Escape Artists
Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: eytanz on September 01, 2011, 08:29:14 PM
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EP308: Kill Me (http://escapepod.org/2011/09/01/ep308-kill-me/)
by Vylar Kaftan (http://vylarkaftan.com/)
Read by Mur Lafferty
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I’m sitting cross-legged on a rock in west Texas, somewhere north of El Paso, bleeding into the dirt. The pose feels like a meditation. I’m fascinated with the knife mark on my left thigh, a shallow slash from hip to knee. It’s surrounded by bruise clusters that look like flowers of broken skin. In the silent desert, I hear only the soft clicking of the car cooling down. Then his urine splashes against the rock behind me, and I hear his zipper when he’s done. The night breeze is icy on my back, drying the blood into clots. He did me well, I admit, glancing up at the full desert moon. If my body survived–which it wouldn’t–I would be scarred, possibly disfigured. The welts on my back throb like electricity, and everything–the moon, the desert, the wind–is alive with me.
He walks in front of me. I look up at the man who brought me all the way from Denver. He looks like a black dog, matted and angry, and growls like one too. My eyes travel to the cluster of thick hair springing from his shirt neck. He folds his arms over his chest.
“The night’s almost over,” I remind him.
He scowls. “Get in the trunk.”
I hesitate–he paid me to do the shy-girl act, a popular one–and he grabs my arm. He hauls me over the rear bumper into the trunk of his ’33 Axis. He slaps me once across the face–not as hard as I expected–and crumples me into the tight compartment. He slams the trunk closed, catching my hair in the door. I try to pull free, but it’s no use. I don’t think he meant that part, but he doesn’t seem to notice the long trail of hair hanging out of the trunk. The car door opens and the ignition starts. I tug on my hair once more and then relax, concentrating on where I hurt, where my body throbs with pain.
As many times as I’ve done this, I still try to experience it all. Because it’s not every day you experience death. Only every three months.
Rated inappropriate for seventeen and younger due to language and violence.
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I am the King Under the Mountain... and all I have to say is that I'm already looking forward to listening to this story. The preview makes it look delicious, and Vylar Kaftan rarely fails me. Hopefully I'll get to it today.
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I found this story incredibly disappointing. In fact, I hated it. I was tempted to turn it off, but I kept on listening because I have a lot of faith in Vylar Kaftan and hoped it would get better. I hated the way the story reduced masochism to a desire to die and sadism to a desire to kill - actually, both fantasies are quite rare. I hated that all the men in the story were jerks, and that the only positively depicted sadist - the narrator's former play partner - was a woman. The story infuriated me from about the one-quarter mark all the way to the finish.
I can't fault the craft of the story. Kaftan is a very good writer, and it shows in the prose. The story is very well-paced, the descriptions just bloody enough to thrill, and the character's predicament exquisitely explicated. If it weren't for the stuff I hated, I would have liked this story quite a lot.
But the story... I found the story itself to be intolerably small-minded.
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This one didn't work that well for me mainly because the central idea of contract between Antonio and Ada isn't convincing and neither is their whole encounter.
Firstly Antonio says he knows Ada doesn't do it for the money but Ada has already shown she's not getting a thrill from it anymore but needs the money to buy new bodies. Then idea that Antonio believes he owns Ada doesn't hold up. It's obvious she can either scam the contract and not be found out, she travels the world after all who would know if she indulged her peccadillo in some dive in Poland? Or of course she still has the choices of voiding the contract and choosing to die when her last clone expires or, as she actually chooses to do, she can void it and go back to work.
Maybe if as part of the contract the backup device was altered so that if it detected Ada was feeling pain and enjoying it it would stop working that might have made it more of a real dilemma for her.
On a separate strand I wonder what female readers made of the story and would they have felt differently about it if the author had been a man. There has been a debate for some time in relation to violence against women in crime books:- http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/oct/25/jessica-mann-crime-novels-anti-women (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2009/oct/25/jessica-mann-crime-novels-anti-women)
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This is somewhat a fox and scorpion style story.
Why did the scorpion sting the fox and drown, because its a scorpion.
She is a masochist with death fantasies... why does she still do it, she is a scorpion.
Humans are human and do things that are bad for them even if they know better because they are human.
Edit as a response to a previous poster, this is a case of absence makes the heart grow fonder, she stopped getting a thrill from it, till she had it taken away from her.
I believe Ada got the thrill back after not having done it for a year, she lost the thrill because it became a chore...
I play MMO's and after a while playing them, they become a terrible chore and I cant stand playing anymore, then I leave the game and come back a year, maybe more maybe less later and its fun again. Its not exactly the same, but I think you see where I might be going here.
