Wheres Heroes???!!!!! >:( Thats SF! and one of the greatest shows of all time... next to 24 of course. :P
Farscape = loved it from the start. A++ would watch again. My god the final ep (peacekeeper wars does not exist!!!! yes I'm one of them) made me scream at the TV. When the announcer said that it really was the final ep... grrrrWait, wait, how can you not accept the Peacekeeper Wars as canon?
The X-Files = I loved it in the begining and watched it as I grew up. towards the end it was more out of loyalty that actually liking the show though...
Is Lost Science Fiction? I've never heard it referred to as such.
Is Lost Science Fiction? I've never heard it referred to as such.
It has mysterious electromagnetic stations (possibly capable of destroying the world, though that's still unproven), black smoky chain things that seem to materialize and dematerialize, a kid with probable psychic abilities, a precognitive man, sequences of numbers that alter fate, and dreams and visions with demonstrated prophetic consequences.
What would you call it?
That show my friends keep bitching has lost it's way?Is Lost Science Fiction? I've never heard it referred to as such.
It has mysterious electromagnetic stations (possibly capable of destroying the world, though that's still unproven), black smoky chain things that seem to materialize and dematerialize, a kid with probable psychic abilities, a precognitive man, sequences of numbers that alter fate, and dreams and visions with demonstrated prophetic consequences.
What would you call it?
Is Lost Science Fiction? I've never heard it referred to as such.
It has mysterious electromagnetic stations (possibly capable of destroying the world, though that's still unproven), black smoky chain things that seem to materialize and dematerialize, a kid with probable psychic abilities, a precognitive man, sequences of numbers that alter fate, and dreams and visions with demonstrated prophetic consequences.
What would you call it?
I'm pleased to see "Batman" getting it's due. I assume we're referring to The Animated Series, which is some of the best television I've ever seen.
Oh, and Seaquest is a case study in how to take a fairly decent show, and completely ruin it with a few simple changes.
As -- seemingly -- the only person to vote for Lost so far, I'm prepared to stand up and defend it.
If there's some flaw that bugs you, I'll have a go at justifying it.
The only real flaw that bugs me is that the first half of this season was ridiculously slow paced. Too much time with only three main characters in the enemy base, which quickly became boringly mundane, and not nearly enough time spent on everybody else.
As -- seemingly -- the only person to vote for Lost so far, I'm prepared to stand up and defend it.
If there's some flaw that bugs you, I'll have a go at justifying it.
This may require another thread...
Star Trek - let's be honest, it's the Lord of The Rings for TV sci-fi - sure it sucks lately, but that's the cooks, not the recipe.
As for the other Vulcans, yeah, but I guess how different can Vulcans get from eachother? :P
I never did see the lizards episode but I've heard it was pretty bad. Still, overall I thought the series was excellent and I miss it. Maybe its because I happily overlook any technical glitches and plot holes unless they are too huge to ignore. :P And I loved the finale, also. Part of it is I've always been one to watch TV/movies/etc more for the emotional aspect of it then the technical, so that probably affects alot :P
I would take exception with the statement that Odo was a copy of Spock. I found him quite different. Odo could be brusque but it was brusqueness born of emotion rather than lack of emotion. As for the other Vulcans, yeah, but I guess how different can Vulcans get from eachother? :P
Odo wasn't a copy exactly, it was just another version of the same thing. He wasn't emotionless but he was a loner - at first anyway. His job was to show us what it was to be human by becoming more human. I confess that I didn;t see all of DS9, not because I didn;t like it, but because my local station moved it all over the frickin' place. I did see the finale and I had the exact opposite response that I did from voyager's (Wow! I wish I had seen the whole series!)
Also, TOS wasn't about the characters. It was about telling a story that you couldn't get away with telling without changing the context to something otherworldly. Sorry, I can't remember the names of individual episodes, but the episode with the men who were black one side and white on the other was about racism, for example. Every week, they went to a new planet, had a new adventure and we were all wiser because of it. The other series did less of that, but I doubt that would fly today anyway.
