Author Topic: EP125: End Game  (Read 38289 times)

Listener

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Reply #25 on: October 01, 2007, 01:01:21 PM
I liked this a lot better than Kress's last EP story.  For one thing, it was shorter and about 1000% easier (at least for me) to follow.  Short SF, I think, works well when it's only about a few people, not about a wide cast of characters.  This story really just had four:  Alan, Lucy, Jeff, and Karen.  And that's all it needed.

The ability to concentrate is both prized and derided -- if you can't concentrate, you can't get things done in one go; if you can concentrate, you lose the effect of the static.  The wisdom is in knowing when to concentrate to the exclusion of other things and when to allow the static to fuzz your brain.  Kind of like in "The Scar" (Mieville); Uther Doul needs to know when to turn on the Possible Sword, and when to just use it as a regular sword.  (The comparison makes sense to me.)

The reading was good, though I felt like Jeff's voice changed back and forth a little in the story.

Nice little window into the Gallaghers where "I did that thing she likes and I don't".  That more than anything proved that the two of them were having problems -- that he has to deign to do something she likes as some sort of reward?  I think the marriage might have been in trouble sooner than Kress made us aware of.  But then, good literature makes you think about that stuff.

It's like this quote I read -- I'll try to dig it up; it's on my other computer -- but it basically says writers shouldn't forget that their characters have lives, and after the 300 or 400 pages of the book are over, the reader must understand that the characters are going to go back to those lives, or that their lives will continue.

Finally, I really liked the ending, that Jeff was fighting against Alan's technique, and Kress did a really great job describing the static.

In short:  "It was good.  I liked it."

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Ocicat

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Reply #26 on: October 01, 2007, 06:28:26 PM
Wow, that was really good.  And... scary.

I've always been wary of using drugs to try to get people to think "the right way" - be it treating ADHD, or depression, or whatnot.  I recognize that it might be what many people need to function, and I don't hold it against them... it's just that looking at history so many great artwork and other accomplishments were done by people who today would be diagnosed and treated in an attempt to make them like everyone else.  In this story, someone is trying to take normal people and make their brains work in a less normal way - and that's not any better. 



Loz

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Reply #27 on: October 01, 2007, 06:37:58 PM
I always enjoy stories about attention spans as I



Loz

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Reply #28 on: October 01, 2007, 06:55:35 PM
OK, putting my Sensible Replying Trousers on...

That was a great story and, for me, a possible reason for why Pseudopod could be shut down, as Ms Kress's last two stories for Escape Pod have moved and scared me more than pretty much anything over there. As with 'Ej-Es' this story packs one hell of a punch in it's final minutes, not only as the narrator's wife loses interest in dealing with their marital problems due to the effect of the drug on her, but then the panic of the husband trying to make sure he's got enough static, almost as though he were... obsessed with seeking out distraction. Now that's real horror.



FNH

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Reply #29 on: October 01, 2007, 07:36:17 PM
An OK story.  A bit slow. 


Czhorat

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Reply #30 on: October 01, 2007, 09:25:15 PM

I've always been wary of using drugs to try to get people to think "the right way" - be it treating ADHD, or depression, or whatnot.  I recognize that it might be what many people need to function, and I don't hold it against them... it's just that looking at history so many great artwork and other accomplishments were done by people who today would be diagnosed and treated in an attempt to make them like everyone else.  In this story, someone is trying to take normal people and make their brains work in a less normal way - and that's not any better. 

I don't quite agree with this. In some ways I think it represents the stigma some people have about the treatment of mental illness; that the use of psychotropic drugs makes one less oneself by changing the mind. Some people have said quite the opposite; that treating depression or schizophrenia or ADHD has made them more able to be themselves and be creative and productive by removing barriers to clear thinking. In some ways I find it sad that treatment of the mind is viewed this way. One would never, for instance, lament that diabetics are being robbed of their individuality by being given insulin just so they could metabolize sugars "like everyone else."

