EP134: Me and My Shadow

[Russell Nash]

EP134: Me and My Shadow

By Mike Resnick.
Read by Stephen Eley
First appeared in Unauthorized Autobiographies and Other Curiosities, 1984.

Of course, even if we had met before, they couldn’t recognize me now. I know. I’ve spent almost three years trying to find out who I was before I got Erased — but along with what they did to my brain, they gave me a new face and wiped my fingerprints clean. I’m a brand new man: two years, eleven months, and seventeen days old. I am (fanfare and trumpets, please!) William Jordan. Not a real catchy name, I’ll admit, but it’s the only one I’ve got these days.

I had another name once. They told me not to worry about it, that all my memories had been expunged and that I couldn’t dredge up a single fact no matter how hard I tried, not even if I took a little Sodium-P from a hypnotist, and after a few weeks I had to agree with them–which didn’t mean that I stopped trying.

Erasures never stop trying.

Rated R. Contains violent crime, violent imagery, and themes of violence.



Listen to this week’s Escape Pod!

[eytanz]

I really liked this story for the first half, and then it sort of lost me a bit. Not a huge amount - I think it still is a good story - but I just felt that it ended up short of what it could have been.

The problem for me was as follows: it started up by setting up an intriguing psychological drama. The narration by the erased person was intriguing; the possibility of having an unknown past, and having to live with the questions, was great. And the tension between living in the present and the shadows of the past was also very well done.

But then, the story made several missteps. First, the narrator displays a lot of concern with the physical skills associated with his past, but seems to click back into being a murderer with hardly any qualms at all. This is not the story of a man fighting against dark urges, it's the story of man, discovering his dark urges, going "huh, that's where that was", and easily adapting to it. That makes it pretty ineffectual as horror, since I can't emphasize with him anymore. In order for this sort of horror to be effective, I need to either be able to place myself in the position of the victim or of the perpetrator. Without empathy, all we are left with is the fact that some people do horrible things to other people. That's not horror, that's reality. I can learn as much from picking up any newspaper.

The second misstep in my opinion is the fact that the voice in the narrator's head goes from being an abstraction early on to being a full-fledged second personality, one that can hold discussions with the narrator, take over his body on request, and basically act as a fun little friend. This totally undermined any realism attached to the notion of erasure. I'm not arguing about whether the story is plausible. I'm perfectly happy to buy into the notion of mind erasures, and the fact that they can be imperfect, and that stuff can "leak" through. So far, so good. But the fact that the "leaking" can take the form of a fully functional personality with its own memory and independence is just outright silly. Again, the story started from one premise - struggling with a hidden memory, and ended up somewhere totally different. And worse, this seemed totally pointless. It felt like either the author was not giving me enough credit ("the reader will not understand that the old personality is coming through if it's not made into a character"), or that he was lazy.

And mostly, these flaws were a shame because they obscured much that was good about this story. The fact that the erasure was faulty was clear from the get-go, but the fact that the new personality combined with the old to make a worse person was very cool. It's a shame it was overshadowed by the silly multiple-personality thing. If the narrator wasn't as quick and happy to become a psycopath, and the depiction of the dual personalities coming together played subtly instead of as a Saturday morning cartoon, I would have really loved this story. Now I liked it, but I can't think about it without wishing it was simply better.

[Anarkey]

I like (and agree with) most of eytanz' commentary.  But if there is ONE single thing that would have made this story better for me (and by better I mean acceptable, really) it would have been giving a pass to the tired and tiresome cliché of hooker as convenient body count.

I have perhaps discovered a new show-stopper pet peeve.

[ajames]

I am very grateful for Escapepod featuring some of the more prominent authors in the field - as I am not widely read in this area, my first exposure to the stories of Mike, Corey Doctorow, Ron Silverberg, Nancy Kress, and others came through Escapepod.

As much as I enjoy stories by these authors, I would like to hear more stories from other authors.  This is not meant as a criticism, as I have no idea of the submissions and therefore the pool of stories and authors to choose from, but merely as a statement of preference.  All things being nearly equal, I'd prefer to hear a voice I haven't heard before [author's voice, not reader's - though variety is good there, too].  If things aren't nearly equal, then definitely I'd prefer the better story. 

[eytanz]

ajames - I am under the impression that Escape Pod posts all the stories that are sent to it that are of sufficient quality, regardless of who the author is. I'm not sure what your point is - are you implying you think Steve is rejecting other stories in favor of stories like this one by prominent authors? He has denied that on multiple occasions, and I think we have every reason to believe him. Or are you suggesting that he reject more stories by prominent authors in order to change the ratio?

I should point out that despite the fact that I feel this story is not as good as it could be, I also certainly think it deserved a slot out of its own merit, and not just because it has the name "Mike Resnik" attached to it. I think Steve would have been equally likely to accept it if it was submitted with any other name. I think that's true of almost all stories by prominent writers published recently (except possibly Silverberg, who I think might have gotten away with stories an unknown wouldn't have) - even though most of the stories by prominent authors happen to also be ones I liked less.

[ajames]

No, I am definitely not trying to second-guess Steve's selections or his selection process, nor am I implying that any story that has been featured on Escapepod was selected only because the author was well-known.

My point was intended to be this:  I am sure Steve takes many factors into consideration when determining the next story for Escapepod.  As a regular listener over the last year, and an Escapepod Classic listener, I have enjoyed the variety of topics, styles, authors, etc. that have been featured.  On more than one occasion, exposure to authors has led me to buy other works they have done.  Lately, there seems to be a little less variety in the authors, and I was trying to let Steve know that I value this variety.

That is all I intended to say.  And I fully realize I am only one listener, and others may feel differently.

[ajames]

And as I know that Mike Resnick does read these boards on occasion, I should probably add that my posts here are not meant to imply that I did not like this story, or his stories in general.  At least one of his stories ranks up among my Escapepod favorites. 

Rather, the reason for the posts has to do with a train of thought triggered by what I believe was an error in the initial posting of this story stating that the it was by Cory Doctorow [either that or my eyes were really playing tricks on me].  When I read that I thought - '2 stories by Cory Doctorow in a row??'  Not that that would be such a bad thing, but it did get me thinking about variety.  And thus the posts.

