Escape Artists

PodCastle => Episode Comments => Topic started by: Talia on January 18, 2011, 04:49:09 PM

Title: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Talia on January 18, 2011, 04:49:09 PM
PodCastle 140: Terrible Ones (http://podcastle.org/2011/01/18/podcastle-140-terrible-ones)

by Tim Pratt. (http://www.timpratt.org/)

Read by M.K. Hobson. (http://www.demimonde.com)

Originally appeared in The Third Alternative.

Someone coughed, and Zara opened her eyes and lifted her head. “Holy shit,” she said.

The Greek Chorus was back—when had they gotten on the train? They must have come from another car, creeping quietly, sliding open the adjoining doors without a squeak. Or, more likely, Zara had fallen asleep, and just hadn’t noticed them. They stood in the middle of the aisle, holding onto the grabrail above their heads, though there were any number of empty seats. They all stared at her, silently, swaying a little with the movement of the train.

Zara thought about getting up and going to another car, but what if they followed her? “This had better be a coincidence,” she said. “We just happen to be going in the same direction, right? You aren’t following me, are you?”

The Chorus did not answer, just looked at her. “So, what are you, mimes? You were plenty talkative before. Or are you just frat boys?”

Still no response.

Zara snapped open her purse (black vinyl, decorated with little silvery skulls) and rummaged until she found a mostly used-up tube of lip balm. She held it between her thumb and forefinger, took aim, and threw it at one of the Chorus member’s faces.

The tube bounced off his nose, and he squawked like a bird and flinched away.

“Just fuck off,” Zara said.

“We’ve heard things,” the Chorus said, hesitantly, half of them mumbling, none of them quite in synch. “But only from strangers. Those who carry messages have no power.”

“So you’ve got a message for me, then?” Zara said. “What is this, guerilla marketing? Viral advertising? How much do you get paid?”

“Torrents of blood will fall from the sky. Justice brings new pain; on a fresh whetstone, Fate sharpens her sword. Each charge is countered by another, and who can fairly judge between them? Yet whoever acts must be punished. Such is the law.”

“The only law you should be concerned with is the one against pissing me off,” Zara said. “If you don’t get away from me, I’m going to kick your asses, concurrently or sequentially, whichever you prefer.”

The Chorus member in front, the one she’d hit with her lip balm, said, “Go on. My heart trembles with fear.”


Rated R for: sex, language and violence.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: iamafish on January 19, 2011, 12:07:09 PM
Very fun.

However, as someone who has studied Greek Tragedy extensively, I couldn't stop myself from drawing comparisons between the way in which this story is told and the in which a Greek tragedy works. With that in mind, the entrance of the Chorus in Greek tragedy almost always happens after the first scene, rather than directly at the beginning of the play.

But I think I can let that slide because, as a fan of Greek tragedy, and indeed all things Greek, this story pressed all the right buttons. Flawed characters, Godly appearances (I could go into the distinction between Sophocles and Euripides and how this is not reflected perfectly in the story in that point, but i wont), vengeance, moral ambiguity. I especially liked the modern portrayal of the Furies and the occasional light-hearted nod at greek mythology (I actually laughed out load at the Oedipus line).

I think I'll need to listen to this one a couple of times to really get my head around it all though.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: ElectricPaladin on January 19, 2011, 02:29:45 PM
This one amused the ever-loving crap out of me. I'm a fan of urban fantasy, stylish and intense characters, slightly absurd situations, ordinary people struggling against undercurrents of the occult (and, relatedly, all-powerful assholes who get more than they're bargaining for), divine beings living incognito in the modern world, and the San Francisco Bay Area, and this story had all of those, and more. This story made me laugh, howl, scream (angrily, at Doug), and talk excitedly to my wife. The only thing that could have made this story more awesome would be if the Airship Adventures zeppelin had somehow gotten involved... but we can't have everything.

And then we'd have an argument about whether or not this story is steampunk.

Not bitter. Not bitter at all.

Anyway, I'm not sure the story would have made sense with the addition of Airship Adventures, and as the crit group is constantly reminding me, making sense is a good thing.

It's 6:22 AM when I am now and I'm a little confused. I was trying to make a point. Where was I again?

