Escape Artists

Escape Pod => Episode Comments => Topic started by: eytanz on November 01, 2013, 11:09:28 AM

Title: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: eytanz on November 01, 2013, 11:09:28 AM
EP420: The Shunned Trailer (http://escapepod.org/2013/11/01/ep420-shunned-trailer/)

by Esther Friesner (http://www.sff.net/people/e.friesner/)

Read by Norm Sherman

--

(http://escapepod.org/wp-images/podcast-mini4.gif) Listen to this week’s Escape Pod! (http://traffic.libsyn.com/escapepod/EP420_TheShunnedTrailer.mp3)
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Kaa on November 01, 2013, 12:52:37 PM
Oh. Em. Gee. This just skyrocketed past a lot of other stories to be one of my favorites. I loved this unabashedly. I have sat at my desk giggling insanely to myself for the last 30 minutes, garnering odd looks and, frankly, not caring. It inspired me to seek out Ms. Friesner's email and send her a gibbering-fanboy email of praise.

Love it, love it, love it, love it, love it.

[The less said about that . . . whatever-it-was at the very end after the dying notes of the theme music, the better, though.]
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: chemistryguy on November 01, 2013, 02:59:01 PM
A lot of things written that would probably inspire anger as opposed to intelligent discourse   

Although I can appreciate the whimsical play on old-school writing and couldn't possibly think of a better person to read said text, I just couldn't get into this one.  I've never been a big fan of Lovecraft and it just feels like I've heard this story before. 

Also:
I've defended quite a few of the stories when some have complained about them not fitting into a particular genre, so I don't want to open that particular can of worms.  All I'd like to say is that an injection of some good ol' Arthur C. Clark or the like would feel mighty fine about now.

Peace out!
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Tara on November 01, 2013, 06:57:52 PM
I've been listening to Escape Pod for quite a long time, but I registered now just so I could comment on this one. Awesome, awesome, awesome. I've been reading a collection of Lovecraft short stories, so this was very timely. Did I mention that the story is awesome?
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: matweller on November 01, 2013, 08:08:05 PM
I asked Norm to Narrate this one because of his work narrating the Lovecraft month of The Drabblecast. You should totally check that out too - http://www.drabblecast.org/tag/lovecraft-month/ (http://www.drabblecast.org/tag/lovecraft-month/)
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Yarin on November 02, 2013, 03:29:26 AM
Before Cthulhu came about did I miss hear something or did the narrator shoot divine lighting from his hands?
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Myst on November 02, 2013, 09:25:37 PM
Fratboys and Cthulhu Fhtagn what's not to like.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Kaa on November 02, 2013, 09:27:18 PM
Before Cthulhu came about did I miss hear something or did the narrator shoot divine lighting from his hands?

I think so. I even rewound it and listened twice to that part to make sure I heard what I heard. I think maybe I'll have to listen to it again.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Yarin on November 02, 2013, 10:17:18 PM
I was hoping he'd be an even bigger monster than they were
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: adrianh on November 03, 2013, 01:06:48 PM
Laughed my arse off. Out loud.

Great story. Great reading.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: davidthygod on November 04, 2013, 12:10:17 AM
This story was awesome and fun and hilarious.  I wish I was smart and educated enough to get half of the overly erudite references he makes.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: TonyV on November 04, 2013, 01:36:38 AM
This was so awesome - I registered in the forums.

I can't imagine anyone else reading this - The delivery was flawless.

The ending brought me back to my teenage years reading HP and those sleepless nights.  The story itself was funny and a great homage to HP Lovecraft and New England.

Wow!

Tony V
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Windup on November 04, 2013, 04:14:57 AM

I thought this was hilarious.  Simultaneously skewering Lovecraft, Southern Evangelicals and the Ivy League is no mean feat, and it was done with panache.  And could anyone have possibly been a more perfect narrator for that than Norm Sherman?  No, definitely not…
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Fenrix on November 04, 2013, 03:24:02 PM
Awesome inclusion of The World's End in the parade. Probably the best film I've seen (and probably will see) this year. Yeah, I said it, PJ.

I'm happy to see the strong use of batrachian, as it's a significantly underloved word. However, I have to pedant a bit. Lovecraft only published that word once. Clark Ashton Smith, on the other hand, LOVED the word. I recommend The Mother of Toads and all the horrid batrachian flopping contained therein.

The truly unmentionable horror came at the very end after the closing music had faded out.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: albionmoonlight on November 05, 2013, 03:27:13 AM
"Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice."