[Drakoniis]

This was very very different for a Mike Resnick story. Actually, it reminded me of a lot of the other, more widely-recognized dystopian works that have been created lately, specifically Ghost In the Shell and Minority Report. Ghost In the Shell, because of the idea of a "ghost" or an inner soul that doesn't change and is constant regardless of what body you exist in (think human consciousness, but more specific), and Minority Report because of the way the story broke a "flawless" system of some sort. Although that beltway... gave me images of The Jetsons (another, altogether too-optimistic societal system).

I genuinely liked it, and I want to hear more like this. Even though at first it seems to fall into the "mainstream" vein of sci-fi, its nice to hear something novel done with a genre. After all, the very reason this type of story is now common is because it directly applies to the immediate state of our current society. There will always be some people you cannot re-engineer, regardless of what kind of technology becomes available.

[contra]

A agree that it was similar to Minority Report in the world that it set up.  Similar to ours but with an extreme solution to crime.

I understand the critisisms that people made; the voice did jump from being a feeling to another person fairly quickly; and the main character did accept this was another person and not himself having created it a little too easily.

As for the person just accepting his dark urges, I think he accepted it becausde it was a part of himself he didn't know.  It was a part of his former self.  He was just happy to have a part of himself again.  The same way that the other eraser had enjoyed listening to certin music; probably had all that entire record collection to try anf get another responce like that inside them.

I liked this story; and I like the system failure making something worse.  I can see it happening that people down the system did not see how making someone a stickler for detail may prove to bite them in the ass later on. 

I also like that this question leaves you wondering where this punnishment came from; if it was to keep the prisons emptier, to try and give people a better life, opted into for press jail time, or if the main character confessed to everything, giving all details to the police in exchange for this happening to them.  A new witness protection program of sorts, for those already behind bars.

That idea entertains me, and will so for the 4 hours i'm about to be at work for.  I agree that it could have been a better story though; ie top 5 escape pods in my opinion and not the top 20 it probably now is.

[Czhorat]

I overall liked this one. I'm surprised and a touch disappointed that two listeners compared this to Minority Report. My first thought was that it felt like a nice homage to Bester's classic The Demolished Man. Mr. Resnick is enough a student of the genre for me to be confident that this was intentional.

I agree that the change from mild-mannered accountant to psycho killer was a bit fast, but it worked with a theme that who we are isn't easilly changed. There's also a nice bit of unintended consequences in that the very traits the brainwashers tried to enhance - stability and order - might have just created that much more dangerous a killer. Nice little story.

[eytanz]

As for the person just accepting his dark urges, I think he accepted it becausde it was a part of himself he didn't know.  It was a part of his former self.  He was just happy to have a part of himself again.  The same way that the other eraser had enjoyed listening to certin music; probably had all that entire record collection to try anf get another responce like that inside them.

I agree that the change from mild-mannered accountant to psycho killer was a bit fast, but it worked with a theme that who we are isn't easilly changed.

Just to clarify my position here, I agree that the quick transition to killer made perfect sense within the story. My point was that it did so at a cost, which was break the empathy I had with the character. The beginning of the story was effective because I thought I could relate to the narrator. Then, mid-story, it became clear to me that I was mistaken - I couldn't really relate to him. I was still interested by him, and I had an opinion of his actions, but it was no longer a shared experience - there's just no way I can imagine myself acting as he did. So the story lost the layer of "what would happen if I would have been in his position" - since clear, if that's the sort of person who ends up in that positon, I won't be. I felt that was a bit of a shame, since it's not like I'm a perfect human being, and it's not like I can't be made to empathize with someone losing the struggle with a darker side of their personality. I just can't emapthize with someone so readily willing to embrace them.

If this would have been a story about someone trying to avoid his darker side while being more and more drawn to it until finally succumbing (and then perhaps discovering he was happier that way), I don't think anything you said would have been invalidated, but at the same time it would have also worked better on other levels.

[eytanz]

And let me clarify something else: it's not particularly fair to compare a story to what might have been if the author made different choices. I know that, and I know that I have a tendency to do that and I'm trying to avoid that. But in this case, my complaint is not so much with what could have been, but rather about my reading experience - the story had me quite involved in the beginning and up to the murder, but mid-way I got a lot less interested. My main point above is not that this story didn't get my attention, but rather that it had it partway then lost it and I'm trying to explain why.

[Listener]

Ah, yes, another entry on ResnickPod... I mean Escape Pod.  (Sorry, it just seems like there's at least one Mike Resnick story a month.  Do no other talented SF authors submit to EP?)

I enjoyed the story, though I agree with eytanz that, on further review, Jordan did fall back into being a murderer pretty easily.  The idea of erasure and what happens when it goes wrong is pretty interesting.  SF like this, though, seems even more interesting when (ie) the erasure gets erased again and then has both the original memory and the memory of him/herself as an erasure the first time around.

I have two criticisms not yet pointed out:

1.  He starts out sort of talking to the reader ("you thought I wouldn't get back to that" or something, regarding the backfire), and then it more or less becomes an internal monologue, not an internal dialogue with someone beyond the fourth wall.  The choice to break the fourth wall in the beginning, in that case, seems discordant to me.

2.  Too much action began with "I did x, y, z" in a very straightforward manner -- I got up, put on my coat, went out, et al.  It didn't flow for me amid the rest of the prose.

Still, an enjoyable piece.

[DKT]

I don't know, Listener...We got a co-Resnick story in October and the last one before that was July.  So it's more like a Resnick story every other month.  But we also have gotten stories from Silverberg, Cory Doctorow, Nancy Kress, and Neil Asher this year, so I think it's fair to say there are prominent authors other than Resnick submitting their stories to Escape Pod. 

In regards to this story, I'm conflicted -- much for the same reasons Eytanz pointed out.  The set-up and the idea of erasures was fascinating.  But once the voice showed up and he started dialoguing with it, and not just dialoguing but bantering, I had a hard time.  Killing just became so esasy.  And maybe it's a difference of our age now and when the story was originally written and published, but karate chopping furniture didn't make me terrified, it made me want to laugh. 

