'.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Prank Call of Cthulhu on October 02, 2009, 10:55:21 PM
I wish I could get one of those memory-wipe thingies so I could forget I'd ever sat through this crummy story.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: ajames on October 03, 2009, 12:35:41 AM
I'm glad this is not the regular fare on EP, but I'm also glad I go to listen to this. I liked how the author hit me with my own preconceptions several times during the story. And while I found the switch to the second person a bit jarring as well, after the initial jolt it drew me more into the story more than I otherwise would have been. I didn't identify with the "you" in the story, but I found myself thinking more about how I might interact with the main character or her ?owner? if I were a character in the story. This is not an easy subject to write about, I wouldn't think, and most of the stories written on the subject focus on revenge or escape from the cycle of violence. This was an interesting take on the subject.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Old Man Parker on October 03, 2009, 01:57:47 AM
That was so bad, I thought I was listening to "Pod Castle" for a second! The worst story EVER!
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Swamp on October 03, 2009, 03:09:02 AM
That was so bad, I thought I was listening to "Pod Castle" for a second! The worst story EVER!

This is an Escape Pod thread.  To express concerns about Pod Castle, you should PM its editors.  Sorry you didn't like the story.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Gia on October 03, 2009, 03:27:13 AM
The worst story EVER!
Ouch. I didn't like the story either and I sometimes have a fairly large sensitivity blind spot, but even I think that that was harsh. Besides there are plenty of worse stories out there. Haven't you ever read a fanfic?

I now have an overwhelming urge to write the worst story ever. It will be horrible and fun at the same time and it will test the limits of my lolspeak fluency.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: ComicBookGoddess on October 03, 2009, 04:14:42 AM
What really creeped me out was that the protagonist was fully sentient, had free will, and was autonomous, but she had no rights and was at the mercy of her owner who could erase her memory at will.  And did she have any official duties besides sex?

Heh. I suppose it says something about me that I didn't even realize that this was an x-rated story as I was reading it.  I thought the sex and violence has a point - but maybe I just liked Grant Morrison's The Invisibles way too much.

In any case, as I read it for something like the 4th time, I realized that there's a deliberate echoing of personality here.  It's heavily implied that the owner has an unhealthy fascination with her sex doll, and the sex doll herself has an unhealthy fascination with a non-sex doll.  The aims are different, of course - the owner wants power over her doll, the doll wants to exercise the power of compassion - but that's due to different life experiences.  This implies that the owner had some control over the shaping of the sex doll's personality - whether by programming or simply as a parent would.  We don't know.

That's why it's important that we are hearing the inner monologue of the sex doll - this is her statement to her owner that she IS sentient, although in the eyes of the law - and likely in the eyes of her owner's psychologist - she is not fully sentient, but is only programmed to simulate sentience.

Of course, that idea is contradicted when the owner implies that she has to justify a memory wipe.  We don't know if she means that her sex doll has to show signs of malfunction just so that she doesn't have to pay for the wipe, or if the law offers some protection to the sex doll against unwarranted mind wipes.

In any case, there is meat here, amidst the cruelty and disturbing images. *shrug*
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Tzi on October 03, 2009, 06:53:25 PM
The story has no world-building, no clear "ta-da" resolution.  It forces the reader/listener to interpret the clues and the language in order to create a universe - in a way making the reader/listener a co-creator of the story - we add our own kinks and world view and experiences to make the story understandable to us.  Kiernan does not info-dump.  Her short fiction requires a lot from the reader - yes, she is not a comfortable writer at times, but her ability to create something that forces us to go beyond a surface story, is one of the reasons I seek out her work.  Sometimes I don't enjoy her writings, sometimes she disturbs me to such a degree that I am shaken for days, but she makes me think and confront my prejudices and preconceived ideas and question the ways in which I have been molded by my experiences.

This is a story about what makes one human.  Is it self-awareness, compassion, empathy?  The narrator had the ability to abuse a non-sentient doll, but chose to stop, to not continue the cycle of use/abuse.  Does this make her more human than her owner?  I think it does.

Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: 600south on October 04, 2009, 07:36:40 AM
I listened to this one after hearing the discussion on Sofanauts and I have to say, I thought it was pretty good. I seem to remember reading something by Caitlin R. Kiernan before and liking it, but I can't remember the name. I liked the surprise when I realized 'the owner' was a woman (if that wasn't revealed earlier and I missed it). Anyway, I love the darker stuff so please don't stop. A great creepy story with excellent narration.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: ChairmanWow on October 04, 2009, 03:39:25 PM
I liked the surprise when I realized 'the owner' was a woman (if that wasn't revealed earlier and I missed it).