But, in any event, however the world ends, I just want Norm narrating it.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Unblinking on November 05, 2013, 03:01:35 PM
Very entertaining story, and no better person to read it.  I'm surprised it wasn't run on Drabblecast's Lovecraft month.  I was laughing consistently throughout.  I found the old-timey Lovecraftian language contrasted with the modern setting a nice touch--but what would you expect of a Harvard man in the sticks?  Lots of funny little details, the party hat, the "Stephen Hawking is a Mack Daddy" tat, lots of good stuff.

And, hey, if this story can get accepted at Escape Pod, then mayhaps I have been too self-restrictive on what I submit.  I should submit that bogeyman love story, that story with the Fey sword inheritance, the story about the undead grandma, and the one about the talking pig. 
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Max e^{i pi} on November 05, 2013, 03:07:45 PM
Loved the language of this. Loved the narration. Loved the little jibes at everything from tacky lawn ornaments to the nation's best and brightest.
I also loved that I think I got all the jokes and references, but I will never be sure.

As for the bit at the end...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Unblinking on November 05, 2013, 03:08:07 PM
Also, minor note--Alasdair refers to Nate's Nightmare Lights of Mars feedback when it was actually the Big-Fisted Circuit feedback.  :)
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Max e^{i pi} on November 05, 2013, 03:11:13 PM
Also, minor note--Alasdair refers to Nate's Nightmare Lights of Mars feedback when it was actually the Big-Fisted Circuit feedback.  :)
Not the first time he's done that, I remember at least one other time when Alasdair's schedule was different from the one in our universe.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: matweller on November 05, 2013, 04:39:28 PM
As for the bit at the end...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For the record, the movie was a spoof, but that bit of the movie was a pop-culture spoof of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJmqCKtJnxM

The question is, why was this scene from Scary Movie appended to the end of the episode? The answer lies in your ID3 tags.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Max e^{i pi} on November 05, 2013, 07:06:35 PM
As for the bit at the end...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For the record, the movie was a spoof, but that bit of the movie was a pop-culture spoof of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJmqCKtJnxM

The question is, why was this scene from Scary Movie appended to the end of the episode? The answer lies in your ID3 tags.

I don't need them, Robot Lady gave away the answer.
But for those of you who didn't get it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Cutter McKay on November 05, 2013, 07:21:43 PM
And, hey, if this story can get accepted at Escape Pod, then mayhaps I have been too self-restrictive on what I submit.  I should submit that bogeyman love story, that story with the Fey sword inheritance, the story about the undead grandma, and the one about the talking pig. 

I'm going to beg that these stories don't get picked up here at EP. Not because I don't want to hear them, I'm sure their great coming from Unblinking, but because the only reason I'm not ranting about this story not being anywhere near sci-fi is because it was the Halloween episode and it was absolutely hilarious. I'm going to keep that complaint bottled up... this time ;)

As for the story, I loved about 95% of it. The language was perfect, the dichotomy of the setting brilliant, and there are no words in this language to praise Norm's narration. The one thing that I really didn't like was City Boy's sudden burst of divine lightening. I mean, where did that come from? If he had this power all along, why didn't he use it earlier? And why is he so put out by all of these crazy, cultist, magical events when he KNOWS he has some mystical powers, too? I mean, the whole thing was just completely out of character and completely unnecessary in my opinion. All he used that power for was to scare off the locals so he could have his one-on-one time with Cthulhu. There's no reason he couldn't have found a non-magical and completely plausible way to scare them off without this mysterious and unexplained power. [/rant]

Other than that one quibble, I laughed myself silly listening to this brilliantly written piece.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: matweller on November 05, 2013, 08:17:46 PM
As for the bit at the end...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For the record, the movie was a spoof, but that bit of the movie was a pop-culture spoof of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJmqCKtJnxM

The question is, why was this scene from Scary Movie appended to the end of the episode? The answer lies in your ID3 tags.

I don't need them, Robot Lady gave away the answer.
But for those of you who didn't get it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I can't take credit for the random XML, but thanks for the tip, I'll look into it. I am annoyed the message got cut off. Both issues are most likely a gift from either Podpress, which generates the feed or (more likely) Libsyn, who houses the file.

