Author Topic: EP128: Union Dues - Send in the Clowns  (Read 27082 times)

Loz

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Reply #25 on: October 23, 2007, 05:42:35 PM
I think I prefer this one to the others in the series (not that I remember them that well). In those ones the heroes seemed to have such a grim time of things that in their place I'd probably go crazy. This story suggested that while life is unfair and people can be unprincipled bitches there is also the chance to look on the bright side of life.



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Reply #26 on: October 23, 2007, 10:01:51 PM
I almost didn't listen to this one given I haven't heard any of the others, but I took Steve Eley's word for it that it stood well on its own and was accepted as such and listened to it  anyway. I enjoyed it a lot. It would probably make more sense had I heard some of the others, but it did well not having had any backstory.

The end was creepy though, all evidence of Chrome's presence digitally removed--with implications that all memory of her presence could also be supplanted. *shiver*

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Reply #27 on: October 23, 2007, 10:39:01 PM
Kia ora (Hello from New Zealand)

Yay, another kiwi *wave* Hi Dave.

As for the story - Another universal acceptance of "loving it" here. I'm simply enamoured with the concept behind all the stories - Superheroes with real problems (not just emo angst, revenge or love sickness), personalities, and having to deal with being a modern corporation.

Not only is it an entertaining twist on the Super Hero genre, it also throws up a mirror to all the silliness that is our corporate/legal world.


Loz

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Reply #28 on: October 24, 2007, 05:47:29 AM
The end was creepy though, all evidence of Chrome's presence digitally removed--with implications that all memory of her presence could also be supplanted. *shiver*

No, they were just replacing the guns with walkie-talkies, because that was what was 'meant' to be there all along, right?



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Reply #29 on: October 24, 2007, 08:22:57 AM
The end was creepy though, all evidence of Chrome's presence digitally removed--with implications that all memory of her presence could also be supplanted. *shiver*

No, they were just replacing the guns with walkie-talkies, because that was what was 'meant' to be there all along, right?

And showing that our hero wasactually shot at first, because no real hero would shoot first.



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Reply #30 on: October 24, 2007, 05:25:48 PM
I do like the Union Dues universe, and really loved the only other story I've heard there ("Iron Bars and the Glass Jaw" - the only one played so far on EP Classic).  This story was okay, but I didn't enjoy it nearly as much.  A lot of that was because what the main character was being punished (the "circus") she wasn't really involved in.  And nothing much was made of that fact, she seemed to take personal responsiblity for the others actions.  And I never really got a good sense of who she was, or what her role on the team was... she's the newbie, but seems to be giving orders and taking responsiblity.  Heck, I don't even know what her powers are.  We're told she was born different, but wears a powered armor suit, and everything she does is based on the suit. 

Anyway, I think stuff like that kept me from getting into the story.  If it was my first exposure to Union Dues, I would have loved it just for all the concepts of the universe.  And maybe if I'd heard the others leading up to this I'd know enough to answer my questions.  As it was, the story left me a little cool. 

Don't get me wrong though, for all my complaints I still enjoyed it, just not as much as I was hoping to.



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Reply #31 on: October 24, 2007, 07:25:56 PM
well there aren't any supers ANYWHERE else because America is amazing and perfect and no one can challenge its amazingness.  *redneck voice* AMERICA!

hasnt it been mentioned that there are pyramids in other countries? or am i just imagining that?
i thought the Union was worldwide (or at least assumed so)

I'd like to hear my options, so I could weigh them, what do you say?
Five pounds?  Six pounds? Seven pounds?


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Reply #32 on: October 24, 2007, 07:29:38 PM
well there aren't any supers ANYWHERE else because America is amazing and perfect and no one can challenge its amazingness.  *redneck voice* AMERICA!

hasnt it been mentioned that there are pyramids in other countries? or am i just imagining that?
i thought the Union was worldwide (or at least assumed so)

There aren't Supers in any other countries in the UD Universe. The reason will be revealed in a future "exciting, action packed episode". However, the Union can work by special request, with the United Nations.