So, not my favorite story by Mr. Resnick, but I'm looking forward to the next one. 

[mike-resnick]

Genesis: One day in 1983, Barry Malzberg mentioned that Bob Silverberg had come up
with the perfect answer to the Demolition process in Alfie Bester's THE DEMOLISHED MAN,
and that it was codified in Bob's novel, THE SECOND TRIP. I went out and got a copy, read
it that same night (not all novels were hernia-makers back then; this was barely 150 pages),
and told Barry the next day that it was a nice story, but that wasn't how Demolition would work
out or go wrong. So Barry challenged me to write my version, and this is it.

I was the GUest of Honor at ConFusion in January, 1984, and they wanted to put out a
chapbook of some of my stories, including one never-before-published one, and since I
hadn't yet submitted "Me and My Shadow" anywhere else, I gave it to the chapbook. I
don't think they could have printed 300 copies, but someone one of them made its way into
Jerry Pournelle's hands, and he included "Me and My Shadow" in SCIENCE FICTION YEARBOOK,
his best of the tear anthology. First of my stories ever to make a year's-end best-of book.

-- Mike

[Listener]

(not all novels were hernia-makers back then; this was barely 150 pages)

THANK YOU!!!  I'm so glad to hear a professional, well-known SF/F author say something like this.

Honestly, the amount of doorstops in SF/F has just become insane.  And they become trilogies, or tetralogies, or however many are in Wheel of Time.

I'm all for a doorstop that makes sense and is full of story, but just padding for the sake of padding?  *sigh*

(I know this is O/T but I HAD to say it.)

[gelee]

1.  He starts out sort of talking to the reader ("you thought I wouldn't get back to that" or something, regarding the backfire), and then it more or less becomes an internal monologue, not an internal dialogue with someone beyond the fourth wall.  The choice to break the fourth wall in the beginning, in that case, seems discordant to me.

I have to agree with Listener on this point.  I did notice a shift in the posture of the narration.
Aside from that, I'm really surprised at the feedback this story is drawing.  I haven't enjoyed anything this much on escape pod since...wow, since EP128.
The way I interpreted his conversation with the little voice was that the erasure was incomplete, and that his old self was still hiding somewhere deep in his mind.  The conversations were a construction of his own making.  It was a way for his new self and his old self to reconcile. 
I also didn't have a problem with Jordan accepting his urge to kill.  He was a killer.  He fell back in to his old ways easily because it was in his nature to be a killer.  I thought this was a "Can You Change the Nature of a Man?" story. 

[StudentoftheDarkArts]

All I can say is Wow...I think this story was meant for me....now I feel like I need to go out and kill someone!

[Hazimel]

I'll admit I am a Resnick fan.

There were two things that nagged at me in this story. First, Jordan never mentions picking his wallet back up after the mugging. That's no minor omission, given where the story goes. Second, he calls the doctor from his home, which even in 1980 would be traceable. Maybe I've watched too much CSI, but I think this story could use some of that. I realize that a murder procedural was not exactly the point, but still.

Anyway, it was fun. About half way through I stopped thinking about it as a Mike Resnick Story and just enjoyed it for its own sake. It was an interesting change from the other Resnick EP stories, by virtue of not having a heartstring-tugging end.

Thanks for the background info, Mike. And on behalf of my entire crew of SF geek friends from high school in the 80's, thanks for Santiago, one of our all-time favorites.

[Leon Kensington]

One of my favorite EP stories, as most of Resnick's are.

I especially liked how the story was weaved, I can't really explain it but the style...or the voice...or something...was just amazing!

[Anarkey]

Genesis: One day in 1983, Barry Malzberg mentioned that Bob Silverberg had come up
with the perfect answer to the Demolition process in Alfie Bester's THE DEMOLISHED MAN,
and that it was codified in Bob's novel, THE SECOND TRIP. I went out and got a copy, read
it that same night (not all novels were hernia-makers back then; this was barely 150 pages),
and told Barry the next day that it was a nice story, but that wasn't how Demolition would work
out or go wrong. So Barry challenged me to write my version, and this is it.

What a perfect example of Bujold's definition of genre, which (from memory) is "books in close conversation with one another".  While I didn't care for the story itself, the history behind the story was most interesting.  Thanks for sharing it with us, Mr. Resnick.

[Russell Nash]

I like (and agree with) most of eytanz' commentary.  But if there is ONE single thing that would have made this story better for me (and by better I mean acceptable, really) it would have been giving a pass to the tired and tiresome cliché of hooker as convenient body count.

I have perhaps discovered a new show-stopper pet peeve.

I think this is more of a truism than an overused plot device.  Street hookers by the nature of their job are putting themselves in great danger.  They go with whoever promises them money and then go to a secluded location.  Many large city police forces have an, "oh it's just another dead hooker" mentality when a hooker is murdered.  (It's part of the reason I support legalized prostitution, but let's not get into that conversation here.)  If you want to kill someone just for fun, killing a streetwalker is the safest choice.

(not all novels were hernia-makers back then; this was barely 150 pages)

THANK YOU!!!  I'm so glad to hear a professional, well-known SF/F author say something like this.

Honestly, the amount of doorstops in SF/F has just become insane.  And they become trilogies, or tetralogies, or however many are in Wheel of Time.

I'm all for a doorstop that makes sense and is full of story, but just padding for the sake of padding?  *sigh*

(I know this is O/T but I HAD to say it.)

Preach on!!  I hate having to read a 800 page book for a 200 page story.  I have too much stuff in my waiting to be read boxes.

[gelee]

I like (and agree with) most of eytanz' commentary.  But if there is ONE single thing that would have made this story better for me (and by better I mean acceptable, really) it would have been giving a pass to the tired and tiresome cliché of hooker as convenient body count.

I have perhaps discovered a new show-stopper pet peeve.

I think this is more of a truism than an overused plot device.  Street hookers by the nature of their job are putting themselves in great danger.  They go with whoever promises them money and then go to a secluded location.  Many large city police forces have an, "oh it's just another dead hooker" mentality when a hooker is murdered.  (It's part of the reason I support legalized prostitution, but let's not get into that conversation here.)  If you want to kill someone just for fun, killing a streetwalker is the safest choice.

