Escape Artists
Escape Pod => About Escape Pod => Topic started by: Super_Dork_42 on September 17, 2010, 06:40:55 AM
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I certainly do. My pattern has to only download the PG or G rated ones unless 1) they are Union Dues, or 2) They have descriptions that make me go, "Wait, I HAVE to listen to that, if only to find out what 'innuendo-heavy snack cake desire' means." Anybody else?
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Actually, and this is perfect because we've been meaning to publicize it more, there are currently feeds for both G and PG:
feed://escapepod.org/category/podcasts/rated-g/feed/
feed://escapepod.org/category/podcasts/rated-pg/feed/
We should probably set up a combined feed and put it more clearly on the blog, but just pointing out that these exist already for parents/people who don't like the higher ratings.
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Feeds based on rating sounds like a much better solution. Calling something "classic" when it was actually "bowdlerised" made me frown.
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Calling something "classic" when it was actually "bowdlerised" made me frown.
[fb] Stephen Karnas likes this. [/fb]
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Feeds based on rating sounds like a much better solution. Calling something "classic" when it was actually "bowdlerised" made me frown.
I think that rating-based feeds is a great idea! "Classic" really doesn't quite fit, does it? However "bowdlerised" implies that something was removed or editted in some way to "clean them up", but the stories were produced as they were written and not censored in any way. Regardless, I'll stick to the main feed and self-filter.
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The stories that were left in the feed were unaltered in content, yes. But entire stories were expurgated from the "classic" feed based on their content. That's why I think the word fits.
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The stories that were left in the feed were unaltered in content, yes. But entire stories were expurgated from the "classic" feed based on their content. That's why I think the word fits.
The classic feed was also rebroadcasting old episodes, which made it 'classic'. Obviously there's a non-trivial segment of our audience that for various reasons doesn't want to get the PG-13 and R (and X) rated episodes. I don't think it's a horrible thing to have a separate feed for them, especially as it's not like we're censoring the main feed. We ran Spar, and I'm sure we'll run stories like that that are explicit or hard to listen to or just difficult because of the subject matter in the future. Going out of our way to make sure that there was a feed with a story every week for that segment that doesn't like the more adult content wasn't a bad call, and I wouldn't rule out bringing back EP Classic.
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I don't see what that has to do with what I said. They can have their expurgated feed, and it's no skin off my nose. I didn't disparage that some people want that. But it is censored and bowdlerised nonetheless.
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I don't see what that has to do with what I said. They can have their expurgated feed, and it's no skin off my nose. I didn't disparage that some people want that. But it is censored and bowdlerised nonetheless.
Well, A. I was saying that the Classic bit had a point, and I'm not sure bowdlerize means what you think it means. Last dictionary I checked said that with that word it meant that the censorship made the product lesser, and I don't think having a G/PG version of the 'cast necessarily does that. I don't think the 'cast is a less effective or weaker when the stories are G/PG. It's different, with slightly fewer rough edges and more generally kid-friendly. Which we try to be, at times anyway.
And for the record, there are feeds for just the higher ratings, so are those also censored of all the fluffy inoffensive content?
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Censored, yes. Bowdlerized, no.
Censorship is not always a bad thing. Electing not to say or publish certain things is a form of speech.
I would have to agree that "Classic" is a terrible descriptor. Reminds me of back when Magic had "Type 1" and "Type 2" and so on.
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The EP episode my kids loved the most was definitely not PG rated. (cant find) The one where Steve was the intelligent dog, and he dropped quite a few f bombs. The kids, being dog lovers, found this hilarious.
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Well, A. I was saying that the Classic bit had a point, and I'm not sure bowdlerize means what you think it means. Last dictionary I checked said that with that word it meant that the censorship made the product lesser
Right, well, it seems like you're arguing simply for the sake of arguing, so I'll leave you to it, with a helpful definition:
bowd·ler·ize
/ˈboʊdləˌraɪz, ˈbaʊd-/ Show Spelled[bohd-luh-rahyz, boud-] Show IPA
–verb (used with object), -ized, -iz·ing.
to expurgate (a written work) by removing or modifying passages considered vulgar or objectionable.
Anyway, refer to my previous posts to see that you're answering objections that I never raised. Have fun!
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You are actually allowed to teach your kids the difference between good and evil. I think its required, actually.
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Well, A. I was saying that the Classic bit had a point, and I'm not sure bowdlerize means what you think it means. Last dictionary I checked said that with that word it meant that the censorship made the product lesser
Right, well, it seems like you're arguing simply for the sake of arguing, so I'll leave you to it, with a helpful definition:
bowd·ler·ize
/ˈboʊdləˌraɪz, ˈbaʊd-/ Show Spelled[bohd-luh-rahyz, boud-] Show IPA
–verb (used with object), -ized, -iz·ing.
to expurgate (a written work) by removing or modifying passages considered vulgar or objectionable.