I think the jury is out on Lost until we know if they stringing us along and making it up as they go (a'la Twin Peaks?), or is there really a coherent begining-middle-end plot arc? Is there really something huge and mysterious going on or will there be a mundane explanation? If they come up with everyday explanations for everything that happens then the whole show is nothing but an extended Scoopy-Do episode with some grownup soap opera window dressing tossed it. If they go the other way it might be one of the best SF shows ever.
I am one of the people who learned to hate voyager. The reason is that it started out well, with a good premise. It had a group of very interesting characters (ok neelix was annoying at times), but around the end of the first full season, the plots started to get really dumb. I remember watching every episode, really loving it at first, then watching it go downhill until the "warp 10" episode (where the two characters go off and become lizards and have babies) and then thinking "Well, that's enough for me."
Geez, you guys have almost convinced me to watch the Warp 10 episode just because it's soooooooo bad. ;D
Odo wasn't a copy exactly, it was just another version of the same thing. He wasn't emotionless but he was a loner - at first anyway. His job was to show us what it was to be human by becoming more human. I confess that I didn;t see all of DS9, not because I didn;t like it, but because my local station moved it all over the frickin' place. I did see the finale and I had the exact opposite response that I did from voyager's (Wow! I wish I had seen the whole series!)
Also, TOS wasn't about the characters. It was about telling a story that you couldn't get away with telling without changing the context to something otherworldly. Sorry, I can't remember the names of individual episodes, but the episode with the men who were black one side and white on the other was about racism, for example. Every week, they went to a new planet, had a new adventure and we were all wiser because of it. The other series did less of that, but I doubt that would fly today anyway.
I can see what you're saying. I think that particular archetype goes beyond sci fi though.. the alienated individual who slowly becomes more human, etc, etc. And its a popular construct. People like it when that happens. I know I do.
And I know what you mean about TOS, im figuring that out for myself as I watch it (im about 2/3rds the way through season 1). The acting is iffy and of course the effects and makeup are laughable, but the plots frequently touch on all kinds of issues that are still relevant today. Good stuff.
(although I'm currently working my way through TOS and liking it too)I warn you that the episode "Spock's Brain" (season 3) is as bad as Voyager's "Warp 10".
Also, TOS wasn't about the characters.That's not true - yes, there were episodes like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield (half black/half white) but there were also shows like Shore Leave, the aforementioned Amok Time. It's the relationship between the Big Three that is a good part behind the longevity of the series.
And I know what you mean about TOS, im figuring that out for myself as I watch it (im about 2/3rds the way through season 1). The acting is iffy and of course the effects and makeup are laughable, but the plots frequently touch on all kinds of issues that are still relevant today. Good stuff.I'm guessing you've never seen a lot of the old Doctor Who's. Oh overturned trash can with a plunger, how I feared ye.
So am I correct in concluding that you are watching Star Trek the original series for the first time?
Wow.
I envy you.
I'm guessing you've never seen a lot of the old Doctor Who's. Oh overturned trash can with a plunger, how I feared ye.
(although I'm currently working my way through TOS and liking it too)I warn you that the episode "Spock's Brain" (season 3) is as bad as Voyager's "Warp 10".Quote from: ClintMemoAlso, TOS wasn't about the characters.That's not true - yes, there were episodes like Let That Be Your Last Battlefield (half black/half white) but there were also shows like Shore Leave, the aforementioned Amok Time. It's the relationship between the Big Three that is a good part behind the longevity of the series.
Nope, thats another show i've seen absolutely nothing of. :P Cheesy special effects i'm familiar with tho
/Red Dwarf and HHGTTG, anyone? ;)
As for the other Vulcans, yeah, but I guess how different can Vulcans get from eachother? :P
Monolithic alien cultures is a major flaw in the Trek universe. Where are the Vulcan jocks and Klingon interior decorators?
My unofficial official barrier for entry is that they have to have finished their first season. Which is why Eureka's there and Heros isn't.Then what is Firefly doing there on the list? ;)
:)
I getting flashes of a Klingon version of "Queer Eye for the Straigh Guy".