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Reply #33 on: October 24, 2007, 07:46:34 PM
I do like the Union Dues universe, and really loved the only other story I've heard there ("Iron Bars and the Glass Jaw" - the only one played so far on EP Classic).  This story was okay, but I didn't enjoy it nearly as much.  A lot of that was because what the main character was being punished (the "circus") she wasn't really involved in.  And nothing much was made of that fact, she seemed to take personal responsiblity for the others actions.  And I never really got a good sense of who she was, or what her role on the team was... she's the newbie, but seems to be giving orders and taking responsiblity.  Heck, I don't even know what her powers are.  We're told she was born different, but wears a powered armor suit, and everything she does is based on the suit. 

Anyway, I think stuff like that kept me from getting into the story.  If it was my first exposure to Union Dues, I would have loved it just for all the concepts of the universe.  And maybe if I'd heard the others leading up to this I'd know enough to answer my questions.  As it was, the story left me a little cool. 

Don't get me wrong though, for all my complaints I still enjoyed it, just not as much as I was hoping to.

It's been a while since last listening to a Union Dues story, but if I remember, there were "super intelligents" who were tacticians for their teams. It seems that Chrome performed this role, which would be why she was portrayed in a leadership position, and also why she had need for a powered suit, since her powers were mental in nature.



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Reply #34 on: October 24, 2007, 08:18:32 PM
well there aren't any supers ANYWHERE else because America is amazing and perfect and no one can challenge its amazingness.  *redneck voice* AMERICA!

hasnt it been mentioned that there are pyramids in other countries? or am i just imagining that?
i thought the Union was worldwide (or at least assumed so)

There aren't Supers in any other countries in the UD Universe. The reason will be revealed in a future "exciting, action packed episode". However, the Union can work by special request, with the United Nations.

That's just teasing.



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Reply #35 on: October 24, 2007, 08:30:33 PM

That's just teasing.

Gotta keep the interest up in case we go another 11 months between stories!

:)

Don't forget, "All That We Leave Behind" is coming soon! And I've just subbed another into the slush pile.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 07:00:12 AM by Russell Nash »

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Reply #36 on: October 25, 2007, 12:32:28 PM
Uuuuuuuunion Duuuuuuuues!
:) i loved it! I squeeled when i saw it downloading.
The only thing that really bothered me was the incredible stupidity of Chrome not being able to explain herself.  Comeon, the Union doesn't believe in a fair trial?  As corrupt and inefficient as it might be, the Union cannot be that evil.

Have you ever belonged to a teacher's union?  From my mom's and my friends' experiences, they exist solely to browbeat you into giving them your money, making you attend useless workshops, and acting as a really expensive insurance policy that sometimes helps you out if you get in trouble and spend a year being treated unfairly by your principal.  Maybe.

But yeah, I agree with you.

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Reply #37 on: October 25, 2007, 12:35:39 PM
I do like the Union Dues universe, and really loved the only other story I've heard there ("Iron Bars and the Glass Jaw" - the only one played so far on EP Classic).  This story was okay, but I didn't enjoy it nearly as much.  A lot of that was because what the main character was being punished (the "circus") she wasn't really involved in.  And nothing much was made of that fact, she seemed to take personal responsiblity for the others actions.  And I never really got a good sense of who she was, or what her role on the team was... she's the newbie, but seems to be giving orders and taking responsiblity.  Heck, I don't even know what her powers are.  We're told she was born different, but wears a powered armor suit, and everything she does is based on the suit. 

Anyway, I think stuff like that kept me from getting into the story.  If it was my first exposure to Union Dues, I would have loved it just for all the concepts of the universe.  And maybe if I'd heard the others leading up to this I'd know enough to answer my questions.  As it was, the story left me a little cool. 

Don't get me wrong though, for all my complaints I still enjoyed it, just not as much as I was hoping to.

It's been a while since last listening to a Union Dues story, but if I remember, there were "super intelligents" who were tacticians for their teams. It seems that Chrome performed this role, which would be why she was portrayed in a leadership position, and also why she had need for a powered suit, since her powers were mental in nature.

I was wondering about her power until I read this.  Not having read any previous UD stories, this was my first experience in the universe.  Now I know, and don't have to ask that question.

But, unless I missed mention of it while changing lanes on the way to work today and avoiding a runaway liquid propane tanker, to make this a fully stand-alone story a line dropped in to explain that would not have come amiss.

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Reply #38 on: October 25, 2007, 12:44:18 PM
I love a good superhero story (and am still miffed that The Incredibles wasn't nominated for Best Picture, instead of just Best Animated Film).  I liked this story for what it was and for what it represented, and for the whole "union charter" thing, which was both amusing and -- given that I work in a corporate environment -- distressingly familiar.