Anyway, refer to my previous posts to see that you're answering objections that I never raised. Have fun!
Well, I think you did bring it up, and I think there's a distinction between censorship and bowdlerizing that matters. Bowdlerize comes from an edition of Shakespeare published back in the early 1800s that was meant to be good for women and children and really just ended up being fairly bad (I'd say something about Victorians, but I think it actually predated Victoria's reign by a decade or two). I mean, it was still Shakespeare, but Ophelia drowned entirely by accident, it was "Out Crimson Spot", and any mention or flavoring of language by way of sex or sexuality was expunged (http://departments.oxy.edu/library/geninfo/collections/special/bannedbooks/censoredworks.htm#othello). The dictionary (New Oxford American) I use distinguishes it from plain censorship by the fact that it does become weaker or less effective, and it would be hard for any adult to conclude that the plays were improved at all by the censorship. So technically, in order for us to be bowdlerizing EP, we'd have to be taking, say, Spar, and then editing it down to a version of Spar for Kids (and the womenfolk, because lord knows we must protect their delicate sensibilities from the perversity of men's mind. What, no, I've never met Mr. Kij Johnson (http://www.kijjohnson.com/bio.html), why do you ask?1).
Anyway, the important point is that we're not doing that, and we wouldn't do that. Making it so there's a feed so that parents trying to distract the kids in the backseat don't have to worry about skipping over an R-rated episode while going 60 down the highway isn't bowdlerizing, it's being helpful. And yes, it may be censorship of a sort, but being as Wordpress sets up feeds for every tag2 we use on the blog (Voila, the Union Dues feed: feed://escapepod.org/tag/jeffrey-derego/feed/ ), I'm not really sure I want to call it that either.
The EP episode my kids loved the most was definitely not PG rated. (cant find) The one where Steve was the intelligent dog, and he dropped quite a few f bombs. The kids, being dog lovers, found this hilarious.
EP169 (http://escapepod.org/2008/08/01/ep169-how-i-mounted-goldie-saved-my-partner-lori-and-sniffed-out-the-peoples-justice/): How I Mounted Goldie, Saved My Partner Lori, and Sniffed Out The People’s Justice.
1There's actually some interesting research from the last few years which points to the editing of the Family Shakespeare as being done by Thomas Bowlder's sister. It was then published under his name because it would have, apparently, blow people's minds that a woman understood all those references to naughty things. And probably would have made her unmarriageable, instead of just misguided.
2 Note: The tagging is still a work in progress. For example, the Tim Pratt tag only captures two of the nine stories Escape Pod has run.
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If your only objection to my use of the word "bowdlerise" is that your dictionary defines it with a specific connotation of lesser quality, and you choose not to accept that I use different dictionaries that define it more broadly, then please mentally replace it with the other word I used ("expurgate") to avoid the misunderstanding.
Hopefully an encyclopaedic entry on the origin of "flogging a dead horse" will not be necessary, as I will not be attempting to correct any of your other misinterpretations of my motives or stance. It's all up there for anyone to see. I'm not going to rebut any more challenges to statements I didn't make.
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Okay, since I was the one who initially brought up the issue, I will put it to rest. I initially just wanted to clarify to the general audience that Escape Pod had never altered the work of an author in any way, for propriety sake, or any other reason. I think that has been done by everyone involved, semantics aside.
I think everyone agrees that rating-based (tag-based) feeds are a good idea and better than referring to it as "classic".
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Okay, since I was the one who initially brought up the issue, I will put it to rest. I initially just wanted to clarify to the general audience that Escape Pod had never altered the work of an author in any way, for propriety sake, or any other reason. I think that has been done by everyone involved, semantics aside.
I think everyone agrees that rating-based (tag-based) feeds are a good idea and better than referring to it as "classic".
Can't speak for everyone, but I'd rather have a classic feed where you read the old SF classics from the 40s, 50s, etc. and called that EP classic.
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Actually, and this is perfect because we've been meaning to publicize it more, there are currently feeds for both G and PG:
feed://escapepod.org/category/podcasts/rated-g/feed/
feed://escapepod.org/category/podcasts/rated-pg/feed/
*That* is a useful piece of knowledge -while there are of course differences in people's standards, sometimes it's nice to throw a story on in the car, and it can't always be one I've listened to previously.
Can't speak for everyone, but I'd rather have a classic feed where you read the old SF classics from the 40s, 50s, etc. and called that EP classic.
Assuming you could work through the rights issues, this would be awesome.
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I agree with the above poster.