Escape Artists
Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: eytanz on July 26, 2012, 08:22:15 PM
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EP355: Grandmother (http://escapepod.org/2012/07/06/ep352-food-for-thought/)
By Cat Rambo (http://www.kittywumpus.net/blog/)
Read by The Word Whore (http://www.theitspot.com/) of Air Out My Shorts
An Escape Pod Original!
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Most people called her Phoenix. Her former crew used “Captain” before that and “Sir” afterward. Ruby and Ada respectively called her “mother” and “g’ma.” Her hair was silver – not white, but genuine, metallic silver, a long fall against her pale blue skin, the color of a shadow on a piece of willow ware, that made her seems ageless despite the century and more that lay upon her, not to mention all those decades of pirating.
They said she’d been the best slideboard rider of her time, and perhaps the best battleship pilot of all time, back before her parents and sister were killed and she turned rogue.
They said she had done terrible things in her pirate days.
They said she’d been ruthless in her rise to power, moving up the chain from god knows where, an origin she’d never, ever spoken of to anyone, not even her own daughter. She’d killed some captains, slept with others, called in favors and maneuvered and betrayed and seized power with a brutal efficiency that still underlay what now seemed a calm and orderly, rules-bound government that she and Mukopadhyay had created.
They said she had killed hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people — sometimes at a distance, sometimes up close, with knife or fist. They said she’d killed a crew member when the shuttle she was in needed its mass reduced and the man hadn’t even argued, just nodded and stepped into the airlock, never said a word as the door closed and the lock cycled, staring in at his captain as she stared back.
They said time had mellowed her.
They said working with Mukopadhyay, even though he was crazy as a spiral comet, had mellowed her.
They said helping colonize a whole planet, setting up its government, the rich and intricate power structure that now encompassed the whole solar system called Shiva, had mellowed her.
Not to mention motherhood, they said, a change which no pregnant woman escapes. It alters the hormones in your body. Softens you. Makes you less rash, less harsh. Takes away even the sharpest edge, not to mention the hormonal craziness, which some women never recover from, after all.
Sure, changes you in a good way, they were quick to say.
But definitely softer.
They said she’d never do those sorts of things now.
(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif) Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://traffic.libsyn.com/escapepod/EP355_Grandmother.mp3)
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I listened to this one about halfway through, but never really got into it. It's not that the story ideas themselves bothered me, but they were told in a way that I just found very dull. The opening excerpt in eytanz's post at the beginning of the thread is a good example. 1800 words of "Phoenix was like this. Phoenix was like that. Some people said that Phoenix had done this." That's the kind of writing that I care the least about. Give me a scene that shows me what Phoenix is like, for the love of Pete. I hate it when people use the advice "show don't tell" as if it is a commandment, but in this case I think the story would've been better if that advice had been followed.
And halfway through, I found that was still my reaction. Some stuff had happened, I'd just gotten to the part where Ruby brought the soldiers in, and Phoenix was somehow surprised, as if she wouldn't have done the same. That was the first part that I really had any interest in, and that was too little too late for me.
I love the Word Whore (I still need to make a donation, have been meaning to do that). I love the sound of her voice. But I think that in this case, I'm not sure that her voice matched the story very well. She is the epitome of mellow and sexy. But the story was already so slow-paced that it can't afford to get any mellower. And I personally didn't find Phoenix sexy. So the Word Whore's voice didn't really fit the story, to me.
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I enjoyed the story, but I found it very hard to follow at times. I don't know if it was the editing, or what. Some of the dialog pauses seemed too short, which made it difficult for me at times to figure out who was talking, so I got confused. It took me all of two seconds to figure out that the daughter did it. ???
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my sincere apologies for the confusion-causing editing :'( that's all on my head!!
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I listened when I assembled the episode and I didn't find it confusing at all. A fun story by a brilliant author, well read.
My sincere apologies, Ms. Whore, on behalf of my foolish country for making you a victim of our health care system. It's weird, I thought there was some kind of arrangement between most first-world countries to excuse debts like that which are incurred. You are lucky, though, if you were a native and didn't have insurance, they would have just amputated both hands (and probably a foot for good measure) and the bill would have been easily $20,000.