I wasn't terribly thrilled with the reading -- she nailed Chrome's voice, but didn't really do much for anyone else's except Kindred's.

As has been noted before, the way Megaton was dealt with vs the way Jenny was dealt with was a nice little truth about the corporate world.

Did anyone else notice that most of the supers had somewhat-daunting names?  The pilot has a skull mask and is supposed to be dark.  Kindred is, IMO, generally associated with vampires.  Megaton with bombs.  That sort of thing.  Maybe it's me.  I wonder if this is intentional, or if the author just thought they were cool names.  I'm fine with either.

Two things I wonder that may have been/may be explored:

* If Chrome and others are super-intelligents, why would they willingly allow themselves to have posthypnotic suggestion/compulsory phrases incorporated into their brains?
* How long until we have a story where scabs break the picket line because the Union has said "we won't save you people until you do X" and other supers say "I can't go along with that" -- what will happen?  (Jeff, feel free to take that idea for a future UD story.)  Or, along those lines, supers who are vigilantes that the Union has to round up?

(If those have been done, I'll listen to them when I listen to previous UD episodes.)

Anyway, overall, very enjoyable.  This is the first EP I actually finished at my desk after the drive to work, rather than waiting until I got in the car to go home later.

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jrderego

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Reply #39 on: October 25, 2007, 12:57:39 PM
Did anyone else notice that most of the supers had somewhat-daunting names?  The pilot has a skull mask and is supposed to be dark.  Kindred is, IMO, generally associated with vampires.  Megaton with bombs.  That sort of thing.  Maybe it's me.  I wonder if this is intentional, or if the author just thought they were cool names.  I'm fine with either.

Intentional. If I ever get Tabula Rasa done so that I like it, you'll get to see how the marketing department works.

Quote

Two things I wonder that may have been/may be explored:

* If Chrome and others are super-intelligents, why would they willingly allow themselves to have posthypnotic suggestion/compulsory phrases incorporated into their brains?


They don't have a choice.

Quote
* How long until we have a story where scabs break the picket line because the Union has said "we won't save you people until you do X" and other supers say "I can't go along with that" -- what will happen?  (Jeff, feel free to take that idea for a future UD story.)  Or, along those lines, supers who are vigilantes that the Union has to round up?

(If those have been done, I'll listen to them when I listen to previous UD episodes.)


The Union is really a union in name only. It operates much more like a conglomerated corporation. All dictates come from the top down hierarchy, the Luminaries, then The Tribunal (Each pyramid has a representative). Special Services, of which we have only met one character, Darksider, are like the internal police who work for the Luminaries and outside the bounds of the Tribunal.

The regular heroes, Team One and Team 2 in each Pyramid, as well as the third stringers or trainees, have virtually no say in how the organization is run or structured. I did at one time have a story that dealt with The Union chasing down a "freelancer" but that was destroyed, and rewritten into a better story called "Freedom with a Small F".

I do have an idea that will be explored, probably after the Team Shikaragaki stories (the second series of UD tales focusing on one traveling team, i.e. one story for each member), that will work out a storyline where some Union members walk off the job. I'll probably pull a bunch of stuff from the unpublished (and probably unpublishable) Union Dues novel that I wrote some years back to make this third set of stories.

We'll see :)

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Also, please buy my book - Escape Clause: A Union Dues Novel
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Reply #40 on: October 25, 2007, 06:15:34 PM
Quote
Two things I wonder that may have been/may be explored:

* If Chrome and others are super-intelligents, why would they willingly allow themselves to have posthypnotic suggestion/compulsory phrases incorporated into their brains?

They don't have a choice.

In EP062 The Baby and the Bathwater we find out that the union shows up as soon as powers are discovered.  Chrome and other super-intelligents were probably in the union long before they would have been able to fight the brainwashing.



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Reply #41 on: October 25, 2007, 06:35:41 PM
Quote
Two things I wonder that may have been/may be explored:

* If Chrome and others are super-intelligents, why would they willingly allow themselves to have posthypnotic suggestion/compulsory phrases incorporated into their brains?

They don't have a choice.