I couldn't agree more.  It's a sad commentary on western society, but so many people view prostitutes as disposable non-humans.  This mindset seems to cross race, class, and political lines, at least in the States.

[Anarkey]

I like (and agree with) most of eytanz' commentary.  But if there is ONE single thing that would have made this story better for me (and by better I mean acceptable, really) it would have been giving a pass to the tired and tiresome cliché of hooker as convenient body count.

I have perhaps discovered a new show-stopper pet peeve.

I think this is more of a truism than an overused plot device.  Street hookers by the nature of their job are putting themselves in great danger.  They go with whoever promises them money and then go to a secluded location.  Many large city police forces have an, "oh it's just another dead hooker" mentality when a hooker is murdered.  (It's part of the reason I support legalized prostitution, but let's not get into that conversation here.)  If you want to kill someone just for fun, killing a streetwalker is the safest choice.

That's a false dichotomy.  Things can be both truisms and clichés.  In fact, I would say that nine times out of ten a cliché arises from a perceived truism and serves to reinforce it.  That doesn't mean it's not lazy writing.  I think a gift that science fiction can (at its best) give us is the examination of our preconceived notions.  By having this character appear unexamined, for the sole purpose of being murdered, the chance to explore a whole host of held notions about sex workers, women, and balances of power slipped by.  Meanwhile, the reinforcement of the stereotype that women in stories should be plot devices, without any inherent value or message of their own, was cheerfully underlined, emphasized by the absence of any other significant women characters to countermand the cheap shot.

Women aren't the only people engaged in sex work, nor are they the most vulnerable nor the "safest" to dispose of.

Ehhh.  Easy choices.  Lazy writing.

[Russell Nash]

I like (and agree with) most of eytanz' commentary.  But if there is ONE single thing that would have made this story better for me (and by better I mean acceptable, really) it would have been giving a pass to the tired and tiresome cliché of hooker as convenient body count.

I have perhaps discovered a new show-stopper pet peeve.

I think this is more of a truism than an overused plot device.  Street hookers by the nature of their job are putting themselves in great danger.  They go with whoever promises them money and then go to a secluded location.  Many large city police forces have an, "oh it's just another dead hooker" mentality when a hooker is murdered.  (It's part of the reason I support legalized prostitution, but let's not get into that conversation here.)  If you want to kill someone just for fun, killing a streetwalker is the safest choice.

That's a false dichotomy.  Things can be both truisms and clichés.  In fact, I would say that nine times out of ten a cliché arises from a perceived truism and serves to reinforce it.  That doesn't mean it's not lazy writing.  I think a gift that science fiction can (at its best) give us is the examination of our preconceived notions.  By having this character appear unexamined, for the sole purpose of being murdered, the chance to explore a whole host of held notions about sex workers, women, and balances of power slipped by.  Meanwhile, the reinforcement of the stereotype that women in stories should be plot devices, without any inherent value or message of their own, was cheerfully underlined, emphasized by the absence of any other significant women characters to countermand the cheap shot.

Women aren't the only people engaged in sex work, nor are they the most vulnerable nor the "safest" to dispose of.

Ehhh.  Easy choices.  Lazy writing.

We have a short story with limited space.  We want to show quickly that our main charactor  is develoing a taste for blood.  Give me an example that can be written in as few words that I can't make the same arguments about.

Prostitutes put themselves out in danger without obvious defenses and they are overwhelmingly female.  I don't like it.  It just is.

[gelee]

Moved to other thread...

[DDog]

Thought it was pretty good. A little surprised when he just reverts--no explanation of why he gets to be the magic erasure and get his urges back. Does he just start killing people again or does he go to the other erasures and teach them how to find themselves again? Interesting premise, enjoyable listen; story could have been so much more.

[SFEley]

That's a false dichotomy.  Things can be both truisms and clichés.  In fact, I would say that nine times out of ten a cliché arises from a perceived truism and serves to reinforce it.  That doesn't mean it's not lazy writing.  I think a gift that science fiction can (at its best) give us is the examination of our preconceived notions.  By having this character appear unexamined, for the sole purpose of being murdered, the chance to explore a whole host of held notions about sex workers, women, and balances of power slipped by.

Alternate theory: my interpretation of the story (which I haven't tried to confirm with Mike Resnick or anyone else) was that killing the hooker wasn't random at all.  The voice said it "felt right" to kill her because he had a reason to wander in the direction he'd been going and find her.  The most obvious possibility is that she was the girlfriend who ratted him out.

That doesn't make the killing any less atrocious, of course.  But it does remove it a step or two from the unexamined cliché of your interpretation, and it would be consistent with the next killing that "felt right" -- completing the hit he'd been contracted for.  Just a thought.

[eytanz]

Alternate theory: my interpretation of the story (which I haven't tried to confirm with Mike Resnick or anyone else) was that killing the hooker wasn't random at all.  The voice said it "felt right" to kill her because he had a reason to wander in the direction he'd been going and find her.  The most obvious possibility is that she was the girlfriend who ratted him out.

That doesn't make the killing any less atrocious, of course.  But it does remove it a step or two from the unexamined cliché of your interpretation, and it would be consistent with the next killing that "felt right" -- completing the hit he'd been contracted for.  Just a thought.

Well, it replaces the cliche with a very uncomfortable coincidence - that on the night he decided to experiment with murder, he just bumps into his old girlfriend. Of course, it's possible he was subconciously seeking her, but that's going a lot further than what the story gives us - plus, it's not like he knocks on her door, but she approaches him. That means his subconcious mind would not only need to know she was a prostitute (which means she would have had to be a prostitute when they were together), but that he knew where she lived and that she is likely to approach random strangers.

Personally, I think I'd rather accept that the story treats prostitutes as good candidates for victimization (which may be a cliche, but one well grounded in reality) than a really convenient coincidence or a really convluated explanation.

[sayeth]

I think my favorite part of this story was the voice of the narrator. I don't mean Steve's audio interpretation, which I thought was great too, but the style of the character telling the story. He's got such a wry attitude toward his situation. That's what made me identify with his character so that when he started going wrong, I really felt the horror.

