Escape Artists

Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: eytanz on August 19, 2011, 12:59:23 PM

Title: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: eytanz on August 19, 2011, 12:59:23 PM
EP306: Radio Nowhere (http://escapepod.org/2011/08/19/ep306-radio-nowhere/)

by Douglas Smith (http://smithwriter.com/)

Read by Wilson Fowlie (http://www.maple-leaf-singers.com/)

---

On the anniversary of the worst night of his life, Liam stood outside the darkened control room of the campus radio station. Over the speakers, the Tragically Hip’s “Boots and Hearts” was just winding down. Behind the glass in the studio, Ziggy’s small triangular face glowed like some night angel, lit from below by her laptop screen. She looked up, her eyes finding Liam’s in the darkness. Smiling, she wrinkled her nose at him. His own smile slid away, falling into the dark place inside him, the place that was always darker on this night.

Ziggy turned back to the mike as the song ended. “I’m closing with a request from an old friend, to an old friend. This one’s for Jackie, from Liam. A hurtin’ song, cuz he’s still hurtin’. Fifteen years ago tonight…” She looked at him through the glass.

Fifteen years. He closed his eyes. Fifteen years, and it still hurt this much.


Rated Inappropriate for the younger ones, due to words of a naughty nature.

(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif) Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://traffic.libsyn.com/escapepod/306_EP306__Radio_Nowhere.mp3)
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: l33tminion on August 19, 2011, 10:46:02 PM
Here's a story that foreshadows with a sledgehammer and doesn't follow through.  To me, the main character's change of heart at the end of the story seemed uncharacteristically sudden, and the ending felt really tacked on as a result.  And after all that setup, the ending was boring.

To paraphrase: He's willing to do anything for one chance to set things right, even if it might destroy the world, but then he doesn't THE END.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: ToooooMuchCoffeeMan on August 20, 2011, 10:28:48 AM
Agreed with l33tminion. And it wasn't just the ending I found boring. Maybe someone new to sf who isn't familiar with all the overworked tropes of time travel and alternate universes might have found something novel here, but for me the only part that was surprising was also unbelievable. You don't dump fifteen years of obsessive grief just like that; more likely Liam would have hated Ziggy forever for so deliberately depriving him of his chance to save the life of his beloved.

Plus, the "is anyone out there?" voice on the radio was just left dangling with no explanation. I was expecting that voice was going to turn out to be Liam's - finding himself thrown out of the timestream or some such after his hubristic attempt to monkey with the universe.

So, sorry...overall one of your less satisfying presentations.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Dem on August 20, 2011, 01:02:29 PM
Agreed with l33tminion. And it wasn't just the ending I found boring. Maybe someone new to sf who isn't familiar with all the overworked tropes of time travel and alternate universes might have found something novel here, but for me the only part that was surprising was also unbelievable. You don't dump fifteen years of obsessive grief just like that; more likely Liam would have hated Ziggy forever for so deliberately depriving him of his chance to save the life of his beloved.

Plus, the "is anyone out there?" voice on the radio was just left dangling with no explanation. I was expecting that voice was going to turn out to be Liam's - finding himself thrown out of the timestream or some such after his hubristic attempt to monkey with the universe.

So, sorry...overall one of your less satisfying presentations.
Agreed. The origins of the disembodied voice and why there might not be 'anyone left alive out there' were where I wanted this to go. The 'Sophie's Choice' business at the end lacked any sort of credibility - or if it did happen, you can predict that Ziggy is going to suffer from being a substitute Jackie for the rest of her life. And what was all that duck stuff? A set-up for Ziggy inexplicably taking a walk on water she knew flickered in and out of her own reality so that, hang on, she might drown in it if it came back while she was sitting 'on' it? Too many plot flaws for me, unfortunately, but as always, gratitude to an author for putting his work out for us to pick at. And very nicely narrated, Mr Fowlie, thank you!
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Kaa on August 20, 2011, 01:11:22 PM
I agree with ToooooMuchCoffeeMan (did I get the right number of o's?) and l33tminion: the story promised me things and then betrayed me in the end.

First of all, how obtuse can someone be? I figured out from the get-go that Ziggy was in love with Liam, and she must have been giving signals for 15 years, and it wasn't until she was literally drowning that he suddenly--after 15 years of clues--figured it out?

Second, why does a person who can't swim walk out onto that solid area overlaying the lake, knowing that at any moment it could revert to wet status and immerse her in water? Or was she actually trying to force Liam into a choice? If so, wow, what a cold-hearted person that doesn't deserve to get the boy.

Third, the voice over the radio. Like ToooooMuchCoffeeMan, I was expecting all along for it to be his voice and that his actions had isolated him in an empty shell of a universe. He saved the girl(s), but lost himself. (I guess that would be more of a PseudoPod ending, though...)

I had high hopes for the story. Things I was expecting to have happen that didn't include the above comment about isolating himself, but also that he somehow caused the death of his wife or that Ziggy did, thereby closing the time loop. I thought this because all through the story it never said exactly how she died or that there were witnesses right up to the end, where it suddenly felt tacked on like an afterthought. "Oh, it was a blue Toyota and there were witnesses."

It was creepy and held my focus right up to the climax, and then I said, "That's it? That's how it ends?" And the extreme convenience of him losing his ring in the lake?

Yeah, it's a story that will stick with me, but for all the wrong reasons.

I'd also like to add that I thought Fowlie did a great job narrating. He really got the emotions across.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: aesculapius on August 20, 2011, 06:40:18 PM
Definitely a story that didn't follow through on an interesting premise. If it's a time travel story, I want to see time travel! Not giving it all up for the girl at the end... which was foreshadowed with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, as l33tminion put it. Not to mention: why couldn't he just try setting up the experiment again at another time?
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: kibitzer on August 21, 2011, 07:55:19 AM
I wouldn't normally weigh in like this (any more) but OMG this had me quite literally yelling my frustration as I listened to it. In a nutshell: 15 YEARS?? GET OVER YOURSELF, MAN!

I might have bought into that at 5 years but 15? Come on!! I mean, my Dad died nearly 10 years ago and I still miss him, especially this time of year as the Father's Day adverts ramp up. And yes, I realise my Dad is not the same as my life partner. But he's gone, OK? I don't remember his death every year, I remember everything I loved about him. Sorry folks, this one just annoyed the hell out of me.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Rain on August 21, 2011, 10:00:35 AM
I felt the story really connected with me, when the main character for the 50th time moaned about when the pain was going to end, i was wondering the same thing.

I dont want to be mean, but i have a hard time getting into stories featuring characters that are unlikable, Liam was a completely whiner and just annoying to listen to, i mean spending 15 years bitching and moaning is just so absurd, no wonder Ziggy was hitting the drugs if she had to listen to that every day.

As for the science fiction aspects i was left with a lot of questions, why did no one else notice the time travel and other aspects that the machine caused? Did no one care that he was turning on the machine for personal use? What was the strange voice, and why did Liam or Ziggy not get the connection between the voice and them using the machine?
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: mary_edith on August 21, 2011, 08:40:18 PM
I enjoyed this story but perhaps that is because of what it reminded me of.   

This setting resonated strongly with me.  I grew up exploring a UW campus, finding old built over new, mysterious and obsolete hatches, wiring, tunnels, and foundations.  I'm not surprised such a setting inspired a time travel story.   

I also grew up with ZBS stories like Moon Over Morocco!  This sci fi crowd may prefer Ruby the Galactic Gumshoe. http://www.zbs.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=204 .  Great stuff!  Like this story, many ZBS productions leave many things unexplained and that is ok with me. 



