Escape Artists

Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: eytanz on May 11, 2012, 07:39:45 AM

Title: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: eytanz on May 11, 2012, 07:39:45 AM
EP344: The Homecoming (http://escapepod.org/2012/05/10/ep344-the-homecoming/)

By Mike Resnick (http://mikeresnick.com/)

Read by Patrick Bazile (http://www.patrickthevoice.com)

Originally appeared in Asimov’s

---

I don’t know which bothers me more, my lumbago or my arthritis. One day it’s one, one day it’s the other. They can cure cancer and transplant every damned organ in your body; you’d think they could find some way to get rid of aches and pains. Let me tell you, growing old isn’t for sissies.

I remember that I was having a typical dream. Well, typical for me, anyway. I was climbing the four steps to my front porch, only when I got to the third step there were six more, so I climbed them and then there were ten more, and it went on and on. I’d probably still be climbing them if the creature hadn’t woke me up.

It stood next to my bed, staring down at me. I blinked a couple of times, trying to focus my eyes, and stared back, sure this was just an extension of my dream.

It was maybe six feet tall, its skin a glistening, almost metallic silver, with multi-faceted bright red eyes like an insect. Its ears were pointed and batlike, and moved independently of its head and each other. Its mouth jutted out a couple of inches like some kind of tube, and looked like it was only good for sucking fluids. Its arms were slender, with no hint of the muscles required to move them, and its fingers were thin and incredibly elongated. It was as weird a nightmare figure as I’d dreamed up in years.

Finally it spoke, in a voice that sounded more like a set of chimes than anything else.

“Hello, Dad,” it said.

That’s when I knew I was awake.


(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif) Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://traffic.libsyn.com/escapepod/EP344_homecoming.mp3)
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Darwinist on May 11, 2012, 11:23:44 AM
Another Resnick short.  Hooray!

Like most other Resnick short stories I've listened to since jumping in to the EP back around episode 70 or so, this one really got me.  I had to wipe my eyes a time or two while driving.   Good stuff.  SSS also did a nice job with this story.  You just can't go wrong with Resnick.  I'll keep this on the iPod for a while and listen again. 
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: InfiniteMonkey on May 11, 2012, 02:13:15 PM
This was deja vu all over again for me, because I'd just heard this yesterday while catching up on old (long) Starship Sofa (Episode 234, if you're interested).

This story ripped my heart out, because I recently lost my SO (like, Sunday), and I almost stopped listening, but I'm glad I continued. Yes, Dad is a bit of a jerk, but of course that makes his coming around that much more moving. And while this is a problem - parents' expectations of and disagreements with their children's choices - is as old as the hills (the story of the prodigal son, and I believe there are hieroglyphics about it), I think the father's argument is not entirely without merit.

At what point are you no longer human? Resnick argues that appearances aren't as important as the "heart", and I agree, but perhaps there is some ne plus ultra line. If Phillip had NOT been so concerned about his mother, I think that line would be crossed, but of course that's the point of the story.

This also gives me a rare opportunity to make a head-to-head comparison of two readings of the same story. I'm not going to be mired in some dumb argument over which is "better" (I don't much care for superlatives, or sometimes even comparatives), but I will say that the Starship Sofa narrator, Matthew Stephens, while also reading in something of a drawl, was even slower and if more possible more heartbreaking. I did like Stephens' voicing of Julia more. But EP has the sound effects for Phillip's voice, which was nice.

(Hey! No feedback!)
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: schizoTypal on May 11, 2012, 03:53:58 PM
Personally, I found the jingling of Philip's voice to be just a little distracting, to say the least. I was entirely nonplussed by the story itself, unfortunately. I felt like the whole alien world, Philip's appearance, and anything else remotely sci-fi in nature were added in as an afterthought for no purpose other than to appeal to a sci-fi audience. I wanted something that could have only happened in the world this story was told in, and got nothing of the sort.

The story itself has been told, and retold, and retold millions of times over. While that doesn't automatically make a new telling without merit, this definitely doesn't strike me as anything to write home about. And I'm one to write home about a great story.

The emotional tugs seemed to be the center of the story, and also had a very manufactured feeling to them.

I suppose in the end, I can see the appeal, and I'm not who it appeals to.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Cattfish on May 12, 2012, 07:41:06 AM
This was deja vu all over again for me, because I'd just heard this yesterday while catching up on old (long) Starship Sofa (Episode 234, if you're interested).

Aha, I thought I was having future flashes, thank you for clearing that up...

To my mind a good story is one where even if the sci-fi is kind of superficial to the plot it doesn't really matter because it's the emotion that drives it.  You could have thrown out the whole alien ambassador part and substituted any sort of long absence and had fundamentally the same story--and that's a good thing.  When you have a good core to your story it can work across any genre. 

Of the nominees i've read so far this one is on top of the list.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: BlueLu on May 12, 2012, 06:58:43 PM
Hmmm.  A bit too on the nose for me, I'd have to say.  It's heart was in the right place, but I just found it too sentimental.

