Author Topic: EP143: Flaming Marshmallow and Other Deaths  (Read 73112 times)

Darwinist

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Reply #25 on: February 04, 2008, 02:27:08 PM

My only complain was that the dialogue made me feel like an old man, do kids really talk like that?

Yeah.  DKT asked the same question a while back.  Boys are more inclined to just say the F-word while girls tend to say "effin"  - at least thats what I hear.  But, every 10 minutes a new "cool" word comes along and that's all you hear for a while.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.    -  Carl Sagan


CGFxColONeill

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Reply #26 on: February 04, 2008, 03:49:03 PM

My only complain was that the dialogue made me feel like an old man, do kids really talk like that?

Yeah.  DKT asked the same question a while back.  Boys are more inclined to just say the F-word while girls tend to say "effin"  - at least thats what I hear.  But, every 10 minutes a new "cool" word comes along and that's all you hear for a while.
depends on the person
I used to work w/ a girl that if she went more than 20 min w/o saying the F-word something was wrong so ya I guess it depends on the person and area of the country

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Nooks

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Reply #27 on: February 04, 2008, 05:33:46 PM
Wow, what a great start to a really excellent-sounding story.  I can't wait to hear the rest of it.

Okay, so that's pretty snarky, but I feel let-down by this story and last week's (Artifice and Intelligence). They both seemed to be only the merest kernel of an idea without sufficient development to make them fully compelling.

That said, FMaOD has depths and characterization beyond AaI; the main character's sound is pretty plausible despite being a bit too overtly stereotyped Valley Girl.  The dad was a nice touch---I wonder if his cause of death is somehow linked to his daughter's.

All in all, I'd have been happier if FMoAD had been developed to the point of Greg Egan's "The Hundred-Light-Year Diary", but I'm not complaining much.  +1 for production values this week.



eytanz

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Reply #28 on: February 04, 2008, 06:12:56 PM
Not much for me to say about this one. For a while I was wondering if the story would take a serious turn with one of the kids actually dying and the protagonist deciding she doesn't want to know or something - and I was very glad it didn't. I did really like the turn it took, especially in the depiction of the father.

I was also a bit puzzled by her cause of death, but I guess it was supposed to sound futuristic and far away and not really important beyond that. Of course, there was a missed opportunity here, as if her COD was "Heat death of the universe", there could have been a cool crossover with "In the late December" in the making ;)
« Last Edit: February 04, 2008, 06:14:44 PM by eytanz »



Djerrid

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Reply #29 on: February 04, 2008, 06:17:28 PM
My first thought was She should put a couple of dollars in a savings account and then she'd be a trillionaire by the time she's "middle aged". My next thought was I wonder how that machine would effect the life insurance industry.
Ok, I'm gonna shoo some kids off my lawn now.



Darwinist

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Reply #30 on: February 04, 2008, 06:40:59 PM
My next thought was I wonder how that machine would effect the life insurance industry.
Ok, I'm gonna shoo some kids off my lawn now.

Interesting. I would think that since the machine doesn't give a time of death that it wouldn't make that much difference.   On the other hand, most of us aren't worrying about death and life insurance in our teens or even twenties.   I guess if a person found out they were a "suicide" they or their family would want to load up on life insurance ASAP since there is usually a suicide timing issues on most policies.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.    -  Carl Sagan


eytanz

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Reply #31 on: February 04, 2008, 08:48:07 PM
My next thought was I wonder how that machine would effect the life insurance industry.
Ok, I'm gonna shoo some kids off my lawn now.

Interesting. I would think that since the machine doesn't give a time of death that it wouldn't make that much difference.   On the other hand, most of us aren't worrying about death and life insurance in our teens or even twenties.   I guess if a person found out they were a "suicide" they or their family would want to load up on life insurance ASAP since there is usually a suicide timing issues on most policies.

There's that. But also think about car insurance - if someone knows they are going to die in a crash, is their premium going up?