 
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Schreiber on August 21, 2011, 08:43:35 PM
Or a different nutshell: "Is that an event horizon in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Sgarre1 on August 21, 2011, 09:26:03 PM
ZBS were (are?) great.  I just had The Android Sisters track "Money, Money, Money" come up random on my I-Pod about an hour ago!
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on August 22, 2011, 01:52:22 PM
I agree that the pleading radio voice would've been better off with some explanation.  As it was, it just kind of dangled out there and then never resolved.

However, I wasn't bothered by the sudden change at the end.  For one, the story seemed to hint that the timeline HAD changed to some extent.  I didn't think he lost his ring in the water.  I thought there was some subtle and not entirely explainable shift in the timeline that helped him give up the obsession.  As a result, he had ALREADY put aside the ring, and that's why he was finally able to see Ziggy as a potential love interest instead of as nothing but a buddy.  Maybe I'm completely off-base about that?  Not sure.

In any case, the obvious ways to go with this would be to:
1.  Failed to save his girlfriend though he tried.
2.  Actually cause his girlfriend's death in the attempt to save her.
3.  Save her, but then his future isn't the happy affair he assumed it would be.

I'm glad that it went another way.  Some questioned why Ziggy walked out on the water.  To me, I thought she had finally decided that he was NEVER going to give up his obsession no matter what she did and she'd spent so long clinging to her own obsession that suddenly realizing it was unattainable threw into a sudden depression.  If she'd been entirely rational at the moment, sure she wouldn't have walked out on the water.  But I thought it made sense given her mental state at the time.

I guess one other thing that I thought could've used some more explanation is, why did the water become walkable anyway?  At first, I thought maybe it was flashing to a frozen state based on another time, but that didn't seem to be the case since it was the same date in the past as the present and the water wasn't frozen now.  Everything else except the unexplained voice was a rational but juxtaposed element from the past time--why the oddity of the water?  It struck me as out of place while I listened and the more I think about it, the more it seems like it was less an organic part of the story and more a way to shoehorn in the ending.



Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Kaa on August 22, 2011, 03:13:41 PM
My assumption about the lake was that it was a man-made lake (I think the story even calls it that at one point) that had not BEEN there 15 years earlier.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: drewish on August 23, 2011, 09:42:14 AM
not a fan of this story. the dialog was awkward. the repetition about his anguish got really annoying, why not just hint at it rather than beat us over the head? i suppose it was to show how annoyed ziggy must have been.

the plot was super cliche, as soon as it was apparently that he was hung up on an dead girlfriend and had a new female friend it just seemed obvious that the story was a love triangle to be resolved by time travel.

someone should tell Mr Smith about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun) why have that whole mystery radio voice?

one positive note, i did like the local color that the descriptions of the campus provided. never been there but it had me picturing the tunnels at my campus and time working at the college radio station.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Chuk on August 23, 2011, 04:08:48 PM
I am biased in favour of time travel and stories with a strong sense of place, so I would overall rate the story as a net positive (as in I don't think it was a waste of time listening to it). It was a pretty darn overused trope, though, and also I couldn't figure out why a college radio station would be playing a radio drama. I don't think ours does that.

Ziggy must have something wrong with her to hang out with Liam for 15 years -- he seems like kind of a mopey loser. Also, does he have his own radio show? That only shows up at the beginning of the story and then not again? Maybe I missed it. And what does Ziggy do besides hang out with Liam and sell pot?

I thought the duck was "walking on water" because it was frozen, like there was some kind of heat death in the future and the stars were out and the pond was frozen. I think if the pond had just not been there in the alternate universe, Liam and Ziggy would have seen it walking on the ground.

I liked the Wilson Fowlie reading, good to see him do a full-length Escape Pod story!
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on August 23, 2011, 05:09:05 PM
I couldn't figure out why a college radio station would be playing a radio drama. I don't think ours does that.

Why wouldn't a college radio station play a radio drama?  I don't think my college had a radio station, but if there had been one, and it had played dramas, I would've listened.  It seems especially plausible if there is an active drama club trying to reach out and get people interested in theatre.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: ElectricPaladin on August 23, 2011, 05:17:13 PM
With apologies to Mr. Fowlie - whose reading was, as always, brilliant - this was probably one of the worst stories I have ever listened to on an Escape Artist's podcast. I had absolutely no patience for Liam's fifteen year rut. Fifteen years! I understand that losing your wife is sad, but my wife would come back from the dead merely to beat the shit out of me if I wasted even five years of my life grieving for her. Holy space pope on a bright red jetbike Liam, you blubbering jackass, grow the hell up, go to therapy, and move on with your f*<king life. You know that moment in "Avenue Q" when Christmas Eve is shouting at her husband "go get job!"? That was me, at the computer, shouting "go get shrink!"

In short, I had no sympathy for the main character, which totally killed the story for me. Liam's sad-sack-itude failed to gel into emotional reality, so I found myself just not caring whether or not the world ended. The conclusion hinged on an emotional experience that was completely foreign to me - I was just so sick of Liam that I didn't care that he finally got over his wife.

The sad thing is that this story was so close to being good. Reduce either the duration of Liam's grief (three to five years is on the outside end of sympathetic, but acceptable) or the intensity (he's getting on with his life in many ways but is blocked in one arena: work, love, whatever) and the story would be golden. As it was, I give the story one zeppelin.

But I can guarantee you I won't be sad about it in fifteen years.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Dem on August 23, 2011, 05:38:23 PM
With apologies to Mr. Fowlie - whose reading was, as always, brilliant - this was probably one of the worst stories I have ever listened to on an Escape Artist's podcast. I had absolutely no patience for Liam's fifteen year rut. Fifteen years! I understand that losing your wife is sad, but my wife would come back from the dead merely to beat the shit out of me if I wasted even five years of my life grieving for her. Holy space pope on a bright red jetbike Liam, you blubbering jackass, grow the hell up, go to therapy, and move on with your f*<king life. You know that moment in "Avenue Q" when Christmas Eve is shouting at her husband "go get job!"? That was me, at the computer, shouting "go get shrink!"

In short, I had no sympathy for the main character, which totally killed the story for me. Liam's sad-sack-itude failed to gel into emotional reality, so I found myself just not caring whether or not the world ended. The conclusion hinged on an emotional experience that was completely foreign to me - I was just so sick of Liam that I didn't care that he finally got over his wife.

The sad thing is that this story was so close to being good. Reduce either the duration of Liam's grief (three to five years is on the outside end of sympathetic, but acceptable) or the intensity (he's getting on with his life in many ways but is blocked in one arena: work, love, whatever) and the story would be golden. As it was, I give the story one zeppelin.

But I can guarantee you I won't be sad about it in fifteen years.
Come on, don't mess around. What do you really think?
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Kaa on August 23, 2011, 05:40:08 PM
I couldn't figure out why a college radio station would be playing a radio drama. I don't think ours does that.

Why wouldn't a college radio station play a radio drama?  I don't think my college had a radio station, but if there had been one, and it had played dramas, I would've listened.  It seems especially plausible if there is an active drama club trying to reach out and get people interested in theatre.


"Moon Over Morocco" is a real thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Over_Morocco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Over_Morocco)). Since I've heard radio stations playing vintage audio drama (or audio comedy) before, I didn't think it was all that odd.