Technically, Firefly did finish the first season - being cancelled pretty much finishes the season.My unofficial official barrier for entry is that they have to have finished their first season. Which is why Eureka's there and Heros isn't.Then what is Firefly doing there on the list? ;)
*runs and hides*
This is going out on a limb, but I'm going to say that Stargate is my pick for the best TV SF show....I'm not sure I would go that far, but it a good show and with the addition of Ben and Claudia (from Farscape) it became quite fun and enjoyable.
This is going out on a limb, but I'm going to say that Stargate is my pick for the best TV SF show.
-Dunks and hides-
Please note I didn't say it was the best SF ever produced, just that it was the best SF TV show. I look to TV for entertainment and I think Stargate had the most consistant entertainment value. The production values were good, without ever having SPFX over power other areas of the show. The the cannon plotline is convoluted to the extreme and often downright silly if you stopped to think about it, but the writing was clever, and the writers were obviously confortable and familiar with the characters (Unlike say, Enterprise where the writers seemed they had never heard of the Trek Universe). The show has the right balance of humor and seriousness, but never takes it's self too seriously. There was great on screen cast chemistry, (something that just happens and can't be forced), and good casting of small character parts (I think second only to X-files in the genre).
All this makes great entertainment, it's just fun to watch the show, and it does what I want a TV show to do; take me away from the 9-5 grind of the real world.
Admiration, SG-1 deserves,
but as a TV show, I liked it until two main characters were gotten ridden of. Dr. Daniel Jackson, and Colonel O'Neil. They were great characters and good actors (O'Neil is Richard Dean Anderson's character).
Someone mentioned the X-Files a while back, so I thought I'd drop this in....
During the last couple of seasons, when it became obvious that they were getting drowned in their own ongoing story arc, I think they had an opportunity to continue the show with Dogget and Reyes, but they missed the boat. What I think they should have done was to continue the series but with no overall story arc - let that go with Scully and Mulder - and just have self contained episodes with a set formula (for lack of a better term). Reyes was the believer and Dogget was the skeptic. Each week, they would be presented with some weird crime that looked like something paranormal was going on. Sometimes there would be, sometimes there wouldn't be and sometimes it would leave it ambiguous, but you never knew until the final scene. With good writing, acting, etc...they could have continued this for a long time. I mean, how long has CSI been on now and then generally have two crimes per episode and never leave Las Vegas.
Someone mentioned the X-Files a while back, so I thought I'd drop this in....
During the last couple of seasons, when it became obvious that they were getting drowned in their own ongoing story arc, I think they had an opportunity to continue the show with Dogget and Reyes, but they missed the boat. What I think they should have done was to continue the series but with no overall story arc - let that go with Scully and Mulder - and just have self contained episodes with a set formula (for lack of a better term). Reyes was the believer and Dogget was the skeptic. Each week, they would be presented with some weird crime that looked like something paranormal was going on. Sometimes there would be, sometimes there wouldn't be and sometimes it would leave it ambiguous, but you never knew until the final scene. With good writing, acting, etc...they could have continued this for a long time. I mean, how long has CSI been on now and then generally have two crimes per episode and never leave Las Vegas.
I don't know; IMHO part of the reason the xfiles was so wonderful was the characters of Mulder and Scully themselves and the particular chemistry they had. I don't think it could have been at all recaptured in a Dogget/Reyes team up (although I liked Dogget as well). I'm not sure if the continued loyalty of the rabid Xfiles fandom would be enough to let it continue :P (although I'll confess I probably would have watched it as well, for a little while anyway).
Someone mentioned the X-Files a while back, so I thought I'd drop this in....
During the last couple of seasons, when it became obvious that they were getting drowned in their own ongoing story arc, I think they had an opportunity to continue the show with Dogget and Reyes, but they missed the boat. What I think they should have done was to continue the series but with no overall story arc - let that go with Scully and Mulder - and just have self contained episodes with a set formula (for lack of a better term). Reyes was the believer and Dogget was the skeptic. Each week, they would be presented with some weird crime that looked like something paranormal was going on. Sometimes there would be, sometimes there wouldn't be and sometimes it would leave it ambiguous, but you never knew until the final scene. With good writing, acting, etc...they could have continued this for a long time. I mean, how long has CSI been on now and then generally have two crimes per episode and never leave Las Vegas.