Actually, since it got cut off in the tags, I should probably just come out and say it. "Episode 420 falls on Halloween, hence the clip being from a weed-induced scene from Scary Movie." It made me laugh. Feel free to ignore it or email me any complaints.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Varda on November 05, 2013, 09:10:19 PM
Wow. Great story, and I agree that you couldn't pick a better narrator than Norm for the job. I completely lost it at the condom of "non-Euclidean dimensions"! I also appreciated the cleverness of both paying tribute to Lovecraft's obsession with racial intermixing while simultaneously parodying it in the most delicious and hilarious way possible. Fun, subversive, and quite original all around.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: PotatoKnight on November 05, 2013, 10:59:43 PM

If he had this power all along, why didn't he use it earlier? And why is he so put out by all of these crazy, cultist, magical events when he KNOWS he has some mystical powers, too? I mean, the whole thing was just completely out of character and completely unnecessary in my opinion. All he used that power for was to scare off the locals so he could have his one-on-one time with Cthulhu. There's no reason he couldn't have found a non-magical and completely plausible way to scare them off without this mysterious and unexplained power. [/rant]


Not that you have to like it and obviously it was a bit out of left field -- part of the joke -- but I don't think it's out of character for him to suddenly have the powers. As for why he didn't use them earlier--there was no reason to. He doesn't stick around with the cultists because he's a prisoner.  They tell him to not be condescending with the relatives  or hit the road, but hitting the road is an option. He's staying out of politeness, because they kept him out of the rain and he promised to stick around. I never get the sense that he's particularly afraid of them, just disgusted. What sets off the divine fury is the horrific insult of suggesting he went to Yale--which is key set-up for the joke at the end.

I also like it as worldbuilding. In a world where there's Miskatonic University and priests of Cthulhu to to Yale Divinity, how cool do the magic powers have to be at Harvard?

As everyone noted, this was the story Norm was born to read. It was nice and ironic that the voice of Cthuhlu was Norm at his least sinister.  I was at first a little annoyed by the whole "loutish guy speaks in highfalutin' language," feeling that I'd heard it before until the realization that it was specifically a Lovecraft pastiche which I think it does quite well.

Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Yttermayn on November 06, 2013, 03:09:24 AM
So is everything in the parade from a movie?   I  am scratching my head,  trying to figure out why none of it sounds familiar,  except maybe the Pacific rim robots at the end and the unmistakable elysium reference.  What are these other things I've somehow missed out on,  Alistair?   Pm me? 
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Unblinking on November 06, 2013, 02:28:01 PM
I also like it as worldbuilding. In a world where there's Miskatonic University and priests of Cthulhu to to Yale Divinity, how cool do the magic powers have to be at Harvard?

That was my take on it too.  I didn't think it was out of character for him at all to have superpowers.  He is a Harvard man, after all, and if he is to be believed there is no greater pedigree of humanity under the sun than a Harvard man.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Alasdair5000 on November 06, 2013, 02:47:43 PM
I also like it as worldbuilding. In a world where there's Miskatonic University and priests of Cthulhu to to Yale Divinity, how cool do the magic powers have to be at Harvard?

That was my take on it too.  I didn't think it was out of character for him at all to have superpowers.  He is a Harvard man, after all, and if he is to be believed there is no greater pedigree of humanity under the sun than a Harvard man.

Some movies, some comics, a little TV. There'll be a complete rundown of both this and the Pseudopod parade going up shortly:)
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: PotatoKnight on November 06, 2013, 07:38:24 PM
I also like it as worldbuilding. In a world where there's Miskatonic University and priests of Cthulhu to to Yale Divinity, how cool do the magic powers have to be at Harvard?

That was my take on it too.  I didn't think it was out of character for him at all to have superpowers.  He is a Harvard man, after all, and if he is to be believed there is no greater pedigree of humanity under the sun than a Harvard man.

The enticing question is, what are other schools like? We get mention of Radcliffe and (the author's alma mater) Vassar. As a westerner, I have to wonder how MIT and Harvard's western rivals Caltech and Stanford compare. And whether people to to the University of Iowa to get their MFA in Unspeakable Text Writing, to CalArts for Idol Sculpting, or to Cornell for Horrifying Non-Eclidean Archictecture.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Unblinking on November 06, 2013, 08:06:41 PM
I also like it as worldbuilding. In a world where there's Miskatonic University and priests of Cthulhu to to Yale Divinity, how cool do the magic powers have to be at Harvard?

That was my take on it too.  I didn't think it was out of character for him at all to have superpowers.  He is a Harvard man, after all, and if he is to be believed there is no greater pedigree of humanity under the sun than a Harvard man.

The enticing question is, what are other schools like? We get mention of Radcliffe and (the author's alma mater) Vassar. As a westerner, I have to wonder how MIT and Harvard's western rivals Caltech and Stanford compare. And whether people to to the University of Iowa to get their MFA in Unspeakable Text Writing, to CalArts for Idol Sculpting, or to Cornell for Horrifying Non-Eclidean Archictecture.

Yes!  Awesome questions.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Unblinking on November 06, 2013, 08:07:24 PM
I also like it as worldbuilding. In a world where there's Miskatonic University and priests of Cthulhu to to Yale Divinity, how cool do the magic powers have to be at Harvard?