I was surprised, too, and then berated myself for assuming. >_>


Anyway, great creepy story! I think this'll probably stick in my brain for a while. And in my opinion the internal monologuing and use of second person really pulls you in; it's not very comfortable, but it's effective. Like someone said earlier, it made me think about what I'd do if I was a character in this world.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: KenK on October 05, 2009, 06:02:34 PM
It'll stick in my mind too; but I don't mean that in a good way.  :'(

Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Bdoomed on October 06, 2009, 07:28:04 AM
I liked the surprise when I realized 'the owner' was a woman (if that wasn't revealed earlier and I missed it).

I was surprised, too, and then berated myself for assuming. >_>

i'll third this.  I even listened to it again and forgot that it was a female owner, and was a bit surprised again (tho not as much, more of an "oh yeah i forgot")

anyway I don't get all of the negative feedback here, I enjoyed it.  Maybe it would have been better received over at Pseudopod...
and great reading! :) I'd like to hear more from Kim the Comic Book Goddess!
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: stePH on October 06, 2009, 02:06:54 PM
Boring and pointless.  Also, the switches between scenes with the owner and scenes in the warehouse could have used more of a pause to separate them.

But I must say it was good to hear Eley again.  You're still the best at making pre-written intros and outros sound natural and unscripted, and thanks for not giving me three straight weeks of Sherman.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: monkeystuff on October 07, 2009, 03:12:40 AM
damn, its been a couple of days since i listened to this podcast and i still have that creepy doll song stuck in my head...
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: KenK on October 07, 2009, 11:43:26 PM
damn, its been a couple of days since i listened to this podcast and i still have that creepy doll song stuck in my head...

I guess we should take  listener warning advisories in the intros a little more seriously from now on. I know I will.   ;D
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: kibitzer on October 08, 2009, 07:54:13 AM
It must be my nationality or general ornery-ness or something -- I don't like the comic book goddess's readings. Every line sounds sarcastic to me. But then, I didn't like Larry's reading that everyone raved about, and... sorry folks, sacrilege I know... I'm no particular fan of Steve's readings either. Too clinical.

Remember, this is just my opinion and it's clearly out of step with the majority of the listeners. So readers, don't take it amiss. On the whole, I still think you're awesome for actually getting out there and reading to the big bad internet.

Oh yeah, the story. Ummm. Odd. Didn't hate it -- too jaded. Also didn't love it.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Carroll D on October 10, 2009, 01:18:29 AM
I guess I'm strange, but I loved this episode.  Not neccissarily the sex portion, but the way it was written.  The present, past, present style.  The way many people think, you're in the present, but always thinking about something that the present reminds you of.  I've listen to this episode 5 o 6 times in the last couple of days.  Besides Kim's voice does this story good.  I'm looking forward to reading or listening to something else by Catlin Kiernan
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Talia on October 10, 2009, 04:10:49 AM
The more criticisms I read of the story the more I realized there was plenty I did like about it. :) Add me to the list to be surprised the owner was a woman.

it was an interesting setup. I suspect there's more here than I gathered at a first listen and it may be worth listening to again.

Didn't care for the ending, I'm afraid. Left me kinda, "huh?" but overall, an interesting one. The bizzare sexual relationship between owner and.. sentient realdoll, or whatever.. was disturbing and fascinating.

Kibitzer: who's readings DO you like? :) (not sarcasm! Honest query. Everyone has different tastes and stuff. :).
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: cercle on October 10, 2009, 03:04:42 PM
Is EP losing it ? After last week's really afwul story, this one was even worse.  I got the impression this was so personal that it should never have been published.  Why does Steve have to explain who Katan Amano is ? The story itself should explain ! The only good thing about this one was that it was over.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Talia on October 10, 2009, 03:39:24 PM
Is EP losing it ? After last week's really afwul story, this one was even worse.  I got the impression this was so personal that it should never have been published.  Why does Steve have to explain who Katan Amano is ? The story itself should explain ! The only good thing about this one was that it was over.

Everyone has different tastes. Just because there are two you don't like in a row doesn't mean EP is "losing it." It just means there were two you didn't like in a row.