I don't know; IMHO part of the reason the xfiles was so wonderful was the characters of Mulder and Scully themselves and the particular chemistry they had. I don't think it could have been at all recaptured in a Dogget/Reyes team up (although I liked Dogget as well). I'm not sure if the continued loyalty of the rabid Xfiles fandom would be enough to let it continue :P (although I'll confess I probably would have watched it as well, for a little while anyway).
The X-files fans were so devote, that I think they would have given any new "couple" a few episodes to get in their groove. If the writers came up with a good hook, the show probably would have been able to continue.
The interesting thing about the show was that with all of it's popularity, it really didn't get copied. There wasn't really another choice. Before everyone points out how wrong that statement is, compare it to Law & Order. There were three L&O on the air at one time (or was it four) and then you also had three or four CSI shows.
Someone mentioned the X-Files a while back, so I thought I'd drop this in....
During the last couple of seasons, when it became obvious that they were getting drowned in their own ongoing story arc, I think they had an opportunity to continue the show with Dogget and Reyes, but they missed the boat. What I think they should have done was to continue the series but with no overall story arc - let that go with Scully and Mulder - and just have self contained episodes with a set formula (for lack of a better term). Reyes was the believer and Dogget was the skeptic. Each week, they would be presented with some weird crime that looked like something paranormal was going on. Sometimes there would be, sometimes there wouldn't be and sometimes it would leave it ambiguous, but you never knew until the final scene. With good writing, acting, etc...they could have continued this for a long time. I mean, how long has CSI been on now and then generally have two crimes per episode and never leave Las Vegas.
I don't know; IMHO part of the reason the xfiles was so wonderful was the characters of Mulder and Scully themselves and the particular chemistry they had. I don't think it could have been at all recaptured in a Dogget/Reyes team up (although I liked Dogget as well). I'm not sure if the continued loyalty of the rabid Xfiles fandom would be enough to let it continue :P (although I'll confess I probably would have watched it as well, for a little while anyway).
The X-files fans were so devote, that I think they would have given any new "couple" a few episodes to get in their groove. If the writers came up with a good hook, the show probably would have been able to continue.
The interesting thing about the show was that with all of it's popularity, it really didn't get copied. There wasn't really another choice. Before everyone points out how wrong that statement is, compare it to Law & Order. There were three L&O on the air at one time (or was it four) and then you also had three or four CSI shows.
The x-files never got franchised like CSI and L&O, but I remember there being several shows that tried to copy it and all of them getting canceled quickly. (Don't ask me to remember the titles.) Isn't there one on sci-fi right now?
I think the reason Fox never franchised it was that it was serialized - CSI and L&O are not, AFAIK. Also, consider that CSI has been in the top 10 in the ratings ever week it has been shown. I'll bet the X-Files only made it into the top 10 maybe a handful of times in it's entire existence - if ever. I'm also not sure if Fox has a thing against franchising. They could easily franchise "24." You wouldn't even have to have it be fighting terrorists in another city. The hook of 24 is the real-time aspect. You could easily have 24 in a hospital emergency room, 24 in a firehouse, 24 in a police precinct. Hell, 24 at a 7/11 if you did t right. :P
Yeah, I know what you mean - cookie cutter drama. Comedies are bad about that, too. It seems like all comedies have the wacky neighbor, for example.Oh, I know. I totally hate it when Shakespeare kept shoving in that whole wise deus-ex-machina king/prince archetype into every fraking comedy he wrote. I could stand it in Much Ado About Nothing, and it was tolerable in The Merchant of Venice, but he totally ruined Measure for Measure* with it.
Missing option: "Space: Above and Beyond". Just rewatching it again: still flawed, still excellent.
Merciful Heavens. My four choices were in the top five.
I must be getting ... mainstream.