That was my take on it too.  I didn't think it was out of character for him at all to have superpowers.  He is a Harvard man, after all, and if he is to be believed there is no greater pedigree of humanity under the sun than a Harvard man.

Some movies, some comics, a little TV. There'll be a complete rundown of both this and the Pseudopod parade going up shortly:)

Al, I think you meant to quote Yttermayn's post.  :)
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Peevester on November 06, 2013, 11:33:58 PM
This was a very long way to go for an Ivy League rivalry joke, but the delivery was so good that I can't dislike it.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: BLCrawshaw on November 07, 2013, 06:26:47 AM
Southern Fried Cthulhu. This was an awesome story! It had me laughing from beginning to end. I really enjoyed the tongue-in-cheek humor. It reminded me of Good Omens by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman in which the seriousness of certain religious people does not matter to divine beings. Also, Ma reminded me of Ma Vreedle from Ben 10: Omniverse (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131022165659/ben10/images/thumb/6/63/Ma_vreedle_ov_full_body.png/300px-Ma_vreedle_ov_full_body.png)
Quite the resemblance, huh? Other than that, this story really made my night and helped me get through the rest of work day. Keep that awesome stories coming!
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: InfiniteMonkey on November 08, 2013, 02:48:17 AM
It took me longer than it should have to get to this, and I'm sorry of that, because it was hysterically funny. I should have known what I was in for the minute I heard the word "Cyclopian".

And making it all the more funny was Norm's Dennis Leary-Ian Shoales-Hunter S. Thompson growl (though perhaps that's the wrong term... purr?).

As for Alasdair's challenge, I can be sure of really only two, Oblivion and Pacific Rim... is the this the right place for speculation?

Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: PotatoKnight on November 08, 2013, 06:28:20 AM
The one I was sure of was Alien -- or more specifically Ripley ("the survivor").  I think there was also some Roadside Picnic/Stalker/S.T.A.L.K.E.R., but I may be misremembering.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Windup on November 09, 2013, 02:08:50 AM
Yeah, I heard Ripley as "the survivor" as well. 

And was the first float Roberts Universal Robots?  I haven't read it -- I thought it was a play -- but I see references to it as having popularized the use of the word "robot" to mean a human-like machine.  I think it's actually a Czech word that means "worker" but the author applied it to the "mechanical workers" in his story.

I think I got "Oblivion," and the robots of "Pacific Rim" as well.  But that's about it…
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Fenrix on November 09, 2013, 03:31:35 AM
Y'all really need to see The World's End.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Jen on November 09, 2013, 03:55:56 PM
I loved this one - giggled my way through the afternoon rush and even enjoyed the commute. And Norm's reading made the story even better!
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Prophet on November 09, 2013, 06:11:37 PM
Beautifully written. Masterfully read. Enjoyable from start to finish. Not much else I can say.

This story reminded me of EP25: The Great Old Pumpkin (http://escapepod.org/2005/10/27/ep025-the-great-old-pumpkin/).
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: eigenvector on November 11, 2013, 05:44:50 AM
The writing and narration were excellent, but the concept is problematic. The story is comparing poor religious people who live in trailers with hideous creatures that worship the Elder Gods. Classism is a prejudice like any other, and it's something I'd like to see less of in fiction.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Windup on November 11, 2013, 06:40:09 AM

The writing and narration were excellent, but the concept is problematic. The story is comparing poor religious people who live in trailers with hideous creatures that worship the Elder Gods. Classism is a prejudice like any other, and it's something I'd like to see less of in fiction.


I thought about that as I was listening to it, but realized that the story was equally unsparing in it's ridicule of the Ivy League elite.  Even Lord Cthulhu (and by extension, H.P. Lovecraft) didn't escape unscathed. 

I invoke the "Will & Grace Exception" on this one:  It isn't mean-spirited if you make fun of EVERYBODY.  ;D
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: InfiniteMonkey on November 11, 2013, 06:56:11 AM
The writing and narration were excellent, but the concept is problematic. The story is comparing poor religious people who live in trailers with hideous creatures that worship the Elder Gods. Classism is a prejudice like any other, and it's something I'd like to see less of in fiction.


I'm not sure I agree. The trailer-park Cthulhu worshippers are blessedly free of pretention when they discuss their northern cousins.

Does it indulge in stereotypes? Yeah. But I don't think the author is equating ALL trailer-park people with hideous creatures, but more "wouldn't be funny if Lovecraft's creatures lived in a rural American trailer park?"