It's nice that the mother's Alzheimers presented as beatific and child-like saintliness. As someone who's seen dementia up close, I can tell you, that's pretty unusual.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Cutter McKay on May 13, 2012, 02:53:07 AM
While this story didn't move me to tears, as with some, I did wholeheartedly enjoy it. Resnick is truly a master. I disagree with schzoTypal's suggestion that the sci-fi aspects were added as an afterthought. As an avid sci-fi fan, I love it when an age-old tale is told through futuristic means. I think it implies the consistency of human nature. Even in a future where they can cure cancer, surgically reconstruct an entire being, and travel to other worlds, mankind still struggles with things like parental acceptance and the fear of slowly losing a loved one. These trials transcend time.

I very much enjoyed Patrick Bazile's reading. His voice made the character of Jordan real to me. It put the image of Jordan in my head without Resnick ever having to describe the man. Very well done.

I agree with Cattfish, this one has my vote so far...
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: dragonsbreath on May 15, 2012, 07:26:13 PM
I loved the story. When listening to the story, I could not help to think of it as a metaphor for a parent coming to terms with a gay/lesbian child. That being said, I thought the use of fairy tale within the story was a great way to open the path toward reconciliation between parent and child. I disagree with earlier comments about Sci-fi superficiality and the notion that this is an old story retold. Stories about reconciliation and forgiveness can never be old. As for the description of Philip's new world, what a place to see. Nothing better than carefree plants doing math. Now that's Sci-fi!
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Anarquistador on May 16, 2012, 01:02:39 PM
I loved the story. When listening to the story, I could not help to think of it as a metaphor for a parent coming to terms with a gay/lesbian child.

I got that impression as well. Which is why, sadly, I couldn't really get into the story. I'm all for allegory, but this one wasn't very subtle.

I did enjoy the sort of Ray Bradbury-esque feel of the story, though, with the undertones of small-town Americana juxtaposed with space travel. I thought that was a refreshing change from what you normally see in Sci-Fi these days.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Devoted135 on May 16, 2012, 03:24:23 PM
I thought that this was an honest story extremely well told. I loved the used of the fairy tale as an oblique method of helping his parents get a better glimpse into his life. However, as often happens with Resnick stories, I found that I couldn't unsee the "man behind the curtain". For some reason I usually fail to really resonate with his writing because I can't shake the feeling that he's deliberately pushing all the emotional buttons he can find.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: ElectricPaladin on May 16, 2012, 04:18:37 PM
Oh, Mother of Lizards, I hated this story.

For the first time, I think Resnick completely missed the freaking point.

I like to be open about this sort of thing, because I think that's the best way to create the change I want to see in the world. I come from a controlling and emotionally abusive family - especially my mother - and part of how I escaped this was by moving from New York to San Francisco. In order to become emotionally healthy, I've had to depart from a lot of the ways my family does things. It's pretty easy to imagine that I seem like a space alien to them - I know they seem like space aliens to me.

What Resnick missed is that, like me, most people don't flee across a continent - or across a galaxy - unless they have a good reason to. What Resnick also missed is that the father's behavior in the story - whatever behavior he might have had in the past that drove Phillip to leave - is abusive and inexcusable. It is a child's responsibility to grow up and make his or her own life; it is the parent's responsibility to shut up and deal with it.

Anyway, I feel like my personal history short-circuited this story for me. Instead of sadness at the poignancy of Phillip and Julia's too-little too-late homecoming, I found myself distracted by anger at Jordan's continued bad behavior. And speaking of too-little, too-late, I was not impressed by Jordan's efforts to reconcile with his son. Reconciliation is impossible without explicitly acknowledging bad behavior and apologizing for it. Jordan's "peace" was, frankly, half-assed, and the "happy" conclusion felt trite and tacked-on. I can only imagine Phillip going home and chiming to his friends "yeah, my dad was still just as much a douchebag as he always was, but at least he let me stay for three days, and I got to spend some nice time with my mom."

And for me, that's not transcendent or cathartic - that's just life.

So, The Homecoming was a total miss with me. No zeppelins for you.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: DKT on May 16, 2012, 05:17:56 PM
What Resnick missed is that, like me, most people don't flee across a continent - or across a galaxy - unless they have a good reason to. What Resnick also missed is that the father's behavior in the story - whatever behavior he might have had in the past that drove Phillip to leave - is abusive and inexcusable. It is a child's responsibility to grow up and make his or her own life; it is the parent's responsibility to shut up and deal with it.

I could be misremembering, and I'm not trying to defend the story per se, but didn't Philip leave because he wanted to explore the galaxy and far-off distant planets? I don't think his relationship with his parents - particularly his father - was the motivation for his explorations. I thought the estrangement occurred once he chose to leave, and wasn't a result of a traumatic childhood. Or did I miss something?
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Farseeker on May 16, 2012, 05:26:13 PM
I was really pulled in. The plot, such as it was, was fairly predictable (really, there were only two possible outcomes). But Resnick's skill in getting me there, detailing along the edge of the path, seduced me.

Perhaps the emotional impact of this story varies widely depending on personal circumstances. My wide is estranged from her daughter (by the daughter's choice, which drives the knife pretty deep). Perhaps that was a reason why it hit me so hard.

