Author Topic: EP146: Edward Bear and the Very Long Walk  (Read 57291 times)

Thaurismunths

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Reply #25 on: February 25, 2008, 12:16:10 AM
Winnie The Pooh, surrounded by dead children, is my new "happy place."
I really enjoyed the story, aside from my own morbid sense of humor.

Col O'Neil, care to expound on why this was the lamest EP yet?

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Reply #26 on: February 25, 2008, 12:19:15 AM
I dont know what exactly it was about it but the story just did not fit w/ the picture I have gotten from the previous episodes of EP
maybe it was because I listened to them all really fast not over a longer time but it just did not measure up to the standard that Steve gave me from past episodes lol

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Reply #27 on: February 25, 2008, 02:36:52 AM

This one affected me more than any other EP.  In the grand background of planet colonization and interplanetary spaceships this story of a little bear pulled at my heartstrings.  Very well done - can't wait to have my family listen to it. 

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Reply #28 on: February 25, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
I didn't know that Winnie the Pooh's real name was Edward Bear.  I was all set to comment on how I was getting tired of the Pooh parallels.

(Don't worry, I'm not going to hijack this into another thread about poo.  Or Pooh.)

I think I enjoyed the story, but I kept waiting for something MORE to happen.  I felt that the climax was when Edward fought the Giant Lumps Of Fur to save the Parrotchen children, then went back in -- I got kind of a Richard-Fights-the-Beast-of-London vibe off that one.  ("Neverwhere" by Neil Gaiman)  After that, it was kind of clear to me that Edward would succeed in his quest, somehow or another.

I expected something either much more sinister or much more allegorically-simplistic -- either Edward had really been at fault for killing the children, or the Very Long Walk would be from the nursery to, say, the engine room.  Perhaps by not knowing that Edward was Pooh and therefore I should've read this with a Milnean tilt, I was missing out or looking in the wrong direction.

I did like the way the author dropped toys and toy-ish thoughts into a futuristic setting.

The reading was fine.  Had a moment of confusion splitting the holo-boy in the nursery and Edward, since their voices were so similar.  Was it just me, or did Steve seem like he was hitting his consonants harder than usual in this one?

Overall, a not-bad story, but not the kind of thing I think I would necessarily like to hear again.

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Reply #29 on: February 25, 2008, 04:53:47 PM
I think I am getting spoiled by the rich production used in Drabblecast, becuase I kept thinking how awesome would this story be with music, effects, and a little wider range of voicing.  No offense intend toward you Steve, you always do a great job and I always appreicated you slight but noticable vocing for each character in strories you read.

But I would love to hear more Norm on EP, but I think he stays pretty busy taking care of his own podcast.  And vise versa if goatkeeper ever reads this board, lets get some Eley on Drabblecast, either as voice talent or a story!  I have not heard a good Steve Eley story in a while. 



contra

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Reply #30 on: February 25, 2008, 07:21:10 PM
Awesome story. 

When you see these Elmo toys getting more and more advanced
http://gizmodo.com/356488/first-video-of-elmo-live-singing-and-dancing-shows-he-got-skillz
Latest model... dances, sings, tells jokes and stories... worrying amount of stuff.
You need to wonder where this will end up.  Though I think this story would have been VERY annoying if Elmo was used instead of Pooh.... sorry, Edward >_>.  Though I kinda wanna hear Steve do his best Elmo accent...

So yes I liked this one.  Easily. Awesome.  I liked the ending a lot.  Its exactly how I imagined Edward would react if put in that situation in the end...

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Jhite

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Reply #31 on: February 25, 2008, 07:50:04 PM
I was impressed with this story.  I liked the way it handled the childlike aspect of the bear, but showed only the barest of emotions.  (forgive the unindented pun.) It was obvious to me that Edward had emotions but he didn't show them like a child, despite his child like brain. 

I wondered about the alien species on the planet, obviously there are some, and the idea of humans coming and part of me, the cynical part, hoped for Edward to fail.  Humans, in most sci/fi, don't live well with others.  The idea that a simple species would be wiped out by the "incoming invasion" made me sad.  In a universe where we (humans) seem to think that everything is ours for the taking, and we are the over all smartest beings around, how long would it be before some colonist realized that it was one of these species that had the "bug" that killed the people on the first colony ship. 

Please don't get me wrong, the idea of humans dyeing, epically children, puts a knot right in the pit of my stomach.  Heck, I even cried when  Vader killed the "young-lings" as cheesy as that scene was.  But I think of stories like Garden of Rama, when the "humans" that came killed most of the other creatures on the ship because they felt it was their right to do so.  let's not look at the bigger picture here and figure out how we can live together and help each other.   No way we are humans after all and that makes us the best.  Kill Kill Kill :(

Ooops kind of went off there.  In the end the Alien species and Edward did work together, and he proved as good an ambassador as any other to for us.  I understand that most of my commentary is beyond the scope of the story, but as much as I liked the story for itself, this is what it made me think about.  Sorry for the bit of the soap box.  Just something I have been thinking about a lot lately. 