Darwinist

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Reply #32 on: February 04, 2008, 08:55:46 PM

There's that. But also think about car insurance - if someone knows they are going to die in a crash, is their premium going up?

They could be riding along as a passenger which wouldn't affect their premium.   I can't remember if the machine specified they type of vehicle they were riding in.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.    -  Carl Sagan


gelee

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Reply #33 on: February 04, 2008, 10:31:24 PM

There's that. But also think about car insurance - if someone knows they are going to die in a crash, is their premium going up?

They could be riding along as a passenger which wouldn't affect their premium.   I can't remember if the machine specified they type of vehicle they were riding in.
Considering the way the actuarial tables work, if you, or anyone in your family, is a "crasher", I can assure that your premiums would go up.



Darwinist

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Reply #34 on: February 04, 2008, 10:49:49 PM

There's that. But also think about car insurance - if someone knows they are going to die in a crash, is their premium going up?

They could be riding along as a passenger which wouldn't affect their premium.   I can't remember if the machine specified they type of vehicle they were riding in.
Considering the way the actuarial tables work, if you, or anyone in your family, is a "crasher", I can assure that your premiums would go up.

My original comment about knowing the cause of death of people not making much of a difference in the insurance industry was way off.  The whole insurance industry would have to be revamped.  Each type of death would have to be assigned some type of average life expectancy and risk - like current smoker / non-smoker ratings.  It would be a mess.  The "old-ager" group would pay the lowest premiums and "suiciders" would probably be ineligible all together, with everyone else falling somewhere in between.       

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.    -  Carl Sagan


deflective

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Reply #35 on: February 05, 2008, 09:03:30 AM
Considering the way the actuarial tables work, if you, or anyone in your family, is a "crasher", I can assure that your premiums would go up.

you gotta wonder if forming cliques around cause of death is really the best way to go.
"what? the crashers? yeah, they just piled into Lisa's van on their way to the burners' indoor barbecue."

new airport regulation: at least one old ager on every flight.



robertmarkbram

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Reply #36 on: February 05, 2008, 09:58:39 AM
new airport regulation: at least one old ager on every flight.

New airport regulation: at least one young old ager on every flight, who has to ride tied to the nose cone...


ajames

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Reply #37 on: February 05, 2008, 11:06:41 AM
Loved this one, great pick Steve!



Russell Nash

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Reply #38 on: February 05, 2008, 01:26:34 PM


I have to admit, i had my doubts about the whole "Machine of Death" concept when i first heard of the contest a year or so ago and wondered if it would produce any good stories. But after hearing that, i'll definitely be checking it out.

eh??  whatchyoo talkin bout willus?

We have a winner for the "Obscure Reference Award" for this thread.



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Reply #39 on: February 05, 2008, 02:02:23 PM
My next thought was I wonder how that machine would effect the life insurance industry.
Ok, I'm gonna shoo some kids off my lawn now.

Interesting. I would think that since the machine doesn't give a time of death that it wouldn't make that much difference.   On the other hand, most of us aren't worrying about death and life insurance in our teens or even twenties.   I guess if a person found out they were a "suicide" they or their family would want to load up on life insurance ASAP since there is usually a suicide timing issues on most policies.

The insurance companies were quite upset in Heinlein's story "Lifeline" as well.

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Reply #40 on: February 05, 2008, 04:23:40 PM
Cotton Candy!  That was my impression of this story.  As always I post before reading all the other posts, because I don't want other posts to taint my views until after I have gotten my views down on "Paper." 

As Mr. Eley said at the beginning, if you don't want to remember you high school years you might want to skip this one, wow I wish I had skipped it.  Maybe I am just too old, maybe my high school years were different, maybe maybe maybe... But I doubt it.  I listened to the whole story saying, it is going to get better but, it didn't.

The build up was all about this slip and how it was so important to how cool she would be tomorrow, and then at the end it was all about a father not wanting to think about how it daughter was going to die.  As a father I can understand that, and I could even get into it.  I could even see how my daughter might be more interested in wanting to know what it was than how it might make me feel.  With all that being said It felt out of place in the story.  What about her old friend?  Why was he there?  Did he really add anything to the story?  In a story so short I think I would have dropped him. 