And the narrator is clearly a feckless cad in any case.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Fenrix on November 11, 2013, 03:08:28 PM
Fear of The Other is a frequent theme in Lovecraft, both in terms of race and class. "The Lurking Fear" and "The Picture in the House" are both very effective stories where the protagonist's fear of the degenerate mongrel population fuel the unease they feel in the area. The classism is yet another nod towards Lovecraft, and handled in an irreverent but balanced fashion. 
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: evrgrn_monster on November 12, 2013, 04:01:31 AM
I had a lot of fun riding along with this story. Normally, I'm not usually one for satire. My main issue with satirical pieces that are so focused on a single author or subject matter is that oftentimes, they forget to actually be a story, as opposed to just a joke. That's what separates movies like Shaun of the Dead from just your normal satirical horror blah-fests; take out all the humor from Shaun, and you have a truly horrifying zombie movie. It never forgets to love where it came from. This story gave me the same feeling. Take out the humor, and it's classic Lovecraft - horrific and hopeless - and that's what made it a great story. Sure it was funny, absolutely hilarious, in fact, but underneath all the weird condoms and haughty ivy-league bashing was something pretty bone-chilling. Major props to the author, because it was obvious that this was someone who adores the work of Lovecraft, and lovingly hacked it apart to make a great piece of short fiction.

That being said, I do have a shameful enjoyment of the first Scary Movie. Guilty pleasure right there.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Hilary Moon Murphy on November 12, 2013, 04:09:01 AM
I'm going to join in the love fest for this one.  Pure hilarious fun.  The author's witty language delighted me throughout this piece.  Where else would you get a line like: "Her mouth was something that even Mick Jagger would have to kiss in installments"?

Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: bizbrig on November 13, 2013, 05:29:55 PM
Ten thumbs up.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: PotatoKnight on November 13, 2013, 05:44:10 PM
Fear of The Other is a frequent theme in Lovecraft, both in terms of race and class.

Didn't want to necessarily derail the conversation about this story (which is very much not saying that low-income folk are like Cthuhlu-worshipers since it outright says that lots of privileged folks are also Cthuhlu-worshipers, but whose trailer park portrayal is not unproblematic) with a discussion of problematic things about Lovecraft, but yeah. I would go further than the above and say Lovecraft was a capital-R Racist.  You know how we say that some people are racist by today's standards but reasonable by the standards of their time? Lovecraft was pretty racist by the standards of his time. It's pretty hard to read some of his stories aloud without constantly cringing.

The interesting question that I've never seen addressed and I'm not sure how I feel about is whether the genre of cosmic horror itself (which I do quite like) can be fully divorced from the racism of its origins (which is not just Lovecraft's). That Fear of the Other you mention is the emotional core of the genre. That Other in more contempiorary pieces is a lot more "alien" than different races or classes of human beings.  Yet there is something uncomfortable, when you think about it, about a genre that roots itself in the same fears that have given rise to the worst human atrocities and treats those fears as reasonable. That aspect of the genre is very resonant and maybe that's the real, secret, uncosmic horror.

Bringing this back to the story at hand, it is possible to see this story as it plays with the genre conventions as pushing back a bit against this uncomfortable part of the genre. This story takes the Other from the Lovecraft stories and makes it Us. Some Cthuhlu worshipers are not unlike charismatic Christian denominations, others basically like mainline Protestants. Cthuhlu himself is no unimaginable alien intelligence--just a guy, and one willing to show up and help out in a natural disaster. The rising of Ry'leh is basically an engineering project. Though I won't say it's part of the story's purpose, it is interesting how a more or less loving ribbing of the genre can also puncture one of its roots.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Fenrix on November 13, 2013, 06:34:59 PM

Didn't want to necessarily derail the conversation about this story (which is very much not saying that low-income folk are like Cthuhlu-worshipers since it outright says that lots of privileged folks are also Cthuhlu-worshipers, but whose trailer park portrayal is not unproblematic) with a discussion of problematic things about Lovecraft, but yeah. I would go further than the above and say Lovecraft was a capital-R Racist.  You know how we say that some people are racist by today's standards but reasonable by the standards of their time? Lovecraft was pretty racist by the standards of his time. It's pretty hard to read some of his stories aloud without constantly cringing.

The interesting question that I've never seen addressed and I'm not sure how I feel about is whether the genre of cosmic horror itself (which I do quite like) can be fully divorced from the racism of its origins (which is not just Lovecraft's). That Fear of the Other you mention is the emotional core of the genre. That Other in more contempiorary pieces is a lot more "alien" than different races or classes of human beings.  Yet there is something uncomfortable, when you think about it, about a genre that roots itself in the same fears that have given rise to the worst human atrocities and treats those fears as reasonable. That aspect of the genre is very resonant and maybe that's the real, secret, uncosmic horror.