And I rather liked 'The Kindness of Strangers' myself. I am sorry you were discontent, but it happens sometimes. You really can't please everyone.

Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: MacArthurBug on October 12, 2009, 11:19:48 AM
Is EP losing it ? After last week's really afwul story, this one was even worse.  I got the impression this was so personal that it should never have been published.  Why does Steve have to explain who Katan Amano is ? The story itself should explain ! The only good thing about this one was that it was over.

Let me second Talia on this. There are some stories that don't "do it" for me. Usually they're well balenced by ones that do.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Gamercow on October 12, 2009, 06:53:57 PM
I think this is one of those stories that has laser-beam focus.  Its intended to strike that small niche of fans, and I imagine it does that quite well, and has a deep impact on them.  Unfortunately, I am not one of those fans, and the story seemed lost on me.  Some of it seemed forced, and partially seemed to me like it was just written to get a reaction from the readers/listeners. 3/10
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Cerebrilith on October 13, 2009, 02:53:47 PM
I found this story to be very affecting.  This artificial person, created to have feelings, has to reach out to someone even less human then herself in order to get her emotional needs met because the actual human she is forced to be with is so emotionally damaged.  It felt sadly beautiful to me.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: thomasowenm on October 13, 2009, 07:49:38 PM
Glad to hear Steve back if even for a brief appearance.  And I enjoyed The Comic Book Goddess's  reading, but she could not rescue this POS.   The story just didn't give a payoff.  It promised something would happen with Sanctuary at the end, and didn't give us anything, but a quick feel up her dress.

On the name Sanctuary did anybody else expect to see the sexbot look down at her hand and see a crystal that has turned black, and start running?
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Anarkey on October 13, 2009, 11:17:25 PM
Yay, Caitlín R. Kiernan.  Yay!  Love, love, love her and what a pleasant surprise to get her on EP instead of PP, where I would have expected her.  And even though I dislike stories about dolls on general principle, if a story about dolls was going to work for me, this is about the only way it would, reflected and refracted and recursive -- homage to PKD (and BladeRunner, I presume) with questions of identity and personhood woven into its heart.

And oh, the pretty, pretty, pretty prose.  I'd give my eyeteeth to write as prettily and simultaneously as creepily as CRK.  Poe's unity of effect flaunted like it's easy, like any idiot could do it.  And damn, it's not, and most idiots can't.   I find it breathtaking.  I'd say I was surprised there aren't more stylists among EP's listeners to appreciate her elegant technique, but actually I'd be lying because no...not all that surprised.  Everyone comes to the story well looking for a different drink, and I can't really blame people for not wanting what I want in a story.  Still, it does make one a little sad when something of deep, affecting beauty is disdained by others. 

My favorite readily available story by Caitlín R. Kiernan is "In the Dreamtime of Lady Resurrection (http://subterraneanpress.com/index.php/magazine/fall2007/fiction-in-the-dreamtime-of-lady-resurrection-by-caitlin-r-kiernan/)".  I highly recommend it to anyone who was put off by the X rating in this story but is still curious about her as well as to anyone who just would like to read something else by her relatively immediately. 

There's also the Ape story which won something at Clarkesworld but does nothing for me because it's about movies and everyone knows how I feel about movies  (see also "Impossible Dreams") and even the alternate universes and the funky time stuff and the gorgeous writing didn't save it for me.  But it could work for you.  Especially if you like movies.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Gamercow on October 15, 2009, 06:04:17 PM
Yay, Caitlín R. Kiernan. 

My favorite readily available story by Caitlín R. Kiernan is "In the Dreamtime of Lady Resurrection (http://subterraneanpress.com/index.php/magazine/fall2007/fiction-in-the-dreamtime-of-lady-resurrection-by-caitlin-r-kiernan/)".  I highly recommend it to anyone who was put off by the X rating in this story but is still curious about her as well as to anyone who just would like to read something else by her relatively immediately. 