[gelee]

Alternate theory: my interpretation of the story (which I haven't tried to confirm with Mike Resnick or anyone else) was that killing the hooker wasn't random at all.  The voice said it "felt right" to kill her because he had a reason to wander in the direction he'd been going and find her.  The most obvious possibility is that she was the girlfriend who ratted him out.

That doesn't make the killing any less atrocious, of course.  But it does remove it a step or two from the unexamined cliché of your interpretation, and it would be consistent with the next killing that "felt right" -- completing the hit he'd been contracted for.  Just a thought.

Well, it replaces the cliche with a very uncomfortable coincidence - that on the night he decided to experiment with murder, he just bumps into his old girlfriend. Of course, it's possible he was subconciously seeking her, but that's going a lot further than what the story gives us - plus, it's not like he knocks on her door, but she approaches him. That means his subconcious mind would not only need to know she was a prostitute (which means she would have had to be a prostitute when they were together), but that he knew where she lived and that she is likely to approach random strangers.

Personally, I think I'd rather accept that the story treats prostitutes as good candidates for victimization (which may be a cliche, but one well grounded in reality) than a really convenient coincidence or a really convluated explanation.

I have to agree with eytanz.  I thought that the prostitute might be his old girlfreind, but that was just a bit too much of a stretch.
At any rate, I don't have a problem with the "cliche" of the murdered prostitute.  Making your serial killer villain a male isn't cliche - most serial killers are males.

[Drakona]

How about: the prostitute reminded him of his ratting girlfriend, thus triggering something in him/them..?

I must say, as someone who's partner is studying to become an accountant... The remark about attention to detail made me first smile with recognition, then frown with slight concern... An accountant psychopath killer would make a very scary badguy indeed

[FamilyGuy]

When accountants go bad...

...the other side of the ledger.

 

[Russell Nash]

I must say, as someone who's partner is studying to become an accountant... The remark about attention to detail made me first smile with recognition, then frown with slight concern... An accountant psychopath killer would make a very scary badguy indeed

They go around talking about tax deductions and boring people to death.  Sounds like a truly horrible villian.

[Russell Nash]

I think the discussion of Motivation & Punishment was starting to take over, so I moved it here.

[Anarkey]

That doesn't make the killing any less atrocious, of course.  But it does remove it a step or two from the unexamined cliché of your interpretation, and it would be consistent with the next killing that "felt right" -- completing the hit he'd been contracted for.  Just a thought.

I'm with eytanz.  The "random hooker was really the woman who turned him in" interpretation is a little too neat for my tastes, though it's not counter-textual.  However, I think you misunderstand my problem with the whole scenario.  It's not the horrifying and atrocious (as you would call it) murder of the hooker that bugs me.  The murder is neither horrifying nor atrocious because the author has worked really hard to make the prostitute a cardboard cutout, a not real person.  She's just the silhouette at the other end of the firing range.  There's nothing there to be horrified by.  She's a plot point on the way to a clever ending.  That bothers me.  Using the shorthand of the hooker cliché is just emblematic of how little value the author saw in the character.  Characters should be people, not stereotypes.  And, for my personal tastes, women characters should be people, because frankly, I'm kinda done with fiction where the woman is just the love/sex interest or the body count.  Been there, done that.  Met my quota.  This is a purely personal sticking point, I'm well aware, and that's why I classed it as a pet peeve.

[Anarkey]

We have a short story with limited space.  We want to show quickly that our main charactor  is develoing a taste for blood.  Give me an example that can be written in as few words that I can't make the same arguments about.

I hesitated to reply to this because I don't want to fall into what eytanz described way upthread as making the story better, or more the story I wish I'd heard, or do a good parts transformation on it.  However, just for starters, Russell, I think there were about 150-200 words too many of boring telephone conversation with the doctor, and I'd definitely have cut some of that for two sentences that might have made our hooker a person instead of a cliché.  It doesn't take a lot of space to put in telling details.  I also didn't need to be told quite so repeatedly nor in such detail about the (wooo coool!) moving sidewalks.  I'm also not sure why we couldn't have had him kill the first guy he saw, and have him call the doctor after that, on a real emergency, as opposed to a "i'm just having bad thoughts" emergency.  Hell, even the computer had more personality than the hooker, and did we need that?

Obviously everyone given the same topic would have written the story differently, and in fact, at least three people did, as Mr. Resnick told us.  Maybe Silverberg's or Bester's versions would have worked better for me than this one did.  I had a basic problem with this story being about the nature of humanity and self and then throwing out paper thin depictions of humans to illustrate that.

[Simon]

That doesn't make the killing any less atrocious, of course.  But it does remove it a step or two from the unexamined cliché of your interpretation, and it would be consistent with the next killing that "felt right" -- completing the hit he'd been contracted for.  Just a thought.

I'm with eytanz.  The "random hooker was really the woman who turned him in" interpretation is a little too neat for my tastes, though it's not counter-textual.  However, I think you misunderstand my problem with the whole scenario.  It's not the horrifying and atrocious (as you would call it) murder of the hooker that bugs me.  The murder is neither horrifying nor atrocious because the author has worked really hard to make the prostitute a cardboard cutout, a not real person.  She's just the silhouette at the other end of the firing range.  There's nothing there to be horrified by.  She's a plot point on the way to a clever ending.  That bothers me.  Using the shorthand of the hooker cliché is just emblematic of how little value the author saw in the character.  Characters should be people, not stereotypes.  And, for my personal tastes, women characters should be people, because frankly, I'm kinda done with fiction where the woman is just the love/sex interest or the body count.  Been there, done that.  Met my quota.  This is a purely personal sticking point, I'm well aware, and that's why I classed it as a pet peeve.

I just wanted to respond to this, because as an Old School SF fan, I really value these cardboard cutouts.  Don't get me wrong, I understand the rage that can be brought by sexist stereotypes and cliche's, but I tend to look at older SF as being a more innocent form.  Writting for a small, specific audience in the pulps, where the Author knew their audience well enough that they could pull out shorthand for any issue they didn't think was what the game is about.  Now this one is an old Resnick story, not 1950's old but still from an earlier age of SF...  Back in the old Heinlein stories (like All You Zombies as a classic example of magnificent storytelling dripping with gender stereotypes) I always give the benefit of the doubt,  each time he pulls out a piece of writerly shorthand like this, I took it as "you, my readers, aren't interested in this... Let's skip on to the time travel!".  And I appreciated that, the competition - the game - of SF wasn't about writing a perfectly structured example of the 20th century American short. The game was to write a stripped down world, an action packed tale, and smack through to a twist in less than 20 pages.  Cardboard cutout cliche's allowed you to add plot/emotional elements rapidly, without feeling the need to develop them.