I thought about this story today while I was listening to another podcast; this one about autism (An episode of Speaking of Faith -- I seem like an advertisement for public radio this week. You can find it at SpeakingOfFaith.org). The idea of intense focus on one train of thought while ignoring social interaction seems to be a common feature of autism. One interesting thing is that the very loving parents of an autistic boy who they consider to be happy and well adjusted still said, when asked, that they would consider it a disability. It doesn't mean that his thinking is fundamentally bad or wrong, but that he faces great challenges and needs certain support in dealing with them.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Thanks for listening.

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wakela

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Reply #31 on: October 01, 2007, 11:18:51 PM
Great story, great writing, great reading.

For those interested in the idea of total focus, I recommend Vernor Vinge's "A Deepness in the Sky."

It's always seemed to me that there should be some way of letting autistic people put their unique skills to use.



SFEley

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Reply #32 on: October 02, 2007, 05:11:17 AM
Pawn to King 4?? You don't play chess, do you, Steve?

I do play chess.  Badly, but with pleasure.  And yeah, I start with pawn to king four just like almost everyone else.

So what's your move?

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sirana

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Reply #33 on: October 02, 2007, 08:12:12 AM
Pawn to King 4?? You don't play chess, do you, Steve?

I do play chess.  Badly, but with pleasure.  And yeah, I start with pawn to king four just like almost everyone else.

So what's your move?
Nothing against the move...
Just didn't think any chessplayer still uses the old Descriptive chess notation (Pawn to King 4 or 1.P-K4) instead of the algebraic chess notation (1.e4). Guess I was wrong ;-)

I play d4 (P-Q4), by the way...



Chodon

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Reply #34 on: October 02, 2007, 11:46:40 AM

One thing I didn't get...how did everyone else get the "syndrome"?

Basic fluid transfer.  It was in the saliva.

The way I saw it the drug was slipped into the food during the dinner.  Why else would he have agreed to come to dinner? 

I thought everyone else got it was because it was provided to them.  They all seemed motivated individuals who would want to shut off the "static". 

I like the "viral" transmission idea better.  It's scarier.  I don't think it was well conveyed though.  This is my biggest gripe about the story.  Overall I have to agree with almost everyone else that this was a pretty decent story.  Some of the medical terminology was pretty exhaustive and confusing, but I think that was the point.  It was just a little frustrating to see such detail in  how the drug worked, but the transmission (or lack thereof) left totally blank.

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eytanz

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Reply #35 on: October 02, 2007, 01:26:52 PM
I like the "viral" transmission idea better.  It's scarier.  I don't think it was well conveyed though.  This is my biggest gripe about the story.  Overall I have to agree with almost everyone else that this was a pretty decent story.  Some of the medical terminology was pretty exhaustive and confusing, but I think that was the point.  It was just a little frustrating to see such detail in  how the drug worked, but the transmission (or lack thereof) left totally blank.

One additional reason for me to prefer thinking about the effect as a virus rather than a drug is the way Karen gets affected - only one contact makes her have all the symptoms. No chemical-based drug works that way - with anti-ADHD drugs, for instance, there are two types: the long term type, which you need to take for weeks before you notice a difference, and the short-acting type, which influences you right away and wears off within a few hours.

Viruses, on the other hand, affect you after a single contact, remain persistent, and can become more and more severe, since the whole nature of a virus is that what the initial infection does is turn the body into a virus-producing machine. Obviously, this is the way the single-mindedness affected Karen (and presumably Jeff) - she was exposed to it once, and it got worse and worse. And if the body can produce the virus on its own, then it's a small leap to make to deduce that it's possible to infect others.



Etherius

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Reply #36 on: October 02, 2007, 01:32:01 PM
As far as the story goes, I'm not quite sure I saw the scientist as a villain. Misguided, perhaps, but what he was trying to do wasn't really about him. I saw his unleashing a plague that could destroy much of what is special about the human race as more an unintended consequence to a kind of poorly informed altruism than anything I'd think of as villainy.

Villainy is as villainy does. Alan may have seen himself as a hero, but so do most villains. What makes them villainous is the way that they affect others as they pursue their goals, and what Alan does here will destroy humanity as surely as any Orbital Death Ray or nuclear armageddon.

