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Question: Which movie do you like best?  (Voting closed: January 08, 2008, 03:40:05 PM)
Raiders of the Lost Ark - 10 (50%)
The Terminator - 2 (10%)
Return of the Jedi - 6 (30%)
Night of the Living Dead - 1 (5%)
The Usual Suspects - 1 (5%)
Total Voters: 19

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Author Topic: Film Poll XIII: The Next Generation  (Read 6617 times)
Ocicat
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« on: January 02, 2008, 03:40:05 PM »

Indy went on to his second win last week.  This time we've got several interesting challengers, including another movie featuring Harrison Ford, as the Star Wars saga finally makes an appearance in the random draw...
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 06:01:01 PM by Ocicat » Logged
Russell Nash
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2008, 04:07:36 PM »

This one requires some thought.  It should be a fight between Raiders and Terminator, but Usual Suspects is calling to me.
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eytanz
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2008, 04:31:34 PM »

Easier choice than last week - several movies I really like, but none on this list that can compete with Raiders.
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DKT
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2008, 05:11:02 PM »

Tough choice between Raiders and Usual Suspects...really, I think it depends on the day I vote...
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Darwinist
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2008, 08:57:05 PM »

Ewoks, blah!  I'm going with Ahhh-nold.
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Holden
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 10:35:35 AM »

The Usual Suspects? Shouldn't this be on the worst film poll?

Other than Usual Suspects, this was a strong group. I would consider all four of the other movies as must-see for anyone. I voted Night of the Living Dead but probably could have voted for any other one of the four and felt good about it.
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DKT
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 11:42:52 AM »

The Usual Suspects? Shouldn't this be on the worst film poll?

Other than Usual Suspects, this was a strong group. I would consider all four of the other movies as must-see for anyone. I voted Night of the Living Dead but probably could have voted for any other one of the four and felt good about it.

Woah woah woah.  What do you not like about the Usual Suspects?  That's one of my favorite crime movies ever!  Not that I'm taking that personal or anything  Wink
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Holden
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2008, 01:06:37 PM »

It was hard to follow. It's deceptive because it gives you very little information to process so you're left with the feeling that you don't understand the movie, but really it's because there is very little in the movie to understand. The 'big surprise' ending had little surprise value for me and solved nothing. I sat and watched the entire movie, even though I wasn't enjoying it, and the ending was like the sad deflating of a dying baloon.

It's a good feeling to know that I never have to watch that movie again.

For great crime movies, I recommend Goodfellas and The Maltese Falcon.
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DKT
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2008, 01:52:22 PM »

Seen both of those.  Like them both.  Like Usual Suspects more.  (The only other crime movie I like as much is LA Confidential, I tihnk).  YMMV, I guess Smiley

Edited for spelling
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 04:00:05 PM by DKT » Logged

Russell Nash
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2008, 02:43:03 PM »

DKT, I'm with you on this one.  I was hooked the entire movie.  I was as clueless as the charactors and was blown away when we got to see Kaiser Sousai.  It's really cool to see again and see the clues I missed before.
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eytanz
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2008, 03:37:21 PM »

Holden - I don't think your opinion of Usual Suspects is particularly fair. It's not a perfect movie (certainly, I don't have any particular desire to re-watch it a third time), but your criticism just isn't true - it gives you a lot of information. And all the clues are in place. In fact, I guessed who Kayser Soze was (or more accurately, which of the characters committed the murder the movie starts with) after the first five minutes of my first viewing (and the friend who saw it with me will attest to that), based on one particular shot that lasts a few seconds but is significant if you know what to look for (I was lucky).
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Tango Alpha Delta
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2008, 07:31:54 PM »

Interesting.... I contemplated the relative merits, considered the venue, took the long view, and....   before reading the thread... opted to bust la cerise de Usual Suspects!
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Heradel
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2008, 07:45:09 PM »

I believe the pertinent quote is this:

Quote from: Kevin Smith, Clerks
Randal: So they build another Death Star, right?
Dante: Yeah.
Randal: Now the first one they built was completed and fully operational before the Rebels destroyed it.
Dante: Luke blew it up. Give credit where it's due.
Randal:And the second one was still being built when they blew it up.
Dante: Compliments of Lando Calrissian.
Randal: Something just never sat right with me the second time they destroyed it. I could never put my finger on it-something just wasn't right.
Dante: And you figured it out?
Randal: Well, the thing is, the first Death Star was manned by the Imperial army-storm troopers, dignitaries- the only people onboard were Imperials.
Dante: Basically.
Randal: So when they blew it up, no prob. Evil is punished.
Dante: And the second time around...?
Randal: The second time around, it wasn't even finished yet. They were still under construction.
Dante: So?
Randal: A construction job of that magnitude would require a helluva lot more manpower than the Imperial army had to offer. I'll bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers.
Dante: Not just Imperials, is what you're getting at.
Randal: Exactly. In order to get it built quickly and quietly they'd hire anybody who could do the job. Do you think the average storm trooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing and white uniforms.
Dante: All right, so even if independent contractors are working on the Death Star, why are you uneasy with its destruction?
Randal: All those innocent contractors hired to do a job were killed- casualties of a war they had nothing to do with. (notices Dante's confusion) All right, look-you're a roofer, and some juicy government contract comes your way; you got the wife and kids and the two-story in suburbia-this is a government contract, which means all sorts of benefits. All of a sudden these left-wing militants blast you with lasers and wipe out everyone within a three-mile radius. You didn't ask for that. You have no personal politics. You're just trying to scrape out a living.
(The Blue-Collar Man (Thomas Burke) joins them.)
Blue-Collar Man: Excuse me. I don't mean to interrupt, but what were you talking about?
Randal: The ending of Return of the Jedi.
Dante: My friend is trying to convince me that any contractors working on the uncompleted Death Star were innocent victims when the space station was destroyed by the rebels.
Blue-Collar Man: Well, I'm a contractor myself. I'm a roofer... (digs into pocket and produces business card) Dunn and Reddy Home Improvements. And speaking as a roofer, I can say that a roofer's personal politics come heavily into play when choosing jobs.
Randal: Like when?
Blue-Collar Man: Three months ago I was offered a job up in the hills. A beautiful house with tons of property. It was a simple reshingling job, but I was told that if it was finished within a day, my price would be doubled. Then I realized whose house it was.
Dante: Whose house was it?
Blue-Collar Man: Dominick Bambino's.
Randal: "Babyface" Bambino? The gangster?
Blue-Collar Man: The same. The money was right, but the risk was too big. I knew who he was, and based on that, I passed the job on to a friend of mine.
Dante: Based on personal politics.
Blue-Collar Man: Right. And that week, the Foresci family put a hit on Babyface's house. My friend was shot and killed. He wasn't even finished shingling.
Randal: No way!
Blue-Collar Man: (paying for coffee) I'm alive because I knew there were risks involved taking on that particular client. My friend wasn't so lucky. (pauses to reflect) You know, any contractor willing to work on that Death Star knew the risks. If they were killed, it was their own fault. A roofer listens to this... (taps his heart) not his wallet.