Now, apart from Heinlein, Bester was the absolute KING of this technique (so, i'll have Gully rape a schoolteacher to build some dramatic tension, but then we'll move onto the explosive material that detonates when you think at it).  So, when I read that Resnick was "channelling Bester" in this story I thought - AHA!

That's not to say I still think this is an acceptable way to build tension, and I can see why it annoys the hell out of feminists... But I think it is a key part of SF's stripped down heritage... And I respect Resnick for writing what appears to be a stylistic tribute to the one of best SF writers there ever was.

[DDog]

Fascinating parallel to this story in this week's Pseudopod story "Memories of the Knacker's Yard." If taking your memories of being a cold-blooded killer away doesn't make you a decent human being, will giving a decent human being a cold-blooded killer's memories turn them into one?

[Russell Nash]

I think the discussion of Motivation & Punishment was starting to take over, so I moved it here.

This discussion has brought up a point that, while not directly connected to the story, triggered a thought.  What if (and I'm not saying Mr.Resnik had this in mind at all) our main charactor wasn't a serial murderer?  Let's say he was grade A evil, but not murderous.  A serial rapists of nine year old girls or something almost as bad.  This is what gets him erased. 

He spends all of his time trying to figure out why he was erased, then he gets attacked and some kind of self-preservation response kicks in.  He figures he must have been a murderer.  He starts working on this idea so hard he believes it has to be true.  Throw in a little schizophrenia and, bam, now we have a serial murderer.

[gelee]

I think the discussion of Motivation & Punishment was starting to take over, so I moved it here.

This discussion has brought up a point that, while not directly connected to the story, triggered a thought.  What if (and I'm not saying Mr.Resnik had this in mind at all) our main charactor wasn't a serial murderer?  Let's say he was grade A evil, but not murderous.  A serial rapists of nine year old girls or something almost as bad.  This is what gets him erased. 

He spends all of his time trying to figure out why he was erased, then he gets attacked and some kind of self-preservation response kicks in.  He figures he must have been a murderer.  He starts working on this idea so hard he believes it has to be true.  Throw in a little schizophrenia and, bam, now we have a serial murderer.

OK, so then you have a "Don't Tamper With Nature" story.  Interesting implication, and it reveals another possible layer to the story. 

[DKT]

This discussion has brought up a point that, while not directly connected to the story, triggered a thought.  What if (and I'm not saying Mr.Resnik had this in mind at all) our main charactor wasn't a serial murderer?  Let's say he was grade A evil, but not murderous.  A serial rapists of nine year old girls or something almost as bad.  This is what gets him erased. 

He spends all of his time trying to figure out why he was erased, then he gets attacked and some kind of self-preservation response kicks in.  He figures he must have been a murderer.  He starts working on this idea so hard he believes it has to be true.  Throw in a little schizophrenia and, bam, now we have a serial murderer.

Or if it was the story of the con who stole a pizza and was erased for his 3rd strike, only in his search to figure out why he was erased, he becomes more of a criminal than he started out.  (I don't remember if you can be erased for theft in this story or not.)

[Russell Nash]

This discussion has brought up a point that, while not directly connected to the story, triggered a thought.  What if (and I'm not saying Mr.Resnik had this in mind at all) our main charactor wasn't a serial murderer?  Let's say he was grade A evil, but not murderous.  A serial rapists of nine year old girls or something almost as bad.  This is what gets him erased. 

He spends all of his time trying to figure out why he was erased, then he gets attacked and some kind of self-preservation response kicks in.  He figures he must have been a murderer.  He starts working on this idea so hard he believes it has to be true.  Throw in a little schizophrenia and, bam, now we have a serial murderer.

Or if it was the story of the con who stole a pizza and was erased for his 3rd strike, only in his search to figure out why he was erased, he becomes more of a criminal than he started out.  (I don't remember if you can be erased for theft in this story or not.)

That's kind of what I was going for except I figured you had to be really bad to get erased.  I was trying to come up with something that was an erasable offense, but not murder.  I was also thinking about an arsonist who thought the building was empty, but there was really seven teenagers drinking beer.  That probably would have been a better example.

[DDog]

Do you mean that A main character in this sort of story could have had that real backstory? Or the particular main character that we did have? Because the doctor explains that he killed X people for X reason--unless the doctor is thinking of someone else, in which case...

[Russell Nash]

Do you mean that A main character in this sort of story could have had that real backstory? Or the particular main character that we did have? Because the doctor explains that he killed X people for X reason--unless the doctor is thinking of someone else, in which case...

No it was jujst a what if kind of thing.  Just playing with the concept.

[wakela]

This discussion has brought up a point that, while not directly connected to the story, triggered a thought.  What if (and I'm not saying Mr.Resnik had this in mind at all) our main charactor wasn't a serial murderer?  Let's say he was grade A evil, but not murderous.  A serial rapists of nine year old girls or something almost as bad.  This is what gets him erased. 

He spends all of his time trying to figure out why he was erased, then he gets attacked and some kind of self-preservation response kicks in.  He figures he must have been a murderer.  He starts working on this idea so hard he believes it has to be true.  Throw in a little schizophrenia and, bam, now we have a serial murderer.

Or if it was the story of the con who stole a pizza and was erased for his 3rd strike, only in his search to figure out why he was erased, he becomes more of a criminal than he started out.  (I don't remember if you can be erased for theft in this story or not.)

That's kind of what I was going for except I figured you had to be really bad to get erased.  I was trying to come up with something that was an erasable offense, but not murder.  I was also thinking about an arsonist who thought the building was empty, but there was really seven teenagers drinking beer.  That probably would have been a better example.

