Author Topic: The Golden Compass (spoilers hidden)  (Read 17707 times)

Listener

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on: December 10, 2007, 06:00:14 PM
I went into this film with the best hopes possible -- the previews said it looked really cool, and the effects seemed like they'd be nice.  Having read and enjoyed the book (I think it was the best of the trilogy), I thought I would enjoy the film.

My short review:  if you've read the book, the ending of the movie will piss you off.  Here's why:

SPOILER
The film ends with the battle at Bolvangar, then with Lyra, Roger, Lee, Serafina, and Iorek in the balloon.  The book ends with Lord Asriel crossing to another world and IIRC Lyra following him.
END SPOILER

The effects were pretty good, except for some of the longer shots of Iorek.  Fans of steampunk will enjoy the setting and vehicles.

The casting was pretty good (though I think they could've found someone better than Nicole Kidman for Mrs Coulter).  The girl who played Lyra was overall well-chosen, except some of her lines were stilted.  And I LOVED the way they did the daemons, especially the transformations of Pantalaimon.  Also, the scene at Bolvangar where...

SPOILER
...Lyra and Pan are nearly separated...
END SPOILER

...was great, though I think it would've been even stronger had Billy Costa's fate in the book been the same in the movie.

I'd read some criticism that the religious angle was left out of the film.  If I hadn't been looking for it, I wouldn't have noticed it, but because the crazies made such a fuss, people will actively connect the Magisterium with the Church.  Maybe they'll learn their lesson.

As a book adapted to a film, everything seemed way too easy; even Harry Potter didn't have the wheels greased QUITE this much.

So, overall... if you loved the book, don't see the film in theaters.  You will be angry.  But if you haven't read the book, watch the movie and then go buy it.

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eytanz

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Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 07:26:59 PM
I went into this film with the best hopes possible -- the previews said it looked really cool, and the effects seemed like they'd be nice.  Having read and enjoyed the book (I think it was the best of the trilogy), I thought I would enjoy the film.

My short review:  if you've read the book, the ending of the movie will piss you off.  Here's why:

SPOILER
The film ends with the battle at Bolvangar, then with Lyra, Roger, Lee, Serafina, and Iorek in the balloon.  The book ends with Lord Asriel crossing to another world and IIRC Lyra following him.
END SPOILER

The fact that they moved the ending forward didn't actually piss me off. It surprised me when I saw it, but I understood the decision.

What bothered me more is that, because they had to stick so much plot into 2 hours, nearly all the character development was gone. This was especially clear in the beginning; it improves somewhat towards the end.

One thing I noticed - which there was no way around for the movie - is that the second half of the movie is a lot less visually interesting than the first half. The first half happens in an alternate magical steampunk England, and there are a lot of cool small details all over the place that make the setting feel very rich (just as the story did). The second half of the movie occurs in frozen icy wastes, which all look more or less the same.



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Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 08:53:51 PM
Quote from: eytanz
What bothered me more is that, because they had to stick so much plot into 2 hours, nearly all the character development was gone. This was especially clear in the beginning; it improves somewhat towards the end.
That must be why I felt the pace of the film was all off. Given I don't think I've read the book since fifth grade, but I had a completely different idea of the pacing. The movie just seemed to kind of get to everywhere it needed to be while your back was turned. That may be a different experience for people who haven't read the book, but I kind of felt like the characters I knew and loved were just getting cameos in their own story. The book isn't that long though, so I don't know how so much more information was packed into the book; unlike the Harry Potter books which are impossibly huge, the book didn't have much padding.

I actually laughed at the ending. I figured they had cut the last chapter or so off the book so they wouldn't be left with a movie waiting for the sequel that never happened, if the first one didn't do very well. I reminded the people I saw it with of the irony of the final lines.

I also felt that the film misrepresented the alethiometer readings. The effect was cool but it didn't match up with the way I remember the readings. The alethiometer in the book was more like a really sophisticated deck of tarot cards that Lyra intuitively understood without much training, not a psychic TV.

I was kind of annoyed that there are so many instances of dæmons talking to other humans. They managed to indicate that touching someone else's dæmon "isn't done," but dæmons talking was made clear in the book as an extremely rare event, occurring only in times of great need or great trust. (Possibly witches' dæmons are more likely to be free with their speech, I don't really remember.)

But all in all I felt it was a fairly good show. All the machinery and city scenery was gorgeous, and I was really amazed by the dæmons and the bears, etc. (except for a couple of filler shots). And it was a lot better than I was afraid it would be when I first heard there was going to be a movie.