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Russell Nash
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2008, 04:21:13 AM »

I'm surprised at the number of votes Jedi has gotten so far.  I always saw it as the beginning of the end for good star wars story-telling.
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Tango Alpha Delta
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2008, 11:01:02 AM »

I believe the pertinent quote is this:

Quote from: Kevin Smith, Clerks

Blue-Collar Man: (paying for coffee)  A roofer listens to this... (taps his heart) not his wallet.


What always bothered me about that dialogue was that this guy seemed so proud of getting his friend killed!  If I knew the job was dangerous, and I could afford to pass it up, I would refer someone I thought deserved to be shot during a shingling... not a friend who was too desperate to pass up such an opportunity.

Not only that, Randall's supposition that all of the people in the FIRST Death Star were evil bothers me, too.  Speaking on behalf of all bureaucratic cogs within defense industries, not everyone there was necessarily a supporter of Palpatine or his policies.  I have no doubt there were Oscar Schindler types embedded there, subtly shielding alien species from the Emperor's genocidal exploits; I have no doubt there were plenty of logistics, planning, and technical staff who were trying to serve the greater good while eagerly watching the Coruscant caucuses, and hoping that someone less evil would end up with the Imperial nomination.  (That Organa guy seems okay, but may not have enough experience; we just hope Governor Tarkin doesn't get through the primaries, because he creeps us out, and we aren't so sure about his dodgy religious views.)

Basically, no matter what government it is, in any government facility, there are always food services, facilities, and infrastructure contractors onsite who either have no idea what kind of evil they are enabling, or have no real choice: work here, or watch your family starve.  It's a hard Empire, you know... not the rosy economic picture that the Decider... I mean Emperor... likes to paint.

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sirana
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2008, 08:29:06 AM »

I must admit I'm with Holden on "The Usual Suspects".
It's a movie that is completely geared toward the Great Twist(tm) at the end. And when you don't like the twist or don't think it's good enough to have a whole movie geared towards it, then you probably don't find the movie very attractive.
I didn't find the the twist interesting, it didn't make much sense to me, so I don't like the movie.
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eytanz
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2008, 08:33:17 AM »

I must admit I'm with Holden on "The Usual Suspects".
It's a movie that is completely geared toward the Great Twist(tm) at the end. And when you don't like the twist or don't think it's good enough to have a whole movie geared towards it, then you probably don't find the movie very attractive.
I didn't find the the twist interesting, it didn't make much sense to me, so I don't like the movie.

Yeah, that's a view I can totally understand, even if I don't share it. But Holden is saying that the twist doesn't actually explain anything, which is just false. There is plenty of information in the film which is explained by the twist; whether or not you think it was worthwhile sitting through it to get there is a totally different question.
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Tango Alpha Delta
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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2008, 09:05:58 AM »

I must admit I'm with Holden on "The Usual Suspects".
It's a movie that is completely geared toward the Great Twist(tm) at the end. And when you don't like the twist or don't think it's good enough to have a whole movie geared towards it, then you probably don't find the movie very attractive.
I didn't find the the twist interesting, it didn't make much sense to me, so I don't like the movie.

I thought it was special because it wasn't a "Great Twist" so much as a constant misdirection throughout.  Like eytanz said, all the clues are there for you, but they are hidden in plain sight by a master liar.  Of all of these movies, it was by far the cleverest idea, and was well executed throughout... and it was the clear underdog in this contest, which drew my (still very lonely) vote. 

Raiders of the Lost Ark - fantastic rollercoaster thrill ride that still pleases
The Terminator - another great thriller that still holds up; though I was really ticked off by the reveal in the third movie
Return of the Jedi - My first experience with disappointment as a child; Ewoks?  gimme a break... And my first childhood realization that cheesy dialogue is, well, cheesy.
Night of the Living Dead - Um... please don't hurt me... I am not that into zombie movies.
The Usual Suspects - Great storytelling, great performances, and a "reveal" that left me with more questions than answers; my idea of fun!

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Darwinist
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2008, 11:29:06 PM »

I'm surprised at the number of votes Jedi has gotten so far.  I always saw it as the beginning of the end for good star wars story-telling.

Yes, same here.  The Ewoks begot Jar-Jar Binks.  Yech!
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For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.    -  Carl Sagan
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