Thank you for pointing me to this other story.  It confirms that CRK is not the author for me.  There's something about her writing for me that is offputting and irritating, and just rubs me the wrong way.  Just not my style, I suppose.   :-\
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Anarkey on October 16, 2009, 01:07:40 PM
Thank you for pointing me to this other story.  It confirms that CRK is not the author for me.  There's something about her writing for me that is offputting and irritating, and just rubs me the wrong way.  Just not my style, I suppose.   :-\

She may well be a writer's writer, or at least, a geeky English major's writer.  She's stylistically accomplished and there's lots and lots there for people interested in genre as "stories in close conversation with one another" (Bujold's def, not mine), but perhaps the accusations on this thread of a certain lack of action have some merit (but would not, actually, have the same merit as a critique of her novels, where plenty of stuff happens).  Hal Duncan goes the same direction, and he's certainly not for everybody. If stories are all about where you're going, and not so much about the ride and the conveyance, you'd be understandably frustrated with CRK, especially in short form.  That's why I referenced Poe (though one could also talk Lovecraft here).  She draws from that long tradition of story as atmosphere, and she executes it expertly and modernly, which is the piece you can't get if you go back to Poe and Lovecraft. 

Everyone's tastes are different, but I appreciate anyone who will try an author more than once to be sure.  :)  There are many highly acclaimed authors who do nothing for me, though I'm always like "Ok, maybe this story is the one that will speak to me, the one where I'll get it."  It's also, in my mind, the beauty of the short story, as a form.  It allows elasticity and experimentation for both authors and listeners/readers,  without the time commitment of a novel.   I like it as a way of sampling authors, which is why - though I get excited when the 'casts run authors I know and love - I also like it, and maybe even like it better, when they introduce me to someone I didn't know about.  I came to Greg Van Eekhout through Escape Pod, for example, and M K Hobson through Podcastle, and I love them both.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: natashafairweather on October 16, 2009, 09:18:22 PM
I found the story just so-so, although I do always enjoy Comic-book goddess' reading.  I was really surprised by the poor taste of the end quote, though. How condescending! Great song to end it all off, though.

Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: umbrellapod on October 16, 2009, 10:10:26 PM
I think I'm among the minority on this forum, but I really liked the story.  It is creepy, gross and very uncomfortable to listen to, but it made me think. 
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: gelee on October 19, 2009, 02:57:22 PM
That's why I referenced Poe (though one could also talk Lovecraft here).  She draws from that long tradition of story as atmosphere, and she executes it expertly and modernly, which is the piece you can't get if you go back to Poe and Lovecraft. 
Ah, so that's what I'm digging on this one.  See, this is why you always need an English major handy. 
I really loved this one, though I guess I'm late to the party.  The writing was scrumptious, and the sexual violence was handled perfectly, and that's really tough to do for me.  Reading was great, of course.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Jagash on October 20, 2009, 01:09:14 AM
I just listened to the story, bracing myself for what was described as being so perverted, disturbing and horrific.  Instead I received a beautifully well crafted tale of an android rising above her upbringing and not falling prey to the same destructive urges of her master.  While her life was horrific, the tale itself wasn't smashing my "horrific and disturbing" buttons quite as well as it seems it did other forumites,   It was well written and beautiful prose read by an excellent narrator and I appreciate it.

Thank you Steve in specific for introducing and analyzing this piece.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: eytanz on October 21, 2009, 10:12:00 PM
This was a difficult one for me. I thought the writing was great. And the story itself was extremely well-crafted and subtle. And it was totally, totally, wrong for an audio format. This is a story that needs to be read, not heard. There are many advantages to an audio story, but the format has its price - it doesn't allow the listener to take their own pace through the words, and enjoy for themselves. This story needed that. I kept having to pause it and think, which was extra difficult because I was listening while cooking. My iPod ended up rather greasy.

This isn't to disparage the reading, by the way - I thought the narrator did a commendable job. And I am thankful to EP for exposing me to this story. And I will seek out the anthology in which it was published. But I don't think the podcast did the story justice, even through it was clear everyone involved did their best.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Listener on October 22, 2009, 09:01:23 PM
Kim's readings are usually quite good. This one was.

I think the story tried to do too much in too small a space. I'd rather the story have been about the MC after she kills her mistress and then goes to the doll to do the thing that was the main part of the story. The feeling up of the doll was quite creepy and disturbing, and because I didn't know about Katan Amano and because this was a SF story I fully expected Sanctuary to be a robot/doll similar to the MC.

I don't understand why there needed to be the sex parts. Telling the MC to remove her face was plenty disturbing enough without her mistress also having sex with her in that state.