Of course, what I did find interesting was that it actually exists. I'm curious and want to hear it, but not curious enough to spend $40, which is what it costs to download it from the ZBS website.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: zoanon on August 23, 2011, 07:15:58 PM
I have been going INSANE since I heard this story on Sunday. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MAN? is he still alone? is he dead? why could the duck stand on water?
the rest of the story was just OK,  apart from the voice, I found it very predictable.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Ocicat on August 23, 2011, 07:24:38 PM
Moon over Morocco is great stuff.  As are the rest of ZBS's audio dramas - especially the quirky humor/SF Ruby the Galactic Gumshoe.  Definatly check them out!  I loved that they got a shout out in this story.

Sadly, I found very little else to love here.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Sgarre1 on August 23, 2011, 11:13:24 PM
Quote
and also I couldn't figure out why a college radio station would be playing a radio drama. I don't think ours does that.

I played quite a few radio dramas on my old college radio show.  I even scripted an audio version adaptation of Dicken's "The Signalman" for the drama department.

Most college radio stations are surprisingly hidebound nowadays - in fact, most just accept an NPR feed and barely have any original shows of their own.  The internet has freed us to be boring. it seems...
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Seekerpilgrim on August 23, 2011, 11:37:17 PM
I've got mixed feelings about this story; on one hand it was very atmospheric, the feeling of uncertainty and eventually fear as the lights flickered in an ever widening area and the mystery of the voice on the radio asking if anyone was still alive. On the other hand, it turned out to be what I feel is an overused story (especially in science fiction) about the dangers of changing history, letting go of the past and seeing what is right in front of you. I enjoyed it, but I didn't leave an impact...and while I consider myself an intelligent person, I'm missing something about the duck walking on water. Was it the two universes overlapping and the duck walking on water "here" also walking on concrete "there"?
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: iamafish on August 23, 2011, 11:38:39 PM
i have to echo everyone else here. this story really didn't go it for me. I don't usually call stories out on being predictable, because i'm not great at guessing where a story is going and i don't really try to, but it was SO obvious what was going to happen here. I think from about half way through the story I wanted to scream at Liam to stop being such a mopey loser, get over his dead wife and realise that Ziggy loves him and that he love her back. I was hoping that the random voice would turn into something, but it didn't, so in the end it was obvious that he would end up choosing Ziggy over his dead wife and live happily ever after. Boring and repetitive.

reading was excellent though. I especially liked the little extra bits, like the static and the beep. Well done Wilson Fowlie.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: kibitzer on August 24, 2011, 03:48:48 AM
reading was excellent though. I especially liked the little extra bits, like the static and the beep. Well done Wilson Fowlie.

Yeah Wilson, wanted to ask -- how did you get that static into your voice?
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Wilson Fowlie on August 24, 2011, 04:17:55 AM
I especially liked the little extra bits, like the static and the beep.

Yeah Wilson, wanted to ask -- how did you get that static into your voice?

Since you ask...

This was the first story recording I have done using only Audacity - previously I've used the sequencing software that I use for making rehearsal tracks for my show chorus.

I did look to see if there were recordings of static available for download. There are, but I didn't end up using any, because it turns out that Audacity has a White Noise generator. I used that to generate several seconds of the static noise, then used Audacity's 'envelope' tool to raise and lower its volume (and that of my voice, though in the opposite direction, naturally).

Audacity also has a tone generator, which is what I used for the answering machine beep.

The one thing I wished I'd done after submitting the finished recording was to have put Ziggy's voice on the answering machine through a filter to make it sound like it was coming through a telephone (not too much, just enough for atmosphere).
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: kibitzer on August 24, 2011, 10:54:41 AM
Cool! Audacity is pretty damned awesome, especially for the price ;-)
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Scattercat on August 24, 2011, 11:18:30 AM
I'm glad I'm not alone.  Usually I'm the only one who feels like a story was bludgeoning me with foreshadowing.  I don't have quite the same active dislike for this story as some, but I certainly wasn't overly fond of it.  If we had dialed back on Ziggy's sitcom-level hint-dropping a bit, made Liam's grief less ridonkulous, and actually gone with the jerk ending (Liam walks through the empty world, approaches the college radio station, and begins to speak: "This is Radio Nowhere.  Is there anyone out there?  Is anyone still alive...?"), I'd have been happier all around.  As it was, the motifs were overly aggressive (Sonic the Hedgehog isn't as ring-obsessed, I swear) and the ending fell very flat for me due to the previously mentioned difficulty empathizing with someone as clearly in the wrong as Liam.  (Really?  He has only *one friend* in his life?  Even I'm not that bad.)

Interestingly, I suspect I'd have been much less antagonistic toward the story in text.  The ability to skim and speed-read would have made the experience much more enjoyable.  I realize this is damning with faint criticism, but I think the inflexibility of the audio format (can't skip accurately, can't speed up easily, fifty minutes to complete compared to seven) turned what would have been a forgettable but not unpleasant story into a real grind.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Talia on August 24, 2011, 01:40:16 PM
I really, really want to hear Radio Voice Guy's story. I wish this story had chosen to explore that more, rather than take the route that it did.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Devoted135 on August 24, 2011, 01:46:30 PM
This was definitely not my favorite for many reasons that have already been covered extensively. :-\ But the narration was great, and I loved the little extras like the static. Also the "live" intro and outro, that was fun. :)
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on August 24, 2011, 01:52:01 PM
I have been going INSANE since I heard this story on Sunday. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MAN? is he still alone? is he dead? why could the duck stand on water?
the rest of the story was just OK,  apart from the voice, I found it very predictable.

It is a rare species known as the Jesus Duck.  Besides it's odd water-walking adaptation, it is also capable of sending telepathic messages in the form of radio broadcasts.  Usually these take the form of a confused and terrified man, or sometimes a dating website infomercial.  This characteristic is thought to attract Ham Radio enthusiasts and physicists who can't stop grieving over their long-dead spouses, which comprise one of two parts of the ducks primary food source.  The water-walking adaptation serves to attract their other food source, people with Jesus complexes.  The duck lures these people out onto the apparently solid water, and then waits for them to drown.  For this reason, the Jesus Duck is thought to be the origin of the legends of the will-o'-wisp.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Kaa on August 24, 2011, 02:47:47 PM
It is a rare species known as the Jesus Duck...

You, sir, win One (1) Internet™ for today.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Dem on August 24, 2011, 04:20:54 PM
Completely quackers.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: childoftyranny on August 24, 2011, 11:11:09 PM
Just to be difficult I present my theory of, WHY LIAM WHY?, what if our poor boy was actually trapped in his own time bubble. He was literally unable to move onward, obsessing over one day internally, as opposed to the external method of Groundhog Day. This might be a far stretch but for reasons beyond me this schmuck didn't strike me as annoyingly as he did others, perhaps because he didn't monologue about it... In this situation instead of what he thinks, going back into time, he luckily stumbled across a window back to the same stream as the rest of the world. It really seems the only sensible explanation as to his extreme obliviousness, that he could not even think of loving someone else because he loved HER.



Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: kibitzer on August 25, 2011, 03:04:06 AM
It is a rare species known as the Jesus Duck.  Besides it's odd water-walking adaptation, it is also capable of sending telepathic messages in the form of radio broadcasts.  Usually these take the form of a confused and terrified man, or sometimes a dating website infomercial.  This characteristic is thought to attract Ham Radio enthusiasts and physicists who can't stop grieving over their long-dead spouses, which comprise one of two parts of the ducks primary food source.  The water-walking adaptation serves to attract their other food source, people with Jesus complexes.  The duck lures these people out onto the apparently solid water, and then waits for them to drown.  For this reason, the Jesus Duck is thought to be the origin of the legends of the will-o'-wisp.