Right, Terrible Ones. Excuse me. Anyway, I also loved M. K. Hobson's reading, but then I always love M. K. Hobson's readings. Her voice has that perfect combination of acid sarcasm and hard-edged urban yrgh (6:22 AM) that really works for some stories - and yet, she can also soften her voice for some lines and deliver a totally different effect when required. I think if M. K. Hobson and Wilson Fowlie had a baby and that baby was raised by Cheyenne Wright, that child would have the most expressive, flexible, and buttery voice in the universe. Dave Thompson could do his introductions and then he could read Tim Pratt stories and the world would fall at his feet.

What the hell was that? Seriously, Paladin, what the hell was that? You know what? 6:22 AM is no excuse. It's time to stop this post before someone gets hurt. Besides, it's 6:28 AM now.

I give this story yrgh out of five zeppelins, which probably means six and a half or so. And I apologize to Wilson Fowlie, M. K. Hobson, and Cheyenne Wright (who's plenty busy with his actual child) and all of their children and spouses, now and in perpetuity. Not Dave Thompson, though - he had it coming.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: DKT on January 19, 2011, 05:10:16 PM
I think if M. K. Hobson and Wilson Fowlie had a baby and that baby was raised by Cheyenne Wright, that child would have the most expressive, flexible, and buttery voice in the universe. Dave Thompson could do his introductions and then he could read Tim Pratt stories and the world would fall at his feet.

Wait...I'm the love child of Hobson and Fowlie, and Cheyenne Wright is my Jedi Master?

And the world would fall at my feet?

Well...we've all gotta have goals, I guess  :D
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: ElectricPaladin on January 19, 2011, 05:13:59 PM
I think if M. K. Hobson and Wilson Fowlie had a baby and that baby was raised by Cheyenne Wright, that child would have the most expressive, flexible, and buttery voice in the universe. Dave Thompson could do his introductions and then he could read Tim Pratt stories and the world would fall at his feet.

Wait...I'm the love child of Hobson and Fowlie, and Cheyenne Wright is my Jedi Master?

And the world would fall at my feet?

Well...we've all gotta have goals, I guess  :D

No, no. You're their love child's announcer. Sort of Elijah to his Messiah. I guess if the world falls at his feet and you're standing next to him, though, that counts for something.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: DKT on January 19, 2011, 05:15:05 PM
Ah, I wondered if I should've clarified that pronoun.

But I like being the prophet even better! Where do I sign up?  ;D
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: ElectricPaladin on January 19, 2011, 05:21:40 PM
Ah, I wondered if I should've clarified that pronoun.

But I like being the prophet even better! Where do I sign up?  ;D

It's a done deal, man. All you gotta do is get M. K. and Wilson to get busy. The rest will fall into place. Trust me.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Scattercat on January 20, 2011, 07:46:57 AM
I think that curse at the end is a lot more terrible than she makes it sound.  She's not taking stories away from him; she's taking away self-delusion, which is the near-magical power we have that lets us stay alive.  Humans couldn't get through a day without rearranging their interpretation of events (sometimes down to the level of actually physically perceiving them differently) in order to maintain our central illusions.  (To whit: "I am in control of myself," "I am competent," and "I am a good person.")  To lose the ability to lie to yourself, to see everything as it truly is... I can't think of a quicker way to cause a suicide.

There have been studies.  People take a knowledge test or a skill test or a memory test, and they are asked to rate how well they think they will do and then how well they think they've done afterward.  You know who's most accurate in judging their own skills?

Clinically depressed people.

Frankly, I think a significant chunk of the population wouldn't regard losing the ability to enjoy narrative as much of a penalty.  There are people who never even read fiction because it's a "waste of time."  In particular, I imagine that borderline schizos like the dude in the story don't really do a lot of recreational reading anyway (unless they are looking for encoded messages from the author.)

It was a fun story, regardless.  Nyx is a scary lady.  My wife made a character based on her for a roleplaying game once, and that is what convinced me that she was terrifying, even more than the myths themselves.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Ocicat on January 20, 2011, 08:50:31 AM
This reminded me a lot of Neil Gaiman's Sandman comics, and that's a good thing.  I mean, obviously they both used "The Kindly Ones" in a modern fantasy setting - but the tone and themes are pretty similar too.  The world is just slightly off-kilter, there's the same focus on the concept of Story, and humans becoming new incarnations of immortal concepts, and Neil often splashed in a smattering of kink in his comics as well.

