Escape Artists

Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: SFEley on February 16, 2007, 05:36:10 PM

Title: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: SFEley on February 16, 2007, 05:36:10 PM
By Robert Silverberg. (http://www.majipoor.com/)
Read by Stephen Eley.

All had been so simple, so elegant, so profitable for ourselves.  And then we met the lovely Selene and nearly were undone.  She came into our lives during our regular transmission hour on Wednesday, October 7, 1987, between six and seven P.M. Central European Time.  The moneymaking hour.  I was in satisfactory contact with myself and also with myself.  (Now – n was due on the line first, and then I would hear from (now + n).


Rated R.  Contains sex, nudity, and explicit finance.

(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif)
Listen to this week's Escape Pod! (http://escapepod.org/media/EP093_NowPlusN.mp3)
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Simon Painter on February 16, 2007, 06:29:10 PM
I *really* liked this one.  It's probably the best we've had on here in ages. 

The story focus is perfect, it's a love story where they have a problem when they're together, an idea the story fully explores at a pace that's perfect.  it doesn't feel rushed, nor drawn-out.

I loved the use of time-travel as well, that's a really neat way to use it, and it's the obvious thing to do really, if we really did invent any form of time-travel guaranteed the first use would be money-making!

This also stands in stark contrast to the previous episode, as the story would actually be quite hard to do without the SF content, not without some significant changes to the plot, anyway.

My only complaint is the ending, it feels kind've tacked on.  I'm happy enough with the idea of her fetching newspapers for him to use as an alternative to talking to himself, but the idea of him somehow, almost magically, learning her skill seems unlikely.  There's not really any reason to include it, either, the plot had already been resolved before this development.

4.5/5 this time, more like this please :-p

Simon Painter
Shropshire, UK
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Bdoomed on February 16, 2007, 08:22:57 PM
the beginning kinda lost me, too much random numbers heh.  But as i listened to it, i really got into it.  Very well told, after the initial confusion over the time stream it gets really good!
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: jeffwik on February 17, 2007, 03:30:07 AM
Agreed, the setup was a little slow, but it really picked up once Celine arrived.  I spent a sizable chunk of the story expecting her to be a Time Cop of some kind, and the actual truth of the matter was certainly entertaining.  The ending doesn't make a whole lot of logical sense (the narrator's odd obsession with a game he's thoroughly rigged so he can't possibly lose notwithstanding, even a conservative investment of the narrator's millions of dollars of capital will surely generate enough interest for the couple to live very comfortably) but does fit thematically and emotionally with the rest of the story.

One thing I didn't like about this episode, and that I enjoyed about the last several, is the reader.  I have nothing against Stephen Eley's voice, but I feel that I hear it and Mur Lafferty's a lot.  Looking at the site, I see there's been four stories (five counting the flash piece) since the last one Stephen read, so maybe I'm being irrational.  But one of my favorite components of Escape Pod is the Intro-Text-Outro format, with a clear distinction between the story and the rest of the podcast.  This stands in stark contrast to the bulk of the podcasts I hear, which aren't so smoothly defined.

Let me say clearly I don't dislike Stephen's voice.  I just really like hearing him introduce a story, hearing someone else read it, and then hearing him comment on it.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: mthornton on February 17, 2007, 04:07:52 AM
I also spent the entire story expecting her to be a cop or a con artist.  I expect this says more about me than the story.

Have a relationship that did not have any ulterior motives was refreshing.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Josh on February 17, 2007, 04:17:28 AM
I agree with mthornton, Hollywood has ingrained betrayal and deception into our minds,everything is just too good to be true, and it was nice to have an all around, well pardon the repetition, nice story. I was also very pleased about the length, when my computer finished downloading and I saw 53 minutes, I was ecstatic. Keep up the good work.   
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: SFEley on February 17, 2007, 07:16:11 AM
I was also very pleased about the length, when my computer finished downloading and I saw 53 minutes, I was ecstatic. Keep up the good work.   

Heh.  Yes, I remember your previous comment about the stories being too short, and I was actually thinking about you when I put this together.  >8->

This is nearly on the outside of our length curve -- it will take a highly extraordinary case for us to exceed an hour -- but we do try to vary the length and pacing of the episodes, along with a number of other variables when I'm scheduling.  Two twenty-minute episodes back to back was fairly unusual.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Heradel on February 17, 2007, 07:46:13 AM
How many takes does it take for you to record something this long? Do you do one long one and then go back to the coughs, sips of water, and other verbal anomalies?

I do have to say, as someone that has known a couple of Texan females, Steve's take on the Texan female voice was one of the funnier parts.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Brian Reilly on February 17, 2007, 03:22:46 PM
This was excellent. Which is a pleasant surprise as I didn't like the previous Robert Silverberg story too much.

It had one simple, clearly expressed idea and explored it well, as short SF should. It's a realistic idea about how someone could use time travel, and the dilemma the main character found himself in made me eager to find out how he would resolve it.

The twist at the end was clever, I thought. The obvious solution would be to set aside a time to communicate with the others, the eventual outcome was very much unexpected.

5 stars.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: SFEley on February 17, 2007, 04:21:33 PM
How many takes does it take for you to record something this long? Do you do one long one and then go back to the coughs, sips of water, and other verbal anomalies?

It varies.  I don't want to bore people by going too deep into how the sausage is made, but I generally record in one long take, marking my mistakes as edit points while I read, and then go back and edit.  (Which usually takes 2-3 times as long as recording.)  The hazard of splitting a story into multiple recording sessions is that it's hard to keep one's voice exactly the same.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: contra on February 17, 2007, 05:40:46 PM
10/10. Will listen to again.  :D

Its a good story.  I liked the technical look at time travel and an easy was of IDing yourself are past present or future without sounding like a nutbar...

I liked the predetination and the complexity of the time travel.  A mechanism is not always needed for these sorts of things, its easily accepted if you just make it a part of your universe.  Far to many people worry about the how today, and let it get in the way of a good story... but thats why SF exists... its fiction... anything can happen.

I want light speed battles with dragons in space with neo Hitler and space jesus.  I don't care about the how...
ok maybe not... <___<
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: nebulinda on February 17, 2007, 07:38:31 PM
This has been my favorite story for the last couple of weeks. The only part I didn't like was how fast they fell in love. But I can get over that because the rest of the story had me captivated. I also kept expecting her to turn him in to the SEC or something.