[citation needed]
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Wilson Fowlie on August 25, 2011, 05:27:18 AM
Ahahahahaha
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Wizard of Zoots on August 25, 2011, 05:24:24 PM
I couldn't figure out why a college radio station would be playing a radio drama. I don't think ours does that.

Why wouldn't a college radio station play a radio drama?  I don't think my college had a radio station, but if there had been one, and it had played dramas, I would've listened.  It seems especially plausible if there is an active drama club trying to reach out and get people interested in theatre.


"Moon Over Morocco" is a real thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Over_Morocco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Over_Morocco)). Since I've heard radio stations playing vintage audio drama (or audio comedy) before, I didn't think it was all that odd.

Of course, what I did find interesting was that it actually exists. I'm curious and want to hear it, but not curious enough to spend $40, which is what it costs to download it from the ZBS website.

I’ve been a fan of ZBS ever since I heard the 4th Tower of Inverness serial over 30 years ago.  Moon Over Morocco is 10 hours long.  So $40 isn’t so much to ask.  I must have played that series at least 20 times, it never seems to get old. Tom Lopez the creator actually was giving it away as a free streaming download not too long ago.  Course if you want to read the story he also is selling the script for that production for just $10.



Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: bolddeceiver on August 25, 2011, 05:48:19 PM
First off, love the ZBS reference, while I was a bit more a Ruby than a Jack fan, still brought me back.  I find the ZBS stuff a little too over the top with the new-age spirituality when I go back to it now, but I enjoyed it immensely back in the day.

Now to the story  :-\

A lot of the comment I was writing in my head is already here, so I'll try not to overduplicate, but it just didn't do it for me.  The plot was good enough, if a bit predictable.  The time-travel mechanism was unclear and inconsistent in its effects -- why was it transporting people and ducks but not brick walls, radio transmitters, and other scenery (and don't say "it only affects living things," as far as physics are concerned those are just more energy and matter in a fancy pattern)?  Was it just affecting these two people and a duck -- if so, why on earth, if not why isn't there any sign of anyone else noticing these unusual phenomena?  Also, why is there always conveniently a duck handy to illustrate whatever it was supposed to be illustrating?

The characters, though, were where it really fell apart.  As someone who has experienced the untimely loss of a significant other, I don't love how often fiction seems to say that anyone who suffers such a loss must be terribly broken decades later.  This guy doesn't need a time machine, he needs a good therapist.

Ziggy was even worse.  If you have romantic feelings for a friend, sorry, let me go back and emphasize, a friend, one who you've been friends with for a long period of time, through which you've both been in romantic relationships with other people, it's your job to say something about it.  Giving passive-agrressive hints and acting like a martyr because they're not picking up on it is simply ridiculous, as there's every chance the person has picked up on it but isn't interested and doesn't want to cause a scene by acknowledging your hints and turning you down, or has picked up on it and is interested but doesn't want to make a scene by acknowledging your hints just in case they're misreading them, or they have just so contextualized your relationship as a friendly one as to not pick up on it at all (as outsiders we can see that she digs him, but he's been in an at-least-15-year-long platonic friendship with her).

I guess both characters were too broken -- and too willfully broken, Liam unwilling to get psychiatric help, Ziggy unwilling to speak up about what she actually wanted -- to interest me that much.  By the end I was having a hard time following the plot because the characters were just so irritating.

On the whole the production and voice acting were great (although the drunk acting could use some work), and it's always a mix of fun and jealousy to get those con reports.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: bolddeceiver on August 25, 2011, 05:50:07 PM
I’ve been a fan of ZBS ever since I heard the 4th Tower of Inverness serial over 30 years ago.  Moon Over Morocco is 10 hours long.  So $40 isn’t so much to ask.  I must have played that series at least 20 times, it never seems to get old. Tom Lopez the creator actually was giving it away as a free streaming download not too long ago.  Course if you want to read the story he also is selling the script for that production for just $10.





Also, if you just want to get a taste of ZBS but aren't sure you're ready to drop the big bucks, a lot of municipal library systems with decent audiobook collections have the stuff in their stacks.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Wizard of Zoots on August 25, 2011, 06:06:53 PM
Also, if you are interested in how Moon Over Morocco was recorded using sounds recorded in Morocco (podcast 5) and other tips on audio drama recording, Tom Lopez has free pod casts available on his site, ZBS.org
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: FireTurtle on August 25, 2011, 07:55:34 PM
Since the Jesus Duck question has already been answered, and anything I really wanted to say about my feelings of the story have been well-articulated by others, I will attempt to articulate what I thought happened with the "Ziggy on the water" issue.
I interpreted her motive as being a sort of passive suicide (and hey- thats consistent with her character!) She basically told the MC that by "resetting" his life she would be effectively wiped out, so I figured she thought she was gong to die anyway, why not sit on the ice/ground/whatever. And, if he failed, she would die anyway and it wouldn't be her fault. All just because she was completely incapable of saying she was in luuuuv with some total loser.
By the way, did anyone else find it kind of ludicrous that this man was able to basically fire up the collider whenever he wanted to run tests that blacked out the whole campus night after night (and who invited this guy to stick around either? "Gee- lets hire that uber-dead girlfriend-obsessed creepy weirdo to work at the collider, cuz all the other applicants seem so sane...." I mean, how did this guy manage to get his PhD or whatever when all he can think about is his dead girlfriend? What was his thesis: Quantum Vector Analysis of Blue Toyotas at 00:07?

Stepping back now. I was glad the story was left on my iDevice because I had to drive home late and the frustration kept me awake and perky throughout the drive!
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Ghoti on August 26, 2011, 07:24:37 AM
I rather liked the misdirection of the non-foreshadowing-after-all songs picked for the radio - Break On Through to the Other Side made me note the lack of subtlety, and then just after It's the End Of the World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) everything went dark… And then the lights came back on and the story ended elsewise.  Clever.

My better half has rightly called me Captain Oblivious in many respects, but even I was feeling sorry for Ziggy, who was at the point of throwing herself at Liam like wet pasta in hopes of finally sticking.

Count me in with wonderment at the whole Scared Lonely Radio Voice Guy thing; that whole thread could have been cut out of the story entirely and nothing would have been lost but for listeners' frustrations.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Scattercat on August 26, 2011, 08:50:38 AM
The lonely radio voice is the only part of the story I like.  It's a bit of unexplained weirdness that enhances the mood in a more subtle way than many of the other elements.  (It's also most likely a possible future impinging on the same space, with Liam having cut himself out of time entirely and trapped in a Langoliers-esque version of the college.)
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: matweller on August 26, 2011, 12:28:14 PM
I guess I took the voice on the radio as being a glimpse of what the future held if the old girlfriend was saved -- a future avoided by choosing the new. It was a bit of misdirection and another motivation to avoid that path at the same time. To me it was not only not extraneous, but I think in a somewhat longer version of the story, it would have been revealed to be part of the main character's motivation for changing his mind.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Listener on August 26, 2011, 01:51:14 PM
The story was way too long, and too implausible (he just HAPPENS to work for the Canadian version of CERN?), and that voice -- which I personally thought was someone broadcasting "War of the Worlds", since IIRC the story and/or Jackie's death occurred in October, so, y'know, Halloween -- needed payoff.