I think it would be more accurate to say he was raised and started his writing career as a "capital-R Racist" but as he matured and saw more of the world, his views became more tempered. The jaw-droppingly offensive pieces are earlier in his career, and he got significantly better after he move back to Providence from New York City. There's a definite evolution, not a toggle switch flipped to hate.

One interesting interpretation of The Shadow Over Innsmouth that I've read is a coming to terms with being The Other. Our protagonist finds out by the end that he is one of Them. And rather than being full of self loathing and dread, it's almost a hopeful ending full of acceptance.

"I shall plan my cousin’s escape from that Canton madhouse, and together we shall go to marvel-shadowed Innsmouth. We shall swim out to that brooding reef in the sea and dive down through black abysses to Cyclopean and many-columned Y’ha-nthlei, and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory for ever."

Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Gary on November 15, 2013, 02:57:44 AM
This story snuck up on me and then had me laughing out loud. The 1% meet the none%. Just so much fun!

I will say that when the tornado showed up though, some of the air went out of it and when the frat boy suddenly had powers, it kind of spoiled the joke for me. For me, the joke wasn't the red-neck stereo-types, or Cthulu worshipers or frog people ... but that this guy suddenly finds himself in the midst of this utterly impossible and alien situation and doesn't freak-out because that just wouldn't be done! So he just acts normal. He's in waay over his head but continues to act as if he was in control of things.

When he suddenly turns out to have powers it's like "Oh. That's why he didn't freak out. This IS all perfectly normal to him and he actually was in control the whole time."

Still, up until then the ride was worth the effort!
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: bounceswoosh on November 15, 2013, 06:17:28 PM
I tried to rationalize the portrayal of the "hicks" by figuring it was just the college boy's point of view, and that he was pretty scathing in his descriptions of everyone in the story, not just the trailer park residents - but ultimately it was just too uncomfortable.  I liked the story, but I also felt it was, as PotatoKnight said, "problematic."  And I'm not sure how you could write the same story without having those problematic elements.  And yes, it was funny.  But substitute the hicks with black people with caricature physical features, eating watermelon and fried chicken, and see if you can stomach it.

My husband went to MIT, so I *did* laugh out loud at the last few lines!
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Dem on November 18, 2013, 03:07:00 PM
No, no wiser. At least from reading the comments I can see it's because I don't read Lovecraft, have no idea what Cthulu is (or are. Ok, now I do) and don't have much idea about Ivy League universities because ours are Oxbridge (Ancient), red brick (modern and sniffed at by the Ancients), or 'jumped up polytechnics' (very modern and sniffed at by both Ancient and Modern but at least you can do media studies there and who needs Latin?). That and we don't have trailer parks so I was thinking about the ones that precede new films. Ah well, can't win 'em all!
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: PotatoKnight on November 18, 2013, 03:57:11 PM
No, no wiser. At least from reading the comments I can see it's because I don't read Lovecraft, have no idea what Cthulu is (or are. Ok, now I do) and don't have much idea about Ivy League universities because ours are Oxbridge (Ancient), red brick (modern and sniffed at by the Ancients), or 'jumped up polytechnics' (very modern and sniffed at by both Ancient and Modern but at least you can do media studies there and who needs Latin?). That and we don't have trailer parks so I was thinking about the ones that precede new films. Ah well, can't win 'em all!

Well, the cultural bases for this story probably run too deep for any "translation" to bring this story back for you (the pastiche of Lovecraft's prose style is a big part of what I liked about this one) and it seems you've got the gist, but here's my effort:

The Ivy League is the US's equivalent to the "Ancients," though not as ancient.  Harvard and Yale are the ancient-est (literally in the case of Harvard, though I think there are other US universites older than Yale though newer than Harvard).  They are steeped in tradition and use things like latin mottoes and look like the old European universities they were modeled on.  Vassar and Radcliffe were part of the "Seven Sisters"--the women's college equivalent of the Ivy League back in the day.  Radcliffe has now been incorporatated in to Harvard and Vassar is no longer a women-only college.

MIT would be the equivalent of a "jumped up polytechnic" and has the distinction of being as or more prestigious than Yale or Harvard, while rejecting many of the pretentions of those schools.  There is no latin motto, no graduation with honors.  If you say you went to MIT, everyone knows you are smart.  If you say you went to Yale or Harvard, everyone knows you are either smart or well-connected.  One tradition they do have is their class ring which has a beaver on it--nature's engineer.

The "English" translation of trailer park is, as I understand it, caravan park.  They are strongly associated with the lower-class whites.  It is the one of the lowest-prestige places you can be in the US (a stark contrast to the Ivy League schools).  As has been noted, this story embodies some negative stereotypes of poor rural whites.