The reader did an excellent job with portraying the standard stereotypical teen aged girl.  So good job on that!  However, with that in mind I am so totally over and stuff, the valley girl thing, I found myself getting annoyed while listening to it.   All teen aged girls are not from that mythical valley, and though they do seem to have their own language, (which in case you are interested there will be a masters degree program in the language of teen aged girls held at my house in two more years) they don't all talk like that. 

So for a wrap up.  Reader: good job.  Writer: sorry but I was not impressed.  Mr. Eley: Please no more of these!

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DKT

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Reply #41 on: February 05, 2008, 06:18:54 PM


I have to admit, i had my doubts about the whole "Machine of Death" concept when i first heard of the contest a year or so ago and wondered if it would produce any good stories. But after hearing that, i'll definitely be checking it out.

eh??  whatchyoo talkin bout willus?

We have a winner for the "Obscure Reference Award" for this thread.

What really scares me is that that reference is now considered obscure. :-\


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Reply #42 on: February 05, 2008, 07:33:23 PM


I have to admit, i had my doubts about the whole "Machine of Death" concept when i first heard of the contest a year or so ago and wondered if it would produce any good stories. But after hearing that, i'll definitely be checking it out.

eh??  whatchyoo talkin bout willus?

We have a winner for the "Obscure Reference Award" for this thread.

What really scares me is that that reference is now considered obscure. :-\

Well Diff'rent Strokes was cancelled over 20 years ago



Darwinist

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Reply #43 on: February 05, 2008, 07:58:15 PM


I have to admit, i had my doubts about the whole "Machine of Death" concept when i first heard of the contest a year or so ago and wondered if it would produce any good stories. But after hearing that, i'll definitely be checking it out.

eh??  whatchyoo talkin bout willus?

We have a winner for the "Obscure Reference Award" for this thread.

What really scares me is that that reference is now considered obscure. :-\

Well Diff'rent Strokes was cancelled over 20 years ago

.......and Kimberly Drummond (Plato) died in 1999 and Willis (Todd Bridges) has moved on to a successfull career as a producer - his latest masterpiece is called "Big Ball'n 2 - Pimp'n Ain't Easy".  Dig it!

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.    -  Carl Sagan


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Reply #44 on: February 05, 2008, 08:45:17 PM
What an excellent story.  Wonderful relationships expressed in understated ways.  The father said so much without dialog!

The reading was very good.  However.  I think there might be a production issue there.  The readers voice came over a lot louder than the intro.  I nearly lot an ear drum or three.


DKT

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Reply #45 on: February 05, 2008, 09:05:42 PM


I have to admit, i had my doubts about the whole "Machine of Death" concept when i first heard of the contest a year or so ago and wondered if it would produce any good stories. But after hearing that, i'll definitely be checking it out.

eh??  whatchyoo talkin bout willus?

We have a winner for the "Obscure Reference Award" for this thread.

What really scares me is that that reference is now considered obscure. :-\

Well Diff'rent Strokes was cancelled over 20 years ago

.......and Kimberly Drummond (Plato) died in 1999 and Willis (Todd Bridges) has moved on to a successfull career as a producer - his latest masterpiece is called "Big Ball'n 2 - Pimp'n Ain't Easy".  Dig it!

Yeah, but you guys are forgettin' Arnold run against another fading star named Arnold a few years ago for California's governor race.  (God forgive us.)


Nobilis

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Reply #46 on: February 05, 2008, 11:12:37 PM
There's a formula for writing a science fiction short story.  First, pick a technology.  Whatever you want is fine, as long as it's something that doesn't exist yet.  Second, pick a group of people.  You can't pick "Everyone" because that's too big, you won't be able to cover it in less than 50,000 words, not and do it right.  Then, Madlibs-style, fit those two words into this question:

What would be the effect on _(group of people)_ if _(technology)_ existed?