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I listened when I assembled the episode and I didn't find it confusing at all. A fun story by a brilliant author, well read.
My sincere apologies, Ms. Whore, on behalf of my foolish country for making you a victim of our health care system. It's weird, I thought there was some kind of arrangement between most first-world countries to excuse debts like that which are incurred. You are lucky, though, if you were a native and didn't have insurance, they would have just amputated both hands (and probably a foot for good measure) and the bill would have been easily $20,000.
oh you sweet darlin'. it is absolutely NOT your country's fault. it is just incredibly unfortunate, for me, that such an unfathomable freak accident took place in it. i need to trust that -if they had actually flown me home, instead of treating me immediately- the permanent physical damage would have been much much worse. that said, had i been conscious.... had i known my tally would be <cough> 3.6 times the amount you're tossing out there.... i might have insisted :-\
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I listened when I assembled the episode and I didn't find it confusing at all. A fun story by a brilliant author, well read.
My sincere apologies, Ms. Whore, on behalf of my foolish country for making you a victim of our health care system. It's weird, I thought there was some kind of arrangement between most first-world countries to excuse debts like that which are incurred. You are lucky, though, if you were a native and didn't have insurance, they would have just amputated both hands (and probably a foot for good measure) and the bill would have been easily $20,000.
"...had i known my tally would be <cough> 3.6 times the amount you're tossing out there.... i might have insisted :-\ "
Oh, I didn't know you stayed in the hospital for TWO days...well yeah, you deserve it then. Rubber gloves don't pay for themselves. Speaking of, if you ever need a laugh, look at the itemized list of your bill. I know it sucks, but if you can't laugh at being charged $10 per pair of gloves (which, incidentally is more than the price of a box), there's probably no hope. ;)
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Is there anywhere I can see an example of your artwork like the kind offered in the raffle?
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I listened to this one about halfway through, but never really got into it. It's not that the story ideas themselves bothered me, but they were told in a way that I just found very dull. The opening excerpt in eytanz's post at the beginning of the thread is a good example. 1800 words of "Phoenix was like this. Phoenix was like that. Some people said that Phoenix had done this." That's the kind of writing that I care the least about. Give me a scene that shows me what Phoenix is like, for the love of Pete. I hate it when people use the advice "show don't tell" as if it is a commandment, but in this case I think the story would've been better if that advice had been followed.
And halfway through, I found that was still my reaction. Some stuff had happened, I'd just gotten to the part where Ruby brought the soldiers in, and Phoenix was somehow surprised, as if she wouldn't have done the same. That was the first part that I really had any interest in, and that was too little too late for me.
I love the Word Whore (I still need to make a donation, have been meaning to do that). I love the sound of her voice. But I think that in this case, I'm not sure that her voice matched the story very well. She is the epitome of mellow and sexy. But the story was already so slow-paced that it can't afford to get any mellower. And I personally didn't find Phoenix sexy. So the Word Whore's voice didn't really fit the story, to me.
My feeling too - right down to the narration. Add to that, it felt like a kind of female Flash Gordon episode (probably all that fancy red, orange, and gold uniform malarkey) and I couldn't really commit to the characters.
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Is there anywhere I can see an example of your artwork like the kind offered in the raffle?
I'd like to see that too. I followed her link on her name, to Air Out My Shorts but didn't see a art portfolio. Where should I look?
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Thank you so much for your interest. I really don't feel comfortable allowing the thread to pull away from the story itself / feedback for the author, so will make this quick :-* >
As mentioned in the raffle promo clip, a very early "sneak preview" of (a very small portion of) the raffle painting is on the air out my shorts facebook page (more will be posted there, as the piece progresses): https://www.facebook.com/pages/Air-Out-My-Shorts/119105408120810 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Air-Out-My-Shorts/119105408120810)
...and a selection of past work was posted in the air out my shorts forum (also known as the "playpen")... believe it's in the AoMS Exclusives category:
http://prestonbuttons.proboards.com/ (http://prestonbuttons.proboards.com/)
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Intriguing. The levels of indirection and misdirection, the social rules and subverting them... This was not a comfortable listen, but it kept me in its grip quite securely.