Alan's crucial mistake, I think, is that he assumed that what was going on in his head was going on in everyone else's. Yes, everyone has "static" (to use Kress's term), but for most people that's a good thing, as the story shows. Alan seems to have been mentally ill from the very beginning; his static was stronger than other people's, and it combined with an equally unhealthy obsessive-compulsiveness. Or perhaps it was purely his OCD that drove him to try to eliminate his static, seeing it as an imperfection in the natural order of his mind.

The story was well-written, and it gripped me throughout, but by the time I reached the end I was hating it. It hits way, way too close to home for me. My deepest fear has always been contracting some form of mental illness that would disconnect me from either my capacity to reason or my capacity to love, both of which I cling to as essential, defining aspects of who I am. If I discovered that I had Alzheimer's I would probably dedicate the rest of my life to doing humanitarian work in war zones, just so that I'd have a better chance of getting killed before the disease took away what mattered to me. The fact that the main character loses his wife and is inevitably going to lose himself goes way beyond depressing and actually makes me angry. I don't dispute for a minute that the ending fits the story, but it's not the sort of story I can take any pleasure from listening to.

(Interestingly enough, I didn't have the same visceral reaction to the Mike Reznick story where the man gave himself the neurodegenerative illness that his wife was suffering from. Probably because, in that case, they didn't lose their ability to love, which is ultimately more important than the ability to reason.)

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gedion_ki

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Reply #37 on: October 02, 2007, 02:18:01 PM
I really enjoyed this story especially as an extreme example of the pitfalls of single mindedness. One thing I kept thinking of in the story was the concept of eliminating static and its similarities with some meditation practices. I have been a long time practitioner of meditation, though I admit inconsistent, which has led me to read a number of guides on meditation some of which address quieting the minds "static".

While the elimination of static or at least the management of static is a goal of some meditation practices I would think that even a Buddhist monk would consider this to be the opposite of being awake. Perhaps the real key to this concept is that the main character is fighting single mindedness as well, but thanks to his acute awareness of the problem he establishes a balance that most others do not?

The idea of actively maintaining balance in life could easily be applied to most peoples daily life as well I think.



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Reply #38 on: October 02, 2007, 03:35:58 PM
One thing I didn't get...how did everyone else get the "syndrome"?
Basic fluid transfer.  It was in the saliva.
The way I saw it the drug was slipped into the food during the dinner.  Why else would he have agreed to come to dinner? 

He mentioned looking at the mess Alan left on the table.  Alan had been a total slob with food falling out of his mouth.  He guessed that his wife got it from clesning up the mess.



VBurn

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Reply #39 on: October 02, 2007, 03:57:48 PM
I can really relate to eytanz adding static techniques.  I could never really focus on homework unless I had the TV on.  So I would watch Star Trek and let the homework fade into the background.  I never understood how, but I got it as correct as I could figure out how even devoting my full attention to it.  I also used to love to set out by the runways while all the FedEx planes were landing and read.  It was the best reading I ever done. I have never been tested but I might have ADHD. Back in the 70's and early 80's they called it hyper.  And the cure was to beat it out of a child, which worked well on my hyperness. 

The story was entertaining.  The reading, as always with Mr. Eley, really brought the story to life and engaged the listener. 



Chodon

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Reply #40 on: October 02, 2007, 04:23:35 PM
One thing I didn't get...how did everyone else get the "syndrome"?
Basic fluid transfer.  It was in the saliva.
The way I saw it the drug was slipped into the food during the dinner.  Why else would he have agreed to come to dinner? 

He mentioned looking at the mess Alan left on the table.  Alan had been a total slob with food falling out of his mouth.  He guessed that his wife got it from clesning up the mess.

Looking back and reading this forum I understand how it can be seen as a virus, but I don't think that's the only explanation. 

I wonder how one selects what item they are going to fixate on.  He didn't seem to have any paticular interest in running prior,  but once he was exposed he began to have an interest in running shoes.  That would be horrible to be obsessed with something you really weren't interested in.  It would be like me suddenly renting all the old episodes of "The Hills" or some such crap and watching them over and over.  It sounds like how I would describe hell...

Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.


Kaa

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Reply #41 on: October 02, 2007, 04:29:47 PM
  It sounds like how I would describe hell...

Maybe that's the point? :)

I have a sneaky feeling I'd be obsessing over either Babylon 5 or M*A*S*H if it happened to me.  Or playing some stupid computer game. *shudder*

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Ocicat

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Reply #42 on: October 02, 2007, 05:13:06 PM
I really enjoyed this story especially as an extreme example of the pitfalls of single mindedness.

Indeed.  After listening I spent awhile pondering the lives and happyness of people who are really dedicated to their One True Passion, vs. people like myself, who spread themselves on dozens of different interests and passtimes.  I sometimes think of what I could accomplish if I really narrowed my focus down, but of couse I think I'm happier the way I am.  And happyness is more important to me than accomplishments.  But to each his own... life has whatever meaning you give it, and for many their accomplishments are their sole reason for living.



gedion_ki

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Reply #43 on: October 02, 2007, 05:34:27 PM
I sometimes think of what I could accomplish if I really narrowed my focus down, but of couse I think I'm happier the way I am. 

Same here! I can't focus on only one thing and when I have really tried to do so I have been miserable and less capable of doing good work on that "One" thing. I for one need all the other interests in order to really do anything interesting in my most favorite activities. Perhaps a continuation of that story would be that many would become worse at doing a single thing simply because there was no other influences/interests in their life.



RKG

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Reply #44 on: October 02, 2007, 07:33:12 PM


Ah!  I think this explains why I can't stop thinking about Ej-Es...


Another fascinating and thought provoking idea well executed by Ms. Kress.  Thanks Steve!



rkg  101010


Loz

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Reply #45 on: October 02, 2007, 08:31:39 PM
I wonder how one selects what item they are going to fixate on.  He didn't seem to have any paticular interest in running prior,  but once he was exposed he began to have an interest in running shoes.  That would be horrible to be obsessed with something you really weren't interested in.

Well, while you can't help but become obsessed, it does seem that it does go along with your interests, Alan fixates on his science, the girl on chess, the wife on her flowers and the narrator on... not being obsessed on one thing, if we are supposed to assume that he has caught the disease by the end of the story (which I base on the fact that he's becoming more and more extreme in his day to day activities and not trying to do anything to help his wife). They don't seem particularly happy or unhappy, presumably because emotions would count as static.



Biscuit

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Reply #46 on: October 02, 2007, 09:49:07 PM
Hey! The first story that I've read before hearing it on EP (yeah, spot the magazine subscriber slight newb).

I'm feeling a bit "bashed over the head" by Nancy Kress at the moment - Just read "Fountain of Age" and "By Fools Like Me" in concurrent Asimovs.  "Nano Comes to Clifford Falls" was one of the first EPs I listened to, leaving an impact in my Media History. She seems to be everywhere.

I don't deny her talent in parable telling, but I find her multiple outlooks for humanity so grim. Sure, I'm a cynic - there are days I'm bashing my head on the desk at the stupidity of humanity - but I've always felt our science is way too advanced to let a "one sided event" not be balanced by the other side of the science equation. The same with our cultural, religious and societal resources. We're not about to allow ourselves to degenerate back to the state of Medieval Days/Primative Man just coz we screwed up our environment/economy.

Part of the reason I came to EP was to experience new SF&F. I don't deny that the "core" writers are good - they're in this little circle for a reason. But I'd like to hear more variety when it comes to writers. I honestly thought "Oh crikey, not another lecture on the failings of humanity from Ms Kress" when I saw this week's offering.

So yah...moar varyetee plzktnx.


Roney

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Reply #47 on: October 02, 2007, 09:51:20 PM
Just didn't think any chessplayer still uses the old Descriptive chess notation (Pawn to King 4 or 1.P-K4) instead of the algebraic chess notation (1.e4). Guess I was wrong ;-)

This is one of those things that I think will never die because it's become pervasive among the general public.  When I learned chess notation 20 years ago, the old-skool system was considered totally archaic.  I have never seen any chess player use anything other than algebraic notation.*  Yet I don't remember ever seeing algebraic notation used in fiction, because "Pawn to King 4" conveys chessness to the non-chessplaying population.