I love writing about sex, and as Nobilis says in the promo for his writing podcast (the name temporarily escapes me), "when I start writing about people they start having sex". I write erotica (not professionally... yet). I write stories about sex and relationships. But sometimes you can tell more by NOT showing what happened than by showing everything, and I think this story could've been sufficiently creepy and disturbing and still gotten its point across without the sex.

So, not one of my favorites.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: DarkKnightJRK on October 25, 2009, 07:02:17 PM
I liked this story--very well-crafted and moody. The "you" parts threw me off at first, but after a while I kind-of imagined it as the doll saying this to her owner, what she would say to her if she would ever listen to her as anything other then a talking sex toy. Kim's reading was also exquisite.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: wakela on November 02, 2009, 04:06:17 AM
Liked it. 
It left me with a lot to chew on.  Robots are the mother of all unreliable narrators.  For all we know she was programmed to feel violated and enslaved to satisfy the owner's fetish.  It seems the owner could have bought a robot who shared the same quirks if she had wanted.  It's possible the owner is a loving, decent partner to a human and pervs out on the robot the same way someone would beat up a blow up doll.  Of course there is not much in the story to support this, but when you tell a story from the robot's POV all bets are off. 

At the end the robot merely strokes the face of Sanctuary, while the human owner uses the robot's face for mockery.  The latter feels more disturbing than the former, but robot committed a violation, too.  She broke the law to access the sculpture without permission.  She didn't do any harm, but I wouldn't want her coming into my house and touching my things while I was away.  The robot violates a human being, the artist, while the robot's owner violates a thing, a possession.  And the writer gets us to think the first is beautiful and the second ugly. 

Maybe I'm reading to much into it, but the author lets me.  In Mike Resnik's stories the main human character decides at some point that the robot is a person, and the reader is expected to follow along.  But in this story no one makes such a decision, and it's left to us. 

By the way, a Google image search on "Katan Amano" is a gallery of EP forum member icons.  Win!
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Bdoomed on November 02, 2009, 04:55:23 AM
By the way, a Google image search on "Katan Amano" is a gallery of EP forum member icons.  Win!
ha it's true! win!
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Boggled Coriander on November 04, 2009, 03:43:16 AM
By the way, a Google image search on "Katan Amano" is a gallery of EP forum member icons.  Win!
ha it's true! win!

The five pictures that popped up automatically when I did a normal Google search on "Katan Amano", from left to right:

* Creepy doll.
* Creepy doll.
* Creepy doll.
* Composite image of several creepy dolls, and a skull that's got flowers sprouting from it.
* StePH's jar of salsa.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: CryptoMe on November 12, 2009, 09:15:27 PM
I don't understand why there needed to be the sex parts. Telling the MC to remove her face was plenty disturbing enough without her mistress also having sex with her in that state.

I too found the sex in this story to be gratuitous and unnecessary. I'm not opposed to sex in stories, it's just that, here it seemed to have little more than shock value. And this distracted me from the interesting points of the story, the ones that other posters here have mentioned, such as the sex doll rising above her experiences to become something better and more human than her owner. In my opinion, the gratuitous sex overshadowed these ideas. Without the forum input, these concepts were completely lost on me. And that is a real shame.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Planish on November 25, 2009, 02:18:02 AM
Odd. I listened to this one at least a week ago. I don't remember how it ended, and many of the plot details are fuzzy in my memory, but know that I pretty much enjoyed it. I liked the moods it evoked, I guess.

Maybe I'm just having a senior moment.  ;)
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Unblinking on April 28, 2010, 01:54:43 PM
Hmmm...
I mostly didn't like this one.  It had a solid writing style and I can see what Anarkey says about conveying mood, but in a newer style.  But mood has to go with some actual plot movement for me to generally be happy.  Maybe it's just because I like Poe's now antiquated style, but I'm rarely dissatisfied by a Poe story.

Ode to Katan Amano--not a great title.  I doubt I'm alone in having no idea who this guy is until hearing the outro.  The best titles give me some expectation, whether that expectation is filled or not, and give some foreshadowing.  But since the name is unfamiliar, it was just a non-entity.

I also thought the "you" was male, shame on me I suppose.  But did it ever actually say that it was a female?  I know there was a strap-on dildo, but I'm not sure that rules out a male, particularly if he's more interested in dominance than sexual pleasure, which was not out of the question considering the "you"'s treatment of the narrator.  Maybe he's hypocrtically disgusted by actually touching the doll with his member, and so uses a strap-on as a form of disdain.  Unless I missed other clues, the sex of the "you" character is still undefined to me.