I was impressed enough to mull whether I wanted to get a supporting membership to the Worldcon to vote for the story.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: ElectricPaladin on May 16, 2012, 05:35:58 PM
What Resnick missed is that, like me, most people don't flee across a continent - or across a galaxy - unless they have a good reason to. What Resnick also missed is that the father's behavior in the story - whatever behavior he might have had in the past that drove Phillip to leave - is abusive and inexcusable. It is a child's responsibility to grow up and make his or her own life; it is the parent's responsibility to shut up and deal with it.

I could be misremembering, and I'm not trying to defend the story per se, but didn't Philip leave because he wanted to explore the galaxy and far-off distant planets? I don't think his relationship with his parents - particularly his father - was the motivation for his explorations. I thought the estrangement occurred once he chose to leave, and wasn't a result of a traumatic childhood. Or did I miss something?

This is more "ElectricPaladin comments on human nature" than "ElectricPaladin recalls something in the story that you don't." Considering my own experience of life - and reflecting on the abusive nature of Jordan's behavior during the story - I got the feeling that something was left out, that Phillip had motivations for leaving that were not explored. Or, that he should have had those motivations, and Resnick left them out for some reason. Either  he choked or simply he fails to understand the nature of an abusive parent-child relationship. Either way, the story lacked reality for me as a result.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: patriciomas on May 16, 2012, 06:47:00 PM
I didn't dislike this story, but I agree with a lot of ElectricPaladin's points. I came at it from a queer perspective -- I'm gay, and although my family didn't disown me, I have friends whose parents did. In particular, the changed body suggested transgender to me (although his body change being a simple choice changes a few things). So from that perspective, Phillip was almost a pushover. His desire to be with his mother did feel authentic, but I feel like Phillip should have been much more resentful, probably even angry toward his father. After all, if Jordan felt abandoned, Phillip felt Jordan cast him out, refused to respect his decisions, and consciously tried to keep him away from his dying mother. Those aren't insurmountable issues, but it should really be Phillip who has more emotional baggage to work through, not Jordan.

P.S., ElectricPaladin's av is awesome.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: ElectricPaladin on May 16, 2012, 06:57:50 PM
I didn't dislike this story, but I agree with a lot of ElectricPaladin's points. I came at it from a queer perspective -- I'm gay, and although my family didn't disown me, I have friends whose parents did. In particular, the changed body suggested transgender to me (although his body change being a simple choice changes a few things). So from that perspective, Phillip was almost a pushover. His desire to be with his mother did feel authentic, but I feel like Phillip should have been much more resentful, probably even angry toward his father. After all, if Jordan felt abandoned, Phillip felt Jordan cast him out, refused to respect his decisions, and consciously tried to keep him away from his dying mother. Those aren't insurmountable issues, but it should really be Phillip who has more emotional baggage to work through, not Jordan.

That's a really good point. Personally, I took Phillip as just a really well-adjusted guy who has evolved past a lot of his issues - that's where I like to think I am, or where I'm getting. I can grapple with a lot of the B.S. my parents throw at me with a lot of Phillip's patience and grace. It wasn't Phillip I was expecting to change and grow, but Jordan, and the relationship in general.

P.S., ElectricPaladin's av is awesome.

Thanks!
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: lisavilisa on May 16, 2012, 07:24:35 PM
This reminds me of PC 190 "A Window, Clear as a Mirror", where someone the MC loves dearly decided to leave them to explore another world. However, this was a son leaving his parents not a wife leaving her spouse. In this case I'm more sympathetic to the kid who wanted to leave. I don't think I could leave my parents for another planet, but I can easily believe that someone else would.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Listener on May 17, 2012, 01:30:19 PM
However, as often happens with Resnick stories, I found that I couldn't unsee the "man behind the curtain". For some reason I usually fail to really resonate with his writing because I can't shake the feeling that he's deliberately pushing all the emotional buttons he can find.

Yes. And, to be honest, the framing of the intro and outro didn't really help me avoid that feeling.

To me this was more of a "generic Resnick story" than anything else -- good writing, good points, but in the end I've seen him use similar character types, tropes, and arcs in the past so many times that I just didn't get into it. I couldn't. Additionally, because this is a Hugo-nominated story, I'd set my mental bar higher than, say, if this was episode 308 or whatever and it just happened to be a story by Mike Resnick. I want my Hugo-nominated stories to really explore things I haven't explored before, which is why so far my favorite of the five is "Movement" -- it's much rarer (I think) to have a story from the POV of someone who is autistic than to have a story from the POV of someone who is dealing with a loved one who has Alzheimer's. (Full Disclosure: I haven't read Scalzi's story yet. I might like it better than "Movement"; I don't know.)

However, I cannot heap enough praise on the performance, which was excellent. I do agree with others who've said the chiming was a little distracting.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: zoanon on May 17, 2012, 04:26:56 PM
this story did nothing for me.
same old story blah blah blah, I really didn't see anything new in this retelling, just one of the characters happened to be a bit glittery.

Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: MacArthurBug on May 17, 2012, 06:33:29 PM
I wanted to like this. I love The rest of his stuff.
I couldn't like it! The pathetically repetitious and at times aggravating Julia character just felt "off" to me. The "angelic sweet saint" I suppose was supposed to lend some likability to the hostile and disturbing father figure. The chime voice was a bit too off putting. Good idea in theory but less so in practice.
The end felt saccharine and tacked on after all the hostility.
It could have been worse, since I DID listen all the way through, but..
I wanted to really LIKE it.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: SF.Fangirl on May 20, 2012, 06:16:42 PM
Same here.  I liked this okay, but wasn't really engaged and drawn in at all.  I didn't cry at all and didn't come close, but I did feel like it was written specifically to have the reader tear up.  I know that's a trait of MR's stories, but between that and Murr's warning I really felt like we were being manipulated.

Actually I do really appreciate Murr's warning because I usually listen in the car or while working out.  I'd hate to listen to an actually sad, cry-worthy story on my way anywhere but home and emerge red-eyed and tear streaked. 


this story did nothing for me.
same old story blah blah blah, I really didn't see anything new in this retelling, just one of the characters happened to be a bit glittery.


Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: SF.Fangirl on May 20, 2012, 06:22:16 PM
ElectricPalidin, are you projecting?  I detected zero sign of Phillip's choice as an attempt to flee an abusive home.  It seemed he was honestly offered a once in a life-time opportunity.  Really if he wanted to get away from his parents, he would have many opportunities before becoming such an expert in his field that he was selected out of 6000 for an entirely unique opportunity.  Dad was indeed a jerk, but I don't think Phillip's decision was made as an escape.  It was an amazing opportunity that his dad did not understand.

Oh, Mother of Lizards, I hated this story.

For the first time, I think Resnick completely missed the freaking point.

I like to be open about this sort of thing, because I think that's the best way to create the change I want to see in the world. I come from a controlling and emotionally abusive family - especially my mother - and part of how I escaped this was by moving from New York to San Francisco. In order to become emotionally healthy, I've had to depart from a lot of the ways my family does things. It's pretty easy to imagine that I seem like a space alien to them - I know they seem like space aliens to me.

What Resnick missed is that, like me, most people don't flee across a continent - or across a galaxy - unless they have a good reason to. What Resnick also missed is that the father's behavior in the story - whatever behavior he might have had in the past that drove Phillip to leave - is abusive and inexcusable. It is a child's responsibility to grow up and make his or her own life; it is the parent's responsibility to shut up and deal with it.

Anyway, I feel like my personal history short-circuited this story for me. Instead of sadness at the poignancy of Phillip and Julia's too-little too-late homecoming, I found myself distracted by anger at Jordan's continued bad behavior. And speaking of too-little, too-late, I was not impressed by Jordan's efforts to reconcile with his son. Reconciliation is impossible without explicitly acknowledging bad behavior and apologizing for it. Jordan's "peace" was, frankly, half-assed, and the "happy" conclusion felt trite and tacked-on. I can only imagine Phillip going home and chiming to his friends "yeah, my dad was still just as much a douchebag as he always was, but at least he let me stay for three days, and I got to spend some nice time with my mom."

And for me, that's not transcendent or cathartic - that's just life.

So, The Homecoming was a total miss with me. No zeppelins for you.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: ElectricPaladin on May 20, 2012, 07:58:05 PM
ElectricPalidin, are you projecting?  I detected zero sign of Phillip's choice as an attempt to flee an abusive home.  It seemed he was honestly offered a once in a life-time opportunity.  Really if he wanted to get away from his parents, he would have many opportunities before becoming such an expert in his field that he was selected out of 6000 for an entirely unique opportunity.  Dad was indeed a jerk, but I don't think Phillip's decision was made as an escape.  It was an amazing opportunity that his dad did not understand.

Oh, Mother of Lizards, I hated this story.

For the first time, I think Resnick completely missed the freaking point.

I like to be open about this sort of thing, because I think that's the best way to create the change I want to see in the world. I come from a controlling and emotionally abusive family - especially my mother - and part of how I escaped this was by moving from New York to San Francisco. In order to become emotionally healthy, I've had to depart from a lot of the ways my family does things. It's pretty easy to imagine that I seem like a space alien to them - I know they seem like space aliens to me.

What Resnick missed is that, like me, most people don't flee across a continent - or across a galaxy - unless they have a good reason to. What Resnick also missed is that the father's behavior in the story - whatever behavior he might have had in the past that drove Phillip to leave - is abusive and inexcusable. It is a child's responsibility to grow up and make his or her own life; it is the parent's responsibility to shut up and deal with it.

Anyway, I feel like my personal history short-circuited this story for me. Instead of sadness at the poignancy of Phillip and Julia's too-little too-late homecoming, I found myself distracted by anger at Jordan's continued bad behavior. And speaking of too-little, too-late, I was not impressed by Jordan's efforts to reconcile with his son. Reconciliation is impossible without explicitly acknowledging bad behavior and apologizing for it. Jordan's "peace" was, frankly, half-assed, and the "happy" conclusion felt trite and tacked-on. I can only imagine Phillip going home and chiming to his friends "yeah, my dad was still just as much a douchebag as he always was, but at least he let me stay for three days, and I got to spend some nice time with my mom."

And for me, that's not transcendent or cathartic - that's just life.

So, The Homecoming was a total miss with me. No zeppelins for you.