I just found that I like old-fashioned descriptive and discursive prose quite as well as more action-driven contemporary style, and then came to feel that various EA podcasts have been catering to my taste for variety.
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Thank you so much for your interest. I really don't feel comfortable allowing the thread to pull away from the story itself / feedback for the author, so will make this quick :-* >
As mentioned in the raffle promo clip, a very early "sneak preview" of (a very small portion of) the raffle painting is on the air out my shorts facebook page (more will be posted there, as the piece progresses): https://www.facebook.com/pages/Air-Out-My-Shorts/119105408120810 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Air-Out-My-Shorts/119105408120810)
...and a selection of past work was posted in the air out my shorts forum (also known as the "playpen")... believe it's in the AoMS Exclusives category:
http://prestonbuttons.proboards.com/ (http://prestonbuttons.proboards.com/)
Just want to 'like' this post. I can't imagine (well, I can, a bit) what it must be like to lose such a vital function. Your dignity in not allowing your own plight to hijack the story's thread is gracious.
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Yeah, what Unblinking said. I did listen all the way through, but I just never got into it. I endured more than enjoyed. I didn't notice any sound editting problem, but I never got a full picture of the universe or characters. I took that more to be a plotting problem caused by leaving key explanatory facts out until the reveal. It's another story with unlikeable and rather uninteresting characters. That is not to say I can't enjoy a flawed character or an antihero, but I really couldn't have cared less if boy toy was mind wiped or if Phoenix or Ruby came out on top. Although, it was fairly obvious that Phoenix was going to win. I was a rather long story for Escape Pod and I just didn't care how it ended. I think I need to care about the outcome for me to actually like the story.
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I always feel bad when I don't like a story. I know the author, the editor, the narrator, worked really hard to make it the best story they could. Sadly, I didn't like this story too much an stopped listening about half way through. I found my mind drifting off (I listen when I work out) which doesn't happen when a story engages me. I used to attribute my mind drifting to me but now I'm not so sure because the last few batches of stories engaged me enough that it made my workout go by much faster.
-Tim
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It was an interesting depiction of a really dysfunctional space-tyrant's family. One that's been pared down so much that it's more of a bush than a tree. I'm not sure that either side - Ruby or Phoenix - were "good"; certainly they were mostly self-interested.
I was a little surprised of the choice of narrators. She was very good, but I would have to agree that the subject matter didn't exactly match her delivery. There have been much more explicit material on Escape Pod.
And I'm personally embarrassed by her medical travails at the "hands" (pardon the expression) of the "greatest healthcare system in the world". There should be some sort of compensatory system for this sort of thing.
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Oh dear :'( I feel just terrible about the mismatched voice/style/narration. Deepest apologies to Ms. Rambo!! There was a fair amount of 'liquid courage' involved --not a very good excuse, I know-- and it was an unusually long piece... wish I'd thought to apply an "increase speed" filter, across-the-board, after I'd finished. Hope you can forgive me for putting y'all to sleep :-*
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Well, I thought it was a good story, I can see why some people lost teh thread mid way, I was listening to it on a journey and was therefore a slightly captive audience, but hey was was captured! It was worth a bit of perseverance to give us a thoughtful piece of work.
I also enjoyed the narration, didn't spot the editing blips and liked the voice work on this one.
Thanks guys!
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I feel just terrible about the mismatched voice/style/narration.
Bah! and double Bah! I enjoyed the narration. To my (admittedly old-geezerish) mind it fitted the vintage style of the prose, and the regal voice of Ms Phoenix rather well. So you smiled while reading aloud a story of loss and conflict? So bloody what, it worked. I think your voice gave the story an additional layer of feeling of alienation, complementing the confusion of the protagonist.
I, for one, am glad you did not choose to put the pedal to the metal. The young these days are too much in a hurry for the bang-bang-rattatata-sploit-aargh to savour the words, enjoy the atmosphere. You did good here.
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I couldn't make it more than five minutes into the story. I believe our esteemed Assistant Editor explained why in the feedback for the most recent Lavie Tidhar story, so I won't rehash that.