I don't know why there is such an uproar over the "religious overtones"--they are really not apparent in the first book unless you've already read the other two or you've been forewarned by an email campaign, and I think they were even less obvious in the movie than the book.

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Reply #3 on: December 10, 2007, 10:02:21 PM
Possible spoilers ahead!

As I've said elsewhere, I really enjoyed the first book, and that coming from a (very firm, some would say fanatical) Christian perspective.  It is clear in the first book "The Church" in Lyra's world is evil, but that didn't bother me at all: Organizations calling themselves "The Church" in our world have often been evil.  I didn't take that as an attack on Christianity of even religion in general, just that this particular group is bad and also happens to use the cross as its symbol.

It does strike me as odd that the Church in Pullman's fantasy uses the cross as its symbol, yet there is no reference anywhere to Christ.  He attempts to criticize Christianity but omits its central figure.

Of course, as the stories progress, the term "religious overtones" becomes silly.  The Amber Spyglass doesn't have overtones.  It is about religion.  Unlike, say, LOTR, the primary purpose of Dark Materials is not to create a compelling universe, but rather to criticize specific elements in ours.  The fantasy is a vehicle to that end more than an end in itself.

I think that to a large degree explains why the quality of the stories declines so drastically over the course of the trilogy.  In Compass the religious aspects are mere overtones and the focus is on story, characters and world-building, and it's really cool.  As we work up to Spyglass, the focus shifts completely until the integrity of the story is all but sacrificed to make room for Pullman's religious message.  For the sake of that message Pullman makes the narrative gaffe (among many, many others) of setting up God as the villain and then revealing that God doesn't actually exist.  It's like if Frodo and Sam has gotten all the way to Mount Doom only to be told that, sorry, there actually isn't any Sauron; he's just a myth the head orc made up to intimidate people, and that Ring you've been lugging around doesn't actually do anything.

I'm frankly surprised that New Line picked up Dark Materials, considering the sloppy mess that the end of the story degenerates into.  I'm betting they'll loose money on it, all told.  (They won't be getting any of mine for it, at least.)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 10:17:18 PM by Mr. Tweedy »

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Opabinia

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Reply #4 on: December 11, 2007, 11:17:39 PM
Quote
As we work up to Spyglass, the focus shifts completely until the integrity of the story is all but sacrificed to make room for Pullman's religious message.

I would rather this not be a topic for discussion on this board. If you want to move it to Gallimaufry, that's cool.

Feel free to concentrate on other aspects of the movie here.



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Reply #5 on: December 11, 2007, 11:18:02 PM
Argh, that was palimpsest.

Silly... being logged in... on husband's computer.



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Reply #6 on: December 12, 2007, 04:27:09 PM
Quote
As we work up to Spyglass, the focus shifts completely until the integrity of the story is all but sacrificed to make room for Pullman's religious message.

I would rather this not be a topic for discussion on this board. If you want to move it to Gallimaufry, that's cool.

Feel free to concentrate on other aspects of the movie here.

Got to say I agree with the lady here.  Let's keep this thread to talking about the movie.



eytanz

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Reply #7 on: December 12, 2007, 06:58:42 PM
Er, ok, before this derails into a thread of moderators agreeing with each other, let me point out one minor strange thing I observed in the movie:

In the scene on the icy bridge, as it starts collapsing under Lyra's weight, Iorek shouts at her to run. We see Lyra turn her head in worry, and -- cut to Lyra climbing safely off the other side of the bridge. That was pretty weird - true, "collapsing bridge" is a really clich'ed trope, but if you're going to have it, why not actually show it?



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Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 09:01:28 PM
   I quite liked it, although I suspect I was mentally filly in the bits of the book I liked that weren't filmed (I actually maintain it would be a great TV show, giving you the chance to build up the world more, fold in the gradual realisation that Mrs Coulter's not quite what she seems etc...That being said I thought Zodiac would make a great TV show). 
   Still, the Daemon effects were well handled, Nicole Kidman was actually pretty good and the bears were fantastic.  It's just a shame that by trying to please everyone, the studio appears to have pleased no one.



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Reply #9 on: December 19, 2007, 04:52:43 PM
People have been gloating about the lackluster box office returns, but including international ticket sales it's doing OK.  It's already broken $150 million.



