Author Topic: EP088: Blood of Virgins  (Read 42942 times)

Russell Nash

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Reply #25 on: January 17, 2007, 11:51:59 AM
It trod a well-worn groove of anti-corporate environmentalism.

But my car takes me to work, lets me travel freely, and takes my kid to the doctor.   You have to work pretty hard to convince me that I shouldn't drive my kid to the doctor. 

There is nothing in this story that says there are no cars or other transportation. It does in fact mention not only bike paths, but streets. If everyone got around by dragon, they wouldn't need the streets. Also if Chris' parents had the money to buy him the dragon equivalent of a Mustang GT, they would have had enough for they're own if they wanted.

I don't think the author is slamming corporations for making cars as much as he's making a statement about peoples' choices of cars.

example:
My bother has a mini-van with 240HP! That's stupid! His Mustang "only" had 225. This van uses much more gas than it needs to just to have power available that it can't use.

Let me explain that last part. This van is front wheel drive and has passenger car tires. When the the van is put under hard excelleration, the front end of the van lifts (normal to all cars) and the tires have less weight to hold then against the road would start to slip if the traction control system didn't limit the engine power. At highway speed the van hardly needs 50 or 60HP. This thing has probably never needed more than 140HP and never will, but he uses the extra gas to have that power on hand.

Over-powered cars and trucks. Vehicles far bigger than anyone needs. The buying of a car just because of what the neighbors will think. This is what I feel the Author was commenting on. He's not saying anything against the family with the Camry for the whole family and the Corrolla for the commuter.

Oh yeah. I take the subway to work, the train on vacation, and my kids to the doctor's in a stroller. All of which are faster, safer, cheaper, and more enviromental. The car(yes I do have one) gets less than 4000 miles a year. Last point, I pay over six dollars a gallon and I don't care because I only fill up once every four to six weeks. The huge gas tax is used to buy open land and put it under protection from developement.



Bdoomed

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Reply #26 on: January 17, 2007, 10:01:55 PM
A Modest Proposal was Swift, not Moore.

Cheers

Seriously tho, as "satire" goes there is good satire like The Futurological Congress, The Sirens Of Titan or HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy...  And there is less good satire.  Being satirical doesn't make things good.


HAHA i KNEW it didnt sound right! gosh i feel stupid now! thanks for the correction, Jonnathan Swift.. im sorry!
(oh and for what its worth, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is the best book(s) ive ever read)

$6 a gallon! wow thats a lot!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 10:20:07 PM by Bdoomed »

I'd like to hear my options, so I could weigh them, what do you say?
Five pounds?  Six pounds? Seven pounds?


wakela

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Reply #27 on: January 18, 2007, 04:01:38 AM
Where's my post!!!!  I spent like an hour on that thing!  Full of quotes, links, intellectual references, clever turns of phrase, and puns.  Oh, the puns.  sigh

Summary:
OK, the moral of the story may be less "cars and companies are bad" and more "are our luxury items worth the costs."  Still, this does not make it particularly interesting to me.  It's a message I hear over and over again in the media. 

Quote
its not like there is anything new here
Then should it be on an SF/F podcast?




Maximus-Primus

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Reply #28 on: January 18, 2007, 05:58:15 AM
It seams to me, after reading all the posts, that I'm either way older than most of the posting crowd or some have forgotten after school specials.

what do you mean by that? although you are most likely older than me, what do ya mean by that?

The story was written like an after school special. for those who do not know what one is, an after school special was a TV show on "after school" and it was usually an over dramatized morel dilemma. i.e. Do I spend the money I worked hard for, on the radio I want to buy or do I donate some/all of it to the feed the hungry. Or something along those lines. We were often forced to watch one of these as a group by our kind and loving but misguided mothers.
Since no one else was saying much along this line ( about the story's moral over dramatization ) I thought I would post a comment about that and see if anyone else saw the same connection between the too. I was not trying to bag on anyones age.



Romirez

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Reply #29 on: January 18, 2007, 01:26:02 PM
I also thought the story was rather poor, to be honest. To me, this wasn't even a fantasy story - it was just a environmentalist case study or something. You can replace "dragon" with "car" and "blood" with "gas" and the story stays pretty much the same, except now it's not a "fantasy" work, just fiction. I like a bit more depth to the sci-fi/fantasy aspect of stories that are labeled as such.

edit: how in the world did I manage to type 'although' instead of 'also'
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 07:03:06 PM by Romirez »



jrderego

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Reply #30 on: January 18, 2007, 01:53:37 PM
It seams to me, after reading all the posts, that I'm either way older than most of the posting crowd or some have forgotten after school specials.

what do you mean by that? although you are most likely older than me, what do ya mean by that?