I love the idea of loving someone, but they're also ruining your life. Normally, in a story this long, I would probably have fallen alseep. But this story held my interest so much that I was able to stave off sleep for a another few minutes. (Don't get me wrong; I always listen to the rest later, but I usually listen before I go to sleep, and I have very little attention span anyway.)
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Roney on February 17, 2007, 11:51:04 PM
A five-star hotel south of the river?  I know that this is speculative fiction, but I prefer it when it's plausible.  :)  I'd also say that the body of water by Abu Simbel is more Lake Nasser than the Nile, and I'd have thought that this would have been the case in 1972.  (Assuming the globalhyperinterweb is correct about when the story was written.)  It sounds a bit nit-picky, but a story that wears its globe-trotting on its sleeve needs to get the little details right.

Still, I've got to love a character who drinks Chateau d'Yquem before dinner.  And I quite liked the idea that he was so obsessed with making money that he would give up the love of his life for it, despite having a hoard that would sustain a small nation: that felt depressingly realistic.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: eytanz on February 18, 2007, 07:24:39 AM
First, let me start by saying that I really liked the story. It was well-plotted, consistently interesting for 45 minutes, and for once, a good blend of a story that's both about ideas *and* about people, rather than the stories where SF elements are just window dressing, or where the characters are cardboard cutouts.

The one thing I didn't like was the voice acting. It was very skilled, and very good - but I felt it was pretty inappropriate for the story. It started well, but by the middle the tone felt mismatched to what it was relating - it felt like the narrator isn't believing anything he was saying. Maybe it was just me, though, since no-one else commented on this yet.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Roney on February 18, 2007, 08:58:47 PM
Regarding Steve's intro, there's an Iain Banks book where the whole plot turns out to have been driven by one character's love (or at least obsession) for another.  (It's difficult to be more specific without spoilers.)  Love doesn't exactly take centre stage, but it's the best example I've been able to think of so far.

I'm assuming from the lack of comments on this subject that there isn't a vast sub-genre of sci-fi romance that Steve and I have somehow missed...

Edit: [annoyed grunt]  Just spotted the thread of SF/F love stories in the SF/F Discussion board in the forum.  Not that it's unearthed many examples yet.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: SFEley on February 18, 2007, 10:03:52 PM
Regarding Steve's intro, there's an Iain Banks book where the whole plot turns out to have been driven by one character's love (or at least obsession) for another.  (It's difficult to be more specific without spoilers.)  Love doesn't exactly take centre stage, but it's the best example I've been able to think of so far.

Which novel?  I could think of Excession and Use of Weapons both fitting that description in very different (and somewhat disturbing) ways.  >8->
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: wakela on February 18, 2007, 11:24:13 PM
I have some issues with this story, but the good parts were so good that I still enjoyed it very much.  I'm pretty sure that they could have come up with some arrangement, especially after he told her what the deal was and she was cool with it.  I love my wife, and I have to spend 8 hours a day at the office.  He would only have to spend 20 minutes every two days at the hotel bar while she got a makeover.  Of course he could have stopped altogether and lived off the interest.  I know he was obsessed with money, but "he's crazy" isn't the most interesting motivation.  It's perilously close to Steve's pet peeve that the characters must be stupid for the plot to work.   And having the richest man in the world whine about not being able to make more money is the the best way to earn my sympathy.  I thought the ending was unecessary.  The story felt resolved to me already, but then it kept going with the idea that he could somehow absorb her power. 

I would also like to cast my vote against the voice acting.  I like Steve's voice, but the accents and womanvoice was distracting.  The effects used for the N+1 and N-1 voices, though were great.

Not a gripe, but was it my imagination or was there a lack of articles in this story?  "We sat in bar.  We had drink. I checked out ass."  Had Silverberg just finished a novel and was running low?  I forgot what country the narator was from, but Russians sometimes speak English without articles.  Was writer representing accent? 

That's a lot of gripes, but I still enjoyed the story very much. 
Quote
I also spent the entire story expecting her to be a cop or a con artist.  I expect this says more about me than the story.

Have a relationship that did not have any ulterior motives was refreshing.
Agreed.

Quote
and for once, a good blend of a story that's both about ideas *and* about people, rather than the stories where SF elements are just window dressing, or where the characters are cardboard cutouts.
Agreed.

Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: BSWeichsel on February 19, 2007, 01:55:52 AM
Good Story interesting abilities namely the girl's never thought of something like that. A Swaying back and forth through time.

Would be interesting to see these powers used in a combat setting.

keep up the good work.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: eytanz on February 19, 2007, 02:46:51 PM
Quote
I also spent the entire story expecting her to be a cop or a con artist.  I expect this says more about me than the story.

Have a relationship that did not have any ulterior motives was refreshing.
Agreed.


I actually think this was part of the problem I had with the voice acting. It just never sold the "in love" aspect of the story - it sounded a lot more like someone talking about an ex, still remembering why they loved them, but no longer holding that sentiment. And therefore, it lead me to expect an unhappy ending.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: jeffreyrizzles on February 19, 2007, 03:43:02 PM
A couple of ideas in this story that I thought were interesting -
1. I liked the idea of the "n" interval of time constraining which "selves" the narrator could communicate with, although I didn't figure out that that was what was going on until maybe 2/3 of the way through the story (I tend to listen while I'm walking around the city, riding the train, etc.)
2. Whenever a story deals with time travel, there's always the question of how you deal with free will - is the character able to change what happens in the past or future?  This story seemed to fall on the side of positing an unchangeable timeline.  Given that the past and future are inevitable, I thought that the narrator's attitude was appropriate, and I liked the fact that he missed the tranquility of being in contact with his past and future selves.
3. Seline's gift - "swinging" through time - didn't seem as well thought-out.  What does it mean that she "swings" through time?  If she swung back to two seconds ago and she was standing in the same place as before, would the two versions of herself be occupying the same space?  I don't know, I suppose I should just sit back and enjoy the story for what it is.
4. The main conflict of the story hinged on the fact that the narrator couldn't use his ability when in contact with Seline.  Now, I've been crazy about someone to the point that I wanted to be around them quite a lot, but this guy has to sneak around just to go to the bathroom for ten minutes.  That's not really a functional relationship, if you ask me.  In general, I didn't really buy the characters or their motivations.

So overall, a cool idea (which is all that I ask of a SciFi short story) with some slightly annoying holes and inconsistencies, but overall a good listen.  Thanks!!
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Biscuit on February 19, 2007, 09:48:46 PM
It's perilously close to Steve's pet peeve that the characters must be stupid for the plot to work. 

It's what I like to call the "Lost Syndrome" - if each party would just bloody well TALK to each other about what the problem is, they'd figure things out a heck of a lot sooner. Oh right, that doesn't make for good drama  ;) "Honey, I love you to bits, but just give me 20 minutes a day on the john, and we'll be rolling in the dough, mmmkay?"

I guess if it came down to personality analysis, our hero may have been world wise and money savvy, but didn't have a clue about personal relationships. That happens. Still, "slapability" is not a characteristic that endears to me in love stories.