Also worth noting is that poor rural whites are associated with various evangelical brands of Christianity (this is a bit dated--evangelical Christianity having spread to wealthier suburban folks).  These forms of Christianity largely originate in and are widely popular in the US and reject book education and seminary degrees in favor of strong personal spiritual connection with God.  The cultists in this story are an imagining of what that evangelical bent would look like with the worshipers of an ancient unfathomable evil.  This retroactively reframes the cultists that appear in actual Lovecraft stories as the equivalent of more sedate mainline protestant denominations whose religious leaders would go and study and who have fancy trappings of belief that Evangelicals would reject.

Edit: Post originally said cultists worship an ancient unfathomable detail. Poetic, but inaccurate.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Dem on November 18, 2013, 05:46:07 PM
I think our 'jumped up polytechnics' would be delighted to be compared with MIT and our red bricks include University College London which is neither reddy nor bricky! It was founded on egalitarianism of entry though, which makes it an all round good egg. This story, I will have to pass on - I'm just not immersed enough in the key cultural references. Note to self: write a piece for EP that features the Brummie crew of a generation ship whose captain is an unreconstructed Glaswegian and First Mate a Celtic supporter. Will anyone survive the first week?
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Alasdair5000 on November 18, 2013, 06:29:51 PM
Do this. Do this and I swear we will find readers for it. Many of which may be me.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: eytanz on November 18, 2013, 07:15:08 PM
No, no wiser. At least from reading the comments I can see it's because I don't read Lovecraft, have no idea what Cthulu is (or are. Ok, now I do) and don't have much idea about Ivy League universities because ours are Oxbridge (Ancient), red brick (modern and sniffed at by the Ancients), or 'jumped up polytechnics' (very modern and sniffed at by both Ancient and Modern but at least you can do media studies there and who needs Latin?). That and we don't have trailer parks so I was thinking about the ones that precede new films. Ah well, can't win 'em all!

There's a category between "red brick" and "jumped up polytechnics" - for what it's worth, the red bricks were founded in the 19th century, and the polytechnics became universities in the early 90s. Quite a few of the UK's universities were founded in between, especially the ones that form the 1960s group, including the University of York, where I teach.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Dem on November 18, 2013, 07:42:55 PM
Probably includes Sussex, where I've taught. It was derided as the place 'trade' successes sent their kids if they couldn't get them into Oxbridge. Very arty at the time, now rather more hard core. I spend quite a bit of time at what was the teacher training college over the road - now Brighton university. Used to lob stuff at each other over the A27 in the 1960s! Nearly did my PhD at York :)
Ok, apols for Brit-cademia thread hijack!
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: InfiniteMonkey on November 19, 2013, 02:16:36 AM
I would guess that the nearest thing to "red brick" would be the larger State schools. Like the UC system in California. But we're, well, big, and have a lot of different levels of higher educational systems.

And the Ivy League looks down on them, but then the Ivy League looks down on *everybody*.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: PotatoKnight on November 19, 2013, 02:39:45 AM
I'm guessing polytechnic has a slightly different meaning in the UK than simply school with "Institute of Technology" in its name? Since that's about all I can get out of Wikipedia and by that definition MIT surely qualifies.
Title: Re: Re: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: bounceswoosh on November 19, 2013, 03:02:13 AM
No, no wiser. At least from reading the comments I can see it's because I don't read Lovecraft, have no idea what Cthulu is (or are. Ok, now I do) and don't have much idea about Ivy League universities because ours are Oxbridge (Ancient), red brick (modern and sniffed at by the Ancients), or 'jumped up polytechnics' (very modern and sniffed at by both Ancient and Modern but at least you can do media studies there and who needs Latin?). That and we don't have trailer parks so I was thinking about the ones that precede new films. Ah well, can't win 'em all!

Well, the cultural bases for this story probably run too deep for any "translation" to bring this story back for you (the pastiche of Lovecraft's prose style is a big part of what I liked about this one) and it seems you've got the gist, but here's my effort:

The Ivy League is the US's equivalent to the "Ancients," though not as ancient.  Harvard and Yale are the ancient-est (literally in the case of Harvard, though I think there are other US universites older than Yale though newer than Harvard).  They are steeped in tradition and use things like latin mottoes and look like the old European universities they were modeled on.  Vassar and Radcliffe were part of the "Seven Sisters"--the women's college equivalent of the Ivy League back in the day.  Radcliffe has now been incorporatated in to Harvard and Vassar is no longer a women-only college.