So ya, to me this read as almost a Sandman tribute - but as I said, that's a good thing.  I loved those books, and there's plenty of ground to cover there in different ways.  And this story was a beautiful thing.  Of course I'm a sucker for Greek myths and tragedy, so that helped too. 

Also, I used to live near San Francisco, and I think I used to visit the club Madame Zara worked for.  It's called Bondage-a-go-go. 
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: iamafish on January 20, 2011, 09:04:53 AM
I found the punishment meted out to Doug to be really horrible. As both a story teller and someone who loves stories, I found the idea of loosing one's suspension of disbelief to be a truly terrifying thing. I hadn't thought of it in the terms Scattercat put it until he did, but that adds an even deeper level of horror to it. Seems like a fate almost worse than death.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Void Munashii on January 20, 2011, 04:04:18 PM
  I remember enough Greek tragedy from Introduction to Theatre in school to enjoy the chorus, but I never studied enough of it to be able to find any real flaws, so I enjoyed this story immensely. If there is any type of fantasy I really like, it is urban fantasy, and this was an example of urban fantasy done right.

  I like the idea of Zara as the spirit of vengeance, wandering the Earth and turning her spotlight on those who can't tell what's real. She should book a flight to Washington DC; that lot would keep her busy for weeks.


I found the punishment meted out to Doug to be really horrible. As both a story teller and someone who loves stories, I found the idea of loosing one's suspension of disbelief to be a truly terrifying thing. I hadn't thought of it in the terms Scattercat put it until he did, but that adds an even deeper level of horror to it. Seems like a fate almost worse than death.

  I too had not thought of it at Scattercat's level, but I found it horrifying enough just at the idea of not getting to enjoy fiction ever again. I can see useful parts of never being able to be deceived, but if I could not enjoy a story, a movie, or a video game ever again I am not sure how I would be able to cope with that. Of course not being able to deceive myself would probably lead to a quick and messy end to it all.

  I don't think I've ever seen that particular curse used in fiction before, but it is a nasty one.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: DKT on January 20, 2011, 04:32:21 PM
I found the punishment meted out to Doug to be really horrible. As both a story teller and someone who loves stories, I found the idea of loosing one's suspension of disbelief to be a truly terrifying thing. I hadn't thought of it in the terms Scattercat put it until he did, but that adds an even deeper level of horror to it. Seems like a fate almost worse than death.

Ocicat mentioned that this story reminded him of Gaiman's Sandman. For me, the curse in particular reminded me of "Caliope," in which (SPOILERS) Richard Madoc, a writer who wants to make a name for himself, traps the titular muse, rapes her, and sees all his numerous stories rocket him to fortune and glory. At the end, Morpheus curses him to never stop having ideas, which drives Madoc insane.

I found Zara's curse to be an interesting contrast to Morpheus's.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Kaa on January 20, 2011, 06:19:46 PM
This clenches it. I must now find and read everything Tim Pratt has ever written. I severely loved this story.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Talia on January 20, 2011, 06:39:09 PM
severely loved

Awesome turn of phrase.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: timpratt on January 20, 2011, 09:11:22 PM
As iamafish astutely notes, I took some liberties with the structure of Greek tragedy (and mythology, and other things). Partly for mere convenience, partly for other reasons. (For instance: ancient Greeks didn't wear togas, they wore chitons, but I had the Chorus wear togas because that's what people in a cheap and not terribly well-researched experimental theater performance would be more likely to have them wear.)
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Unblinking on January 21, 2011, 02:39:40 PM
I enjoyed this one.  The anthropomorphic personfications gave it a Pratchetty feel.  I tend to like "a god in the modern world" stories.  I am not particularly well versed in details of Greek mythology or theater, so I'm sure I missed a lot of the nods, such as the Greek chorus being an element that just made me shrug. 

That curse at the end is a terrible one indeed, for the inability to enjoy fiction, as that is the way that I unwind, but also as scattercat said about self-illusionment--a quick route to suicide.  If he does survive, he certainly could find some new career opportunities as a detective, a mediator, a judge, or any other vocation that would be enhanced by an innate ability to spot lies.