To be honest the story feels like it's too early a draft to be published yet. Like there's all these big ideas and set-pieces and relationships that the author wants to include because it's personal to him in some way (my guess is that he went to this college and worked at the campus radio station), but instead of going back and shaving off the bits that don't make a ton of sense or get properly paid off, he just submitted it and the editor who purchased it liked it as-is. Which, you know, is totally fine, but I can understand why so many people were so upset about various parts of the story.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: childoftyranny on August 26, 2011, 02:43:50 PM
Another piece I saw people wondering about was the "convenient" disappearance of the ring at the ending, I think that could tie in with the radio guy, and would be the reason that his cries are the last thing we heard. The obvious foreshadowing is that doing this stuff would trap Liam in some alternate universe/time, well why are we assuming that didn't happen? His final haunting words, "I am.", could easily be an indication that the original voice was once again on the outside.

I know that the obvious response to my words is that I am being too kind, that reading into some of the strange unexplained things and asking, "what if they are clues" rather than writing them off as poor choices. But I think a few of these ideas make the story far more interesting and enjoyable, if they might not have been the purpose. Gosh, presenting that harkens me back to Criticism in college and the one theory, whose title I forget, which you consider the ideas that are read from it matter far more than what the author intended. That was the opposite of the historical method wherein people figured that what it meant at the time in context was the most important bit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what I think about the concept that this guy working at psuedo-CERN as being too convenient, yea that he can run a collider by cell-phone seems a bit fishy, the real question is that they are running the campus and a collider on the same grid? But I digress off that and relate that my old campus had at least a nuclear reactor (currently down due to its license expiring) and possibly some smallish collider because I know we have a high energy physics department and develop partical sensors so I'm not sure that depending on the University of what else what a single person with some silly obession might be pulling. Its a bit of a stretch for sure, ah well.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: pootboy on August 26, 2011, 03:39:40 PM
this was actually one of my favorite pods.  i guess the pockyklips voice really did it for me, even if the grieving man/time travel tale is a bit overcooked these days.  which is also why the ending was very frustrating for me.  but i think matweller cleared things up for me a bit, albeit not all that cleanly-- i'm thinking the voice is a glimpse into a pocket-universe of some kind, a la donnie darko?-- that would have been generated had he meddled with the time-line-- he would have been trapped, alone, in some starless, timeless (e.g. why the water is walkable-- time stops, thereby solidifying matter in fluid states??  tho that doesn't explain why the duck is...oh nevermind, i can't even deal with the f&cking duck right now) static limbo--  only problem is, he/they would have RECOGNIZED his OWN voice instantly, coming from the radio, if it were indeed him, trapped in a timeless pocketverse.  

i know it's considered crass, but at this point i'd love nothing more than the author to step forward and spell this out for us.  i've enjoyed trying to decode this, but I think we've gone as far as we can and I, for one, am now just chafing to just get some answers to the riddles.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Spindaddy on August 26, 2011, 10:57:37 PM
I think that Wilson's reading really made this story enjoyable. The static radio voice actually startled me (I was driving home at 2am and needed something to keep me going for the hour + ride) to the point where I laughed at myself and then nervously lowered the volume a bit.

I've known people like Ziggy and Liam, but they are so dysfunctional and insane with their own craziness that staying near them makes you just as crazy--but even the people I knew figured their baggage out before hitting 30. Sure, they are still flakes, but they are flaky together. Fifteen years is way too long to pine over someone that you met over the course of a year--and chasing someone for over 15 years borders on the insane.

I still enjoyed the story. I edited the 15 years into 5 years--because that made way more sense to me.

I was disappointed there was nothing more about the "kid in the tunnel" where it was boarded up and I think there was a bit further disappointment that the voice just disappeared.  I had half hoped Liam would save Ziggy only to find an angry Jackie standing there.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Thomas on August 27, 2011, 01:33:28 AM
ok, 15 years?? a bit farfetched, 10 is stretching things, 5-7 would have been better, both for the mourning and the girl in waiting (What woman would wait 15 yrs?? not many)

as to the other elements of the story, the foreshadowing: there where three outcomes predicted, he saves his wife but loses the girl, he realizes he is love with the girl and forgets his insane obsession, or something goes awry and the end of civilization occurs. the author, i feel, took the easy route.

It seems as though the author put in the "Is anybody out there?" as a red herring and everyone has bought into it. It was a distraction that worked.

I personally have issues with time travel stories and generally do not enjoy them, but this one had me intrigued and kept me interested enough to stay with it
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Listener on August 29, 2011, 02:29:44 PM
It seems as though the author put in the "Is anybody out there?" as a red herring and everyone has bought into it. It was a distraction that worked.

(http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/red-herring-300x200.jpg)

Red Herring!
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: NomadicScribe on August 30, 2011, 08:13:08 PM
The 15 years comments: The guy was a fool for hanging on to his dead wife's memory while this other girl was right there for a decade and a half. We all get that. Ziggy was a fool for hanging around for 15 years for him. We all get that too.

What I don't get is, if this story is set 15 years after they were all in graduate school together, this would put them in their late 30's. And they're in their late 30's, smoking weed and stumbling around a college campus on a Saturday night? It just seemed implausibly immature behavior for professionals.

Other than that, this was perhaps the most obvious and predictable of all EP stories, but probably not the worst. It gets a solid and enthusiastic two thumbs "meh".
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Listener on August 30, 2011, 08:25:46 PM
What I don't get is, if this story is set 15 years after they were all in graduate school together, this would put them in their late 30's. And they're in their late 30's, smoking weed and stumbling around a college campus on a Saturday night? It just seemed implausibly immature behavior for professionals.

You don't know the professionals I know.  ::)

Actually, if Ziggy works at a radio station, it's highly likely she gets high (too lazy to make a good pun). Most of the radio people I know do so on a regular basis.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: InfiniteMonkey on August 31, 2011, 04:09:42 AM
Don't tell me I'm the only one who got the Springsteen reference??

("Radio Nowhere" is a song with the lyric "Is there anybody alive out there?")

And I have NO problem believing our boy has no idea what's right in front of his face, what with the tortured grief and being a particle physicist.  Glad the clue-by-four finally connected with his head.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: icegirl on August 31, 2011, 06:51:27 AM
Can I say first I thought the story was well read, but I agree with numerous other posters - there were a number of flaws in the storyline - not the least of which the guy is stuck in the same rut for 15 years without anyone he knows giving him a kick in the pants. I can't really believe that any woman would want to carry a torch for a guy who doesn't notice her for all those years either - in real life, real people move on after a while... It seemed like there were so many more interesting things that could have happened in the story than the syrupy happy ending - a guy like that could be the posterboy for a cautionary tale about playing with timelines.

Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: ElectricPaladin on August 31, 2011, 01:15:47 PM
It seems as though the author put in the "Is anybody out there?" as a red herring and everyone has bought into it. It was a distraction that worked.

(http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/red-herring-300x200.jpg)

Red Herring!

Why did I never notice how creepy that art is? Where is Freddie's nose? Where in God's name is his nose!?
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Lionman on August 31, 2011, 01:46:27 PM
Moon over Morocco is great stuff.  As are the rest of ZBS's audio dramas - especially the quirky humor/SF Ruby the Galactic Gumshoe.  Definatly check them out!  I loved that they got a shout out in this story.

Sadly, I found very little else to love here.

I think our mother's taught us, "When you don't have anything nice to say..."