Eeuw.
Merciful Heavens. My four choices were in the top five.
I must be getting ... mainstream.
Eeuw.
We're talking television here. The whole medium is mainstream. That's the point of it.
I have a hard time seeing things like "The Venture Brothers" or "Drawn together" as mainstream.
Of course, I also remember when there was only 3 networks, 5 stations and shows used to advertise as being "In Color!"
TV has a lot more niche programs than it did way back when. I think at some point, there will be so much variety of entertainment content that the idea of something being mainstream will be lost.
I just thought of another classic series, Time Tunnel. I think it was a mid 1960's show. I loved how despite the fact that they had no control over where they travelling in time they ended always ended up in some historically significant event.
My theory is that hockey and soccer both have the same problem - they suck on TV.I can never pass this kind of comment, sorry. It's not the sport, it's the audience. I enjoy soccer very much on TV, and without knowing the teams I can pretty easily pick out English League play vs Italian or German League. It's a shame that the understanding of the game is not cultivated in the US, and HDTV won't really help IMHO. It's often said that it's because Football and Basketball are "quick hit" sports and Americans don't have the attention span - that's garbage - it's because, plain and simple, the grow up on those sports. The only people I've met from the States who play soccer after high school are those that played on University teams.
Quote from: ClintMemoMy theory is that hockey and soccer both have the same problem - they suck on TV.I can never pass this kind of comment, sorry. It's not the sport, it's the audience. I enjoy soccer very much on TV, and without knowing the teams I can pretty easily pick out English League play vs Italian or German League. It's a shame that the understanding of the game is not cultivated in the US, and HDTV won't really help IMHO. It's often said that it's because Football and Basketball are "quick hit" sports and Americans don't have the attention span - that's garbage - it's because, plain and simple, the grow up on those sports. The only people I've met from the States who play soccer after high school are those that played on University teams.
My 2 cents about TV - it's definitely on the way out. Niche markets, cheap, easy production cost, and cheap, easy distribution through the internet (check out http://www.newvoyages.com/). And, yes, they like Superbowl, etc. it's easy to sell the ad space. But when a medium sized audience is considered a giant hit (think Desperate Housewives), you know the writing is on the wall.
Trying to keep it on the thread - anyone have a favourite sport scene from a sci-fi show?
Reminds me of that awesome feeling when I pull of an amazing play on the field that was totally intended.
It sounds to me like we agree.
I've recently returned to Canada after living in Indianapolis for 3 years, and the soccer program there was HUGE. I've coached my three kids soccer teams for years, and was pleased to see so much participation. However, as much as the kids play, very few of their parents understood the game or had any interest about it. Soccer was the filler sport - it's cheap, fairly safe and kept them fit for B-Ball or the "real" Football. Exactly as you said, once they hit high school it was the school soccer team or pretty much nothing. So it's no surprise the kid's interest in the sport (even as a spectator) disappears. I was part of a weekly pick-up game and 75-85% of all the players were foreign-born/raised or first-gen.
Having David Beckham play for the LA Galaxy is not going to help in the long run. The man is more popular/well-known than Shaquille O'Neil, Peyton Manning, and A-Rod combined. His jersey sales account for a large percentage Real Madrid's (his former club) merchandising. And there will be a bump (like when Pele playing in New York) in interest while he is here, but after he leaves, it will go back to moderate interest.
Trying to keep it on the thread - anyone have a favourite sport scene from a sci-fi show?
For me it would be ST:Voyager, Capt Janeway playing 7 of 9 in some futuristic squash/raquetball thing, and 7 of 9 keeps saying stuff like "I'm so much better, it is pointless for you to play." Then Janeway pulls off this amazing return and scores. 7 of 9 says "There is no way you did that on purpose." And Janeway replies, "Actually, this is what I was thinking when I did it..."
Reminds me of that awesome feeling when I pull of an amazing play on the field that was totally intended.