One detail that I found particularly cool was how the frozen audience wasn't literally time frozen, but trembled a bit from the effort of holding the pose.  That was a neat idea and would be one that would be cool to see in film, distinct from the usual spec fx version where the video is just frozen.  Having her compare it to an improv acting session made sense for her character, too, which is a nice touch.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Loz on January 21, 2011, 07:36:43 PM
I'm just wondering. Admittedly all I know about The Fates, like some of the people here, is what I've gleaned from their use in modern fictional settings, so is the idea that if they make a mistake and punish someone unfairly (or even have the freedom to attack and punish someone unfairly) they lose their job something that comes from the Greek myths or is it an invention of Mr Pratt?

Otherwise great story and great reading. Just the thing to keep my spirits high while walking the cold streets from work to home. And if Nikki is taking applications I've got a bucket full of wrath right here for people who don't return their library books on time or scratch the DVDs or who don't understand the concepts of 'opening' and 'closing' times...
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: stePH on January 21, 2011, 09:32:27 PM
mmmmmm.... me likey.  :)
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: stePH on January 21, 2011, 09:35:48 PM
I think that curse at the end is a lot more terrible than she makes it sound.  She's not taking stories away from him; she's taking away self-delusion, which is the near-magical power we have that lets us stay alive.  Humans couldn't get through a day without rearranging their interpretation of events (sometimes down to the level of actually physically perceiving them differently) in order to maintain our central illusions.  (To whit: "I am in control of myself," "I am competent," and "I am a good person.")  To lose the ability to lie to yourself, to see everything as it truly is... I can't think of a quicker way to cause a suicide.

Like others here, I was also reminded of The Sandman, but specifically the scene at the "Cereal Convention" in which Morpheus does exactly this to the serial killers. I don't have the book in front of me, but he said something like "You have seen yourselves as misunderstood heroes... I have taken all the dreams from you. From now on, you will know exactly who and what you are. And how little that means."
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: kibitzer on January 22, 2011, 11:10:32 AM
Ah, crap. I don't get it. I really don't. Guess I'm the only one to think this story was kinda dull and uninteresting. Gaiman's Kindly Ones is way, way more interesting and affecting.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: stePH on January 22, 2011, 03:56:21 PM
Ah, crap. I don't get it. I really don't. Guess I'm the only one to think this story was kinda dull and uninteresting. Gaiman's Kindly Ones is way, way more interesting and affecting.

At least this story didn't have an irritating visual style  :P
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Mister Freign on January 22, 2011, 11:37:57 PM
I was surprised to enjoy it. 

It has so many elements I customarily despise: cutesy revivals of classical myth, similar in more than 1 or 2 ways to another widely known story (see above re: Sandman), probabilities-stretched-thin to place characters within dialogue-range of one another, and it's a Tim Pratt story.  WTF?  I guess I have to make this a proviso now when I rag on Mr Pratt.  Argh!  Curses!  >:(

Yeah, you read me right, Pratt!  Enough with the cutesy! 
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: kibitzer on January 23, 2011, 07:40:24 AM
At least this story didn't have an irritating visual style  :P

That's definitely a plus. :-)
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: hoyajon on January 24, 2011, 01:08:26 PM
This has the makings of a story worth pursuing further.  Zara has a bright future, and the world is her stage.

I would like to see Zara meet Morpheus.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: stePH on January 24, 2011, 04:29:52 PM
At least this story didn't have an irritating visual style  :P

That's definitely a plus. :-)

Were you also less-than-delighted with the art in The Kindly Ones? Because I seem to be in a vanishingly small minority there.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Rain on January 24, 2011, 05:23:37 PM
Tim Pratt is my favorite Escape Artists writer, and so i am sorry to say that i didnt not like this story at all.

Reading some of the comments i think it is based on a play? Beyond the mention in the introduction i really dont know what a greek chorus is, or who any of the other mythological characters were supposed to be.

It would probably help if i knew all of this, but as it is this story felt like the middle part of a play, and it felt like there was a lot missing for this to be a complete story.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: tinygaia on January 24, 2011, 05:52:24 PM
I've got a bucket full of wrath right here for people who don't return their library books on time or scratch the DVDs or who don't understand the concepts of 'opening' and 'closing' times...

I’m with Loz on this one. We’ll need an especially devious punishment for the patrons who check out the brand new books the day after you’ve spent tedious hours processing them, only to lose them before you’ve even washed the book glue off your hands, condemning you to repeat the entire purchasing and processing routine again.