I'm totally honest about the fact that I'm projecting. After all, we all interpret stories from our own points of view.

That said - I think you missed my point. There was no indication that Phillip's decision was made as an escape... except for the fact that his dad was an unceasing font douchebaggery with a half-assed redemption. That's what bothered me. With a dad who behaves that badly, with a set of choices that took him that far away, I just can't buy that Phillip's childhood was as blandly pleasant and Jordan was remembering it.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Feegle on May 24, 2012, 04:03:40 PM
I don't often post here, but this story really drove me to the discussion page.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw this as a not-so-subtle metaphor for a queer child coming out to parents.  It sounded like that from the get-go, but the real giveaway for me was when Jordan made a comment about how he'd never have any grandkids.

At the risk of sounding soapbox-ish, Electric Paladin's perception of an abusive home fits this pretty well.  Full disclosure: I'm not queer, and I've never gone through anything like this at all.  But several of my queer friends have mentioned to me that their parents were supportive and loving - until they came out.  I think that's what resonated with me.

The reconciliation seemed too simplistic at the end.  Here's a father who's full of bitterness and anger at his son - blaming his son for not visiting when he's the one who didn't send word that his wife was sick.  And then, his dying-and-suffering-from-dementia wife says, "Make peace," and all his hatred melts away?  Sorry, I don't buy it.

Full props to the narrator, who did an awesome job with the story.  But in her intro, I think Mur missed the mark on this one.  This isn't a feel-good story to make you love your parents.  This is a story about a bigoted father who condemns his son's choice of lifestyle, and then gets angry at him for never coming home.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: childoftyranny on May 25, 2012, 05:35:17 PM
I can't disagree with peoples readings of this story, what I did do was wonder if this story had been written 10 years ago if everyone would have seen the same things. This story could easily have been written 10-20 years ago, I even felt like it really did feel more like the 70s-80s feel than something quite modern. Voice locks and holograms, we've imagined those sorts of things for many years.

With that feel comes the thought of coming of age stories, as well as the adventure ethos in America. The idea that children must move out and make it on their own, the idea setting out and going west. All of these tie together in similar ways.

Despite all the different emotional elements I don't think this story hit me as hard as it could have if it wasn't trying to be so many things at once. The broken family, the dying mother, the dementia suffering mother, the possibly abusive father, the longing for family love, by the point all the elements were together I was just getting weary of being poke with a stick. I think this story would have been better if it had been simpler, ah well.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: El Barto on May 25, 2012, 09:36:38 PM
I liked this story a lot but one thing stuck in my craw and that was the mom's suddenly magical "moment of clarity" at the perfect moment where she not only recognized her son but told her husband to make up with him.  That wasn't believable at all, though I had no problem believing the son's metamorphasis into a semi-human.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Unblinking on May 29, 2012, 05:09:29 PM
Ugh, I hated this story sooo much.

Resnick does seem to always have the goal of pulling on the heartstrings.  Sometimes he's effective, and makes me feel emotional, but other times I can just see him pulling the strings but I don't really feel the effect.  This time I could just see all the emotional cues but didn't feel a thing.

Neither of the parents felt like real people to me.  The boy did, but he seemed to be on a stage with stage dressing only rather than with other actors.  The dad was a tool but only when he was scripted to be.  His change of heart at the end I found entirely improbable, and even when he was being a jerk it just seemed that he was reading the scripts of every other story where this kind of conflict happens mushed into one.  The mother was very kindly and likeable, to the point that she just felt like she was scripted to be kindly and likeable, and more of a convenient plot device than person.  Worst of all was when the mother suddenly and inexplicably had a lucid moment where she remembers her son and tells husband to act the way that it was entirely obvious the story would make him act by the end by hook or by crook.  If his turning moment had been something not so obviously contrived it would've helped, but her suddenly becoming fully lucid just to slap him into shape was such a clumsy method of doing it that it really made me groan.  I know Resnick can do better.  I've read him do better.  This just struck me as lazy.

I found the chime-voice hard to listen to.  I understand that EP bought this as a Hugo nom and did what they could with it, but it was hard to find a volume where I could understand the words but where the chimes weren't painfully piercing.  Resnick made it so that to do it exactly accurately as the text describes it would be impossible, even the character muses that he shouldn't be able to understand the words at all but somehow does.

The reader did a superb job with the voicework, I hope we see him around the casts in the future.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: schizoTypal on May 29, 2012, 06:15:10 PM
I had another thought about the story ... there are a lot of things we're viewing as "negative" that aren't necessarily.

Let's say that the boy is the only genuine character. His parents being just caricatures of what goes on in his own thoughts and feelings of them. If the story is thought of as a one-sided memory of sorts, narrated from the father's angle yet recalled in the son's - it seems a little more sensible. Granted, that takes away from the intended impact emotionally, but also adds a certain psychotic emotional impact that was likely unintended. Similar to the feeling of Philip K. Dick's "A Scanner Darkly," which may or may not have even had more than one character at all.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: ElectricPaladin on May 29, 2012, 06:31:17 PM
I had another thought about the story ... there are a lot of things we're viewing as "negative" that aren't necessarily.