I'm fond of saying that TV shows, Movies and stories have one job at their core: To evoke emotion.  I think this story only really evoked the emotion of confusion.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Gamercow on September 01, 2011, 07:06:20 PM
I'm in the vast minority with this one.  I loved it, but that's probably because like the poster on page 1, it resonated strongly with me.  Some similarities between my life and this story:
Eventually, friend 1 went off to Japan to start his life fresh, and has since gotten married to a woman over there, and come back to the US.  Friend 2 was in contact with both of us for the first 5 years, then less so after Friend 1 went to Japan, and when he announced he was getting married, she fell off both of our radar screens almost immediately.   So yes, you could say I found this story interesting and engaging, and put my 2 friends faces immediately on Ziggy and Liam. 

Anyway, 15 years does seem a bit long, I would have bought 5 much more readily.  To those who were wondering why Ziggy was still smoking pot and hosting a college radio show, and still wearing her jacket from 15 years ago, it is because she was running around in circles, not getting anywhere just as much as Liam was getting nowhere.  They were a star system in human microcosm.  Ziggy was tidally locked moon, orbiting around the planet Liam, only seeing him, while he was tidally locked himself to the dead star named Jackie, aware of Ziggy's presence, but only when she related to the relationship between himself and Jackie. 
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: sombody_else on September 02, 2011, 07:26:32 PM
I thought the duck walking on water was going to be some foreshadowing of the "you can't change the past" trope. But the story never went there...
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: NomadicScribe on September 03, 2011, 09:10:44 PM
I thought the duck walking on water was going to be some foreshadowing of the "you can't change the past" trope. But the story never went there...

Sometimes a duck is just a duck.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: iamafish on September 03, 2011, 09:39:03 PM
and sometimes, it's a rabbit.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Dave on September 04, 2011, 07:36:55 AM
The story was going along swimmingly until the idiot mad scientist guy didn't lose both women in a horrible parallel reality collapse. Or he saved Girl #1 only to discover they didn't get along anymore. Or he saved Girl #2 only to resent her forever for cheating him of his chance to save Girl #1. Or that, and then he tries again and makes everything worse.

Basically, everyone in this story got off way too easy.

But up until then I was enjoying it.

Could have done with more variety of dialogue from the Post-Event-Disembodied-Radio-Voice, though. And why the heck did nobody else on campus notice all the weird stuff going on?
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: childoftyranny on September 04, 2011, 10:50:31 AM
And why the heck did nobody else on campus notice all the weird stuff going on?

Well, those were confusing times man, you didn't want to admit that you couldn't hold your weed...
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Biscuit on September 06, 2011, 06:09:20 AM
Emotionally Stunted Nice Guy (TM) mourning his Refridgerated Wife gets shown the True Meaning of Life by Impossibly Patient Manic Dream Pixie Girl, with added bonus Hipster Pop Culture References and College Nostalgia (aka Things Were Much Better When..., or Being A Grown Up Sux).

PS: What scientist isn't actually present in the laboratory at their experiments? I'd be rather concerned if particle accelerators were being run off Blackberry. Need some pretty hefty security on THAT WiFi.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on September 06, 2011, 01:54:57 PM
I thought the duck walking on water was going to be some foreshadowing of the "you can't change the past" trope. But the story never went there...

Sometimes a duck is just a duck.

and sometimes it's a Jesus Duck.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Devoted135 on September 06, 2011, 02:05:32 PM
I thought the duck walking on water was going to be some foreshadowing of the "you can't change the past" trope. But the story never went there...

Sometimes a duck is just a duck.

and sometimes it's a Jesus Duck.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/224128/april-09-2009/bart-ehrman

I'm sorry, I just had to. You can thank me later ;)

Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: birdless on September 07, 2011, 04:40:32 PM
I was only half paying attention to the beginning of the story, so I missed the reference that his wife died FIFTEEN years ago until near the end. I had these guys pegged as being in their mid twenties by dialog and personality. As for the SOS radio broadcast, my feeling was that it was just giving us a hint of what would have happened if he saved his wife, plus I agree with Scattercat's post that it gave it an air of eeriness. It's possible, though, that that could have been given to us in a different way so that we don't feel cheated for not having seen the denouement of that plot line. But yeah, I'm with I think my favorite listener summation was NomadicScribe's "enthusiastic two thumbs meh." I couldn't find who posted it, but, yeah, even though I didn't hate this one, it could have used a few more re-writes.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: DKT on September 07, 2011, 09:42:05 PM
Don't tell me I'm the only one who got the Springsteen reference??

("Radio Nowhere" is a song with the lyric "Is there anybody alive out there?")

Nah, I got it too - Big fan of The Boss here  :D

I look forward to reading/listening to The Ghost of Tom Joad over at Pseudopod and Magic (too easy) Devil's Arcade at PodCastle ;D
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: eytanz on September 07, 2011, 09:49:10 PM
The Leonard Cohen reference in the latest PC title (haven't listened to the story yet, so I don't know if there are more) is good enough for me.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: El Barto on September 08, 2011, 03:35:09 AM
This story had such potential but turned out to be a glass of lumpy milk.   I was quite disappointed at how the story advanced and with the many plot weaknesses that others have pointed out.   

The chances of the girl pining for the guy for 15 years are slim -- especially since they continued to be friends.   The main character was a scientist running a particle accelerator but has no apparent scientific curiosity about what is happening?  He doesn't discuss it with his colleagues?   Nobody notices the entire experiment turning on and off in the middle of the night and causing all of the lights on campus to go out and in?  Nobody else notices the past flickering in and out?   No resolution on the disembodied voice or exploration of other universes?  No efforts to send a message to himself "through the past" by scratching something on a cave wall and then seeing if it remained when the past flickered away?   

Oh well.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: kibitzer on September 09, 2011, 03:45:33 AM
This story had such potential but turned out to be a glass of lumpy milk. 

Eew. Eeeeeeew. Thanks. I've just had lunch (...runs to the nearest bucket)
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Thomas on September 09, 2011, 04:45:03 AM
This story had such potential but turned out to be a glass of lumpy milk. 

Eew. Eeeeeeew. Thanks. I've just had lunch (...runs to the nearest bucket)

Goof ...

lol
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: eagle37 on September 09, 2011, 08:37:28 AM
Truly disappointing story. Liam is a total failure as a person and as a character. His obsession doesn't come over ass enuine or heartrending, only as weak, and his inability to notice his friend Ziggy's attentions was almost laughable. Ziggy was equally weak as a person, if she was happy to doormat around this dweeb for fifteen year, loving him from afar and being ignored.

You can get away with 'weak' characters, but there has to be something that makes us care about them. I couldn't find anything about either of these I gave a fig about.

The so-called twist at the end was crudely telegraphed, and the voice in the static was a classic example of a writing mistake called 'the gun on the mantlepiece'. To paraphrase "if there's a gun on the mantlepeice in act one, it dsmn well better be fired by act three" - meaning dont tease with irrelevent plots. The desolate voice was never developed, and ended up ass a red herring
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: LaShawn on September 09, 2011, 10:06:52 PM
Ughh...and I just finished a rant over at the Podcastle over weak-willed characters who are idiots, too. Everyone else has pretty much said what was wrong with the story, so I'm not going to rehash it--only gonna say "meh." Wilson's reading was awesome, though.

And I thought manmade ponds only went in a few feet deep or so. Maybe today is a good day to start up listening to PsuedoPod.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: kibitzer on September 10, 2011, 12:20:25 AM
Maybe today is a good day to start up listening to PsuedoPod.