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I play MMO's and after a while playing them, they become a terrible chore and I cant stand playing anymore, then I leave the game and come back a year, maybe more maybe less later and its fun again. Its not exactly the same, but I think you see where I might be going here.
I'm sad to say the first thing I thought of when reading this apt-enough comparison was, "If you die in the game, you die for real." Which I personally still think was far more interestingly present in the book "Kill o Byte" by Piers Anthony.
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I liked this story. The premise drew me in, and the plot held a fair amount of intrigue and suspense for me. The conflict at the end, however, was too tantalizing. I feel like she got off too easy. Moreover, there was never an explanation of what measures Antonio was going to take to prevent her from practicing masochism. Legal means? Technological? In any case, she gets out of it too easily, and that diminishes the impact of her decision to sign the papers. You want to REALLY own someone, make sure they can never get out of a binding legal entanglement.
Other than a too-simple ending, I have to say that I really enjoyed the themes of power and control. These are issues that people deal with in everyday life to one degree or another, whether it's relationships or car payments or deciding whether you want to support politicians that want to expand the government or politicians who want to expand corporations. But here it is expanded to life-or-death extremes. It was bold to go there.
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The masochist cries out, "Beat me, beat me!"
"No," said the sadist.
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I was amused at the story's ability to take that (very old) joke and weave a full narrative out of it. However, I found the story itself unsatisfying. From a purely mechanical perspective, the episode at the beginning is slightly disconnected from the main plot. Yes, we see Ada's initial reaction to the thought of dying permanently, but it felt like a little bit too long just to establish that single fact about her. When the mysterious gentleman caller turned out to be Johnny Random from her past, I was slightly disappointed that Chekhov's Gun had been ignored. Not a major gripe; I like to see intricate mechanisms and watch how they fit together, and I was disappointed that there was no unifying thread involved.
The ending left me a little flat as well. I am about as far from either a sadist or a masochist as one can get. (I suspect I am what Ada would sneeringly refer to as "soft-hearted," in that I dislike seeing pain inflicted and abhor inflicting it myself.) However, I have to guess that even the extremely kinky among us would agree that someone seriously considering suicide in the name of temporary semi-sexual satisfaction is someone who is damaged and needs therapy or assistance. Enjoying the feeling of ceding control to someone else is one thing, but permanent self-harm is quite another.
When Ada has her realization of what Antonio truly did (and frankly I'm a little confused that she didn't see it right away), I thought for a moment that she'd finally understood her kink, that she'd grokked the idea of winning by losing, of gaining control by giving it away, and that she would proceed to flout Antonio by truly enjoying her life under his strictures. Masochistically refusing to participate in masochism, as it were. :-) Instead, she merely breaks the contract and goes back to her old life, just as if he really were a partner who'd ignored her safeword. I can't see that as a triumph, which is what the story seems to imply it was. Antonio won; he told her he would own her and control her, and in the end she admits that he totally did beat her and leaves the game they were playing. I do see the thread of her suicidal tendencies, how she wanted real death and thus was unsatisfied with the imitation, but now is able to embrace the imitation and actively lead her own life, but to me that feels like a relatively hollow victory. Ada doesn't really change much by the end of the story; after all, she was afraid of dying "for real" in that opening scene, so it's not like she was actively suicidal then, either. Her suicidal tendencies surfaced only under Antonio's somewhat cruel legacy. (And who wouldn't start to exhibit signs of mental stress if forcibly kept from release? It takes a special kind of person to be a monk.)
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Another good idea -- one that I've had myself, but Ms Kaftan got it published before I even started writing it, so good on her for that -- that didn't really work in execution. If this was just a story about a professional masochist, or someone who gets killed for a living, that's one thing. But then there was this whole BDSM subtext added that, to me, just felt... incorrect. I don't think Ada being into BDSM added a ton to the story, and in fact, as someone who has been a part of that community, it didn't seem right to me*. Maybe that's because of the framing that had to be done -- Ada, talking about the clubs all the time in her internal monologue, the little addition that Skye is a woman and Ada has slept with her... none of it seemed to fit the story, and I think we really could've had a good story without all of the kink background.
And then there was the ending, which seemed to keep... on... going... I realize the author was trying to get to a point where Ada went back to the company, but it took too long, and the whole thing with the Russian and the money was not only completely transparent but also slowed and weakened the story. I mean, why not have a perfectly "normal" mugging?
Overall, not a fan of the execution.
* Now, having said that... I have friends who have gotten more and more kinky until they've passed all MY lines...
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Yawn.... another S&M story. I was interested in it until it was revealed that she was a masochist. It would've been a lot more intriguing if she were dying only for money.