Let's say that the boy is the only genuine character. His parents being just caricatures of what goes on in his own thoughts and feelings of them. If the story is thought of as a one-sided memory of sorts, narrated from the father's angle yet recalled in the son's - it seems a little more sensible. Granted, that takes away from the intended impact emotionally, but also adds a certain psychotic emotional impact that was likely unintended. Similar to the feeling of Philip K. Dick's "A Scanner Darkly," which may or may not have even had more than one character at all.

This feels kind of cheap. By this logic, I could take even the least competently written story and say "well, what if actually this story is happening inside the head of someone who..." And so on. What Makes "A Scanner Darkly" brilliant is not that you can paste an unreliable narrator on top of the story, it's the clues that are already present in the text that point to something weird going on.

This story, by contrast, was just weak.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: schizoTypal on May 29, 2012, 07:12:31 PM
I had another thought about the story ... there are a lot of things we're viewing as "negative" that aren't necessarily.

Let's say that the boy is the only genuine character. His parents being just caricatures of what goes on in his own thoughts and feelings of them. If the story is thought of as a one-sided memory of sorts, narrated from the father's angle yet recalled in the son's - it seems a little more sensible. Granted, that takes away from the intended impact emotionally, but also adds a certain psychotic emotional impact that was likely unintended. Similar to the feeling of Philip K. Dick's "A Scanner Darkly," which may or may not have even had more than one character at all.

This feels kind of cheap. By this logic, I could take even the least competently written story and say "well, what if actually this story is happening inside the head of someone who..." And so on. What Makes "A Scanner Darkly" brilliant is not that you can paste an unreliable narrator on top of the story, it's the clues that are already present in the text that point to something weird going on.

This story, by contrast, was just weak.

... I'm going to have to concede to that. Well said.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Unblinking on May 30, 2012, 01:44:56 PM
I had another thought about the story ... there are a lot of things we're viewing as "negative" that aren't necessarily.

Let's say that the boy is the only genuine character. His parents being just caricatures of what goes on in his own thoughts and feelings of them. If the story is thought of as a one-sided memory of sorts, narrated from the father's angle yet recalled in the son's - it seems a little more sensible. Granted, that takes away from the intended impact emotionally, but also adds a certain psychotic emotional impact that was likely unintended. Similar to the feeling of Philip K. Dick's "A Scanner Darkly," which may or may not have even had more than one character at all.

This feels kind of cheap. By this logic, I could take even the least competently written story and say "well, what if actually this story is happening inside the head of someone who..." And so on. What Makes "A Scanner Darkly" brilliant is not that you can paste an unreliable narrator on top of the story, it's the clues that are already present in the text that point to something weird going on.

This story, by contrast, was just weak.

Yes, what Electric Paladin said. 

I tend to love unreliable narrator stories because of the clash between what is said to have happened and what did happen to give me a puzzle to solve.  But I never got the impression that this was one of them, which means that if it was one, it did it very badly.  And if it was unreliable, I'd be hard-pressed to accept it being from the boy's point of view.

(I do love A Scanner Darkly, fantastic, and one of the few PKDick movie adaptations that was actually pretty faithful to its source)
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Myrealana on June 05, 2012, 02:12:50 PM
Personally, I found the jingling of Philip's voice to be just a little distracting, to say the least. I was entirely nonplussed by the story itself, unfortunately. I felt like the whole alien world, Philip's appearance, and anything else remotely sci-fi in nature were added in as an afterthought for no purpose other than to appeal to a sci-fi audience. I wanted something that could have only happened in the world this story was told in, and got nothing of the sort.

The story itself has been told, and retold, and retold millions of times over. While that doesn't automatically make a new telling without merit, this definitely doesn't strike me as anything to write home about. And I'm one to write home about a great story.

The emotional tugs seemed to be the center of the story, and also had a very manufactured feeling to them.

I suppose in the end, I can see the appeal, and I'm not who it appeals to.
I agree 100% - especially with the idea that the scifi elements of the story were non-essential to the story itself. It would have been the same story if the son had gotten tattooed and pierced in order to join some remote African tribe.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: LaShawn on June 05, 2012, 04:15:22 PM
I liked this story a lot but one thing stuck in my craw and that was the mom's suddenly magical "moment of clarity" at the perfect moment where she not only recognized her son but told her husband to make up with him.  That wasn't believable at all, though I had no problem believing the son's metamorphasis into a semi-human.

Now, I had a different reaction. I was pretty bored with the story up to that point, because it was nothing new to me. I even rolled my eyes when the son starting telling the "bedtime story" because it was so cliched and so obvious. And the funny thing is, I knew to a degree that the story was setting me up for a moment with the mother would "come back". I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

And yet, I still fell for it, because I am a SUCKER, DAMMIT!

Overall, this was okay, but it didn't blow my mind like the Cartographer wasps story. And I liked the chimes. felt it added flavor to an otherwise predictable story.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: eytanz on June 09, 2012, 11:59:17 AM
I rather liked this story. It's not Resnick at his best but it's not at his worst, either. I guess I had calibrated my expectations to Resnick's writing - I wasn't expecting three dimensional characters, because he never really provides those - what he does provide is two dimensional characters who are engaged in a well crafted emotional upheaval.