Any day is a good day to start listening to Pseudopod ;-)
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on September 13, 2011, 02:00:03 PM
And I thought manmade ponds only went in a few feet deep or so.

I expect you could make them as deep as you wanted.  It would probably depend on what functions you wanted the pond to serve, just decoration, or for fish or boating, or whatever.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: stePH on September 13, 2011, 06:01:28 PM
Plus, the "is anyone out there?" voice on the radio was just left dangling with no explanation. I was expecting that voice was going to turn out to be Liam's - finding himself thrown out of the timestream or some such after his hubristic attempt to monkey with the universe.

So, sorry...overall one of your less satisfying presentations.

This. It's a Chekhov's Gun that misfires.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: mbrennan on September 18, 2011, 03:15:19 AM
Maybe it's just my scarring experience with Perrin in the Wheel of Time talking, but I don't find the attitude of "The person I love is the ONLY THING IN THE WORLD THAT MATTERS" romantic in the slightest.  Especially when you're apparently willing to accept unspecified amounts of collateral damage in the course of saving that one person.  If my husband risked the mass death of others to save me, I'd leave him.

I agree with, well, all the criticisms that have gone before, but want to add that I'd actually prefer to leave Ziggy's decision to walk out onto the water unexplained, if the explanation on tap is that she was suicidal.  I was really afraid the story would go the route of "he saves Jackie, but has spent those fifteen years grieving over Ziggy instead."

Honestly, what I really wanted was for Ziggy to show up that night with a gun and try to murder Liam.  It's the reverse of the obsession I complained about at the start of this comment: if on one side of the scales there's the person I love, and on the other side there's a crap-ton of other people -- in this case, maybe the entire world -- and one is going to cost me the other, I'd like to think I'm a moral enough person to choose the greater good.  And that, at least, would not have been so predictable of an ending.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on September 19, 2011, 01:57:31 PM
Maybe it's just my scarring experience with Perrin in the Wheel of Time talking, but I don't find the attitude of "The person I love is the ONLY THING IN THE WORLD THAT MATTERS" romantic in the slightest.  Especially when you're apparently willing to accept unspecified amounts of collateral damage in the course of saving that one person.  If my husband risked the mass death of others to save me, I'd leave him.

I'm glad I'm not the only one!  I've been reading the WoT one last time to be ready for the final book's release, and some of the character relationships really drive me nuts.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: CryptoMe on September 22, 2011, 05:18:55 AM
I thought this story was okay.

Sure it had flaws, but for some reason they didn't bug me as much as they did so many others on this thread. And I didn't find the duck, the radio voice, or Ziggy walking out on water to be particularly confusing. Though I did have a problem with a pond that is deep enough to drown in (I've never seen one).

But otherwise, an unexceptional story.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: digitalbusker on October 03, 2011, 06:26:38 PM
I'm way behind on my EP listening, but I had to comment on this story. I'd like to lobby for the addition of some new warning categories before EP episodes.

Warning: Contains a supposedly brilliant scientist with the emotional maturity of an eighth grader who evaluates paradigm-shattering new scientific discoveries solely on the basis of how they can be used to affect his or her love life.
Extra Warning: This character is the protagonist, and his or her obsession is the plot. All of it.
Warning: Contains a supposedly strong and outspoken character who nevertheless is incapable of expressing his or her interest in the protagonist except in the most passive-agressive ways possible.
Extra Warning: No, seriously, this character actually says "That's your problem, $protagonist_name! You can't see what's right in front of your face!" Without. Apparent. Irony.

I have no wish to deny this kind of story to people who might enjoy it for some reason, but it would be nice to have some warning beforehand.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Umbrageofsnow on October 04, 2011, 08:47:55 AM
I thought this was a very human story of a man hung up on the past for far too long. The resolution is a key moment of personal growth for our protagonist, and that's really what I ask for in a story. I'm glad Liam finally reaches the acceptance part of his grieving process.

I don't want to go into depth arguing about perceived plot holes, it seems like reasonable answers have already been posted (most of which are conclusions I came to on my own), but the existence of those answers does little to calm the complaints of people who didn't come up with them.  So I'll just say that I thought the plot made perfect sense, and the radio broadcasts aren't sent by Anton Chekov and needn't behave accordingly.

Also I don't think you can claim to hate a story based on thinking an arbitrary number of years is an excessive number and this story really stands on the merits of character growth backed up by spooky atmosphere.

I didn't detect much whining, just being hung up, and I've seen real life examples of almost everything in the story besides the time travel.  This one really worked for me, and I wasn't going to post so late, but reading the comments I realized the minority need one more voice.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on October 04, 2011, 02:12:08 PM
Also I don't think you can claim to hate a story based on thinking an arbitrary number of years is an excessive number and this story really stands on the merits of character growth backed up by spooky atmosphere.

You can claim to hate a story based on whatever you like, really.   Aren't opinions fun?  ;D 
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Umbrageofsnow on October 04, 2011, 04:35:46 PM
Haha, true.  I just mean that dismissing a whole story on one or two words seems unlikely, and perhaps people are dissatisfied with character or atmosphere or plot elements which I was not, even though the complaints seem to be mostly about more trivial things.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on October 05, 2011, 01:39:12 PM
Haha, true.  I just mean that dismissing a whole story on one or two words seems unlikely, and perhaps people are dissatisfied with character or atmosphere or plot elements which I was not, even though the complaints seem to be mostly about more trivial things.

Fair enough.  You might be right, and I was mostly just teasing.  :)
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: deflective on October 11, 2011, 02:09:03 AM
a flawed story, most weaknesses have already been covered here.

i just wanted bring up a pet peeve (or back up it up, if someone already mentioned it).  i'm not sure when "quantum" became a special word that changes arbitrary fantasy magic into scifi but i'm hoping the trend ends soon.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Kaa on October 11, 2011, 02:12:23 AM
Ugh, you and me both, deflective.

I also would like to put in my request to the universe to please make the real-life woo-woo types stop using it as an explanation for everything from UFOs to homeopathy.

Oh, and while I'm at it, I'd like a pony.

Oh! And world peace.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Scattercat on October 11, 2011, 04:09:28 AM
Don't read White Wolf's game, Aberrant, where "quantum" is tossed in about every other word and used to explain everything from Reed Richards' costume stretching with him to a living plant-man.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Ocicat on October 11, 2011, 04:17:43 AM
Quantum might get replaced as the magical word du-jour.  In the recent comic book series Stormwatch a character has "dark mater DNA" - which of course allows them to do any kind of magic junk they feel like.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Kaa on October 11, 2011, 09:28:59 AM
The other thing that bugs me is that the word "quantum" itself actually means "the smallest discrete quantity of some physical property that a system can possess."

It really got under my skin on the show "Quantum Leap" and in the way it gets used...well, pretty much everywhere. I've heard news anchors say things like "this new technology is a quantum leap forward for <some company>," and I KNOW they have no idea what they're really saying.

But I'm off-topic. This isn't the Pet Peeves Discussion Board.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Listener on October 11, 2011, 12:59:34 PM
Quantum might get replaced as the magical word du-jour.  In the recent comic book series Stormwatch a character has "dark mater DNA" - which of course allows them to do any kind of magic junk they feel like.

*cough* midichlorians *cough*
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on October 11, 2011, 01:41:18 PM
The other thing that bugs me is that the word "quantum" itself actually means "the smallest discrete quantity of some physical property that a system can possess."

It really got under my skin on the show "Quantum Leap" and in the way it gets used...well, pretty much everywhere. I've heard news anchors say things like "this new technology is a quantum leap forward for <some company>," and I KNOW they have no idea what they're really saying.