I've used this formula many times in my own writing.  It's a pretty solid way to create a pretty solid story.  Of course, if you never deviate from that question, and start talking about the characters as individual people rather than just a delivery mechanism for your speculations, that's all you'll get... a pretty solid story.

Still, this was a better story than Lust for Learning (ep. 104) which had a similar structure but nothing else going for it. 

I especially liked the father; even though he only had a few minutes screen time, I especially sympathized with him, probably because my kids are young teenagers.



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Reply #47 on: February 05, 2008, 11:47:34 PM
Question: do kids really say "effing" or "what the ef?"  Not too many high schoolers I know do, they usually just say it.  I was okay with it once but when it happened three times, I thought it was funny.  Still, that's a pretty minor complaint :)

I grew up in a heavily Mormon school district in NW Phoenix; the non-Mormon kids peppered their speech with whatever they wanted, mostly to needle the devout LDS kids.  The less-devout LDS kids would substitute "heck" or (*gasp*) the dreaded "fetch" ... as in "Oh, my heck!" or "What the fetch?"

There are endless euphemisms out there, so "effing" and "ef" are probably not unreasonable.

There was a lot for me to like about this one; I thought Dani's reading was pitch perfect, and, like Bunter, I loved that we didn't delve into the tech ... how many 16-year-olds really CARE how the car works, as long as it gives them status? 

I thought the ending struck just the right tone, as well; I read where one of the commentors on the EP143 post who said they were disappointed that it "just ended", but I thought it was just right.  Being a "fuggy, dad smelling" guy myself, I certainly see the beauty of that juxtaposition where the best news to one of us seems like the worst news to the other.

I'm just glad it didn't have the cheesy twist I envisioned where she got a slip that read "death by flaming marshmallow"...

Quote from: me, writing a fake ending
And then I turned and saw Bradley or whatever his name was coming out of the food court.  I showed him my slip and he smiled and held my hand.  Then we heard screaming, and someone was yelling that the Ghostbusters were outside.  So we stepped out, just in time to see them fry that evil, giant marshmallow man... and *whap*... that's how we ended up here in the afterlife!

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wakela

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Reply #48 on: February 06, 2008, 01:39:01 AM
Very cool little story.

Whether or not it was realistic, I found her manner of speaking believable. 

It seemed like the father somehow knew she was going to die young, so I was waiting for this light story to go all DARK and DEEP and CHALLENGING OF MY PRECONCEPTIONS and the slip somehow say that the father was going to kill her or that she was going to die in the next 15 minutes.  That would have blown the story.  That the story was a happy ending for the father and a sad one for the girl was beautiful. 

I too liked the relationship with the father.  Teenagers hating their parents has become a very tired cliche in my opinion (especially with sons and fathers).  That the author realized that parents and children can have completely different world views and still express tenderness for each other was a breath of fresh air. 

The cliques that the kids broke up into perfectly mirrors the inverse relationship between that which makes you socially successful in high school and that which makes you successful after graduation (good at computers, good at football, etc).  I kept wondering "what's with all the burners and crashers?  Where's cancer and heart disease....ah, of course.  They're lame."  Nice touch.

My quibble is that her old friend with the protester mom seemed to be a Chekov's gun that didn't fire.  Though the story of the cool kid who rediscovers her affection for her uncool childhood friend is also pretty cliche, so I'm glad they didn't go there.  But still, it didn't seem to be necessary. 



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Reply #49 on: February 06, 2008, 01:55:46 AM
IMHO  would have been a much funnier ending.  As it was I was pretty disappointed in this story.  Too light too fluffy too full of hot air.
Quote
from: me, writing a fake ending
And then I turned and saw Bradley or whatever his name was coming out of the food court.  I showed him my slip and he smiled and held my hand.  Then we heard screaming, and someone was yelling that the Ghostbusters were outside.  So we stepped out, just in time to see them fry that evil, giant marshmallow man... and *whap*... that's how we ended up here in the afterlife!

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http://GreatHites.blogspot.com