I enjoyed this story. From the moment Zara steps outside and finds a Greek chorus of all things, I wanted to see where Pratt was going with this. I love the line, “Go on. My heart trembles with fear.” The words hit my ears and magically transformed into “Bring it.” I couldn’t stop laughing.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: kibitzer on January 25, 2011, 01:59:20 AM
Were you also less-than-delighted with the art in The Kindly Ones? Because I seem to be in a vanishingly small minority there.

I can't recall in which particular volumes of Sandman this happens, but I do remember thinking a lot of the story art was pretty average.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Rhio2k on January 25, 2011, 02:19:42 AM
Um...pronunciation seems to be a problem here as it was in a previous story set in Japan, with the word "kitsune" (Keet-su-neh, not kit-soon). In every greek name I've heard for a woman that ended with "one", the last part was pronounced "ehnee/uhnee", not "oan".  Persephone would be "Per-CE-fuh-nee". Thisiphone (or whatever the name is, I couldn't quite make it out) would be pronounced Thi-SI-fuh-nee.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Max e^{i pi} on January 26, 2011, 07:47:45 PM
I am not a student of the classics, although I have read my fair share of them. So I'm not going to nitpick that.
Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed this story. I found myself completely immersed in the story's world, following the players with open-mouthed wonder. I had to literally shake myself when the theme music came back on at the end.
That is the mark of a wonderful story.
Also the idea of Furry being a bad-assed punk girl with a penchant for showing people that they are idiots appeals to me.
Even if she just plays at being a bad-ass over the summer.

And I realize that I just gave Tim my second glowing praise in 10 minutes.
Yes, he is that great. Also this might be a good time (since I see that he's on the thread) to mention that I really enjoyed his playful romp at the center of the multiverse in his serialized novel The Nex. If you haven't read it yet, you owe it to yourself to go check it out. (It's completed now, but I've been following it from the beginning, waiting for each Monday with baited breath and anticipation. Never have I appreciated Mondays like that before, or since.)

One last thing, would it be really cool to have a Greek chorus flash-mob?
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: iamafish on January 26, 2011, 10:34:33 PM
Um...pronunciation seems to be a problem here as it was in a previous story set in Japan, with the word "kitsune" (Keet-su-neh, not kit-soon). In every greek name I've heard for a woman that ended with "one", the last part was pronounced "ehnee/uhnee", not "oan".  Persephone would be "Per-CE-fuh-nee". Thisiphone (or whatever the name is, I couldn't quite make it out) would be pronounced Thi-SI-fuh-nee.

I meant to comment on the pronunciation, then forgot. This is entirely correct. 'e's at the end of words in Greek are not silent. Antigone, Persephone, Penelope, Thisiphone, etc. should all be pronounced as above.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: stePH on January 26, 2011, 10:38:03 PM
I meant to comment on the pronunciation, then forgot. This is entirely correct. 'e's at the end of words in Greek are not silent. Antigone, Persephone, Penelope, Thisiphone, etc. should all be pronounced as above.

I like to pronounce "Penelope" like it rhymes with "antelope".
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: iamafish on January 26, 2011, 10:40:16 PM
QC has ruined that name for me as well
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Wilson Fowlie on January 27, 2011, 03:47:21 AM
There's a Canadian theatre series that takes place in the fictional setting of ultra-rural Persephone township.  The protagonist moves there, pronouncing it correctly ("Per-SEH-fuh-nee") and discovers that the denizens call it "PER-se-fohn".
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: iamafish on January 27, 2011, 03:56:30 AM
There's a Canadian theatre series that takes place in the fictional setting of ultra-rural Persephone township.  The protagonist moves there, pronouncing it correctly ("Per-SEH-fuh-nee") and discovers that the denizens call it "PER-se-fohn".

understandable, I mean they are American*.

*Disclaimer: this statement was designed to be as offensive to as many people on this forum as possible.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: blueeyeddevil on January 27, 2011, 11:48:05 AM
QC has ruined that name for me as well

Actually, I think that joke got made first in 'club dread' but I'm sure Jeph would be happy to know he's done lasting damage.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Unblinking on January 27, 2011, 02:28:48 PM
There's a Canadian theatre series that takes place in the fictional setting of ultra-rural Persephone township.  The protagonist moves there, pronouncing it correctly ("Per-SEH-fuh-nee") and discovers that the denizens call it "PER-se-fohn".