I think that's a cool idea, Russel.  If you have to be an evil bastard wouldn't you rather be a bad ass ninja assassin than a pedophile or a blundering arsonist?  And since he is an erasure, being an evil bastard is the only hard fact he knows about himself.  As long as this guy is making up a past for himself he could have fabricated the doctor, too.  The doctor serves the function of verifying that our guy is in fact a bad ass ninja assassin, then he is conveniently removed.

[wakela]

If I had known this story had been written more than 20 years ago, I would have listened to it in a different frame of mind.  The idea of a guy who has been erased, and has clues that he is a bad ass, and wants to find out who he is, but is afraid of what he might discover has been done a lot.  And Me and My Shadow doesn't add much to the sub genre.  But now that I see the Me and My Shadow was written more than 20 years ago.  If I had read it 20 years ago I probably would have found it more interesting. 

Would it be possible to mention in the intro when the story was written?

I had my suspicions that this was an older story with the moving sidewalks, rampant New York crime, and computers that are smart enough to make witty conversation, but still say "negative" instead of "no."  But the mention of the Iraq conflict threw me off.   

[Russell Nash]

This discussion has brought up a point that, while not directly connected to the story, triggered a thought.  What if (and I'm not saying Mr.Resnik had this in mind at all) our main charactor wasn't a serial murderer?  Let's say he was grade A evil, but not murderous.  A serial rapists of nine year old girls or something almost as bad.  This is what gets him erased. 

He spends all of his time trying to figure out why he was erased, then he gets attacked and some kind of self-preservation response kicks in.  He figures he must have been a murderer.  He starts working on this idea so hard he believes it has to be true.  Throw in a little schizophrenia and, bam, now we have a serial murderer.

Or if it was the story of the con who stole a pizza and was erased for his 3rd strike, only in his search to figure out why he was erased, he becomes more of a criminal than he started out.  (I don't remember if you can be erased for theft in this story or not.)

That's kind of what I was going for except I figured you had to be really bad to get erased.  I was trying to come up with something that was an erasable offense, but not murder.  I was also thinking about an arsonist who thought the building was empty, but there was really seven teenagers drinking beer.  That probably would have been a better example.

I think that's a cool idea, Russel.  If you have to be an evil bastard wouldn't you rather be a bad ass ninja assassin than a pedophile or a blundering arsonist?  And since he is an erasure, being an evil bastard is the only hard fact he knows about himself.  As long as this guy is making up a past for himself he could have fabricated the doctor, too.  The doctor serves the function of verifying that our guy is in fact a bad ass ninja assassin, then he is conveniently removed.

Oh!  I didn't even think of the doctor as being a delusion.  Maybe this is what Resnick had in mind.  Probably not.

[qwints]

And since he is an erasure, being an evil bastard is the only hard fact he knows about himself.

I hadn't thought of this, but now that you say it I see this idea as the central theme of the story. It's about the consequences of that fact.

[Ocicat]

Would it be possible to mention in the intro when the story was written?

I've often wanted this.  I think the original publication date is relevant to my enjoyment of the stories.  Especially when they're "near future" SF, and that future is now upon us or past.  Or if the setting is "now" but that unspecified "now" is the 70's. 

And yes, I'm going to view the writing with a different eye it was a new idea at the time, even if it's been done to death today...

[eytanz]

Would it be possible to mention in the intro when the story was written?

I've often wanted this.  I think the original publication date is relevant to my enjoyment of the stories.  Especially when they're "near future" SF, and that future is now upon us or past.  Or if the setting is "now" but that unspecified "now" is the 70's. 

And yes, I'm going to view the writing with a different eye it was a new idea at the time, even if it's been done to death today...

For me, that's the reason why I prefer not to get the publication date. I prefer my reading to be unadultrated by factors external to the story, including the context it was written in. That's not always true for all the literature I read, but it is true when my primary goal is entertainment, which is in turn the reason I listen to EP.

I much prefer to discover when the story was written after I've done reading it, so that that information plays a role in my thinking about the story, but not in my initial reaction to it.

[Thaurismunths]

What I want to know is how does he know he's been erased?
Why didn't they just plant some fake memory of a life he never had and send him on his way?

[Listener]

What I want to know is how does he know he's been erased?
Why didn't they just plant some fake memory of a life he never had and send him on his way?

"Total Recall"?

[qwints]

 I prefer my reading to be unadultrated by factors external to the story, including the context it was written in. That's not always true for all the literature I read, but it is true when my primary goal is entertainment, which is in turn the reason I listen to EP.

I much prefer to discover when the story was written after I've done reading it, so that that information plays a role in my thinking about the story, but not in my initial reaction to it.

I agree. I think our appreciation of literary works should not require looking outside the writing beyond the extent necessary to understand allusions to outside sources and events.

[Ocicat]

I think our appreciation of literary works should not require looking outside the writing beyond the extent necessary to understand allusions to outside sources and events.

Interesting.  I didn't expect that folks would be against mentioning the story publication date beforehand.  But so that this side discussion doesn't take over, I've created another discussion thread (and poll) over here.

[Thaurismunths]

What I want to know is how does he know he's been erased?
Why didn't they just plant some fake memory of a life he never had and send him on his way?

"Total Recall"?

Yep. Good point.

[Planish]

That's kind of what I was going for except I figured you had to be really bad to get erased.  I was trying to come up with something that was an erasable offense, but not murder.  I was also thinking about an arsonist who thought the building was empty, but there was really seven teenagers drinking beer.  That probably would have been a better example.

Up until the point where he turns out to suck in the use of guns, I thought that he was going to turn out to have been a Professional Good Guy (like a SWAT member) who accidentally killed a bus full of kids or something in the line of duty, and was so remorseful that he volunteered to be erased and made unrecognisable.

Cardboard cutout cliche's allowed you to add plot/emotional elements rapidly, without feeling the need to develop them.

I sort of agree with that. I like to think of them as "basic vocubulary" items that do not require definitions as soon as they are introduced. Like the Star Trek OS "red shirts", they serve the purpose of getting the story moving along. Spend too much time on fleshing out a character (especially one that is doomed on the next page anyway) and they risk becoming a kind of "Checkov's Gun", or else an unintended bit of misdirection.