But I do agree with this comment from El Barto:

I liked this story a lot but one thing stuck in my craw and that was the mom's suddenly magical "moment of clarity" at the perfect moment where she not only recognized her son but told her husband to make up with him.  That wasn't believable at all, though I had no problem believing the son's metamorphasis into a semi-human.

I felt tihis was a cop out; while everything before it struck me as internally consistent, this felt very much like an authorial insertion, as if he felt that his story had not developed in a way that would naturally lead to a moment of sufficient redemption for the father (which I would agree with), and he was not willing to just end the story without one. That's a real shame. This would have been a much better story if it was a tragedy.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: matweller on June 09, 2012, 06:59:10 PM
I might agree if I didn't work with the elderly and see them pop into random moments of lucidity all the time. It was convenient to be sure, but hardly unbelievably or unreasonably so.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: eytanz on June 09, 2012, 07:08:50 PM
I might agree if I didn't work with the elderly and see them pop into random moments of lucidity all the time. It was convenient to be sure, but hardly unbelievably or unreasonably so.

I didn't say it was impossible, just that it felt out of place in the story. And this wasn't a random moment of lucidity - it was a very, very specifically timed moment of lucidity that lasted just long enough to impart the necessary message.

One of the things about literature is that it's not bound to realism. That means we can have people undergo body changes that allow them to live on alien worlds where the plants solve mathematical problems and there are giant glow-in-the-dark creatures. It also means that just because something is possible, doesn't mean that it needs to happen. The events in a story, especially an emotionally driven tale like this, should serve the emotional core of the story, and this moment of lucidity, timed as it was, did not do that.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: matweller on June 11, 2012, 04:40:43 PM
I might agree if I didn't work with the elderly and see them pop into random moments of lucidity all the time. It was convenient to be sure, but hardly unbelievably or unreasonably so.

I didn't say it was impossible, just that it felt out of place in the story. And this wasn't a random moment of lucidity - it was a very, very specifically timed moment of lucidity that lasted just long enough to impart the necessary message.

One of the things about literature is that it's not bound to realism. That means we can have people undergo body changes that allow them to live on alien worlds where the plants solve mathematical problems and there are giant glow-in-the-dark creatures. It also means that just because something is possible, doesn't mean that it needs to happen. The events in a story, especially an emotionally driven tale like this, should serve the emotional core of the story, and this moment of lucidity, timed as it was, did not do that.
I thought the argument was that it did do that, just that it did it in an all-too-convenient manner. But you're arguing here whether it's convenient or realistic, it should have been avoided to fit your mental image of what a story should be. You're going to be disappointed with art 90% of the time if that's the frame of reference for your judgement. And that's okay, but it's only going to lead to madness if you expect everyone to walk that path with you.

My point was that I don't disagree. It was a cheesy moment that feels like it was intended to be a tearjerker and if it was nothing more than an element inserted to hammer a reaction from you despite having no precedent in reality, then it would probably sour me on the experience too. However, since I have seen similar things happen at seemingly opportune/highly coincidental moments, it has precedent for me -- and I make no claim that anybody else should feel the same -- and therefore I don't automatically dismiss it as just so much drivel. I don't have the single-tear reaction the made-for-tv-movie writer might hope for with such a device, but neither is it enough for me to lose all enjoyment of what is otherwise a beautiful story.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: eytanz on June 11, 2012, 04:54:02 PM
I might agree if I didn't work with the elderly and see them pop into random moments of lucidity all the time. It was convenient to be sure, but hardly unbelievably or unreasonably so.

I didn't say it was impossible, just that it felt out of place in the story. And this wasn't a random moment of lucidity - it was a very, very specifically timed moment of lucidity that lasted just long enough to impart the necessary message.

One of the things about literature is that it's not bound to realism. That means we can have people undergo body changes that allow them to live on alien worlds where the plants solve mathematical problems and there are giant glow-in-the-dark creatures. It also means that just because something is possible, doesn't mean that it needs to happen. The events in a story, especially an emotionally driven tale like this, should serve the emotional core of the story, and this moment of lucidity, timed as it was, did not do that.
I thought the argument was that it did do that, just that it did it in an all-too-convenient manner. But you're arguing here whether it's convenient or realistic, it should have been avoided to fit your mental image of what a story should be. You're going to be disappointed with art 90% of the time if that's the frame of reference for your judgement. And that's okay, but it's only going to lead to madness if you expect everyone to walk that path with you.

What? I'm saying no such thing. I'm saying that in my opinion of the story the moment of revelation and the subsequent ending did diminished from the impact of what preceded it in the story.

I'm not asking for the story to fit in with some arbitrary different story in my mind. The narrator repeatedly stated that there's no chance that his wife will have a moment of complete lucidity, and the story for most of its length was really excellent in letting us know that he really wishes he could reconcile with his son but his stubbornness makes him unable to do so. I'm saying that I think this would have been a better story if it had kept both these premises - which it had firmly established - until the end. And I am saying that, realistic or not, the moment of clarity was not handled as well as the rest of the story was written.