I don't think that's all that rare for a town name's pronunciation to change like that.  For example, Pierre is the capital of South Dakota, and it looks like the French name pronounce something like "Pee-yair".  But if you pronounce it that way in SD you will be marking yourself as someone from out-of-state because the town's name is a single syllable and sounds like "peer".
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Unblinking on January 27, 2011, 02:29:15 PM
One last thing, would it be really cool to have a Greek chorus flash-mob?

Where do I sign up?
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: yicheng on January 27, 2011, 04:51:51 PM
A shot in the dark, here:  But, why does it seem like Strong Female Protagonist, almost always equates to her being Pissed-off/Annoyed for most of the story? 
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: DKT on January 27, 2011, 04:56:57 PM
I'm confused. Are you talking about PC stories, or stories in general?
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Talia on January 27, 2011, 05:06:55 PM
A shot in the dark, here:  But, why does it seem like Strong Female Protagonist, almost always equates to her being Pissed-off/Annoyed for most of the story? 

I think that's the way things are sometimes percieved, but I don't really feel that's accurate. I've read plenty of stories with female protagonists who I'd define as strong, but who weren't angry.

What about, say, the protagonist of Cat Rambo's 'Sugar?' she had issues but I felt she was strong. Or the girl from 'Kingspeaker'? (that might be a better example).
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Unblinking on January 27, 2011, 05:14:59 PM
A shot in the dark, here:  But, why does it seem like Strong Female Protagonist, almost always equates to her being Pissed-off/Annoyed for most of the story? 

I think that's the way things are sometimes percieved, but I don't really feel that's accurate. I've read plenty of stories with female protagonists who I'd define as strong, but who weren't angry.

What about, say, the protagonist of Cat Rambo's 'Sugar?' she had issues but I felt she was strong. Or the girl from 'Kingspeaker'? (that might be a better example).

I agree with Talia.  There are plenty of examples of strong females that are not pissed off for the whole story.  I think it may just seem that way because willingness to speak up when wronged is a form of strength and one which makes itself immediately visible.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: yicheng on January 27, 2011, 05:28:47 PM
Yes, I admit, after reviewing the past Podcastle stories, the Pissed-off Female Protagonist (Songdogs, Dead Languages, KachiKachi Yama -- I know, I know, it's EP, ) motif may just be more memorable to me.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Wilson Fowlie on January 27, 2011, 11:21:08 PM
There's a Canadian theatre series that takes place in the fictional setting of ultra-rural Persephone township.  The protagonist moves there, pronouncing it correctly ("Per-SEH-fuh-nee") and discovers that the denizens call it "PER-se-fohn".

understandable, I mean they are American*.

Well, no, they're rural Canadians, somewhere north and (I've always assumed) a little west of Toronto.

*Disclaimer: this statement was designed to be as offensive to as many people on this forum as possible.

Was the above mistake actually not a mistake but meant to be part of the offence?  Just curious.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: iamafish on January 28, 2011, 06:14:45 AM
that was the idea, yes. I was not only saying that all Americans are stupid, I was also calling Canadians Americans, so I was basically pissing off all the North American forumites, and I'm sure any Mexicans would be annoyed at being left out...
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: soapturtle on February 04, 2011, 09:41:19 PM
I really enjoyed this.  Without going into specifics, it amused me and I came away with a smile.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: ElectricPaladin on February 04, 2011, 09:54:29 PM
I really enjoyed this.  Without going into specifics, it amused me and I came away with a smile.

Dude, going into specifics is what the forums are for. Tell us all about it.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Unblinking on February 07, 2011, 05:05:08 PM
I really enjoyed this.  Without going into specifics, it amused me and I came away with a smile.

Dude, going into specifics is what the forums are for. Tell us all about it.

Yes, please!  Don't worry about spoiling the story here.  If someone's worried about spoilers then they shouldn't be in that story's feedback thread.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Listener on February 09, 2011, 02:22:18 AM
I enjoyed the story, although I felt it was somewhat overwritten in places and, while Zara's sideline as a BDSM club mistress gave Doug a reason to come after her, it felt slightly forced. Also, the scene with Nikki, Zara, and the Fates felt very, very long.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: LaShawn on March 10, 2011, 05:23:29 PM
First of all before I respond to anything...