The story was written like an after school special. for those who do not know what one is, an after school special was a TV show on "after school" and it was usually an over dramatized morel dilemma. i.e. Do I spend the money I worked hard for, on the radio I want to buy or do I donate some/all of it to the feed the hungry. Or something along those lines. We were often forced to watch one of these as a group by our kind and loving but misguided mothers.
Since no one else was saying much along this line ( about the story's moral over dramatization ) I thought I would post a comment about that and see if anyone else saw the same connection between the too. I was not trying to bag on anyones age.

Sort off, but not really off topic... Does anyone remember the Afterschool Special "The Wave" where a teacher is asked by his high school sophomores how everyday Germans could become Nazis. The teacher decides to show them by starting and leading an afterschool club called "The Wave" and his charisma makes it a nationside phenomena? At the end at a big schoolwide gathering he unveils the real leader of "The Wave" to his audience of cheering teenage brownshirts.

Hitler.

I know I saw this one (among the date rape, drunk driving, and don't-take-quaaludes-before-the-prom ones).  I didn't dream it, honest.

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Russell Nash

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Reply #31 on: January 18, 2007, 04:45:38 PM
It seams to me, after reading all the posts, that I'm either way older than most of the posting crowd or some have forgotten after school specials.

what do you mean by that? although you are most likely older than me, what do ya mean by that?

The story was written like an after school special. for those who do not know what one is, an after school special was a TV show on "after school" and it was usually an over dramatized morel dilemma. i.e. Do I spend the money I worked hard for, on the radio I want to buy or do I donate some/all of it to the feed the hungry. Or something along those lines. We were often forced to watch one of these as a group by our kind and loving but misguided mothers.
Since no one else was saying much along this line ( about the story's moral over dramatization ) I thought I would post a comment about that and see if anyone else saw the same connection between the too. I was not trying to bag on anyones age.

Sort off, but not really off topic... Does anyone remember the Afterschool Special "The Wave" where a teacher is asked by his high school sophomores how everyday Germans could become Nazis. The teacher decides to show them by starting and leading an afterschool club called "The Wave" and his charisma makes it a nationside phenomena? At the end at a big schoolwide gathering he unveils the real leader of "The Wave" to his audience of cheering teenage brownshirts.

Hitler.

I know I saw this one (among the date rape, drunk driving, and don't-take-quaaludes-before-the-prom ones).  I didn't dream it, honest.

I heard that one on This American Life. Some teacher really did that about 15 or 20 years ago.



radiant-man

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Reply #32 on: January 18, 2007, 07:59:17 PM
Not wishing to debate on fantasy’s place on Escape Pod or the political viewpoints expressed in story.  Just wanted to say that I enjoyed the story great deal.  Disappointed by lack of rampaging and city destruction, but will survive. 

And yes, 200 foot lizards don’t need no rescue.

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Bdoomed

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Reply #33 on: January 19, 2007, 01:14:23 AM
ugh ive been away too long, so much readin on this convorsation to do...
but
i DID see the wave in... 8th grade!  tis a true story too! kinda scary no?

I'd like to hear my options, so I could weigh them, what do you say?
Five pounds?  Six pounds? Seven pounds?


Brian Reilly

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Reply #34 on: January 20, 2007, 10:31:48 AM
It's taken me a while to listen to this one- I've been behind on my podcast listening. And I loved it (It's making me think I've neglected the Realistic Fantasy genre somewhat). I didn't feel the satirical elements overwhelmed the story. Unlike the dryads story, this was about the main character and his own personal life, with the idea of dragons as cars providing background. I didn't see it as a polemic at all.

I liked how the story turned out to be about the main character's own insecurities about sex, maturity, popularity, peer pressure etc. Fantasy monsters as metaphors for our own insecurities? Very Buffy. :D

If the story had been written to slam car culture, I think it would have been very different. It was about coming of age, not politics!


The 21st Century is when it all changes, and you’ve gotta be ready- Captain Jack, Torchwood.


SFEley

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Reply #35 on: January 20, 2007, 03:55:02 PM
Administrivia: All of the posts on transit and hybrid cars have been moved to a new thread.  That's no criticism on anybody, I just figured it was drifting too far from the story discussion and would flourish better as its own topic.  Carry on!

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Ryuujin

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Reply #36 on: January 22, 2007, 12:00:33 PM
What I'd like to see is some SF writer make up an entirely different political view of an alien species and see how well they mix up with humans and our (to them) weird ways.

But that's probably not likely to be submitted to Escape Pod, I'm thinking - though I'm sure that there are at least a few titles worth mentioning in novels and longer books.



wakela

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Reply #37 on: January 22, 2007, 12:38:01 PM
Quote
What I'd like to see is some SF writer make up an entirely different political view of an alien species and see how well they mix up with humans and our (to them) weird ways.

Grab a keyboard and start writing, Ryuujin!  I'm sure it would be awesome.  BTW, have you read the Uplift books by David Brin?

BTW2: I study Japanese, but I'm having a hard time with your little tagline.  Whats it mean?



darusha

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Reply #38 on: January 23, 2007, 11:20:02 PM
If the story had been written to slam car culture, I think it would have been very different. It was about coming of age, not politics!