But I'm off-topic. This isn't the Pet Peeves Discussion Board.

According to Dictionary.com, the general definition is actually just "a particular amount".  The definition you quoted is very science-specific, which is fair enough, since its misuse tends to be in science fiction.

Not that this definition works any better with the general use, as a "quantum leap forward" then just means "a leap forward of a particular amount" which is so vague as to be meaningless.  That one aggravates me too.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: eytanz on October 11, 2011, 02:51:40 PM
Quantum might get replaced as the magical word du-jour.  In the recent comic book series Stormwatch a character has "dark mater DNA" - which of course allows them to do any kind of magic junk they feel like.

*cough* midichlorians *cough*

Nah, there's a difference between misusing a scientific term, and just making up a nonsense word.

Unblinking is right, the definition that Kaa gave for "quantum" is a relatively recent one that's used within the field of physics. The word itself has been around for a lot longer, and just means "a quantity" or "something that has quantity" (The OED gives references from the 16th century for that meaning, while the first use in the sense Kaa gave is from 1910). Of course, as Unblinking also points out, most of the SF that uses the term quantum doesn't use it to mean "quantity", it uses it to mean "impressive word that can be used to make anything we imagine sound science-y". As far as the term "quantum leap", though, it can just mean "a leap you can measure". Which is probably not what the newscasters Kaa refers to mean, but who knows?
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Sgarre1 on October 11, 2011, 05:47:02 PM
True (on the general, non-scientific specific meaning of "quantum") - the British seem to use it in that definition fairly often (although maybe that's more last century) as I ran into it in that context in early Ballard and Ian Fleming (see its use, from a Fleming short story title, in the second Daniel Craig Bond film A QUANTUM OF SOLACE).
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Gamercow on October 11, 2011, 08:50:34 PM
A "quantum leap" is a very specific term that is very real.  It refers to the transition of an electron to a higher or lower state.  The "leap" refers to there being no transition, but rather an instantaneous shift from one energy level to another.  Often these shifts lead to emissions of radiation, including photons, aka light. 

The term used in the news refers to the very sudden state change, and is definitely overused and trite. 
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: kibitzer on October 12, 2011, 02:12:42 AM
A "quantum leap" is a very specific term that is very real.  It refers to the transition of an electron to a higher or lower state.  The "leap" refers to there being no transition, but rather an instantaneous shift from one energy level to another.  Often these shifts lead to emissions of radiation, including photons, aka light. 

The term used in the news refers to the very sudden state change, and is definitely overused and trite. 

Pffft. As if. Everyone knows it's the name of a sci-fi show from the early 90's.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Umbrageofsnow on October 13, 2011, 10:14:05 AM
And so, Gamercow finds himself leaping from thread to thread, striving to put right what once was defined wrong.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Wilson Fowlie on October 18, 2011, 07:48:42 PM
And so, Gamercow finds himself leaping from thread to thread, striving to put right what once was defined wrong.

 :D
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Gamercow on October 18, 2011, 09:03:20 PM
And so, Gamercow finds himself leaping from thread to thread, striving to put right what once was defined wrong.

Oh boy!
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: TrapperDan on November 09, 2011, 07:42:30 PM
By the end of this story I was praying that Ziggy would just push his self centered, blinder wearing, hunched shouldered, perpetually crying, 35 year old emo-kid,  narcissistic ass out in to traffic and just be done with it.  Seriously, screw Lee. Screw Lee and his moping woe is me over a woman who probably would have dumped his stifling ass had she lived.  The fact that Ziggy carried a torch for him for 15+ years is the only part of the story that made me sad.  Searching back in my mind, I am at a loss to find a main character whom I hated with a deeper passion.  

However,
Please tell me more about the horror world that the radio kept hinting at! I kept waiting and waiting, hoping there was something right around the corner, but no, nothing but simpering Lee and his pathetic corpse-humping modus operandi.

By the tenth year, any friend who really loved him would have bear-maced him every time he started to get all hitchy or butthurt.... staring off with weepy remembrance at "the intersection"  They sell bear-mace in containers roughly the size of a small fire extinguisher, which should be roughly enough for someone who had to endure his perpetual BS for that long to extract a small bit of satisfaction through the act.

That said, if this story managed to get such a vitriolic reaction out of me, it can't be considered by myself to be a BAD story.  I just found myself riding such a feel-good high from Midnight Blue, only to be torn down to the miserable world of Lee.

Edit: "Lee" is actually "Liam" however he remains possibly the most insufferable douche ever to walk the face of the earth.  Ever.  Like before recorded history, up til now.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: ElectricPaladin on November 09, 2011, 07:55:13 PM
Please tell me more about the horror world that the radio kept hinting at! I kept waiting and waiting, hoping there was something right around the corner, but no, nothing but simpering Lee and his pathetic corpse-humping modus operandi.

Pathetic Corpse-Humping Modus Operandi would make a great name for a band!

No, no it wouldn't.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Talia on November 09, 2011, 08:07:21 PM
Please tell me more about the horror world that the radio kept hinting at! I kept waiting and waiting, hoping there was something right around the corner, but no, nothing but simpering Lee and his pathetic corpse-humping modus operandi.

Pathetic Corpse-Humping Modus Operandi would make a great name for a band!

No, no it wouldn't.

Coincidentally, that's what I named my cat.

Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Wilson Fowlie on November 09, 2011, 08:11:50 PM
Pathetic Corpse-Humping Modus Operandi would make a great name for a band!

No, no it wouldn't.

Coincidentally, that's what I named my cat.

Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?

Only if you call it by its full name every time.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Scattercat on November 10, 2011, 01:26:18 PM
Cats don't hump corpses.  That's just sick and wrong.

Cats eat them, on the grounds that you're clearly not going to be feeding them any other way.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on November 10, 2011, 03:00:29 PM
By the tenth year, any friend who really loved him would have bear-maced him every time he started to get all hitchy or butthurt.... staring off with weepy remembrance at "the intersection"  They sell bear-mace in containers roughly the size of a small fire extinguisher, which should be roughly enough for someone who had to endure his perpetual BS for that long to extract a small bit of satisfaction through the act.

There's such a thing as bear-mace?  We don't have a lot of bears in my area, but I thought that if you met a bear the best path was to avoid pissing it off.  I would've thought that pepper spray would just provoke a bear into violence.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: InfiniteMonkey on November 10, 2011, 04:59:38 PM
There's such a thing as bear-mace?  We don't have a lot of bears in my area, but I thought that if you met a bear the best path was to avoid pissing it off.  I would've thought that pepper spray would just provoke a bear into violence.

Oh yeah. Hell, I thought mace was invented for bears. They hate pepper spray. And if you blind them with it, you have a chance of getting out of their kill zone.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: ElectricPaladin on November 10, 2011, 05:01:41 PM
No no no. A bear mace is like a boar spear. In this case, it's a metal war club designed for hunting bears. As you can imagine, it's a big-ass club.
Title: Re: EP306: Radio Nowhere
Post by: Unblinking on November 10, 2011, 05:20:13 PM
There's such a thing as bear-mace?  We don't have a lot of bears in my area, but I thought that if you met a bear the best path was to avoid pissing it off.  I would've thought that pepper spray would just provoke a bear into violence.

Oh yeah. Hell, I thought mace was invented for bears. They hate pepper spray. And if you blind them with it, you have a chance of getting out of their kill zone.

Huh, good to know!  :)