Tim Pratt is my favorite Escape Artists writer, and so i am sorry to say that i didnt not like this story at all. Reading some of the comments i think it is based on a play? Beyond the mention in the introduction i really dont know what a greek chorus is, or who any of the other mythological characters were supposed to be.

Rain. Honey. Stop what you're doing right now. Go to your iPod and order up some Greek classics. Oedipus Rex. The Illiad. The Odyssey. And don't get the namsy pansy twentieth century updates. Go old school. Go way old school and get the original text. I don't care how...start with Wikipedia and look up "Greek chorus" and go from there. But please, *learn* what the Greek classics was about. Even Aesops Fables.

<rant>
MY GOD, WHAT ARE THEY TEACHING KIDS IN SCHOOLS THESE DAYS THAT THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW GREEK MYTHS AT ALL?!?!
</rant>

Okay, I can continue on. This was a good story and I enjoyed it, but for some reason, I found myself far more interested in the Furies than I was in Zara. It tickled me that the Furies lived in San Franscico and occassionally got muddled enough to live in other people's houses before realizing they were in the wrong place. I wanted to see this story from *their* point of view. I wanted to follow their story from beginning to end. I wanted to see them deal with the fall-out of no longer being furies, and coming to terms of their mortality. Would they be happy? Sad? Befuddled?

Don't get me wrong, I liked this story; I just want to see it from another angle.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: ElectricPaladin on March 10, 2011, 05:26:18 PM
I really enjoyed this.  Without going into specifics, it amused me and I came away with a smile.

Dude, going into specifics is what the forums are for. Tell us all about it.

Yes, please!  Don't worry about spoiling the story here.  If someone's worried about spoilers then they shouldn't be in that story's feedback thread.

He's totally one of Mistress Zara's other clients.

Come on, dude. It's nothing to be ashamed of.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: iamafish on March 10, 2011, 09:59:11 PM
First of all before I respond to anything...

Tim Pratt is my favorite Escape Artists writer, and so i am sorry to say that i didnt not like this story at all. Reading some of the comments i think it is based on a play? Beyond the mention in the introduction i really dont know what a greek chorus is, or who any of the other mythological characters were supposed to be.

Rain. Honey. Stop what you're doing right now. Go to your iPod and order up some Greek classics. Oedipus Rex. The Illiad. The Odyssey. And don't get the namsy pansy twentieth century updates. Go old school. Go way old school and get the original text. I don't care how...start with Wikipedia and look up "Greek chorus" and go from there. But please, *learn* what the Greek classics was about. Even Aesops Fables.

<rant>
MY GOD, WHAT ARE THEY TEACHING KIDS IN SCHOOLS THESE DAYS THAT THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW GREEK MYTHS AT ALL?!?!
</rant>

this.

Reading Greek Tragedy is actually awesome. Translation mean that it's a hell of a lot easier than Shakespeare, although Aeschylus is still pretty tough at times. Epic is a little denser though. More people should definitely read up on Greek Literature though. Or see some modern reproductions of the plays, although some of those are pretty ordinary.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Unblinking on March 11, 2011, 02:25:21 PM

Reading Greek Tragedy is actually awesome. Translation mean that it's a hell of a lot easier than Shakespeare, although Aeschylus is still pretty tough at times. Epic is a little denser though. More people should definitely read up on Greek Literature though. Or see some modern reproductions of the plays, although some of those are pretty ordinary.

A lot of the readability of such a Greek Tragedy depends a LOT on who translated it.  I read both the Iliad and the Odyssey a few years ago, back to back, but each with different translators (I hadn't realized that when I bought them).  One was extremely difficult to read, seeming never to really flow in English, but the other one flowed very nicely.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: iamafish on March 11, 2011, 11:26:30 PM
Even with a good translation, epic can be very dense. Lots of very repetitive fight sequences, long tangential stories within the narrative itself, allusions to mythology and tradition that takes a lot of prior knowledge to understand.

Plays tend to be less dense in this regard. The Choral passages get a bit odd sometimes, but they're usually fairly short.

Translation is key, though. Can you remember which translations you read?
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Unblinking on March 14, 2011, 01:22:46 PM
Even with a good translation, epic can be very dense. Lots of very repetitive fight sequences, long tangential stories within the narrative itself, allusions to mythology and tradition that takes a lot of prior knowledge to understand.

Plays tend to be less dense in this regard. The Choral passages get a bit odd sometimes, but they're usually fairly short.