As for the intro comment: I know it's not Sci Fi, but it is fantasy - Terry Goodkind's series (which started with "Wizard's First Rule") revolves mainly around Richard and Khalan's relationship (and yes, they too can get a bit slappable for their abstinence and mooning around the country side!)
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: contra on February 19, 2007, 10:14:20 PM
Quote
"Honey, I love you to bits, but just give me 20 minutes a day on the john, and we'll be rolling in the dough, mmmkay?"

so be fair the character said that wasn't the issue.  It was the constant feeling of the others being there.
I guess it was a like a security blanket; you feel naked and vinrable when you go on without it at first... but you learn to forget about it and live with it.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: slic on February 20, 2007, 12:55:08 AM
This is what I get for chiming in late on a story - lots of me toos from me.
Loved the N+ N- voices - nice post production
Thought the plot was a bit strained, especially her power - hopefully it didn't show up until puberty, and even then how was school, work, relationships?
Quote from: madSimonJ
My only complaint is the ending, it feels kind've tacked on.
Absolutely - problem is solved and then "blah blah I moved 2/10s of a second and got fuzzy ."

Quote from: Biscuit
It's what I like to call the "Lost Syndrome"
I call it the "Three's Company Plot" (shows my age I guess), but same idea the whole plot is based on a misunderstanding or lack of communication.  Here was not quite as bad, but it annoyed me quite a bit that the guy fled around the world in a panic without even a note and all he had to say was "hey baby, gotta use the toilet" and disappear for 20 minutes.

so be fair the character said that wasn't the issue.  It was the constant feeling of the others being there.
Then what was the deal with her getting all the newspapers?
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Scott Nash on February 20, 2007, 02:11:22 AM
I too, loved the story.  The only thing is I thought he was a bad guy (cheating the market).  I kept waiting for the 'comeuppance.'
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: robwicks on February 20, 2007, 07:14:57 PM
I dug this one a lot. I confess to thinking that he was being deceived, or that she had been given the amulet by one of his future selves for some reason or something. I remember thinking, "Is it really so difficult to set up a time to be 20 feet away on a regular basis," but the ending somewhat addressed this. The story has an "old school" feel, with the melodramatic suicide threat and a few other things, but I don't consider that to be a negative by any means. This was about as good a short story as I've heard recently. So good, that it actually spurred me to register and comment, so you struck a chord with at least one listener.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: PHaring on February 21, 2007, 02:16:43 AM
Definatley liked this one.  As an accountant by day, it's nice to see as SF story that works in parts of my industry in a unique way.  Lots of fun!
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Biscuit on February 21, 2007, 03:51:29 AM
The story has an "old school" feel

Yes, I felt that too. I DID enjoy the story - the imagery and science was incredibly well crafted (in case I came across as a cynical bunny before). One tends to forget there's over THIRTY FIVE YEARS!!! of science fiction, Hollywood and social changes since it was written, therefore it was written in a time where a generation was was just discovering itself sexually, romantically and it's new lack of limits.

With a bit more thought, thinking "70s style", it has a touch of that "blind 50s/60s" romance attached to it. Which is fair for the time in which is was written.

Romeo and Juliet would NEVER cut it if it was "original" in 2007. People would barf all over it.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: bmambo on February 21, 2007, 04:13:09 AM
I too really liked this story. As with many good stories, it takes a bit of setup to get your head into the plot, and then, well, you are carried briskly on through to the end. No crying required in this one - just a satisfied smile at the end.

Something I felt during the "read" was the notion of hearing the n-1 and n+1 interactions from both sides of time. When we first encounter an interaction it feels hidden, unknown and unfamiliar, but during the n+1 side of the interaction it's the opposite. It reminded me that in life all things are ultimately knowable, and that one need not fear the unknown as much as we often do.

One problem I observed in the plot was Selene's amulet, which prevented her from sliding through time. We are told that it was given to her by someone in the future - but if Selene possessed it in a future moment, how could she have slid back to the present? By definition the amulet cannot be carried through time!

Oh, and finally, I vote FOR Steve's voice. I find his renderings of stories are terrific, and more so now that I have heard him, what about 100 times now? Keep up the good work, Steve!
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: eytanz on February 21, 2007, 04:23:19 AM
I think Selene says the amulet needs to be touching her skin to work. So maybe she took it back in a giftwrap or something.

And I should clarify that I'm not arguing against Steve's *voice* - I think he's a great narrator, and I usually really like it when he voice acts. And I think that he did really well in conveying a certain tone - he was perfectly believable in that tone. My problem is that I think that choice of tone did not mesh well with the story. But I don't want to repeat myself too much, so I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: SFEley on February 21, 2007, 04:39:26 AM
And I should clarify that I'm not arguing against Steve's *voice* - I think he's a great narrator, and I usually really like it when he voice acts. And I think that he did really well in conveying a certain tone - he was perfectly believable in that tone. My problem is that I think that choice of tone did not mesh well with the story. But I don't want to repeat myself too much, so I'll leave it at that.

I appreciate the feedback, eytanz.  For my part, I think everyone else seems to like my reading somewhat more than I liked it.  >8->  Picking a voice for some stories is really hard, and in the case of this one I wasn't entirely happy with my accent.  But there had to be an accent -- I think the diction in the story, the dropping of articles, was in the prose because the character was Bulgarian -- and not knowing any suitable readers or podcasters with East European heritage, I decided to just take a crack at it.

Fun story, though.  We still have several more Silverberg pieces that we'll be delivering over the course of the year, all very different from each other.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Jason on February 21, 2007, 05:58:01 AM
What can I say that hasn't been said already? I thought that it was an excellent story except for the beginning. Too much talking about the process and how he made his millions, I grasped the concept(s) quite quickly because the author explained it excellently at first, but then continued elaborating on it which got boring. Overall I'd give it 9/10! Very inventive concept and the possibility of meeting + n and - n was pretty cool
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: dreamingmind on February 21, 2007, 06:50:30 AM
We still have several more Silverberg pieces that we'll be delivering over the course of the year...
That's good news in my book! I've LOVED this one and When We Went to See the End of the World. As Tony and Ciaran (http://starshipsofa.com) would say, "Thanks Bob!". And thanks Steve.

And I agree with your critique of your performance on this one. Though the accent did fade part way through and I wasn't so sorry to see it go.

Don
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Thaurismunths on February 21, 2007, 02:02:47 PM
I got a kick out of this story on many levels. For one I like the character, his fraternal interactions with +n and -n, and how they didn't make waves: Each did as +n suggested, while not ruining the fun for -n.
One thing that kind of skipped for me is that although Now only has contact with +n and -n, +n would be in contact with +n+n, who would be in touch with +n+n+n, and so on. So what's stopping +n^n from relaying information from the distant future, back to the correct "Now" who can act on it?
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: BSWeichsel on February 21, 2007, 02:09:35 PM
I think if You're gonna do the introduction you should have some one else do the story and if your gonna do the story have some one else do the introductions.It was a little bit difficult to figure out where the story begun and where the introductions and ending started or ended.