Ooh ooh. The College of William and Mary, where I went, makes it very clear that while Harvard was completed first, W&M was planned earlier. Or was it the other way around? Once upon a time, this sort of thing was very important to me.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Kwisin on November 19, 2013, 04:02:18 AM
AWESOME... I blew milk outta both nostrils... uhhh..wait .. I wasn't drinkin milk.. ???.. no matter... this story was da bomb!!!

Almost as funny are the pretentious efforts to analyze, trivialize and criticize the stories here...
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Dem on November 19, 2013, 12:56:27 PM
Do this. Do this and I swear we will find readers for it. Many of which may be me.
Don't tempt me ...
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Devoted135 on November 19, 2013, 10:41:01 PM
Having downloaded a collection of Lovecraft's short stories a while back, and having very recently gotten into the Arkham Horror board game, I LOVED this! I thought it was a note-for-note perfect send up of all that was near and dear to his heart. And of course, Norm gave a fantastic narration. :)
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Carlos Ferreira on November 20, 2013, 07:35:01 PM

I thought this was hilarious. Simultaneously skewering Lovecraft, Southern Evangelicals and the Ivy League is no mean feat, and it was done with panache. And could anyone have possibly been a more perfect narrator for that than Norm Sherman? No, definitely not…

This is exactly what I thought. I loved the social critique here - what happens when an Ivy League, probably high-middle class white guy finds himself rescued by the people in a trailer park? How does he negotiate the feelings of mild repugnance, perhaps even fear, and the need to show himself equal to the debt he owes to people he probably called trailer trash just the day before? This is what good SFF is about, projecting reality back to us, using the speculative and the fantastic.

Oh, and the end... that was just brilliant, one of the most satisfying ends I can remember in a story.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: FireTurtle on January 07, 2014, 09:56:02 PM
I am so late to the party as to be completely irrelevant but I just have to say I loved this. I listened to it while taking my dogs on a long walk around the neighborhood. I received numerous concerned looks and stares as I helplessly giggled at thin air and occaisionally had to wipe a tear from my eye. I'm amazed I had the strength to hold onto the leashes. The tattoo, the Mick Jagger lips, the Yale fury, the Vassar girls, the fish-stick Cthulu, I could go on and on.
Thank you, Escapepod for making it quite a happy new year for this listener.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Fenrix on January 07, 2014, 10:16:15 PM

I am so late to the party as to be completely irrelevant but I just have to say I loved this. I listened to it while taking my dogs in a long walk around the neighborhood. I received numerous concerned looks as stares as I helplessly giggled at thin air and occaisionally had to wipe a tear from my eye. I'm amazed I had the strength to hold onto the leashes. The tattoo, the Mick Jagger lips, the Yale fury, the Vassar girls, the fish-stick Cthulu, I could go on and on.

Thank you, Escapepod for making it quite a happy new year for this listener.


A thank you is NEVER irrelevant. Shine on you crazy diamond.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: LaShawn on January 31, 2014, 05:02:44 PM
I'm just now listening to this, and I just got to the part about the condom.

DIES. DIES. DIESDIESDIESDIESDIESDIESDIESDIES....

I just wanted to say that.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Zee Topp on February 10, 2014, 03:49:14 AM
Oh youz guys...listening to this episode whilst treadmilling made me look a little more than spastic.

a little?.

Cocking my head this way and that while thinking wtf did he just say?...oh no he din'...oh yes he did. Followed by bursting out in laughter and just as quickly choking it back barely in time to prevent a full out conniption.

Maybe I should have expected something a bit different from an episode numbered 420. Lesson learned.

Lyrical and witty, unrelenting this replaced my favorite Escape Artists episode yet. Bravo!
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: CryptoMe on March 29, 2014, 05:15:42 PM
Well, I was not a fan of the writing style for this one. I found the wordiness reminiscent of a 2nd year university undergrad, oh so thrilled with their own cleverness. Reading the forums, I see this was intentional, as an homage to H.P. Lovecraft. Well, now I know why I never got into Lovecraft (not just the story topics, apparently) and why I never will.

There were some very funny bits in the story. On the whole, though, I found the plot to also be reminiscent of a 2nd year university undergrad, oh so thrilled with their own cleverness. I guess this one really just wasn't for me.
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: hardware on April 17, 2014, 01:32:53 PM
This one was OK, not so much more. I feel a bit oversaturated with the whole Lovecraft mythos, Cthulu references are the new Star Wars references in the geek world, it seems, in terms of ubiquity. But it mimicked the style of Lovecraft pretty well, and had it moments of comedy. 
Title: Re: EP420: The Shunned Trailer
Post by: Unblinking on June 17, 2014, 05:21:09 PM
I put this as #30 on my Best Podcast Fiction of All Time list:
http://www.sfsignal.com/archives/2014/06/the-best-podcast-fiction-of-all-time-21-30/