Translation is key, though. Can you remember which translations you read?

I don't remember off the top of my head, but I still have both books.  The one thing that I do remember is that the names were spelled very differently between the two, to the point where I wasn't entirely certain which were recurring characters.

Also, I was a little surprised that the Iliad didn't mention the Trojan Horse--what story does that happen in?
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: eytanz on March 14, 2011, 02:20:49 PM
Also, I was a little surprised that the Iliad didn't mention the Trojan Horse--what story does that happen in?


That depends what you mean - I think they're quite a few sources for it in Greek writing, but if you're just talking about epics, I think it's only in the Aeneid.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Unblinking on March 14, 2011, 04:50:58 PM
Also, I was a little surprised that the Iliad didn't mention the Trojan Horse--what story does that happen in?


That depends what you mean - I think they're quite a few sources for it in Greek writing, but if you're just talking about epics, I think it's only in the Aeneid.

Ah, okay.  I didn't read that one, just the Iliad and the Odyssey.  I'd always thought the Trojan Horse was in the Iliad.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: kibitzer on March 15, 2011, 01:37:42 AM
I'd always thought the Trojan Horse was in the Iliad.

Trojan Horse -- there was a Horse? I always thought it was the Trojan Rabbit.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: ElectricPaladin on March 15, 2011, 01:40:29 AM
I'd always thought the Trojan Horse was in the Iliad.

Trojan Horse -- there was a Horse? I always thought it was the Trojan Rabbit.

Dude, we've been over this:

TROJAN Horse.

ROGER Rabbit.

NOT the other way around.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Scattercat on March 15, 2011, 02:24:24 AM
Trojan Rabbit.  Playboy Bunny?
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: FireTurtle on March 15, 2011, 02:40:32 AM

(http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/grail/large/HolyGrail067.jpg)
This.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: iamafish on March 15, 2011, 04:07:12 AM
*puts in faux french accent*

I fart in your general direction

Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Max e^{i pi} on March 15, 2011, 07:45:48 AM
I'd always thought the Trojan Horse was in the Iliad.

Trojan Horse -- there was a Horse? I always thought it was the Trojan Rabbit.

Dude, we've been over this:

TROJAN Horse.

ROGER Rabbit.

NOT the other way around.

You mean, the Trojan war wasn't fought because Paris kidnapped Jessica Rabbit?
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Unblinking on March 15, 2011, 01:29:55 PM
I'd always thought the Trojan Horse was in the Iliad.

Trojan Horse -- there was a Horse? I always thought it was the Trojan Rabbit.

Dude, we've been over this:

TROJAN Horse.

ROGER Rabbit.

NOT the other way around.

You mean, the Trojan war wasn't fought because Paris kidnapped Jessica Rabbit?

Nah, Paris Hilton's into little dogs, not rabbits.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: stePH on March 19, 2011, 07:45:32 PM
I'd always thought the Trojan Horse was in the Iliad.

Is that where we get the phrase "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"?

...because I think a better lesson would be "Beware of gifts bearing Greeks."
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: kibitzer on March 21, 2011, 01:24:53 AM
Is that where we get the phrase "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts"?

...because I think a better lesson would be "Beware of gifts bearing Greeks."

Not bad! Gave me a good chuckle.
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Gamercow on March 21, 2011, 08:31:23 PM
I'm here!
...
...
Oh, no one was sent to fetchez le vache?  Oh well. 
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Fenrix on August 18, 2011, 09:35:53 PM
This one was nicely done. I can see it appealing strongest to artists, particularly those who like the stage. But it transcends this niche into a more universal story.

I was amused to notice that Dave was suffering from the beginning-of-the-year curse. At Wilson Fowlie's recommendation, I downloaded Impossible Dreams (http://escapepod.org/2007/05/10/ep105-impossible-dreams/).
Title: Re: PC140: Terrible Ones
Post by: Corydon on August 25, 2011, 02:51:59 AM
Also, I was a little surprised that the Iliad didn't mention the Trojan Horse--what story does that happen in?


That depends what you mean - I think they're quite a few sources for it in Greek writing, but if you're just talking about epics, I think it's only in the Aeneid.

At the risk of engaging in thread necromancy: the Trojan Horse also appears in book 4 of the Odyssey.  (It's also in Quintus Smyrnaeus, but pretty much nobody reads that.)