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I was really worried by the warning at the beginning, and am quite glad that it was included. It allowed me to prepare myself enough that I got through the story fine, but it's just not in me to enjoy this kind of story. Somehow it always seems that this author's stories would sit more comfortably in Pseudopod or the Drabblecast, though I understand why it ran here.
It seemed like Ada herself couldn't figure out what her true motivations were: did she want the job for the money or for the thrill? She seemed to change back and forth throughout the narrative, in a back and forth kind of way rather than a character arc kind of way.
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The premise of this was really interesting, with the government regulations that no second copy of a person's mind can ever exist, with the job of the death-workers who get paid to be killed and the messed-up encouragement of the killers--hey look, you can practice amateur killing until you get it just perfect and then you can go pro.
I thought the part up until her old acquaintance showing up was really good, interesting character, great worlbuilding. Then it really dragged for the rest of the time. He even explains to her exactly what his ulterior plan is, and she's not paying attention by that time, counting her money. The contract was kind of ridiculous in that it had no way to be enforced. Here, take all the money, and THEN you can't hurt yourself forever. Riiiight. Because she couldn't hurt herself on the side, or take an unofficial job, or just spend all the money and then take the job, or any number of other perfectly viable options. It just seemed like he considered it his grand master plan despite it being completely unenforced agreement. And then in the end she suddenly "realizes" his plan, the one that's just like his explanation he made before he died to which she was not paying attention. So that wasn't much of a grand revelation.
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Because she couldn't hurt herself on the side, or take an unofficial job, or just spend all the money and then take the job, or any number of other perfectly viable options. It just seemed like he considered it his grand master plan despite it being completely unenforced agreement. And then in the end she suddenly "realizes" his plan, the one that's just like his explanation he made before he died to which she was not paying attention. So that wasn't much of a grand revelation.
I think there were two things at work here:
1. She's a sub, so by submitting to Antonio, even though he's dead, her mental wiring won't let her disobey outright.
2. To guarantee there's only one copy of each person's mind, maybe there's a procedure the doctors have to go through, and if her new memories from the preservation device involve her harming herself or consenting to be harmed she will lose the money that way. But that would've slowed down a slow section even more.
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1. She's a sub, so by submitting to Antonio, even though he's dead, her mental wiring won't let her disobey outright.
Sorry, but no. I've known subs, and there's nothing special about them. They aren't magical obedient slave people. They do whatever the hell they want, just like everyone else. Even those subs who like to think that they are magical obedient slave people are only so because they choose to be so, day after day.
2. To guarantee there's only one copy of each person's mind, maybe there's a procedure the doctors have to go through, and if her new memories from the preservation device involve her harming herself or consenting to be harmed she will lose the money that way. But that would've slowed down a slow section even more.
I agree that this is a major enough plot hole that it should have been closed, even if it meant adding another passage or shortening another part of the story.
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2. To guarantee there's only one copy of each person's mind, maybe there's a procedure the doctors have to go through, and if her new memories from the preservation device involve her harming herself or consenting to be harmed she will lose the money that way. But that would've slowed down a slow section even more.
If there had been any evidence of this in story, it all would've been a much stronger dilemma for her. But I saw absolutely no indication of this. It sounded to me like, as long as she could pay she would be restored in return for the money. I saw nothing that even hinted that those doing the procedure would be willing or even able to do such a checking procedure.
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The masochist cries out, "Beat me, beat me!"
"No," said the sadist.
Heh. Yeah, that pretty much encapsulates it, doesn't it?
I was predisposed to not like this. I have problems with authors celebrating outre sexuality greatly (and even though there was specifically no coitus, I'd still call this a sexuality story because in the minds of most people BDSM is a "sex thing"), not because I think it's immoral or indecent, but because it so often seems like the author is bragging about how cool they are that they'll push the envelope. This is my barrier to entry for the Kushiel books.
And for a moment, I thought that was NOT where this was going, in the middle. But then it was.
There are also several logical - well, perhaps social - problems. The narrator can tell herself that she's helping people act out their aggressions in a safe way, and while I can't conceive why anyone would willingly make themselves into an object, let alone an object for someone's anger, she would only be helping someone with money, leaving me to ponder the fate of the poor sadistic sociopaths of this society.
But the story seems to want it both ways. On the one hand, the guy nearly really kills her "reads" as poor, though we later learn this costs, while on the other hand, her benefactor is ridiculously wealthy (bringing in all those tired cliches of the "sophisticated wealthy gentleman" from de Sade and "The Story of O").