Great Choice on a story Mr. Eley (ooops Steve.)  Keep'em coming

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Reply #32 on: February 25, 2008, 09:25:37 PM
Holy Spaghetti Monster but I really didn't need to listen to that story on my way to work on a Monday morning, still, at least my tears mingled with those of other wage slaves heading towards Canary Wharf.

I thought it spoke well of a society that even a throw-away disposable toy like Edward Bear has subroutines designed to comfort him in what is presumably supposed to be the unlikely event of his being so damaged he's going to die. All in all, I think that suggests a race that actually deserves to survive.

I think this story is up there with 'Ej-Es' as one of my most favourite stories so far.



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Reply #33 on: February 26, 2008, 01:52:57 AM
That was a beautifully sad story.

I was wondering when Tigger would show.  heh.
I missed Eeyore.  :(

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Reply #34 on: February 26, 2008, 11:57:20 AM
Very good story. i think it could maybe have been better if the explanation (spaceship, virus, signal transmitter etc.) had been left for last so that it could have had a fantasy style feel with a science fiction reveal at the end, but it was still very enjoyable



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Reply #35 on: February 26, 2008, 12:53:29 PM
Though I think this story would have been VERY annoying if Elmo was used instead of Pooh..

Puncture-me Elmo?

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Reply #36 on: February 26, 2008, 12:59:25 PM
I read quite a few Pooh books to my daughter when she was younger, so this story really hit home for me. 

Good story.
Good reading.

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Anarkey

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Reply #37 on: February 26, 2008, 04:35:07 PM
Man, I hate to speak up and remove all doubt of my cold-hearted bitchedness, but this story...

I didn't think it was moving, unless by moving you mean my hand moving to the delete key as quickly as possible.

This is not an execution criticism, I think it was well-written and that it held together thematically (though the ending, because I wasn't all emotionally hooked, gave me a few 'that doesn't make any sense' moments) and it was a very good example of its type.

But urgh.  I had cute allergy so strong I thought I might have to whip out the Benadryl.

I am astonished at the number of people for whom this tale produced a wave of nostalgia and emotional connectedness.  I am flipped out by how many people this story this worked for.  To each his own, as they say, except apparently the masses have an own that boggles my poor outsider mind.

I like Pooh just fine!  I've sat through "Piglet's Big Movie" with my daughter at least seventeen times, and I still enjoy it.  Further, I'd wager my love of children's lit exceeds that of most people's here. 

But man, I haven't had this kind of negative "Gimme a break," reaction since the EP story about the penguin balloon and I thought I'd be less alone in the naysaying camp.

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Reply #38 on: February 26, 2008, 05:15:42 PM
Was it the cute allegory bit that bothered you, Anarkey?  I can tell you didn't like the story, but I'm not 100% sure why.

I'm in the other camp.  At first, I thought it was going to be a rollicking adventure story, more Winnie the Pooh Conquers the Martians than LotR, but although I still got a definite feel of adventure, it came off more nostalgic and emotional than I expected it to be.  Pooh's "Tell me about Someday" at the end got me a little teary-eyed.  I really like what I've read by Ken Scholes (about three stories now).  It'd be cool to hear more from him.  And I think this one of the best readings I've heard Steve give. 


eytanz

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Reply #39 on: February 26, 2008, 06:21:33 PM
While my reaction wasn't as negative as Anarkey's, I have a serious problem with this story, and I've been struggling with myself for the past few days trying to understand it and express it. Here is an attempt to do so; you'll probably learn quite a lot more about me than you ever cared to if you read it.

Winnie the Pooh and The House at Pooh Corner were two of my most beloved childhood books. The badly worn copy of The House at Pooh Corner that sits on my shelf right now is the second one I owned - the first fell apart from repeated reading. The relatively pristine copy of Winnie the Pooh that sits by it is the third one, the first two having suffered the same fate.

Notice that I made reference to the books - the original ones - and not to the Disney movie/books/franchise. I never saw the Disney movie; or if I did see it as a child, I had forgotten about it a long time ago. Movies played a large role in my teen years, but they were not that important in my childhood. But, for as long as I can remember I loved reading, and before I could do that my parents used to read to me nearly every night.

This story is competant. It is touching. I'll grant that. But it would be as compentant and touching if it was about a toy bear that was not a literary referent. If instead of Edward bear we had George Bear, and instead of halucinating recognizable characters he dreamt of his parents and siblings (for example), the story would work just as well, or nearly so.