Believe me, living in the US and having insurance doesn't guarantee you coverage, either. I have two doctors saying I need a specific type of surgery, but my insurance company has a blanket exclusion against it, which means that no matter how many doctors say I need it, or even if I'm in the ER, unconscious, and the doctor there decides that I need it stat, they STILL won't pay for it.
(It's not terribly expensive, compared to what WW went through -- the total bill is estimated to be only 35k not including prescription medications -- but still, that's more than the down payment on my HOUSE.)
(I have a short-story about the US health care system that no one seems willing to buy. I think EP is 2 or 3 more steps away on my list of places to send it.)
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I started listening to this last week, couldn't really get into it, and put it down for a few days. I came back to it with fresh ears, and enjoyed it much more on the second try. Phoenix's guilt over the original Gareth's sacrifice and her quest to bring him back struck a chord with me, and I was impressed during my second listen with the subtle foreshadowing of his nature.
However, the feud with Ruby left me cold, as did the repetition toward the end. "Of course Ruby followed X strategy; it's what Phoenix would have done." Which made the "....because cloning!" reveal at the end much less impactful. Actually, I think I liked the concepts and ideas behind the story more than the story itself.
I listened to this one about halfway through, but never really got into it. It's not that the story ideas themselves bothered me, but they were told in a way that I just found very dull. The opening excerpt in eytanz's post at the beginning of the thread is a good example. 1800 words of "Phoenix was like this. Phoenix was like that. Some people said that Phoenix had done this."
Unblinking explained my reactions better than I could, it's not that I disliked the story/plot (I actually liked it!), but I think it could have been told better.
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I quite enjoyed this story! Phoenix reminded me of Captain Reynolds, the hard-hitting, no-bullshit, seasoned fighter who can take on any situation in stride. This, however, did leave me with the feeling that there was no real suspense in the story. Phoenix was cunning, and calm, and intelligent, and logical. There was no way she was going to lose. Ruby was too rash, poorly motivated, and way too evil to be the daughter of such a cool person.
That said, I was interested in Gareth's side of the story, his second-guessing, his intuitions, and his psychology. I was surprised to learn that he was the sacrificed crew member, along with the truth behind that myth.
The narration, in my opinion, was wonderful. I thought the pacing was fine, and the voice was good for the story. Not a perfect fit, but not bad. (And of course I loooove TWW's voice!)
Definitely buying a raffle ticket, too. Our healthcare system is completely broken if things like this can happen to someone so awesome.
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Most of the issues I had with story have been covered already, so I won't rehash. And I, too, found TWW's narration wrong for the tale, but as she's apologized profusely here in the forums already, I'm starting to feel guilty for not liking it and I'll leave it alone, hehe.
I did like the character introduction at the beginning, describing Phoenix by what others have said about her. We, the readers, can't take this information at face value because it's all hearsay and rumormill. Did she do all those things? Or has her character been blown out of proportion over the years? It may have bee a bit on the long side, but it starts me off paying close attention to the character to see if she really fits these rather large britches.
What I had the biggest problem with was the reveal at the end that her granddaughter was really a clone. Not that Ada being a clone was a bad idea, I liked that, but the reveal to us, the readers, was completely wrong to me. We're told this through Phoenix's inner monologue as she's looking over the sleeping child. Phoenix already knows this particular bit of information, so why is she thinking through it now? It's a thought process specifically designed to deliver the reveal to the audience, and stands out to me as such; as a device rather than a natural thought.
What I think would have been stronger and more interesting was to have Phoenix deliver the reveal in dialogue to Ruby. If she wants to hurt her daughter for her betrayal, dropping this chunk of bad news just before killing her would be the ultimate revenge, and a lot more interesting to read.
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The first part was a bit slow, but it picked up early enough on that I was able to let WW's narration carry me over the slow part until we got to the good stuff.
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Talk about mental teflon. I could not keep my attention on this story for more than 3 minutes at a time. I didn't like any of the characters, didn't really like the setting, didn't really like the narration, and didn't really want to finish the story. I'm glad I did,because the last 5 minutes were probably the most interesting to me, but I had figured out both twists early on in the story. I may read this to see if it is any more interesting, but for now, I'm putting it in the "Stories not for me" pile.