I think it was about both, which was its problem for me.  The car/ecology thing was really interesting (to me, anyway) and the maturation/sexual issues were also really interesting, but I felt like each issue wasn't explored as much as I would have liked because there were both. 

Though, to be honest, I have to agree with the posters who have been put off by the number of eco-nut stories lately.  And I am an eco-nut.  I think it's just that there have been too many, too close together.  That, and I really didn't like Smooth Talking for some reason I can't quite pin down.  Probably the "anthropomorphism=worthy of saving" angle.



dreamingmind

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Reply #39 on: January 25, 2007, 02:58:11 AM
I listened to this thinking it was SciFi, not Fantasy. It sounded like those manufactured dragons were just one luxury mode of transportation (as others have observed). That the dragons drank virgin blood had me thinking: Whoa! What do the genetic engineers make of that one? Weren't they able to isolate the genes responsible? Did replacing those genes eliminate some essential dragonishness? Or was it just too expensive to bother fixing it.

So while I was engaged with the characters, thinking "Yeah, just say you love her! It worked for me!" I was also thinking "How did the dragon manufacturers get this product to market? They must have a helluva lobby in Washington!" ... or maybe they're Chinese imports.

Needless to say, I really liked this Science Fiction story.

Don



slic

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Reply #40 on: January 26, 2007, 05:10:39 PM
Quote
That the dragons drank virgin blood had me thinking: Whoa! What do the genetic engineers make of that one? Weren't they able to isolate the genes responsible?
I made roughly the same point in the comments section.  It really took me out of the story because I kept thinking that this was ridiculous - it was just a contrivance of the author's hamfisted into the story



adir1

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Reply #41 on: February 06, 2007, 04:24:18 AM
Is it just me or is everyone over thinking this story? Genetically engineered or not, clearly, that wasn't the focus of the plot at any time.

For me, the point was very well presented and use of dragons added to vividness of the World created in this story. Story came across wonderfully and I am sure there were plenty other people who remembered their youth, with whatever behavior and silliness was there, for each.

I felt there was a call to review our morals and face our fears, and through all that, I was entertained also!



slic

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Reply #42 on: February 06, 2007, 04:01:17 PM
Quote
Is it just me or is everyone over thinking this story? Genetically engineered or not, clearly, that wasn't the focus of the plot at any time.
Quote
I felt there was a call to review our morals and face our fears, and through all that, I was entertained also!
Yes, I think that was the purpose/focus of the story, as well, but I don't see the critiques as overthinking, for me it is how the author hard a point (morals, etc) and said - I know I'll throw in some dragons so I can call it fantasy.



fiveyearwinter

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Reply #43 on: February 07, 2007, 01:19:31 PM
The preachiness doesn't bother me in the least - I just find most of the stories that happen to slant "left-ish" to be boring. I mean...the talking trees thing? It just didn't get to me. Actually, I didn't like "Joe Steele" when I first heard it either. It took me another listen, and the ending packed quite the punch.

To me, this was more about the struggles of young adulthood than it was about how awful/evil the auto-I mean dragon industry is. They were kind of secondary to the plot. It was more about his own issues, and his idiotic attempts to get into some girl's pants as a cure for them, than it was about how Ford's new dragon gets 6 miles to the gallon.

Speaking of - did anyone consider the fact that blood is unlikely to be sufficient to sustain a full-sized, cargo-bearing dragon? I mean, honestly - I know this is fiction, but let's not get out of hand here!



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Reply #44 on: October 19, 2010, 05:05:36 PM
This here is the end of an era.  My mad reign of threadomancy at Escape Artists is coming to an end, as I've commented on all the stories.  I'll be expecting my no-prize in the mail.   ;)

I can almost feel the collective sigh of relief from the forumites.  "Finally!" they say, "I can expect the most recent stories to be close to the top instead of buried under years-old stories!"

For better or for worse, I expect I'll meander over to the Drabblecast and give their story threads the same treatment (assuming that threadomancy is tolerated over there as it is here).

OK, on to the actual story:

*sigh*  I wish I could've liked the last risen thread, but I just didn't care for this one.  Too much a heavy handed message story, and the "green" message that I've seen so many bajillion times before it just gets more dull each time I hear it, even though I don't think it's incorrect.  The fantasy elements just seemed entirely tacked-on in order to give the message some window dressing to make it seem fresh. 

Quote
There is nothing in this story that says there are no cars or other transportation. It does in fact mention not only bike paths, but streets. If everyone got around by dragon, they wouldn't need the streets.

To me that wasn't so much an indication that there were cars in this world, only an indication that the author didn't think through the setting very thoroughly and hadn't thought about not needing roads in an airborne transport society.  If the author intended for regular cars to exist, one should have made an appearance, if only parked in a driveway somewhere.