Author Topic: EP141: The Color of a Brontosaurus  (Read 33998 times)

Russell Nash

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Reply #50 on: February 05, 2008, 01:13:13 PM
Thanks, bolddeciever... that's what happens when I base a scientific question on my mis-remembered reading of Jurassic Park!  (On a side note, why does every person who tries to convince me that "the science behind global warming is faulty" point to Crichton's fictional screed about global warming, and never to an actual scientist?)


Q) I don't think it was spelled out, but they established that the femur was modern human through... DNA testing?  If it was a modern human, there would be a lot one could tell from the results, without necessarily having to "match" the bone to a known individual.  Of course, if you felt, as I did, that Stu thought the bone was his, anyway, couldn't he have done a quick test to see?  Or did Stu not take any DNA to the office that day?
I don't think he suspected the bone was his, I think "modern human" was only speaking anthropologically.

Okay, if you say so; I thought there was a scene after Renee and Joel (or whomever) stomped out where Stu looked down at the bone and grew convinced that it was literally his.  I wasn't sure if he really suspected that it was, or was just running with his delusions.
Hmmm... I might be wrong. I'll have to go back and check it out.

They could tell just by looking at the bone it was modern.  There are physical charactoristics that seperate modern femurs from earlier ones. 

I think he just started getting a gut feeling that it might be his.  I also think that  he created this feeling in himself out of his desire to see the dinosaurs.  If the bone was his, he gets to see dinosaurs.



wakela

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Reply #51 on: February 06, 2008, 02:08:16 AM
This is one of the rare examples of me liking a story more before reading the discussion.

I missed when the story established that the bone was Stu's.  In fact I remember them dismissing the possibility early in the story.  I forgot how, but I remember, "Well, that alleviates one overused science fiction cliche." Or something like that.  I chuckled because I had just heard the Drabblecast story that did not alleviate the cliche.

The problem I had with the story was that it seemed like too much of a coincence that Marcy comes back in time to see the speech in New York City, and accidentally meets and marries the one guy who finds proof of time travel ... or am I missing something. 

Oh, and I hate it when people deliberately wait until someone is dead to honor their request.  "He would have wanted it this way."  Screw that.  He would have wanted this ten years ago! ... and I thought the time travel device was tuned to her body chemistry, anyway.



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Reply #52 on: February 06, 2008, 03:53:05 AM
... and I thought the time travel device was tuned to her body chemistry, anyway.


Ah!  A point I wasn't confused about!  I forget the exact wording, but I'm pretty sure she explained that she couldn't send "living organic" matter.

(Now I say that, and I am wondering whether the exact wording made sense...)

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Czhorat

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Reply #53 on: February 06, 2008, 11:45:45 AM
The problem I had with the story was that it seemed like too much of a coincence that Marcy comes back in time to see the speech in New York City, and accidentally meets and marries the one guy who finds proof of time travel ... or am I missing something.

You could make this work.

Because he met a woman from the future, it was possible for his bones to go back in time.
Because his corpse went back in time, his femur ended up as a fossil.
Because his femur ended up as a fossil, he became interested in time travel.
Because he became interested in time travel, he figured out that his wife was a time traveller.
Because he figured out his wife was a time traveller, his corpse went back in time.

They key, as in most time travel paradoxes, is that cause does not have to precede effect.

The story still didn't work for me.

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DDog

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Reply #54 on: February 11, 2008, 04:43:31 AM
I liked this story while I was listening to it, and although I accept many of previous commenters' concerns, I still like it. I had a post planned in my head but I've forgotten it since listening to the episode last week. It was a little distracting at first to have another character named Stu (hearkening back to "Stu" on an earlier episode).

The story had some subtle details that I enjoyed very much. I liked the language a la "green plastic fish"--a great twist on the traditional "2+2=5" and worthy of Discordian adoption. I also thought that Marcy's rebuttal to Stu's feelings of betrayal about her being a time traveler was excellent and very real.

I think there was more depth in the side characters than it seems at a surface listening. I thought it was interesting that Renee's purple hair and (eyebrow? nose?) ring disappeared as soon as she decided to spin the bone as evidence of creationism—somehow she was taken seriously as a (female!) conventional scientist with an idiosyncratic appearance, but decided she would not have the same luxuries as a creation scientist. Joel sounds like an idiot to many of us for saying Renee can't be right because it contradicts evolution, but there are scientists that do see the world that way and have somehow forgotten the lessons in the scientific method from high school biology.

Steve's comments on "Flaming Marshmallows and Other Deaths" about the attraction and importance of science fiction to young readers I think is very well served by this story. The guy with the seemingly sci-fi ideals turns out to be right. He doesn't get exactly what he wants, but a potential is created in the world for his dreams, just because someone thought them. Doesn't that happen all the time? And it's only more likely as information and dreams and ideas are disseminated more widely. Somewhere, somewhen, there is someone who can make your sci-fi dreams come true; even if you can't do it yourself, you can put the idea out there and eventually someone will get your sci-fi earworm and make it happen. It may not be wrapped up as nice and neat as needing a time traveler and PRESTO your wife is one, but it happens.

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eytanz

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Reply #55 on: February 11, 2008, 08:15:45 AM
I think there was more depth in the side characters than it seems at a surface listening. I thought it was interesting that Renee's purple hair and (eyebrow? nose?) ring disappeared as soon as she decided to spin the bone as evidence of creationism—somehow she was taken seriously as a (female!) conventional scientist with an idiosyncratic appearance, but decided she would not have the same luxuries as a creation scientist.

I interpreted that a bit differently - I thought that the reason her appearance became more conventional was because she had switched to a more conservative outlook and thus no longer found her own earlier appearance acceptable.



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Reply #56 on: February 21, 2008, 10:36:13 AM
I too found the debate between the scientists totally implausible.  What scientist wouldn't put a finding like that out to the rest of the world as soon as possible and simply say, "I don't know what this means, but damn if it isn't interesting!"

I guess they didn't pay enough attention to Asimov:
Quote from: Asimov
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!', but 'That's funny ...'

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jodymonster

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Reply #57 on: February 21, 2008, 08:28:47 PM
Quote from: Asimov
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!', but 'That's funny ...'

Great quote! Thanks for putting that one out there.
I know these points have been made before about this story, but still;
I think I would have enjoyed this story more if I hadn't heard the very similar Drabblecast story right before.  Even without hearing the Drabblecast, it was still a predictable ending.  And I wish they had used any dinosaur name other than Brontosaurus. For me, the use of this misnomer kinda ruined the whole thing.  I couldn't take the science of the story seriously, and without that there wasn't much of a story left.  One word can mean so much. 

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Reply #58 on: September 14, 2010, 04:47:11 PM
I didn't care much for this one

1.  Any time a bone is found in a time travel related story, my first assumption is that it is that own person's bone.  This is probably due to some heavy Philip K. Dick reading, such as his short story The Skull. 

2.  The scientists didn't sound like real scientists as others have pointed out.  Great, all three of you have different theories, but none of you have solid evidence of it.  So, instead of arguing and sabotaging your own data, maybe you should LOOK FOR MORE EVIDENCE.  And the first step to doing that, as others have again pointed out, is to publish in order to GET FUNDING.  Admit the possibility that it might be a hoax or a mistake, but it's still a big enough thing that someone with money is likely to be interested.

3.  I just didn't really care what happened to anyone.  All of the characters were about 1/2 dimensional, and none of them ever felt like real people.