Quote
My point was that I don't disagree. It was a cheesy moment that feels like it was intended to be a tearjerker and if it was nothing more than an element inserted to hammer a reaction from you despite having no precedent in reality, then it would probably sour me on the experience too. However, since I have seen similar things happen at seemingly opportune/highly coincidental moments, it has precedent for me -- and I make no claim that anybody else should feel the same -- and therefore I don't automatically dismiss it as just so much drivel. I don't have the single-tear reaction the made-for-tv-movie writer might hope for with such a device, but neither is it enough for me to lose all enjoyment of what is otherwise a beautiful story.

You are really twisting my words (and El Barto's words that I quoted). Show me where I said it made me lose all enjoyment of the story, or where I argued that it soured me on the experience, or where I dismissed it as drivel. I said it was a weak ending to a strong story.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: hronir on June 12, 2012, 12:54:13 AM
Looking at the positives, I really liked the Bradbury feel in parts of this story. The talking flower concept was beautiful/haunting and would love Mike to explore this further.

I actually liked the effect of Phillip's voice. If he were narrating the whole text it would have been off-putting. As it was, especially early on when it was a little more sparse, it gave the experience life.

The narration was excellent.

Most of my sentiments would be an echo of what has been generally said throughout. It was enjoyable though, as has been mentioned, perhaps we would be less critical if this wasn't a Hugo story...


Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Myrealana on June 12, 2012, 02:19:32 PM
I might agree if I didn't work with the elderly and see them pop into random moments of lucidity all the time. It was convenient to be sure, but hardly unbelievably or unreasonably so.

I didn't say it was impossible, just that it felt out of place in the story. And this wasn't a random moment of lucidity - it was a very, very specifically timed moment of lucidity that lasted just long enough to impart the necessary message.

One of the things about literature is that it's not bound to realism. That means we can have people undergo body changes that allow them to live on alien worlds where the plants solve mathematical problems and there are giant glow-in-the-dark creatures. It also means that just because something is possible, doesn't mean that it needs to happen. The events in a story, especially an emotionally driven tale like this, should serve the emotional core of the story, and this moment of lucidity, timed as it was, did not do that.
I agree with you here. I saw it coming from a mile away, and it was so short, convenient and well-timed that I didn't find it believable.

I wanted her do something to bring the two of them together, but I wanted it to feel more organic. As it was, it arrived without warning and was over so fast it didn't seem real.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: CryptoMe on June 18, 2012, 03:36:37 PM
This was definitely a "meh" for me. Predictable and dull for many of the reasons that have already been pointed out. And it didn't touch my emotional strings at all. I don't think my reaction is because of the bar being set high for a Hugo nominee, I just think this story was uninspiring in general.

By the way, I agree with hronir that the sound effects for Philip's voice were well done. At the beginning, they are fairly infrequent, giving you time to get used to them. By the end, the chimes just seemed like a natural part of Philip's voice and you barely notice them, like an accent that your ear has become attuned to.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Gamercow on July 12, 2012, 05:40:29 PM
First off, please please please get the narrator to do more stories.  What a great voice!  And I loved the effect that was put on Philip's voice, it gave a very well-worn story that push towards sci-fi.  

At first, I went down the "estranged trans-gender child" route as well, until we got more detail about Philip. The details of the other world and the reasons why he went through the procedure gave it enough of a sci-fi feel to escape that analogy for me.  I cannot word why properly, but I relate to the "changing to see other worlds" decision more than changing my gender to more closely match with my self-identification.  

Edited to add:
I really liked this story, and I suggested to my wife that she give it a listen.  She did, and hated it.  She couldn't really explain why other than "The father was a complete asshole. He wouldn't change his mind that quickly.  Not after 10 years."  She then went on to point things out that I didn't see as implausible, and some things that I didn't think were in the story at all.  Much like Electric Paladin, she comes from a very abusive childhood, so it was VERY interesting to see his response, and how closely it matched hers. 
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: moshezadka on July 23, 2012, 03:13:23 PM
Two months after I moved from Israel to the Bay area, my parents came to visit me. My dad said that as much as he misses me, he sees how much happier I am here, and that I should stay. I can't help thinking that's why I cried at the end of the story...
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: hardware on August 07, 2012, 03:44:31 PM
This one wasn't for me at all, but then again, I'd never been a big Resnick fan. The combination of flat characters and strong emotional manipulation makes his story the SF worlds equivalent  of Oscar bait. But if I'm going to cry for a character, (s)he better earn it, and then (s)he better be complex and feel real. Resnicks characters so seldom does. Resnick is the Nicholas Spark of SF, and while he has his place and deserves his spot in the light of all the people who seems to love his stories , I can not for my life see why this would be up for an award.
Title: Re: EP344: The Homecoming
Post by: Fenrix on January 16, 2013, 03:52:42 PM
I wasn't really moved by this one, and I'm glad to see that The Paper Menagerie beat this one out for the Hugo, as that a far more effective use of both spec fic and the "call your mother" emotional tug.

I found that there was no transition in this story. The father is awful and then he is not (or at least less). An arc is more pleasing than two lines joined by a sharp angle.

The narration was excellent. I really liked the production touch of the chimes on top of the son's voice; it added just enough to subtly convey otherness without being distracting (car speakers on commute). I could also tell that there was some vocal distinction under there as well, lending more depth to the overall presentation.