All to make the point that she's not afraid of death, and so that makes her scary. Hell, I would have gone with assassin or merc, but I suppose that would be completely counter to characters base persona.
Yeah, I get the "what if" - "what if you didn't have to restrain yourself in this situation?", but I have trouble seeing the benefits of that. Perhaps listening to it on a sunny day in a park full of life made it hard to embrace death.
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1. She's a sub, so by submitting to Antonio, even though he's dead, her mental wiring won't let her disobey outright.
Sorry, but no. I've known subs, and there's nothing special about them. They aren't magical obedient slave people. They do whatever the hell they want, just like everyone else. Even those subs who like to think that they are magical obedient slave people are only so because they choose to be so, day after day.
Yes, true. I wasn't saying "this is how all subs are", but "this is my opinion as to why Ada does what she does".
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There was was amusing little detail (something which probably tells something about sex norms US culture):
You may kill me in any way you want; you may torture me in any way you can possible think off. Do you want to have sex with me? Ow, that would be gross!!
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The very concept that this would ever be legal and especially that it would ever be considered a "healthy" way for psychopaths to vent their anger so completely took me out of the story I never got back into it. Well, in full disclosure, I probably never would have gotten into the story anyway: As with Scattercat, I'm as far removed from the S&M culture as I can get, so the S&M nature of it kept me from getting very involved in it. And like Devoted135, the warning helped me prepare for what was to come (though I was expecting worse), but it's not in me, either, to enjoy this kind of story. So this was obviously a dud for me.
But I do celebrate that all kinds are represented here and that we all seem to get along remarkably well, especially for a largely anonymous forum. That's why I love these boards!
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The very concept that this would ever be legal and especially that it would ever be considered a "healthy" way for psychopaths to vent their anger so completely took me out of the story I never got back into it.
This aspect is actually what drew me in. I was intrigued by the concept of a society so morally depraved it allowed people to schedule the occasional murder, thanks to the existence of apparent resurrection technology.
Of course, on that subject, looking back, I'd have to say that was my number one real problem with the story. The fact that there was no continuity of consciousness for this character, but only an endless stream of new bodies, with her memories transferred from one to the next. I strongly object to the concept that implanting your memories into a clone is the "same thing" as continuing to stay alive.
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I've been involved in the BDSM culture for 15 years or so, so I wasn't put off by that aspect of this story.
The opening intrigued me, as I thought it would be about exploring the idea of what BDSM would be like when people can "die and get better." Does giving people a vent for this kind of desire prevent real violence? Interesting stuff.
Then it shifted gears, and became more about Ada's motivations and a sex worker who wants to get out of "the life." Also an interesting area to explore, though not as science-fictional as the first.
Then another shift, and it becomes about Antonio and Ada's relationship. Antonio is a bit of a cliche, the fabulously wealthy kinky aristocrat complete with mansion and servants, and the bit about him dying is straight out of The Image and Flower and Snake. But I was willing to go with that.
The bit about Antonio's will shows a confusion between the dominant/submissive axis and the sadist/masochist axis of BDSM. Antonio has no interest in witnessing Ada's extreme physical and emotional states, but only wants to control her. Ada is primarily a masochist, and being submissive is incidental to that. When Ada agrees to Antonio's terms without even reading the fine print, she's being remarkably stupid and acting in a way that doesn't really make sense given what we've seen before.
In my experience, masochists are actually highly controlling people. (Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, whose name is the basis for masochism, was manipulative and abusive towards his wife, Aurora Rumelin, until she left him for trying to get her to cuckold him.) This may be a necessary aspect of the condition, like automatically closing your eyes when you sneeze. The opening suggests that Ada knows how to manipulate her "killers", but she seemed to have abandoned that ability, and it's kind of pathetic to see her reduced to begging men in alleys to kill her.
I also object to the story's suggestion that the ultimate expression of masochism is a death wish. I know that one of the endings of The Story of O is that O asks permission to kill herself and gets it, but I prefer to think of masochism as an embrace of life, or a trickster-like narrative of death and resurrection.
I think the author didn't properly think through her ideas in this story. What we get is about three stories bolted together that loosely fit but don't really have a through-line.
Like other people, I had some logic problems with this story: how Antonio's control over Ada could be enforced, for one. For another, it sounds like the "only one backup per person" is mandated by law, not a limitation of the technology, and what are huge amounts of money for if not circumventing the law? It also wasn't clear that clone bodies only last three months because of a necessary physical condition.
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For another, it sounds like the "only one backup per person" is mandated by law, not a limitation of the technology, and what are huge amounts of money for if not circumventing the law?
Can I make that my new tagline?