That was really my only complaint with this story.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: DKT on February 21, 2007, 07:19:50 PM
I've got nothing but respect for this story.  The Now + n, Now - n concept was a very unique take and once I got past the opening, which left me a little dazed, I was pretty into it, even though the ideas made my head hurt at points.  (Which I think it a mandate for good time-travel stories.) 

And it tickles me no end to hear my comment in the outro.  Thanks.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: FNH on February 21, 2007, 08:22:10 PM
Having read this thread, I seem to be the only person on the entire planet ( of course everyone on the planet does listen to Escape Pod ) who absolutely hated this story.

Too long for the pay off. 
The +N/-N references became overbearing and were repeated too often. 
The explanations of the time-travel-link thing went on and on.

[Engage Rant Mode]

The real problem : Love stories suck at the best of times in Sci Fi.  I dont actually want this mush in my stories it's boring to me.  I want action, activity, progression, not lovestruck paragraph padding.  Grrrrrrr! >:(

[Disengage Rant Mode... I said DISENGAG...  Oh thats better]

Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Mr. Bunny on February 21, 2007, 10:33:39 PM
I wouldn't say I entirely hated it, but I didn't much care for it. The amulet inconsistency was definitely one. (I think she said she had to be within 12 inches of it. So how did she get it home?)

I didn't find the narrator at all sympathetic. He's a rich twit who boasts of his intelligence but couldn't come up with any of the solutions suggested above, and fails miserably without his crutch. He believes he's been given a gift by Evolution (pretty sure Steve read that with a capital E) and he uses it to be a parasite.

And the bit at the end: "Well, I could have just set up a communication schedule, but...I really miss good ole +n and -n," felt contrived and tacked on. Why didn't he use that scheme instead of dashing around the world? And if he really was so dependent on constant contact with +n and -n, why did he only communicate with them for a few minutes three days a week? And that to read out a bunch of stock picks.

One other thing that threw me, though I kinda liked thinking about it: Where did the stock pick information come from? Maybe I wasn't keeping track, but it sounded like each iteration got pre-existing stock info. On Monday he traded the recommended stocks. On Wednesday, he recommended the stocks...based on existing trade information. So...how did he get the data in the first place?
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Thaurismunths on February 21, 2007, 11:53:10 PM
And the bit at the end: "Well, I could have just set up a communication schedule, but...I really miss good ole +n and -n," felt contrived and tacked on. Why didn't he use that scheme instead of dashing around the world? And if he really was so dependent on constant contact with +n and -n, why did he only communicate with them for a few minutes three days a week? And that to read out a bunch of stock picks.
But what would they talk about?

Quote
One other thing that threw me, though I kinda liked thinking about it: Where did the stock pick information come from? Maybe I wasn't keeping track, but it sounded like each iteration got pre-existing stock info. On Monday he traded the recommended stocks. On Wednesday, he recommended the stocks...based on existing trade information. So...how did he get the data in the first place?
I believe he read them on friday, and passed them to wednesday, who purchased on monday.
What was purchased on monday was selected for sale wednesday, and sold on friday.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: wakela on February 22, 2007, 12:07:45 AM
Quote
I didn't find the narrator at all sympathetic. He's a rich twit who boasts of his intelligence but couldn't come up with any of the solutions suggested above, and fails miserably without his crutch. He believes he's been given a gift by Evolution (pretty sure Steve read that with a capital E) and he uses it to be a parasite.
I remember this bugged me at the time, too.  He did refer to is superior intelligence.  Even though it was from his point of view, he would have to be incredibly dim to be unaware that he was simply cheating. 

The evolution comment reminded me that there was a serious Intelligent Design riff at the end there.  That evolution had a purpose and that he was thwarting this purpose by not using his gift.  I know that this was the character talking, and not Silverberg, but I wonder if Silverberg would have put this in a story today.  Obviously, the character had already used his gift to ensure his and his offspring's survivability.  If using his gift more meant that he could not be with the woman he loved and make timeshifting babies, then that would change the "plan" of evolution.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Talia on February 22, 2007, 02:15:30 AM
I thought most of the story was rather noirish, personally. Some odd combination of a mystery and a sci fi story. I rather enjoyed the combination (there should be more sci-fi mysteries..:D).

I personally liked the ending, as well. Maybe because the idea of shaking hands with onesself just tickles my fancy :D
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: tsanders on February 22, 2007, 04:46:48 AM
Quote
"Honey, I love you to bits, but just give me 20 minutes a day on the john, and we'll be rolling in the dough, mmmkay?"

so be fair the character said that wasn't the issue.  It was the constant feeling of the others being there.
I guess it was a like a security blanket; you feel naked and vinrable when you go on without it at first... but you learn to forget about it and live with it.

Well, to be fair, the character said it wasn't the issue, but it sure took up a lot of the space to resolve, didn't it? The narrator may have insisted it wasn't the problem - but he went to crazy lengths to fix the thing that wasn't the problem.

I have to say, I didn't like this one. I didn't like the all of the exposition about the n-1, n+1, but I'm willing to let that slide. (As both a programmer and a SciFi fan I should expect to "get it" quicker than the average reader/listener. At least I hope so.) But the insta-love didn't feel authenthic, and all of the "Oh, we can never part for even a MOMENT, our love is SOOOOOO great." felt very juvenile to me. I never bought that a person who lived his life in this fashion would fall in love to the point of utter incapacitation in minutes like that. Since I never bought that premise the rest of the story was fighting with my "willling suspension of disbelief".
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: beardiebloke on February 22, 2007, 11:50:40 AM
I liked it - it really made me think of that movie Primer.

time travel + stock market = $$$
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Paul Campbell on February 22, 2007, 12:18:36 PM
Good story, although I can't say I found the love story too convincing I'm afraid. Felt too much like a plot device.

For a character supposedly smart enough to develop the scheme of working the stock market so successfully, he wasn't smart enough to stop trading when he lost touch with his future self.  That's a minor point, as he could just have easily lost that money doing nothing.

I did enjoy it however.  More please.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: RKG on February 22, 2007, 08:04:15 PM
I got a kick out of this story on many levels. For one I like the character, his fraternal interactions with +n and -n, and how they didn't make waves: Each did as +n suggested, while not ruining the fun for -n.
One thing that kind of skipped for me is that although Now only has contact with +n and -n, +n would be in contact with +n+n, who would be in touch with +n+n+n, and so on. So what's stopping +n^n from relaying information from the distant future, back to the correct "Now" who can act on it?