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Reply #10 on: December 19, 2007, 05:10:40 PM
People have been gloating about the lackluster box office returns, but including international ticket sales it's doing OK.  It's already broken $150 million.

   That's good to know.  I would like to see them take a crack at the next two, so hopefully that'll come to pass.



Russell Nash

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Reply #11 on: December 19, 2007, 05:26:06 PM
People have been gloating about the lackluster box office returns, but including international ticket sales it's doing OK.  It's already broken $150 million.

   That's good to know.  I would like to see them take a crack at the next two, so hopefully that'll come to pass.

It used to be international sales didn't mean much.  I even remember when they made a big thing out of it when international sales could equal domestic US sales.  Now international sales are three to five times domestic sales.



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Reply #12 on: December 19, 2007, 06:32:54 PM
Do you think that has to do with how much less the dollar is compared to the pound and the Euro?


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Reply #13 on: December 19, 2007, 06:48:32 PM
Do you think that has to do with how much less the dollar is compared to the pound and the Euro?

How much do they pay for a theater ticket over there?

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eytanz

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Reply #14 on: December 19, 2007, 06:59:04 PM
I paid 7 pounds to see Golden Compass.



Listener

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Reply #15 on: December 19, 2007, 07:48:13 PM
I paid 7 pounds to see Golden Compass.

A little over $14 USD.

I paid $9 per ticket.  I thought that was a lot.

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Russell Nash

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Reply #16 on: December 19, 2007, 08:06:13 PM
The weakness of the dollar doesn't hurt.  If the dollar was where it belongs the international gross for this movie would be around 95 million instead of 140 million.  But since a lot of the cost for the film went overseas, the movie cost more in dollars than it should have anyway.

I pay 8€.  That's $12 now.  Historical low would have been $7.  Should be just about $8.



Heradel

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Reply #17 on: December 19, 2007, 10:15:31 PM
One of these days I'm going to have to work out how to get paid in pounds while living here.

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Russell Nash

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Reply #18 on: December 19, 2007, 10:35:04 PM
One of these days I'm going to have to work out how to get paid in pounds while living here.

Not the best of ideas.  Before Thatcher the pound was as high as $6. IIRC



Roney

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Reply #19 on: December 29, 2007, 07:45:43 PM
Philip Pullman briefly discusses what's left out of a screen adaptation in today's Guardian.



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Reply #20 on: March 29, 2008, 09:05:44 PM
The movie disappointed me. Sure, it was pretty, but it seemed sort of empty and flat compared to the original. A lot of the good padding was taken out, while all the possible cliches were left in, including Lyra's defiant tomboyness. I actually liked how that was handled in the book, but in the movie it came off as being too cute. And it bothers me that the producers plan to take out all the atheistic bits out of the later movies so that the fundementalist Christians don't get pissed off. Which is pathetic, considering the fact that a main facet of the third book is that God is not a nice guy.

One thing I did like: the way the compass looked. It matched my vision of it exactly, though the sparkly clockwork visions were sort of cheesy.


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Reply #21 on: March 29, 2008, 09:45:21 PM
The movie disappointed me. Sure, it was pretty, but it seemed sort of empty and flat compared to the original. A lot of the good padding was taken out, while all the possible cliches were left in, including Lyra's defiant tomboyness. I actually liked how that was handled in the book, but in the movie it came off as being too cute. And it bothers me that the producers plan to take out all the atheistic bits out of the later movies so that the fundementalist Christians don't get pissed off.
Who said there would be any later movies?  All I've seen indicates that there will be no film trilogy.

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Reply #22 on: April 02, 2008, 01:03:03 AM
Who said there would be any later movies?  All I've seen indicates that there will be no film trilogy.

I got the impression that there would be, because I'd heard that they were taking the atheistic bits out, and the first book wasn't all that theological, at least not as I remember.


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Reply #23 on: April 02, 2008, 12:51:43 PM
Who said there would be any later movies?  All I've seen indicates that there will be no film trilogy.

I got the impression that there would be, because I'd heard that they were taking the atheistic bits out, and the first book wasn't all that theological, at least not as I remember.

Yabbut it's also contingent on the first film doing well at the box office and turning a nice profit, and it's my understanding that it didn't.

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Reply #24 on: April 02, 2008, 01:22:14 PM
Yabbut it's also contingent on the first film doing well at the box office and turning a nice profit, and it's my understanding that it didn't.

From what I remember it had a pretty bad US domestic box office, but a lot better numbers overseas.

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