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This aspect is actually what drew me in. I was intrigued by the concept of a society so morally depraved it allowed people to schedule the occasional murder….
Ah, interesting. I didn't think of it in terms of a culture/society wholly separate from ours, but as an evolution of our own culture/society. That does put a different twist on it. I'm not sure if that's a lack of imagination on my part, or a shortfall of the story itself. I still didn't like it, but it does frame my perspective differently.
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There was was amusing little detail (something which probably tells something about sex norms US culture):
You may kill me in any way you want; you may torture me in any way you can possible think off. Do you want to have sex with me? Ow, that would be gross!!
I suspect it has less to do with grossness as running afoul of prostitution laws. Which, yes, we Americans have a hangup about. Though it could be just as much that simply wasn't in the contract.
Though I have known people in BDSM culture who will vehemently deny that "it's all about sex". For what it's worth.
It also wasn't clear that clone bodies only last three months because of a necessary physical condition.
This was one of the biggest plotholes for me. It simply seems to be there to force our narrator to go back to work, along with the debt (which is bad enough). Why precisely would a cloned body fail, and at only three months? Why the same time for all of them? Wouldn't some last longer than others?
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Why precisely would a cloned body fail, and at only three months? Why the same time for all of them? Wouldn't some last longer than others?
Dude. Five words. Planned obsolescence.
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the concept behind the story was intriguing
the story itself, bothered me
not everyone's cup of tea.
i do enjoy horror in my scifi and scifi in my horror, but this really isn't horror, is it??
i am not saying that the whole BDSM thing is horror, but how it is treated in this story.... seems to be.
gimme some time, i may look back on this story and say it was a favorite, but right now, as a science fiction story... i am not pleased, but as horror...
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The very concept that this would ever be legal and especially that it would ever be considered a "healthy" way for psychopaths to vent their anger so completely took me out of the story I never got back into it.
I actually think it's a good idea. NO MATTER WHAT, we have some human men (let's face it, it seems like 99% of the people with these urges are men) who have a burning desire to rape/torture/kill women. We can catch them and put them in jail, but so far we just can't FIX them from having this urge. It will happen no matter what until we catch them, but at least some women have to die so they can get their emotional rocks off before we know what they are.
So this seems like the best scenario for dealing with them: have a woman who finds this shit sexy/appealing for whatever weird reason (I'm not an S&M person either), who has to die every 3 months anyway and needs the money to keep existing, and just let them kill her. She's consenting, going to die anyway, and on some level she finds it appealing. The guy gets his ya-yas out (sigh) without killing some poor woman who didn't volunteer for satisfying his urge to kill. Win-win for everyone! I can see why this would work. At least until you get sick of being killed, anyway.
After that point, alas, the story goes off the rails because I kept thinking, "Oh, COME ON, as far as I can tell you still haven't figured out a way to control the woman from beyond the grave, she can take your money and do whatever the fuck she wants afterwards. This is stupid." At the very least, if you wanted to go there with that story, come up with some way for him to prevent her from doing it. Once Antonio comes in, the story starts to suck.
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Oh, man, where to start.
I actually think it's a good idea. NO MATTER WHAT, we have some human men (let's face it, it seems like 99% of the people with these urges are men) who have a burning desire to rape/torture/kill women. We can catch them and put them in jail, but so far we just can't FIX them from having this urge. It will happen no matter what until we catch them, but at least some women have to die so they can get their emotional rocks off before we know what they are.
This attitude is exactly what annoyed me about the story.
First of all, it's not "NO MATTER WHAT." People come from somewhere. Violence begets violence and abuse begets abuse. Pretending that some people are bad "NO MATTER WHAT" is just a good way of excusing yourself from the responsibility to think more clearly and discerningly about the causes of their situations.
Secondly...
So this seems like the best scenario for dealing with them: have a woman who finds this shit sexy/appealing for whatever weird reason (I'm not an S&M person either), who has to die every 3 months anyway and needs the money to keep existing, and just let them kill her. She's consenting, going to die anyway, and on some level she finds it appealing. The guy gets his ya-yas out (sigh) without killing some poor woman who didn't volunteer for satisfying his urge to kill. Win-win for everyone! I can see why this would work. At least until you get sick of being killed, anyway.
I've got to tell you, pretty much everyone I've met in real life who experiences rape and murder fantasies (emphasis mine) is actually a nice, sweet, and friendly person. That's because they are fantasies. The stuff you dismiss as "this shit" is nothing more than a healthy fun-play-sexy-time expression of that fantasy. Someone who fantasizes about eating a chocolate cake doesn't have to eat every chocolate cake they come across. Someone who fantasizes about rape and murder doesn't have to rape and murder. In fact, kinky people are even better off - they get to pretend to indulge in their fantasies and find it satisfying; I challenge you to find someone on a diet who finds it satisfying to pretend to eat cake.