I enjoyed the story, but had the same reaction:  Communication with any future self = communication with all future selves.  Silverberg even hints at this with the "pass it on" comment +N makes at one point.   

Seems like his future could/would ring back all the way from his death - just like his history is carried forward all the way from birth.   Maybe he is consciously NOT telling -N things just for that reason.  It'd be too depressing.  ;)

Of course, any break in the communication (like, say, coming across a psi-suppressing field at some point) would stop the chain right there.  It's the reverse time-flow equivalent of getting amnesia. 

Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Russell Nash on February 22, 2007, 09:22:16 PM
One other thing that threw me, though I kinda liked thinking about it: Where did the stock pick information come from? Maybe I wasn't keeping track, but it sounded like each iteration got pre-existing stock info. On Monday he traded the recommended stocks. On Wednesday, he recommended the stocks...based on existing trade information. So...how did he get the data in the first place?

When you look at the stock listings it has current price, high price from the last year, low price from the last year, etc.. Also many papers and IHT (International Herald Tribune) is (I believe) one of them has a big movers list. This list give the stocks that lost or gained big. This is all he was looking for.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Djerrid on February 23, 2007, 02:08:39 AM
I liked this story in spite of myself. I usually cringe at inconsistencies and gross violations of common sense, but this story had me hooked the whole time. In addition to the ones mentioned above, here are a few more I've noticed of just the stock trading scheme:
- Of all the things one could do with that superpower, the only one he ever attempts is to make money on the stock market? Why not gambling on sporting events? Why not take a page from Early Edition and tip off passengers of a fatal plane crash the day before? Usually money-hungry people are power-hungry as well. How about telling a Prime Minister about an attempted coup of his government in exchange for favors?
- One of the most implausible aspects of the story was that Celine was NOT from the SEC. Nobody is right all the time. If they are it throws up red flags everywhere.
- If his brokers are gleaning from his "sure thing", they wouldn't be able to keep that secret for long. Soon everyone "in the know" would be getting a cut as well.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: BlairHippo on February 23, 2007, 02:20:21 AM
I really disliked this story.

It's perilously close to Steve's pet peeve that the characters must be stupid for the plot to work.

Actually, this is one of the more egregious examples of "Idiot Plot" I've seen in a long time.  (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/turkeycity.html (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/turkeycity.html))  The story works because and only because the characters are total idiots.  Why did they need to be together 24/7?  Just designate a single bloody hour a day for work -- which it sounded like she actually wanted him to do -- and the problem evaporates entirely!  Other people have mentioned it, but I actually got so irked about this I was yelling at my iPod.  (Luckily, I was in my car, so I didn't have a bus full of strangers thinking I was a lunatic.)

And then her giving up her amulet so they could be together, even though it was painfully obvious they could only be together in any meaningful way if she kept the amulet ... wow.  Just ... wow.

Didn't buy the romance; that's not love, that's two infatuated teenagers.  (Among other things I could point to, if they really loved each other, they'd have shared the gifts that defined so much of their lives a hell of a lot sooner than they did.)  Didn't like the characters.  Got irked by plot-hole after plot-hole.  Got bored several times.

There were some very interesting ideas here, but I thought they were utterly wasted on this plot and these characters.  I expect better from Escape Pod, let alone a freakin' Grandmaster.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: fiveyearwinter on February 23, 2007, 12:06:50 PM
I really enjoyed the concept of this story, but I don't understand why he couldn't just leave for an hour a day. I mean, she got him the newspapers and that actually kind of made me laugh, but...I guess I would just get a drink by myself for a little, pick the stocks, and bam, I'm set.

Also, for someone doing it as long as he had, and as smart as he claimed to be, I found it hard to believe that he would suck at picking stocks THAT BADLY- even if he's got an unfair advantage, he could still have figured something out without them.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Thaurismunths on February 23, 2007, 12:39:19 PM
I really enjoyed the concept of this story, but I don't understand why he couldn't just leave for an hour a day. I mean, she got him the newspapers and that actually kind of made me laugh, but...I guess I would just get a drink by myself for a little, pick the stocks, and bam, I'm set.

Also, for someone doing it as long as he had, and as smart as he claimed to be, I found it hard to believe that he would suck at picking stocks THAT BADLY- even if he's got an unfair advantage, he could still have figured something out without them.

I think his big objection wasn't the money but, as he mentioned towards the end, the ever-present connection he had with himselves. I think it would be akin to being estranged from your family or best friends for dating someone.

I don't know much about picking stocks, but I think the losses weren't suffered because he was bad at picking stocks, I think it's because he didn't pay any attention to the outside world. Once a week he talked to himselves only long enough to do business transactions, and never asking +n why the stocks jumped. He probably became lazy about the other trappings of the marketplace because he had an absolutely fool proof plan, and only fools fall in love.

If I were to be nit-picky about this piece, it would be the ending.
She swings thru time with out the pendant and she can't control it, so what makes it possible for him to mimic her power, but she can't mimic his or control her own?
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: waiting4oct on February 23, 2007, 02:03:10 PM
I know this was written with 1987 being the future, but 20 years of hindsight is hard to ignore.  Check out Black Monday.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_%281987%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_%281987%29)

Friday the 16th was the end of the week where our protagonist was taking a bath, losing hundreds of thousands of pounds. I wonder if he accidentally triggered Black Monday because brokers were copying his moves with a poorly kept secret?
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: BlairHippo on February 23, 2007, 05:07:42 PM
I think his big objection wasn't the money but, as he mentioned towards the end, the ever-present connection he had with himselves. I think it would be akin to being estranged from your family or best friends for dating someone.

Nope.  The story could have developed that angle, but it was a tacked-on afterthought.  The driving force behind the plot was that she was preventing him from making money.  Once she returned with all those newspapers from the future and allowed him to both make money and remain within 20 feet of her every hour of every day, the Problem Was Solved and They Lived Happily Ever After.

(Edit:  Please allow me to add that to the litany of complaints about this story.  The plot was that because they were obsessively clinging to each other every hour of every day, he was no longer able to cheat the stock market.  The conflict was resolved when she came up with a way for him to keep cheating while still remaining within a 20-foot radius of her every hour of every day.  Mr. Bunny is right; this guy is a total parasite.  In a just world, the story would end with him getting hit by a bus.  Or -- horrors! -- him being forced to work for a living.)
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Thaurismunths on February 23, 2007, 06:49:50 PM
I think his big objection wasn't the money but, as he mentioned towards the end, the ever-present connection he had with himselves. I think it would be akin to being estranged from your family or best friends for dating someone.