This is a rare case where 2nd person narration didn't bother me.  The one's that really bother me are the ones that just simply replace 1st or 3rd with 2nd without any reason for it, and it just comes off as someone trying to tell me what I've done and should already remember.  Maybe you could call this the "generic" you where it's not supposed to be talking about any entity in particular, and that entity should already know the story.

In this case, the "you" was targeted at a specific person, the owner of the doll.  And there was a reason for telling the story to you.  The doll will likely never get a chance to tell her owner any of this, but she is composing in her head like it's a journal entry aimed at this other person, maybe even an internal logbook.  The other person seems to be unaware of this doll's point of view, so it's told as though explaining that point of view so another could understand it.

But, the reason it all fell flat is that it all just felt emotionally manipulative.  I mean, the stories I like best are the ones that make me feel some kind of emotion, and I realize that the artist wrote the story to have this effect, so in some ways the writer is like a puppeteer, tugging on the emotional centers of my brain.  But sometimes, the curtain falls away and I can see the strings being pulled and it just ruins the magic.  Instead of feeling anger, I note "The author wants me to be angry now," and that doesn't work for me. 
For me it's the difference between the Resnick stories that I love (Barnaby in Exile) and the Resnick stories that I don't (Robots Don't Cry).  It's the difference between feeling an emotion and knowing that I'm supposed to feel an emotion.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Unblinking on April 28, 2010, 02:42:01 PM
When mentioned that there was an obvious song to fit this, I also expected Coin-Operated Boy by Dresden Dolls, since the story was about a sex doll, and dolls from Dresden were specifically mentioned. 

But I really like Coulton in general, and the Creepy Doll song in particular, so I ain't complaining.  :)
"Do you really need that much honey?"
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Scattercat on April 28, 2010, 04:55:23 PM
The Coin-Operated Boy doesn't turn on you and try to kill you, though...
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Unblinking on April 28, 2010, 05:07:49 PM
The Coin-Operated Boy doesn't turn on you and try to kill you, though...

Is that what the doll was planning in this story?  I somehow missed that.  I thought she just continued the chain of dominance by molesting the powerless doll, and then convinced herself she was a good person because she stopped the molestation.

Anyway, the Coulton creepy doll doesn't try to kill anyone either, it just nags about the honey:tea ratio.  :)
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Scattercat on April 28, 2010, 05:41:15 PM
And then traps you in the box with the fire when you try to destroy it...
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Unblinking on April 28, 2010, 06:28:46 PM
And then traps you in the box with the fire when you try to destroy it...

I thought that the doll IS you, like a voodoo doll.  Your fiery demise is no one's fault but your own.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Scattercat on April 28, 2010, 10:33:47 PM
I think taunting someone into a course of action you know to be unwise counts for some degree of culpability...
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Unblinking on April 29, 2010, 01:30:10 PM
I think taunting someone into a course of action you know to be unwise counts for some degree of culpability...

I don't know that "Do you really need that much honey?" was meant to drive him to throw the doll into the fire.  Annoying, yes.  Malicious, not so much.  :)

And even if it was malicious intent, the doll is, again, also him, so it's more suicide than murder.
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Scattercat on April 29, 2010, 09:36:01 PM
Well, it's been following him EVERYWHERE since he got the box, remember.  "There's a creepy doll/that always follows you," etc.  Being haunted by something creepy would get on one's nerves.  I mean, it's not like:

"Oh, hi.  Wow, that's a lot of honey." 
"GET IN THE BOX AND BURN!"

I think the doll wanted him to do it so he could burn.  Or at least the crazy protag of the song thought the doll was taunting him...
Title: Re: EP218: Ode To Katan Amano
Post by: Unblinking on April 30, 2010, 01:26:19 PM
Well, it's been following him EVERYWHERE since he got the box, remember.  "There's a creepy doll/that always follows you," etc.  Being haunted by something creepy would get on one's nerves.  I mean, it's not like:

"Oh, hi.  Wow, that's a lot of honey." 
"GET IN THE BOX AND BURN!"

I think the doll wanted him to do it so he could burn.  Or at least the crazy protag of the song thought the doll was taunting him...

It's a doll with no knowledge of human social boundaries.  I know some people who act like that in real life, but I'm assuming they don't want me to burn.  Or maybe they do!  (In any case, we may be overanalyzing  ;) )