[birdless]

Sorry to dig this one up from the grave, but I was just surfing around some of the older episode comment threads and was surprised that on this one no one suggested that the voice that was speaking to him was literally a separate entity (e.g. demon possession). To me, that was the "intentionally unanswered question" of the story. Was the voice a part of his subconscious or something completely separate? Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there while we're waiting for EP 158.

[eytanz]

Sorry to dig this one up from the grave, but I was just surfing around some of the older episode comment threads and was surprised that on this one no one suggested that the voice that was speaking to him was literally a separate entity (e.g. demon possession). To me, that was the "intentionally unanswered question" of the story. Was the voice a part of his subconscious or something completely separate? Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there while we're waiting for EP 158.

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine that that is an intentional reading. A possible reading, certainly, and possibly an interesting one (not sure I'm convinced of that, since it implies a genre shift and a quite cliche'd one at that), but I don't think it's very likely to have been intended by Resnick. And Resnick's own comment earlier on this thread, while not conclusive, certainly does not sound like that was on his mind.

[birdless]

Sorry to dig this one up from the grave, but I was just surfing around some of the older episode comment threads and was surprised that on this one no one suggested that the voice that was speaking to him was literally a separate entity (e.g. demon possession). To me, that was the "intentionally unanswered question" of the story. Was the voice a part of his subconscious or something completely separate? Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there while we're waiting for EP 158.

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine that that is an intentional reading. A possible reading, certainly, and possibly an interesting one (not sure I'm convinced of that, since it implies a genre shift and a quite cliche'd one at that), but I don't think it's very likely to have been intended by Resnick. And Resnick's own comment earlier on this thread, while not conclusive, certainly does not sound like that was on his mind.

Unless, I'm reading you wrong, I'm not sure how that makes it a genre shift—it could be an extraterrestrial intelligence as easily as a metaphysical/spiritual one. The demon possession was just an example. And, while admittedly my knowledge may be limited compared to some others here, do you really think that concept is cliche'd? Done before, sure (maybe reminiscent of Fallen?), but, I dunno... seems like "cliche'd" may be a little strong. But as much as I love speculative fiction, like I said earlier: I'm not the most well-read in the genre. I feel relatively certain you speak with more authority here than I. Personally, though, the possession take on it made the story a little more creepy.

I'm not familiar with The Demolished Man, so any commentary that may have lent this story was missed by me.

<edit>
I also thought it may have been alluding to the soul: like this guy was just so evil is was rooted in his soul, and no measure of brainwashing would scour that out. Which, again, is a creepy thought to me.

[DKT]

Well, initially, it sounds like it would become more of a Pseudopod episode than an Escape Pod episode.  I think the "demonic" element makes it more supernatural horror.  But even with an alien intelligence instead of a demonic one, I think it'd become more horror.  Body Snatchers, Puppet Masters, are more extremes, but I'm sure there's been episodes of the X-Files that have done similar things. 

[birdless]

Ah, okay. I guess I can see that. I still haven't started listening to PP... I really need to do that.

[eytanz]

Sorry to dig this one up from the grave, but I was just surfing around some of the older episode comment threads and was surprised that on this one no one suggested that the voice that was speaking to him was literally a separate entity (e.g. demon possession). To me, that was the "intentionally unanswered question" of the story. Was the voice a part of his subconscious or something completely separate? Anyway, just thought I'd throw it out there while we're waiting for EP 158.

I'm sorry, but I can't imagine that that is an intentional reading. A possible reading, certainly, and possibly an interesting one (not sure I'm convinced of that, since it implies a genre shift and a quite cliche'd one at that), but I don't think it's very likely to have been intended by Resnick. And Resnick's own comment earlier on this thread, while not conclusive, certainly does not sound like that was on his mind.

Unless, I'm reading you wrong, I'm not sure how that makes it a genre shift—it could be an extraterrestrial intelligence as easily as a metaphysical/spiritual one. The demon possession was just an example.

Genre shift was probably the wrong term to use. What I tried to say was that it would shift from a story about self-discovery to a story about succumbing to/dealing with external forces. That's a very different story.

Note that I do think it's a valid interpretation. I just think that, for all that this isn't a particularly good story, the "external force" interpretation suggests that it's a worse story.

And, while admittedly my knowledge may be limited compared to some others here, do you really think that concept is cliche'd? Done before, sure (maybe reminiscent of Fallen?), but, I dunno... seems like "cliche'd" may be a little strong.

Demonic possession stories are one of the oldest stories in Western and Eastern civilisation. Making it extra-terrestial is only meaningful if that influences the story; otherwise, it's just a minor flavor change (for a good example of a boring use of this trope, see last week's drabblecast (or maybe it was two weeks ago)). I'm certainly not saying that it can't be done in an interesting fashion, but "the voice in my head was an external malefactor" is not an interesting story in my opinion, and - in the context of this particular story - I can't see what more this interpretation would add.

But note that I'm simply showing my biases here - my objection that this is unlikely to be the author's intention was objective criticism, whether I was right or wrong, but the rest is just subjective criticism, and YMMV.

[birdless]

Oh cool. I see what you mean now.

[Unblinking]

Very cool idea, and the first half was really awesome.  The protagonist who doesn't know what he's done, but does know that he's done something terrible is an interesting dilemma.  In that situation, I'm not sure that I'd want to know what I'd done.  The whole point of the erasure procedure is to allow you to have a 2nd chance, making you a new person.  If I'd known I'd done something terrible, and my mind had already been erased, I think I'd just go ahead and give that a try.  Maybe I'd relapse, but at least I wouldn't seek out my own downfall.

But my interest level dropped substantially in the 2nd half.  Suddenly he goes from a concerned citizen frightened of his past, and then when he discovers a bit of his past he says "Killing sure is fun.  More please!"  Since the only thing that had leaked through up to that point was muscle memory stuff, to have the whole personality and large portions of memory suddenly come through didn't make sense within the context of the story.  And then he's able to call up his alternate person's skills on command, when before it had been an adrenaline/muscle memory thing--that was just too much.

What it comes down to was that the first half featured a protagonist who was conflicted, interesting, someone I could try to understand.  In the second half the protagonist was just a serial killer caricature.