Nope.  The story could have developed that angle, but it was a tacked-on afterthought.  The driving force behind the plot was that she was preventing him from making money.  Once she returned with all those newspapers from the future and allowed him to both make money and remain within 20 feet of her every hour of every day, the Problem Was Solved and They Lived Happily Ever After.

(Edit:  Please allow me to add that to the litany of complaints about this story.  The plot was that because they were obsessively clinging to each other every hour of every day, he was no longer able to cheat the stock market.  The conflict was resolved when she came up with a way for him to keep cheating while still remaining within a 20-foot radius of her every hour of every day.  Mr. Bunny is right; this guy is a total parasite.  In a just world, the story would end with him getting hit by a bus.  Or -- horrors! -- him being forced to work for a living.)

I took it that money was his superficial concern, but as he said "Even the company of supreme Selene does not wholly compensate for the loss of the harmoniousness that was Now-n, Now, and Now+n." (49:24"-49:38") it was the loss of his other consciousness that drove him to seek alternate answers. He was a man of means, but after taking a beating on Wall Street he saw his lifestyle being threatened. He panicked and ran, but love caught up with him. I didn't feel that this new motivation was tacked on, but tacked on or not, it is how the character felt because the author said he did.
His all consuming, though immature, passion for Selene is a bit over the top, but I think everyone has been through that. "That" being the time you meet the one girl/guy/llama that you can't live with out, and love makes you do all kinds of stupid things.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: tsanders on February 24, 2007, 08:54:39 PM
I took it that money was his superficial concern, but as he said "Even the company of supreme Selene does not wholly compensate for the loss of the harmoniousness that was Now-n, Now, and Now+n." (49:24"-49:38") it was the loss of his other consciousness that drove him to seek alternate answers. He was a man of means, but after taking a beating on Wall Street he saw his lifestyle being threatened. He panicked and ran, but love caught up with him. I didn't feel that this new motivation was tacked on, but tacked on or not, it is how the character felt because the author said he did.
His all consuming, though immature, passion for Selene is a bit over the top, but I think everyone has been through that. "That" being the time you meet the one girl/guy/llama that you can't live with out, and love makes you do all kinds of stupid things.

Sure I've been through it, but then I turned sixteen and moved on.

Being less flippant, I acknowledge that the "My love is like Romeo and Juliet only raised to the power of INFINITY!" love/crush exists. I just don't buy that somebody who spent years developing mental discipline (the discussion about moving n-1, n+1 from minutes to hours and ultimately to two days) and who spent his life being what amounts to a day trader with an unfair advantage is the sort of person who falls INTO that sort of love. I visualize the character as at least in his 30's/40's and the whirlwind romance and the "Darling I can't even bear to be on the far side of the crosswalk from you" just seems wildly out of character for him.

I still contend that the character talks the talk about missing n-1,n+1 but he doesn't walk the walk. For that matter if that's the crux of the problem what's the resolution? There isn't one. There's a resolution for the problem of how he makes money without future information, but there's nothing for the fact that's he is uncomfortable as a singleton. The story is about the stock market tricks, not a feeling of companionship and brotherhood. And as others have stated more eloquently - the solution for the stock market problem is stupid. Heck they could even sit on other sides of the pool and still SEE each other and be twenty feet apart. They could have been talking on the phone for the one hour a day he needs for the stock market work. The final story resolution is a silly way to fix the stock problem and doesn't even pretend to address the missing his future/past selves.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Thaurismunths on February 24, 2007, 09:21:21 PM
The final story resolution is a silly way to fix the stock problem and doesn't even pretend to address the missing his future/past selves.

I'm not really sure what you mean. I thought that was the point behind him learning how to time shift like she did was the solution? If he could learn to swing thru time like she does, and she wouldn't have to wear the psi-suppressant pendant, then he could be in touch with himselves while being be by her side at all times.
Also, I disagree about this story being about playing the stock market. I think that it's a love story. The hero could just as easily been a cop, reporter, or superhero, so long as the girl and the obstacle were the same.
By the way, I don't think the author chose a great solution, I think it would have been better for him to try and train her to control her power.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: tsanders on February 24, 2007, 10:56:56 PM
The final story resolution is a silly way to fix the stock problem and doesn't even pretend to address the missing his future/past selves.

I'm not really sure what you mean. I thought that was the point behind him learning how to time shift like she did was the solution? If he could learn to swing thru time like she does, and she wouldn't have to wear the psi-suppressant pendant, then he could be in touch with himselves while being be by her side at all times.
Also, I disagree about this story being about playing the stock market. I think that it's a love story. The hero could just as easily been a cop, reporter, or superhero, so long as the girl and the obstacle were the same.
By the way, I don't think the author chose a great solution, I think it would have been better for him to try and train her to control her power.

You're right - there were some references to her giving up the pendant if he could time shift with her. To be truthful, I wasn't listening very carefully by the end because I had already given up on the story. Which is a shame because there was this other concept (which I thought was much more interesting) about why evolution would have given them their psionic gifts and whether they needed to use them. I also sort of discounted this as a solution because her "gift" didn't sound livable to me, and the interactions with his n-1,n+1 thing just seemed nightmarish. (If n jumps two years into the future is n+1 now two years in his past, or does he suddenly contact a n+1 from two years and a two days into the future? If the latter how is that helping? That's not a constant and reassuring presence, that's an infinite number of monkeys blinking in and out of existence.) Her swinging through time seemed erratic and uncontrollablle to me.

As for whether the story was a love story or a story about the stock market - of course it's both and neither ;D I disagree that the hero could be anything - the whole crux of the story was he relied on the cross-time communication for his income and the girl interfered with that. If he was a cop you'd have to explain why his being a cop relied on future communication from n+1. It seemed like the focus was more on the cross-time stock manipulation than the love story to me, which is why I phrased it the way I did. Additionally, maybe I downplay the love story in my mind because it rang false and unbelievable to me.