The point is that you've got a right to express your fantasies in safe and personal and so do the kinky. They'd find your fantasies painfully boring and pedestrian; you find theirs squicky and off-putting. Luckily, they don't want to have sex with you. Win-win for everyone.
Again, this is what annoyed me about the story - demonizing fantasies that real people really have and equating them with a desperately unfair, painful, and entrapping situation.
After that point, alas, the story goes off the rails because I kept thinking, "Oh, COME ON, as far as I can tell you still haven't figured out a way to control the woman from beyond the grave, she can take your money and do whatever the fuck she wants afterwards. This is stupid." At the very least, if you wanted to go there with that story, come up with some way for him to prevent her from doing it. Once Antonio comes in, the story starts to suck.
Yeah, well, I agree with you there. The story failed to give Antonio's scheme sufficient support. I couldn't see why it worked, either.
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I actually think it's a good idea. NO MATTER WHAT, we have some human men (let's face it, it seems like 99% of the people with these urges are men) who have a burning desire to rape/torture/kill women. We can catch them and put them in jail, but so far we just can't FIX them from having this urge. It will happen no matter what until we catch them, but at least some women have to die so they can get their emotional rocks off before we know what they are.
So this seems like the best scenario for dealing with them: have a woman who finds this shit sexy/appealing for whatever weird reason (I'm not an S&M person either), who has to die every 3 months anyway and needs the money to keep existing, and just let them kill her. She's consenting, going to die anyway, and on some level she finds it appealing. The guy gets his ya-yas out (sigh) without killing some poor woman who didn't volunteer for satisfying his urge to kill. Win-win for everyone! I can see why this would work. At least until you get sick of being killed, anyway.
I know this isn't worth me trying to argue because I'm not a psychologist, so with that in mind, I'll just state what i think: from what I think I understand about psychopathic abuse is that there is a large factor of a feeling of control for the psychopath. If the person volunteers to be slaughtered, AND has the ability to "resurrect" then I'm not sure the killer would really feel the same satisfaction of control. My guess is that it might work for a little while, but it would escalate into the illegal variety of killing. You might get more "I wonder what it would be like" people who otherwise would live out in idle curiosity, but I don't think it would "cure" the "I have an insatiable desire to torture and kill people!" All that is more or less complete speculation on my part.
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Why precisely would a cloned body fail, and at only three months? Why the same time for all of them? Wouldn't some last longer than others?
Dude. Five words. Planned obsolescence.
I'm cynical enough to have no problem with the idea of planned obsolescence, but how crappy does your product have to be - a fairly large and complicated one in this case - to crap out after only 3 months? Why would anyone sign up for one (apart from the whole, uh, "not dying" thing)? I think even six months would have been more reasonable; again, it seems to me a plot point solely designed to "pull" the character.
And I'd have at least liked an attempt at an explanation as to how this storage device wears the body out in 3 short months (or was this just so it would co-incide with the seasons?). If it was planned obsolescence, just say so.
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NMK - Not My Kink. This story really held no interest to me, as I do not understand the BDSM community or mindset. And don't try to explain it to me, I've had dozens try before. I don't condemn the practice, nor do I think that there is anything wrong with it, I just don't understand it. In the end, this story was as interesting to me as someone talking about Pokemon for 45 minutes.
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Well, I liked it. The concept was interesting enough to keep me engaged, as was the protagonist's dilemmas. I had no problem with the story not including information on how Antonio would keep an eye on her after his death - he was wealthy, there was a number of things he could have done, and I was OK with that being left up to the imagination.
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And I'd have at least liked an attempt at an explanation as to how this storage device wears the body out in 3 short months (or was this just so it would co-incide with the seasons?). If it was planned obsolescence, just say so.
Yeah, this part bugged me as well, since the lack of an explanation seemed to imply it was "obvious" that a cloned body would wear out quickly. And of course it wouldn't last a whole lifetime, but c'mon, three months? Even Dolly lived several years...
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This story left me pretty...squeamish. Which I guess was the effect intended but...::shivers:: I think I'm going to listen to Midnight Blue again.
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A lot of interesting questions and opinions here. I'll add one to the mix, even though it's a question I usually hate: Did the speculative element add anything to the story?