In EP062 The Baby and the Bathwater we find out that the union shows up as soon as powers are discovered.  Chrome and other super-intelligents were probably in the union long before they would have been able to fight the brainwashing.

Actually, the baby in The Baby and the Bathwater is an abberation. All of the other Supers (except for the Luminaries) developed in their early to late teens. They don't fight the imprinting because they can't fight the imprinting, it's part of their training process. If they don't train they get to live in Antartica until they die of old age or commit suicide.

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Also, please buy my book - Escape Clause: A Union Dues Novel
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Listener

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Reply #42 on: October 26, 2007, 05:53:47 PM
Quote
Two things I wonder that may have been/may be explored:

* If Chrome and others are super-intelligents, why would they willingly allow themselves to have posthypnotic suggestion/compulsory phrases incorporated into their brains?

They don't have a choice.

In EP062 The Baby and the Bathwater we find out that the union shows up as soon as powers are discovered.  Chrome and other super-intelligents were probably in the union long before they would have been able to fight the brainwashing.

Actually, the baby in The Baby and the Bathwater is an abberation. All of the other Supers (except for the Luminaries) developed in their early to late teens. They don't fight the imprinting because they can't fight the imprinting, it's part of their training process. If they don't train they get to live in Antartica until they die of old age or commit suicide.

That's pretty evil.  Is there any way to hide the development of your powers, or does the Union have a Molly Parker who can suss them out?

I think what I love about what I've read about the UD stories and what I heard in "Clowns" is that, though the Union are superheroes, they're really not all that nice as a group, even though Jenny, Megaton, and Plasmon (I think) seem worth having a beer with.  (Maybe not Jenny.  She reminds me of my crazy ex a little bit, who was also named Jennifer.)

(I kind of feel bad for making you go back over the backstory when I could just read or listen.  It's like when I'm watching Stargate or B5 with my dad; he's seen all of them, but I've seen like 10-20 eps total, and am coming in out of nowhere.  But, as a writer who loves to be asked about my characters and stories, I don't mind feeding that love in other people.)

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jrderego

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Reply #43 on: October 26, 2007, 06:17:11 PM

That's pretty evil.  Is there any way to hide the development of your powers, or does the Union have a Molly Parker who can suss them out?


You can, but then you can't really do anything heroic. If you hide your powers well enough that your parents, or school officials, or emergency room doctors, etc... don't drop a dime on you, then you are effectively neutralized. There are another couple of  facets to this too, but I can't say anything because it's the central crux of a story I hope to sell to Escape Pod, and part of "All That We Leave Behind" coming soon on Escape Pod.

 :)

And as for a Molly Parker character, no. The only types of supers are those we've been introduced to - super strong, agile, strategic thinker, mindreader, energy manipulator.

Quote

I think what I love about what I've read about the UD stories and what I heard in "Clowns" is that, though the Union are superheroes, they're really not all that nice as a group, even though Jenny, Megaton, and Plasmon (I think) seem worth having a beer with.  (Maybe not Jenny.  She reminds me of my crazy ex a little bit, who was also named Jennifer.)


They have the same sort of personal dynamics we all have. That's part of what I've tried to show in the stories. The Union characters have the same sort of problems, personal conflicts, and stuff as the Normals do. But it's in contrast to the way they are presented to Normal society, which in and of itself amplifies their problems.

Jenny Chrome, if you remember, didn't get fired. She was punished and reassigned. And as Darksider says, The Union doesn't close a door without opening a window. ;)

Quote


(I kind of feel bad for making you go back over the backstory when I could just read or listen.  It's like when I'm watching Stargate or B5 with my dad; he's seen all of them, but I've seen like 10-20 eps total, and am coming in out of nowhere.  But, as a writer who loves to be asked about my characters and stories, I don't mind feeding that love in other people.)

It's totally cool.

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Also, please buy my book - Escape Clause: A Union Dues Novel
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wakela

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Reply #44 on: November 13, 2007, 12:17:38 AM
Disclaimer: This was my first UD story.

Nice action.  I found myself listening to all the Union rules and regulations wishing that I could hear more about the fight I missed at the beginning.  But then you threw in the tanker trunk.  Thanks.

Except for Megaton, I didn't have a sense of what their powers were. 