I do feel strongly that his motivations were driven by his income, not his link to his past/future selves. I agree that this is not entirely in line with what he says, but it is in line with what he does. He's willing to walk away from her in order to preserve his income, and treats the return of communication as a bonus. As soon as she solves the income problem he's happy to stay with her, despite the loss of communication. There's a vague promise of eventually mastering time travel to meet his future/past selves but there's certainly not a neat, closed resolution of that issue. Let me put it this way: it seems to me the story is more about the stock market trickery than it is how he gets the girl and stays in contact with n+1. You could replace the girl with the amulet with something else that he had to keep close and interfered with his power a lot easier than you can replace the stock market elements with details of being a cop.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: dokein on February 27, 2007, 03:54:16 AM
I wanted to like this clever story, but I really couldn't muster any sympathy for the narrator.  He's filthy rich, he finds the love of his life, and he nearly throws it all away because keeping the girl would mean he'd have to settle for making additional money at a somewhat slower rate?  I don't think the story set him up as beinq quite stupid or compulsive enough to make that kind of choice.  Fortunately, the ending presents a predicament I can better identify with: the frustration of having talents but no opportunity to exercise them.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: jeffwik on February 27, 2007, 07:19:20 PM
You know what?  Based on these critiques, I'm changing my mind.  This wasn't a good story.  This was a flawed story that did a surprisingly good job establishing mood.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: wakela on February 27, 2007, 11:39:29 PM
Yeah.  I liked the story, as in I enjoyed listening to it and cared about what happened.  But I completely agree with the critiques.  The whole thing rests on something completely implausible.  I guess the quality of writing made up for the gaping plot holes.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Thaurismunths on February 27, 2007, 11:44:17 PM
But I completely agree with the critiques.  The whole thing rests on something completely implausible.

 ???
You know this is SF, right?  ;)
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: VBurn on February 28, 2007, 01:43:57 PM
I agree that the problems mentioned are obviously there in the story.  But it is a well told story if you just accept what the characters say and go with it.  Any time you deviate from what is normal (which is my definition of SF) there will be someway to find flaw in it.  If you want this story without the SF, watch Wallstreet

Sorry for the rant, it was not aimed at anybody directly.

PS  Blue Horse Shoe loves Escape Pod.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: slic on February 28, 2007, 02:22:25 PM
Not looking to start an arguement, just adding my 2 cents - but I think there is a difference between "deviating from what is normal/knowing it is sci fi" and just having a ridiculous character/event.  No post I read mentioned his power as being ridiculous, just the behaviour of the character.

The key to a great story is internal consistency.  If the author had indicated that it was common for whathisname to act like a dopey teenager when infatuated with a new love, perhaps I would have cut him more slack.  Or if he had just been consistent in whatsshisface's motivation - in one part the char said it wasn't the money but that he missed the warm fuzzy of having his "brothers" around - and then he decides it is the money and as long as he has his newspapers to cheat with, he is fine without them.

I somewhat agree with wakela - it was a fun listen (I thought the future/past voice reverb thingy was excellent), but like a good, trashy movie (Independence Day, Armageddon), the plot holes/ridiculous actions are bigger than Bruce Willis's box office earnings.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: wakela on March 01, 2007, 12:01:24 AM
Quote
But I completely agree with the critiques.  The whole thing rests on something completely implausible.
Quote
Huh
You know this is SF, right?  Wink
I meant the relationship was implausible, not the time travel.  Some people liked the stoy, some didn't.  I did, but those that didn't have perfectly valid points.

Though your comment made me realize the following irony.   
Story guy: So I could communicate with myself from the future and myself from the past.
Us: Cool.  Got it.
Story guy:  I instantly fell in love and could not be away from her for a second.
Us: WHA?!  That's crazy talk!

As Slic said, if Silverberg had thrown in two sentences about how Story Guy and Story Girl fromed this ludicrous bond because they were the only two time travellers in the world and there was some kind of subconscious mojo, then he could have sealed that hole.  Or at least painted over it. 
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Thaurismunths on March 01, 2007, 02:20:25 AM
Quote
But I completely agree with the critiques.  The whole thing rests on something completely implausible.
Quote
Huh
You know this is SF, right?  Wink
I meant the relationship was implausible, not the time travel.  Some people liked the stoy, some didn't.  I did, but those that didn't have perfectly valid points.

Sorry, meant that to be tongue-in-cheek.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Wolfger on March 02, 2007, 01:29:15 AM
Hi, everybody! Long time listener, first time poster. I would have to say that this story fell short of "excellent" for me, and was merely "very good". The flaw that downgraded it was not just that the obvious solution (setting aside "away time" every day) wasn't the story's solution, but that the character never even considered (or explained why he dismissed) that tactic until the very end of the story. As a result, I spent much of the story thinking "what an IDIOT this guy is for not seeing such a terribly obvious solution!"
Aside from that, I liked the way time travel was handled in this story. I had no problems with the narration, and the whole "n+1, n-1" concept wasn't confusing for me at all. Keep the good stories coming!
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: marriott on March 04, 2007, 01:53:04 AM
I loved the premise of this story, but had a few problems with the execution:

1. I was infuriated while listening to this that he couldn't just rent one room of office space and go there every couple days for an hour or so.  He doesn't even need to explain it, just say that he has to go to work and that he has to work alone to be "in the zone" for making his perfect trades.  I was literally pausing the track to yell at my car radio.  Then as an afterthought, this idea is mentioned as part of the tacked-on, said-too-much ending.  Author should have introduced this solution and shot it down for some reason early in the story.

2. Didn't like the pendant.  If people are evolving, why couldn't she just have evolved into a psi-blocker?  Like that kid in the X-man movie.  The woman's ability just seemed corny and unnecessary.

I'd like to add that it is only because this story was otherwise so good that I was angry with these problems. If the story sucked, well, okay it's a suck story.  But I found myself liking this story so much, having invested a lot mentally into this story (for lack of a better term), that the mistakes were a real letdown.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Russell Nash on March 05, 2007, 07:35:00 PM
I'd like to add that it is only because this story was otherwise so good that I was angry with these problems. If the story sucked, well, okay it's a suck story.  But I found myself liking this story so much, having invested a lot mentally into this story (for lack of a better term), that the mistakes were a real letdown.

That was exactly my thought. I liked most of the story so much that the problems made me mad.

Also the evolution excuse sounds far too much like intelligent design for me. I can accept fairies before I accept that.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Oblio on March 06, 2007, 08:33:51 PM
I know love is not rational, but I think this story took that to an extreme.  The way Selene attached herself to him, the story was setting up to be a vendetta by some one who knew his secret.  That would have had a lot less holes in it;  were that the direction taken, but as it is it's just a guy who can't get away from a woman for one hour a week, and indirectly makes her lose her stability to be with him.

It just don't add up boss.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: mhking on March 11, 2007, 04:15:08 AM
I loved this story, but it had a plot hole you could drive a semi through: whaddaya mean he can't get away from her for an hour a day?!
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: gifo on March 13, 2007, 02:25:38 PM
Just got around to catching up on a month of episoded.

This was an interesting premise built into an AWFUL story [capitalization reconsidered and retained].

Not a plot with a hole, a hole with a plot.