Let's say Ada is a kinky, HIV-positive sex worker who specializes in getting slapped around and needs the money because waitressing wasn't covering the cost of her antiretrovirals. She's got the same death sentence hanging over her head and the solution is still pretty much the same. Enter Antonio who strikes a deal that has absolutely nothing to do with cloning, just like the deal he struck in the story itself has absolutely nothing to do with cloning. I say the arc and the theme remain the same. Which is pity, because the model of cloning that Kaftan posits is actually pretty rich with potential.
Would that story have made it onto Interzone or Escape Pod? Well, no. But hey, there's nothing wrong with branching out to other genres.
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Let's say Ada is a kinky, HIV-positive sex worker who specializes in getting slapped around and needs the money because waitressing wasn't covering the cost of her antiretrovirals.
Well, not to nitpick or anything, but....
That completely changes the dynamic of the story. Ada the cloned sub is just endangering her own life. Ada the HIV positive sex-worker is endangering the lives of others.
I suppose you could come up with a situation where that's not the case - she has cancer instead of HIV.
As for your larger question, what did the speculative elements bring to the story, I think the element is "not dying". She's not afraid of being killed because she knows she can be brought back.
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The story was kinda good and interesting to me--I liked the premise--but it fell kind of flat.
I dug the story all the way up to "no backup copy" of a person is allowed.... the explanation of the tech governed by laws completely removed my suspension of disbelief. Sorry, but if you can bring a person back from death by imprinting a copy into the brain, you can also make that device pretty damn indestructible. And a company so high tech they can clone and imprint people... yeah they are NOT going to waste a valuable asset like Ada.
And why the HELL if you had tons and tons of money and were dying would you not just clone yourself or imprint yourself on a clone of someone else?
I had hoped that the "secret admirer" was Dr Sorrington.
All in all there were a couple of interesting paths this story could have taken, but the one it took left me disappointed.
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I found this story an interesting exploration of the consequences of a possible (though perhaps unlikely technology). I wondered if the story might go in several ways - for example, early on when Ada worries about her implant being destroyed that she might discover later that this had happened on previous jobs and that she had been restored from backup, perhaps several times. Then we get the "no multiple copies" law, which seemed a bit illogical as it greatly lessens the protection that having an implant gives.
Also not very believable was the business that clone bodies only lasted 3 months. Come on guys - a regular body lasts fifty years even if you don't look after it; I can't believe that a cloned body would decay in such a short time. I could buy less than the proverbial three score and ten, but not that much less. If I were the restorations company, I'd change my clone supplier.
Finally, the ending was disappointing. After all her opportunities she just gives up and goes back to the old grind. What sort of character development is that?
Which is not to say that I disliked the story - it explored some intriguing possibilities, as I mentioned. Nevertheless, the story was somewhat flawed IMHO.
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This story started out with an interesting beginning. I was genuinely hooked by the opening section. The writing was clear, precise, and so on.
However, that all changed with the first info-dump. I thought it was pretty clear there was a device which stored her personality etc. Did we really need a full-on explanation? And then there's the info-dump regarding the car crash.
I was disappointed that the rich customer was some random guy from Ada's past. The revolver-on-the-mantelpiece rule (there's a name for it, but I forget) was ignored. Also, the lengthy conversation between Antonio and Ada served only to slow the story down. Antonio came across like a Hannibal Lecter clone (old, seemingly all-knowing, and apparently with a degree in psychology).
The logic regarding the contract has already been covered by other forum-goers (how will anyone ever know if Ada secretly indulges her desires?) so I won't get into that here.
Also, I wonder what the reaction would have been if a male had written a story in which every female character is a bad person (in the same way males are portrayed in this one). Perhaps it would have been better (by which I mean balanced, I guess) if one customer had actually been a female, or a colleague of Ada's was a male masochist? Not all males are dominant. Not all females are submissive.
Like I said at the start of this post, the writing was good, on a technical level. It was easy to get along with, and despite the story's flaws, I got to the end. There were just too many logic-gaps, and I just didn't like the gender assumptions.
I actually think it's a good idea. NO MATTER WHAT, we have some human men (let's face it, it seems like 99% of the people with these urges are men) who have a burning desire to rape/torture/kill women. We can catch them and put them in jail, but so far we just can't FIX them from having this urge. It will happen no matter what until we catch them, but at least some women have to die so they can get their emotional rocks off before we know what they are.
I know you said 99%, but there are actually quite a few females out there with similar urges. Eg. violent relationships in which women are perpetrators, very rarely get reported due to the 'shame' aspect from the man. This underrporting leads to lower statistics, which leads some people to think it doesn't go on. Also, research has shown that while females might be slightly less likely to have these urges, when a female does, she will often take things to a 'higher level' than a male. Basically, a male will generally beat someone up. A female is more likely to carry out 'cruel acts' which are thought out and methodical. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule in both genders. What I'm saying is that I resent the sweeping statement of "lets face it, only guys do this."