Based on the story and this thread, the Union sounds pretty awful.  It sounds like the kind of organization superheros would try to destroy.  If I was born with a power and my choices were A: get arrested by the authorities, B: spend my life isolated from society, involuntarily "reeducated," and operate under byzantine and capricious laws that I have no control over, C: hide my power.  I think I would go with C, then A.   I like the idea of uncovering the flaws in the Union, but is it being run by Lex Luthor or Kim Jong Il?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the story and I look forward to more.  The writing was great.  I like the idea of consistent universe that the Escape Pod sometimes takes us to.   But I would like sense of the incentive that keeps the supers in the Union, because I'm starting to feel like the real heroes are in Antarctica. 



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Reply #45 on: November 14, 2007, 01:18:07 PM
Uuuuuuuunion Duuuuuuuues!
:) i loved it! I squeeled when i saw it downloading.
The only thing that really bothered me was the incredible stupidity of Chrome not being able to explain herself.  Comeon, the Union doesn't believe in a fair trial?  As corrupt and inefficient as it might be, the Union cannot be that evil.

Not to mention the fact that they discipline Chrome for quietly comforting a child on her lap while Megaton is apparently given a pass for creating the spectacle in the first place.

Megaton explains later that since his stuff sells well, he gets extra leeway.



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Reply #46 on: November 14, 2007, 02:25:24 PM
I've all but resigned from this forum, but I had to stick my head around the door to comment for this one!  Another Union Dues!  Brilliant!  I've followed Union Dues since the beginning and loved every one.  I've always had a soft spot for linked short story series (Foundation, Sherlock Holmes), which can be quite rare, so it's great to have another one to follow.

In all honesty my only critisism is that it took so long for this one to appear!

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« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 01:12:33 AM by Simon Painter »

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Reply #47 on: November 19, 2007, 12:29:39 AM
The Union reminds me a lot of the sham unions that used to exist in former soviet-bloc countries such as East Germany, which had the trappings of actual labor unions, but which were actually established by the government as a means for controlling and keeping tab on workers, writers, etc. 

Actually, I think that there are some interesting parallels between the attitudes of normal East Germans to their government in the '70's and '80's (in a very general sense supportive of their government, while feeling that certain particular policies were wrong-headed) and the relationship between some union members and the union itself.



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Reply #48 on: December 17, 2007, 03:21:56 AM
A right fine slacker I am. I drool all over the episode before I even listen to it, then never bother to check back in!

Ok. First off, AMAZING series! I wish I were in more of a position to get this in ink somehow.

Secondly; this wasn't my favorite story to date. There have been stronger and stronger hints in each episode about the manipulative nature of The Union, but each has had some good ol'e super heroics. This one was more plot than action, but it seemed to be necessary for showing the extent the Union goes to and how important the image is.
I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes. I suspect we'll get to see some drastic changes in the Union Dues universe as The Union looses too much power and the mental programming gets circumvented. But that's just idle speculation.

Thanks JR. Can't wait for the next one!

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Reply #49 on: December 17, 2007, 04:34:35 AM
A right fine slacker I am. I drool all over the episode before I even listen to it, then never bother to check back in!

Ok. First off, AMAZING series! I wish I were in more of a position to get this in ink somehow.

Secondly; this wasn't my favorite story to date. There have been stronger and stronger hints in each episode about the manipulative nature of The Union, but each has had some good ol'e super heroics. This one was more plot than action, but it seemed to be necessary for showing the extent the Union goes to and how important the image is.
I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes. I suspect we'll get to see some drastic changes in the Union Dues universe as The Union looses too much power and the mental programming gets circumvented. But that's just idle speculation.

Thanks JR. Can't wait for the next one!

The next one, "All That We Leave Behind" is my favorite of all the Union stories so far. I agonized over the ending for months, wrote it and rewrote it and rewrote it, but nothing I came up with in edits was as good as the ending it had in the first complete draft. I hope Steve reads it too, I had his voice in mind when I was writing it.

I can't wait until All That We Leave Behind airs and it should have different interpretations depending on where in the series you listen to it. If it's the first UD story someone listens too they'll come away with a completely different take on the story.

Just wait until I start submitting the second series - "The Saga of Tam Suji" (of that series) is the best story I've ever written.

"Happiness consists of getting enough sleep." Robert A. Heinlein
Also, please buy my book - Escape Clause: A Union Dues Novel
http://www.encpress.com/EC.html