- He could have sat with the Tribune at the other end of the room
- The late hole-patching "I really miss my buddies" is a lame excuse, inconsistent with the story
- He couldn’t part with her for a moment, yet escaped twice around the globe
- HOW did she find his hotels etc? didn’t buy the explanation
- Implausible coincidence that he stumbled on the one psi suppressor in the world
- As a love story, stinks stinks stinks. She's so flawless, they're so happy.
- She's flat flat flat, but probably less than him.
- How did she get all the newspapers in serial order? remember she's a random walker, no control. She would need to find a newspaper stand whenever she landed etc. Implausible she could collect that useful set.
- She loves him so much she throws away the amulet that keeps them together, and without discussion.
- He finds it.
- In the its first appearance, the Amulet Is So Mysterious. meanwhile, Why Is My ESP Failing? I guess Ill have to wait for buddy n+++ to reveal the connection between the two.
- His non-cheating stock losses are so horrible. My dear.
- He couldn’t stand to close the positions for a while - remember, he is the Bill Gates/Warren Buffet of his time.


I could go on... this story requires suspension of common sense on so many levels. really a shock to see such weak plotting from a grandmaster.

Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Michael on April 11, 2007, 03:13:37 PM
Quote
whaddaya mean he can't get away from her for an hour a day?!

Exactly.  What a cozy life to lead that your toilet is closer than 20 feet to the kitchen or living room?  In the same house I can easily get 40 feet away from my partner without even trying.  At least he could take up gardening!    If the effect of tha amulet took, say, 24 hours to wear off, the plot hole would be fixed. 
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Thaurismunths on April 11, 2007, 04:04:01 PM
- HOW did she find his hotels etc? didn’t buy the explanation
Great question.
I get the Bill & Ted "when we get out of here we're going to...." pre-emptivity loop, but for hers to work he would have to run away, she would have to track down where he was, then tell her previous self where he was, so she could track him down. But if she told herself where he was, then she wouldn't have tracked him down in the future. She would have had to cross divergent timelines, not simply slipped head in hers.

Quote
- How did she get all the newspapers in serial order? remember she's a random walker, no control. She would need to find a newspaper stand whenever she landed etc. Implausible she could collect that useful set.
I don't think she's random. I thought she said 'oscillate,' meaning she would skip ahead an hour, back an hour, ahead two hours, back two hours.... ahead a millennia, back a millennia.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Drakoniis on November 18, 2007, 01:44:26 AM
At first, I kindof worried this would end up being a dry, overly-science not-enough-fiction story, but then I noticed it was by Robert Silverberg and kept listening. The plot seemed transparent at first, the femme-fatale hired by the rival businessman to take down the protagonist, blah blah etc etc. Then, it turned out that wasn't the plot at all, and I was way off. Near the end, when I realized what was actually happening, this story became one of my favourites. I think the ending is perhaps the most important part: two people with powers they cannot use as long as they are together. What ramifications does this have, considering they were born with them, and therefore destined to use them? Could it be that now they are together, they no longer need them, for their mutual goals have been accomplished?

Yet another good Silverberg story, I hope to hear more of his stuff on Escape Pod.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Myrealana on December 24, 2007, 07:27:06 PM
Just got around to catching up on a month of episoded.

This was an interesting premise built into an AWFUL story [capitalization reconsidered and retained].

Not a plot with a hole, a hole with a plot.

- He could have sat with the Tribune at the other end of the room
- The late hole-patching "I really miss my buddies" is a lame excuse, inconsistent with the story
- He couldn’t part with her for a moment, yet escaped twice around the globe
- HOW did she find his hotels etc? didn’t buy the explanation
- Implausible coincidence that he stumbled on the one psi suppressor in the world
- As a love story, stinks stinks stinks. She's so flawless, they're so happy.
- She's flat flat flat, but probably less than him.
- How did she get all the newspapers in serial order? remember she's a random walker, no control. She would need to find a newspaper stand whenever she landed etc. Implausible she could collect that useful set.
- She loves him so much she throws away the amulet that keeps them together, and without discussion.
- He finds it.
- In the its first appearance, the Amulet Is So Mysterious. meanwhile, Why Is My ESP Failing? I guess Ill have to wait for buddy n+++ to reveal the connection between the two.
- His non-cheating stock losses are so horrible. My dear.
- He couldn’t stand to close the positions for a while - remember, he is the Bill Gates/Warren Buffet of his time.


I could go on... this story requires suspension of common sense on so many levels. really a shock to see such weak plotting from a grandmaster.


I whole heartedly agree with everything you've said here.

The plot hole was simply so large, my interest in the story fell into it and cannot be retrieved.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Unblinking on September 22, 2010, 04:45:58 PM
I LOVED the premise of this one.  It's one I haven't seen the like of before or after.  And that's about it.

(There are definitely echoes here with other commenters)
1.  Idiot plot is based around him never being able to attain a 20 foot distance.  I don't have any such powers that I know of and I get crabby if I don't get a small patch of alone time every day.  Usually I just get up early to go get my writing and stuff in in the morning while Heather's still asleep.  And I don't think I'm unusual in this trait.
2.  We're supposed to feel sympathy because this filthy rich bastard lost the source of his income.  Just live off the interest, dude!  Or get a friggin job like the rest of us.
3.  I don't buy their falling in love so deeply and with no apparent cause.  If they were teens, sure, but it seemed to go entirely against his personality.
4.  The supposed explanation of how the amulet was a problem not because he'd lose his money but lose his contact with his other selves was too little too late, and conflicted with the entire rest of the story.
5.  If he can learn to duplicate her power, why can't she learn to control hers?  Oscillating in increasing swings across time just plain sounds debilitating.  Sure, controlled time travel could be great, but uncontrolled like that would just be terrible.
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: LaShawn on November 11, 2010, 09:13:49 PM
Stumbled upon this one by accident. I'm a Silverberg fan, so I gave it a listen. While I agree with all of the plot hole comments, I can't help it...I found myself sympathizing with Selene. At first, I was put off by her clinging. But when she gave the reasons for the amulet, it made sense.

If she had a habit of oscillating uncontrollably through time, then it would make sense that she would be in a rush to do things before she vanished again. Don't know exactly when she got the amulet, but I would think old habits for her die hard--she's probably the sort who rushes to live all her life at once before it vanishes. Hence, her staying up at all hours of the night doing all sorts of things, barely taking time to sleep.

The ending though: really? Really? That's all they could think of?

(And of course, while I write this, I'm getting an IM from my hubby who is technically five feet away from me, separated by a wall. Yes, we both work at the same company. And yes, we IM each other ALL THE TIME. )
Title: Re: EP093: {Now + n, Now - n}
Post by: Unblinking on November 16, 2010, 05:35:28 PM
(And of course, while I write this, I'm getting an IM from my hubby who is technically five feet away from me, separated by a wall. Yes, we both work at the same company. And yes, we IM each other ALL THE TIME. )

that sounds familiar.  My wife doesn't work at the same company as me, but we often post back and forth on each other's Facebook walls while we're across the room.  :P