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A very poor episode.
As to how the story was slow and I gave up, and the mellow voice of the word whore was too mellow for a slow story, I say, "Unblinking, get out of my head!"
SF Fan Girls comment of " I endured more than enjoyed" is apt.
Did we really need to get the color of every trivial thing?
At one point, the cost of sand blasting a building to restore its color was discussed like it was an important character point.
That was as far as I got.
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Phoenix was cunning, and calm, and intelligent, and logical. There was no way she was going to lose.
I felt like Phoenix was set up too strongly as the ultimate protagonist, whom all must adore. As unblinking said, it seemed like it was too much telling the reader that phoenix was ultimate, and not so much showing it. But i also felt no suspense -- for the reason that it seemed the author loved Phoenix too much to ever let her suffer more than a temporary reverse.
I did expect Ruby's betrayal long before Phoenix did.
Still there were some twists and turns, and i listened all the way through without regretting it. But it would have been much more compelling if i had reason to care about one or more of the characters.
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Really enjoyed this one, particularly the twisty ending that implied maybe, just maybe, Ruby was kind of right about her mom after all. Didn't leave me feeling good, but made the story weightier and more interesting for me.
Thought the narration was good.
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Phoenix was cunning, and calm, and intelligent, and logical. There was no way she was going to lose.
I felt like Phoenix was set up too strongly as the ultimate protagonist, whom all must adore.
Maybe who all must respect, rather than adore. She is extremely *effective* in carrying out whatever action she chooses, but this doesn`t mean she's without flaws. From my point of view, her singleminded ability to execute her own will, whatever the cost, *is* a flaw. I think she was a very interesting character and I like that there was no archetypical good folks/bad folks divide in this story.
I didn`t listen to the story, so I can`t comment on the narration and how that might have affected pacing. The story definitely did draw me in and grip my attention. I linked to it just to take a look and leave the tab open to listen later, and then ended up reading the whole thing without stopping to refill my coffee. (and I really love my coffee, so that`s saying something).
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Seemed like a waste of the Word Whore, who really should be reading the Kama Sutra.
Go on. Do it for Podcastle. You know you want to.
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I did like the character introduction at the beginning, describing Phoenix by what others have said about her. We, the readers, can't take this information at face value because it's all hearsay and rumormill. Did she do all those things? Or has her character been blown out of proportion over the years? It may have bee a bit on the long side, but it starts me off paying close attention to the character to see if she really fits these rather large britches.
To me the fact that those early sections were products of the rumor mill made them even weaker than they otherwise would have been. It's clear that these are rumors. Rumors often have a grain of truth but also plenty of BS. If it were clear that these statements were true they would convey information about the character at least. If it were clear that these statements were bald-faced lies, then that too would convey information by negation. But their level of truth is so completely unclear that it's almost equivalent to having no information at all.
Rumors are fine, and something LIKE this could be very effective in some circumstances, but I'd prefer if there were actual characters speaking about the rumors instead of just narration telling me them. And to start a story with them when I have not yet seen the characters do anything is a bit much for me.
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I actually think this is a really good story, interesting and thougth-provoking.
However, I don't think it was told well. The telling (the author's, not the narrator's) suffers from pacing issues, being far too slow-moving and long-winded when it doesn't need to be. If these issues could be addressed, then the good story would be able to shine through. I would strongly encourage a re-write, with some severe editing.
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I would strongly encourage a re-write, with some severe editing.
It's been published, so I kind of doubt that's gonna happen. :)
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I really, really didn't like this one.
So, here's the problem: I don't give three shits about the brutal meanderings of the aristocracy. Ruby was a heartless bitch. Phoenix was a heartless bitch. I'm sure Phoenix-clone-grandkid will grow up to be a heartless bitch, too. I'm able to engage in a little suspension-of-political-outrage in stories where the despots have some redeeming qualities, but if these people had any, I missed it. As far as I'm concerned, the biggest let down was that the entire clan didn't go up in a ball of atomic flame so the poor bastards on the planet could elect a representative government.