...will tempt you to come back and try playing again. I'm convinced that golf was invented by Satan.LOL. I agree - personally, I've been able to horribly fail consistantly enough that I am no longer tempted :)
Having David Beckham play for the LA Galaxy is not going to help in the long run. The man is more popular/well-known than Shaquille O'Neil, Peyton Manning, and A-Rod combined. His jersey sales account for a large percentage Real Madrid's (his former club) merchandising. And there will be a bump (like when Pele playing in New York) in interest while he is here, but after he leaves, it will go back to moderate interest.I've been a pretty steady MLS watcher since their inaugural season. Go Revs! One of the best moves that MLS made to get ready for this year is to partner with the German footbal league who will teach the MLS guys how to position the camera, how to light the fiely properly, how to shoot from multiple angles, to better portray the game on television. We might even get to see a couple of good exhibition matches between the good German clubs and the US teams. I think having a high profile player like David Beckham on someone's roster will be a good start and might attract some better international players to the game here in the states. The first couple of years we drew mostly from South and Central America and out play was very much like what you'd see from the Argentine, Mexican, or Venezualan clubs (all of which you can see on Spanish Language Cable). But as more Europeans are drawn to MLS that will change. I don't know if it will draw more fans, but it will certainly make for better and more varied football play.
I've been a pretty steady MLS watcher...Maybe we should start a new thread...
...my explaination...Preach on, brother! I have the same opinion. People will pay big money to see big talent - hence the bump for Pele and the already visble bump for Beckham. People will not pay big money to see nobodies (or even regular money). So if you want me to show up, make it cheap. Once I'm hooked...
Quote from: Russell Nash...my explaination...Preach on, brother! I have the same opinion. People will pay big money to see big talent - hence the bump for Pele and the already visble bump for Beckham. People will not pay big money to see nobodies (or even regular money). So if you want me to show up, make it cheap. Once I'm hooked...
I'd vote for "Gary Seven" but I'm pretty sure that only aired in universe parallel to this one...Well, I think there was a reason the "Star Trek" pilot didn't materialize as a series in this universe - it was bad ;)
Is Lost Science Fiction? I've never heard it referred to as such.
A lot of it felt forced. though a large part of that was because the previous season ended on a cliffhanger, I'll admit that. The happy ending was always going to happen.The Farscape series finale was "Into the Lion's Den, part 2". As far as I'm concerned, that was it, even if that does leave the third season an episode short.
I probably disliked it because it was an ending too though... I was a bigfan... and I wanted it to increase above the crap of season 4... >_> and I thought it would get back on track again; if it was given the chance.
The resolutions felt forced though; as there was no other way that peace could be done without threatening everyone in the universe... and as a method of keeping hte peace I dislike it as a core idea... but yeah it was so they would stop chasing himand such too...
I dunno. I just didn't like it as much as the rest of the series... even season 4... but its my personal opinion... I'm tired I can't express myself well... I'm gonig to bed... up early and such for work.
On a tangent (can't remember whether I've mentioned this on these boards or not) I've watched the first DVD of Firefly and I'm underwhelmed. The concept and setting are interesting enough but I don't really like any of the characters.
On a tangent (can't remember whether I've mentioned this on these boards or not) I've watched the first DVD of Firefly and I'm underwhelmed. The concept and setting are interesting enough but I don't really like any of the characters.
I don't really get all the excitement about Firefly. I've never seen the series, but I've never liked anything else Joss Wheadon has done, so didn't feel any need to seek it out. I got through about 20 minutes of Serenity and changed the channel. It just felt like a rip-off mish mash of Star Trek (all) and Star Wars (original trilogy).
Speaking of bad SF, I am a huge fan of MST3K. Absolutely loved it.
I also had to scratch my head a bit at the absence of Futurama. Maybe the best series that Groening and Cohen have made so far.
MST3K was awesome. I have a bunch of homemade VHS tapes that I still watch once in a while. I lived in the Twin Cities for a number of years and at first thought it was just locally broadcast because of the all the local references. Who did you guys like better- Joel or Mike?I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned somewhere around here before, but Cinematic Titanic (http://cinematictitanic.com/wpmu/index.php) has released it's first DVD and is working on the next few.