My theory: chess is used as a metaphor in fiction primarily by non-chessplayers as "mood music".  (This much makes sense.  Even a story written by chessplayers for a chessplaying audience can't make 32...g6 33 Nf6+! meaningful without a diagram.)  To them, the music sounds better with a less geeky notation.  But only non-players could romanticize chess as much.  These are the authors who portray two players locked in a titanic struggle... that immediately collapses with white checkmating black in a single move, that black didn't see coming.  Players never resign, and there's never a sense of a cornered player desperately searching for a way out of a protracted, crushing end-game.

To drag this comment back on-topic (before I sound too obsessional about chess misrepresentation), I thought the end-game metaphor worked well in this story.  The narrator knew what his end would be, he knew that it had been settled by a move that he had overlooked a long time ago, and he knew that all he had left were a few small gestures that would only drag things out a bit longer, but he wasn't the type to resign until all his options were gone.  That's a realistic chess end-game.

* Addendum: Wikipedia says that descriptive notation was still "sporadically used as recently as the 1980s or 1990s".  Hmm.



Kaa

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Reply #48 on: October 02, 2007, 10:13:48 PM
Part of the reason I came to EP was to experience new SF&F. I don't deny that the "core" writers are good - they're in this little circle for a reason. But I'd like to hear more variety when it comes to writers. I honestly thought "Oh crikey, not another lecture on the failings of humanity from Ms Kress" when I saw this week's offering.

So yah...moar varyetee plzktnx.

There are 125 stories and a bunch of flash, and only a small number are by Ms. Kress.  I think you won't have any problem finding a "varyetee" if you look.

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Biscuit

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Reply #49 on: October 02, 2007, 10:40:23 PM
You are correct.

EP is not my only source for fiction - as I said, there's a core select of writers who turn up in the major magazines all the time. When you start getting "bunches" of this core in every outlet you consume, is does tend to make the industry seem a little insular.

I'm going to go away and do a little counting/statistic. Be back soon.

*edit* ok, back with my counting :)

Since I started listening to EP in July 2006 there have been 43 individual writers featured.

Of them:
Mike Resnick has had 5 stories (28/9/06, 30/11/06, 8/2/07. 12/4/07, 14/6/07)
Nancy Kress has had 4 stories (12/10/06, 23/11/06, 26/7/07, 27/9/07)
Robert Silverberg has had 3 stories (28/12/06, 15/2/06, 5/7/07)
Pete Butler has had 3 stories (7/9/06, 3/5/07, 7/6/07)
Tobias Buckwell has had 3 stories (3/8/06, 31/8/06, 14/12/06)
Mur Lafferty, Jeffry DeRago, Tim Pratt, Stephen Deadman, Kevin J Anderson, David Barr Kirtley, James Trimarco, Kay Kenyon, Ramona Louise Wheeler, and Heather Lindsley have all had 2 stories.

Looking at the evidence, you think I'd be saying "There's too much Mike Resnick!" However, I have no problems being bashed over the head with optimism ;)

I don't mind multiple stories from same author, so long as they're spread out over a matter of months. 4-6 months ideal.

For example, Tobias Buckwell had two stories within the month of August 2006; Nancy Kress' stories have been within 5 weeks and 8 weeks of each other respectively; Kay Kenyon had two stories within the month of Feb 2007; Mike Resnick's stories this year have been within 2 months of each other.

Let me riterate - I am not bagging, bitching or bashing. I am merely making the point that EP combined with other outlets for these authors tend to make subjective "clumps". I'm not asking Steve to be in the pockets of other outlets to check who's publishing on a monthly basis, just that their stories are spread out more evenly, further apart (barring special months eg: Hugos etc).

Thanks for listening to me ramble.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 11:24:33 PM by Biscuit »