*Ahem*
Anyway, I will laud the story for not letting gender get in the way. I did appreciate that the heartless, ruthless, sybarites were female. It's a nice change of pace. Unfortunately, their gender also didn't make them any more sympathetic, and the story failed to touch me.
What's particularly frustrating for me is that it wouldn't have taken much. Just a little more of a humanizing touch, a sense that Phoenix wasn't just an appallingly controlling, selfish, brutal waste of humanity, or that Ruby was actually struggling to create a better place to live than her mother had created... just something to hang my heart on.
I suppose I should add that Phoenix really reminded me of my mother. That probably tells everything about my childhood than you need to know to understand why, perhaps, this story engendered more than a little rancor from me.
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I thought the story was ok. Not bad, but not particularly great or memorable. It's probably one of the ones I'll not recollect at all when the "best of" voting thread comes up at the end of the year (though I hope I at least remember to include it in the poll ;) )
What's particularly frustrating for me is that it wouldn't have taken much. Just a little more of a humanizing touch, a sense that Phoenix wasn't just an appallingly controlling, selfish, brutal waste of humanity, or that Ruby was actually struggling to create a better place to live than her mother had created... just something to hang my heart on.
I think that was what the clone boyfriend was supposed to be for, at least as far as Phoenix goes (though I don't think it was entirely succesful). Ruby was a spoiled brat; I think there was never any suggestion that she wanted to be a better ruler than her mother, she just wanted what her mother had.
And note that there was not real suggestion that Phoenix was a bad ruler - at least not while things were going well for her. We know very little about the world she ruled or the lives of anyone else on it.
And therein lies my main criticism of this story - the stakes were never really clear. I never really got a sense of what it is Phoenix actually did, or what the world was like. When Phoenix released biological weapons on her former subjects without caring about them, it felt like a low-stakes gambit because the story didn't care about those people either. Being the autocratic ruler of the planet was just a job, a position to be squabbled over, not something that actually seemed to have much substance.
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Like others, I nearly hit the "Stop" button on this story before the meat of the story even started. As it was, I was driving, and just let it ramble on in the background for a while. I'm not sure if I missed anything important, as I tuned in and out until the attackers came in the night, and then I wanted to see where it was going.
I saw Phoenix grow and change a bit through her relationship with the Gareth-clone, and that served to make her feel more sympathetic than her spoiled brat of a daughter, but I still didn't really get who I was supposed to be cheering for. Was Phoenix a good ruler? Was Ruby bad? Hadn't the thing with Gareth proven that clones AREN'T exactly like the originals, and therefore Ada was certainly not going to live up to her grandmother's expectations? So, did she really learn anything, or is she going to spend the next fifty years wiping and re-creating Ada in order to get the perfect replacement?
It was pretty, and it had space pirates, so I didn't hate it. I looked under the surface and found a deeper meaning, but then, I found a third, even deeper level, that's the same as the surface one. Like with pie.
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I loved this one- the story and the narration.
I want to hear more of the earlier adventures of Phoenix and Mukopadhyay or Phoenix and Gareth or Phoenix and whoever/whatever.
I know some people hate Robert Heinlein for being a misogynistic pig but I still love him. Phoenix's strong character coupled with The Word Whore's voice made me think of some of Heinlein's wonderful female characters.
Please, sir, may I have some more?
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It was pretty, and it had space pirates, so I didn't hate it. I looked under the surface and found a deeper meaning, but then, I found a third, even deeper level, that's the same as the surface one. Like with pie.
You just said what I was thinking, only with more cleverness and less rancor. Good job, sir/ma'am/thing.
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Oh, but it's Tudors in space. Once I saw it that way I could enjoy the scheming and unlikable characters with their respective little SF twist. Not too much moral pushed on me, and actually I think the narration (although it took me a few minutes to get into) helped push the kind of decadent atmosphere this kind of story needed.
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Call me a vocabuwhore, but I dig it when there's proper use of archaic words like "sybaritic" and "atavistic".
I really don't get why folks didn't find TWW's narration fitting. Peacock was a very sensual creature, and it was made clear that sex was something that carried priority in her life.