(Just to clear something up, I'm not talking about people who are into BDSM etc. I'm talking about people who commit for-the-thrill violent crimes).
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Finally, the ending was disappointing. After all her opportunities she just gives up and goes back to the old grind. What sort of character development is that?
I think that's a reasonable type of character development, the one in which a character has a chance to turn their life around, to really change themselves, and instead they choose to make the same choice. They're not in the same place, because turning down their opportunity to change means something. Either they're trapped by their own compulsions, or are happy with the choices they have made, but they're no longer forced by circumstance to do what they do. And she's aware of that, so she has changed.
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Mostly I liked it. I know some people have a gripe with the 3 months thing, but the explanation that it is the implant which kills the body was enough for me as it is not the main point of the story. The idea of having legal murder, to let people who have these tendencies act them out in a "safe" way is interesting. It did make me wonder what other urges some people have could be made legal. I think if we ever get something like a holodeck, we will find out.
Like most people I did find the contract a little disappointing. There was nothing stated that would prevent Ada from indulging a little, and getting out of the contract was surprisingly easy. If there was some enforcement clause that prevented her from getting out of the contract, now that would have been more interesting. Since the theme seemed to be about control, and Antonio wanted to control someone from beyond the grave, the contract seemed to be rather lacking in the control aspect.
Didn't hate it, but not one of my favorites.
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I really found this story dumb.
- Studies show, killers work up to murder and then go even further from there. So, there is no validity in the premise of sanctioned pseudo murder as a safety valve.
- Masochists don't want to kill themselves, people with suicidal tendencies do.
- Relinquishing power is not a form of power.
I could go on and on with all the little dumb things that tried to pass off as wisdom in this story. It just felt very poorly thought out.
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How do I say this without hurting some felings ? I´ll try to be nice
I earn my money with S/M. I teach S/M, I live S/M.
I know a lot of people who have something to do with S/M.
Stories like this a lot in the S/m forums, not in this quality, but the concept
of someone who cannot die and so you can murder him is something you read
every half year. But if you take all the people who do S/M, people who go to such extrems
are very very seldom, most of them are on the verge of mental illness.
I realize my english is not good enough to convey everything I would like to say,m so I cut this short.
This is a story with mistakes, a lot of the things labeled here as masoschism arent masoschism.
Full body suspension does not hurt, I teach this in "Love Bondage Workshop"
Take the story, but forget the masoschism part, Here is to much just wrong.
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I thought this was a fascinating episode, though it got less fascinating as the story went on. I was hoping they were going to explore the idea of the backups and perhaps the main character finding out she was an illegal backup. Alas, it went in a different direction.
I want to say that stories that explore sexuality are difficult to do well, but this story was written in a way that suggested sex was completely uninvolved, which struck me as bizarre, and somewhat emblematic of contemporary American social mores. Murder me for money? Sure! Any sexual contact first? Crazy! (I could imagine the movie version of this story getting a PG-13 rating -- unless there was some nudity.)
I see that a bunch of people were put off by the lack of detail concerning the enforcement mechanism in the contract. I don't recall the exact language in that scene but my memory is there was a long complicated contract and I assumed there were dozens of pages that described how the creepy rich guy's representatives would monitor her behavior somehow.
A variation of this story I'd love to see someone write is a world where memory drugs are perfected and people can go into a facility, get an injection, and know that whatever they do and say for the next 12 hours they will not remember anything and there would be no record of what happens. Would you go? What would you do? Who would you take with you and what would you tell them, knowing they'd never remember???
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As some others here, I really liked the opening, the whole scene of the first kill, the waking up and so on. But as soon as there was this need to start explaining the technology it quickly went downwards. It just became clear that the author had an interesting idea but no compelling way to tell it. The rules of the world felt arbitrary and only existed to serve the story and the idea of the contract was not very strong (in general, what's up with people thinking they will find pleasure in what happens on earth after their own death, thats just silly.) I have liked some of Kaftans stories before, so it was a minor disappointment. Hopefully next one will be stronger.
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ah, a good old Steve selected story.
technology with half-baked, contrived rules designed to dehumanize & control the protagonist. i don't mind so much when it's just an occasional story like this.
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A variation of this story I'd love to see someone write is a world where memory drugs are perfected and people can go into a facility, get an injection, and know that whatever they do and say for the next 12 hours they will not remember anything and there would be no record of what happens. Would you go? What would you do? Who would you take with you and what would you tell them, knowing they'd never remember???
There are such drugs already; alcohol in sufficient quantities. ;)