Instead, the story co-opts a well-known set of characters (and, mind you, it doesn't even have the temerity to do so properly - either totally ignoring copyright or getting permission - and instead plays a weasly game of "lets get as close as possible to being explicit without crossing the line". This works sometimes, when it's not a main plot point as it Late December, but here it just felt stupid. End of tangent) - it co-opts well-known characters, and in doing so, it sets itself up against a whole new set of expectations.

As far as I am concerned, the ending of "The House at Pooh Corner" was, and still is, one of the most touching and poignent endings in all literature. It is as bittersweet and tragic as the end of childhood always is.

The ending of this story, while touching, doesn't come anywhere near. Maybe it's just me, but self-sacrifice isn't nearly as universal or tragic as the inevitability of leaving one's childhood behind.

I'm not sure why the author of this story chose to use Pooh as his main character - there could be a variety of reasons, some better than others. But in doing so, he set himself up to a comparison against a source he cannot best, or even improve. I'm not upset - if I were to be upset at the commodification of Pooh I'd have far greater targets to be angry at than this story. I'm just unimpressed. Someone just tried to repackage a part of my childhood and hand it back to me with a more sophisticated, more adult finish. But, just like in the books' ending, there's a place inside me where my childhood still lives, and that place is always going to be more attractive than this new packaging.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 10:05:55 PM by eytanz »



eytanz

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Reply #40 on: February 26, 2008, 06:31:51 PM
Addendum: I should point out that I fully understand the very positive reactions most people had to this story. From an objective viewpoint, I share most of them. It was just hard for me to connect emotionally to it, for the reasons explained above.



Jhite

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Reply #41 on: February 26, 2008, 09:08:06 PM
I'm not sure why the author of this story choose to use Pooh as his main character - there could be a variety of reasons, some better than others. But in doing so, he set himself up to a comparison against a source he cannot best, or even improve. I'm not upset - if I were to be upset at the commodification of Pooh I'd have far greater targets to be angry at than this story. I'm just unimpressed. Someone just tried to repackage a part of my childhood and hand it back to me with a more sophisticated, more adult finish. But, just like in the books' ending, there's a place inside me where my childhood still lives, and that place is always going to be more attractive than this new packaging.

     I think, and this is my humble opinion, that many authors, myself included, look for short cuts.  That is the long and short of it.  You, as an author, have say 10k works to build a world, build a set of characters in that world, and tell a story.  The nature of sci/fi is that all of those things may be unfamiliar to the reader, so you have to "spend" some of your words on explaining these things to the reader.  If you borrow your setting, a character, or a plot from another source you can avoid some of this.  I have to say at this point that I think that it is a measure of a good Sci/fi author by how little of this he/she has to do and still let us see a world and characters and a plot that don't look like cardboard cut outs.

****** I took out most of what I originally posted  because I sounded preachy  but here is the gist*******

Blah Blah blah FanFic Blah blah blah Pale Copy of the original blah blah blah Movies not a good as books, blah blah blah could have done better. blah blah blah!

     I was able to enjoy the story because I looked past the references to pooh and thought about the rest of it.  As my first post suggests I was more worried about the native life on the planet than I was about what this bear happened to be called.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 09:36:59 PM by Jhite »

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Anarkey

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Reply #42 on: February 26, 2008, 09:16:47 PM
Was it the cute allegory bit that bothered you, Anarkey?  I can tell you didn't like the story, but I'm not 100% sure why.

No, not the allegory so much.  The bit that bothered me was that I felt the bear was portrayed over-emotionally, with language that pandered to triteness and sentimentality (for that matter, the ship AI moaning about her terrible mistake also set my teeth to the very edge.  I wanted to reach into the story, smack her, then tell her to stop acting so hysterical).  Why does Edward hope?  Why does he need to be assured of his value in the world?  Why is he afraid of death (the children's, his own)? I don't get it.  I think I was supposed to be all fuzzed up (ha!) about the teddy bear factor (plusextramegaplus if I noticed that the bear was Pooh) and I think the author threw out those lines thinking they were enough to make me give a damn instead of making the bear an actual for real character with any kind of complexity. 

The natives critters also bugged me.  Guh, talk about noble savage squared.

Dear Authors: 
your noble savages are neither noble nor savage.  Cut it out.  Write real characters who happen to be of a race/species/whatever because I can't take any more of the stereotype cookie cuttering.  Thanks!  Kisses, Anarkey.

There was a moment in the story that completely worked for me.  It was the moment when the bear is wired in, has full comprehension of the plan and the need for it and realizes he must toss three quarters of that info out because he can't retain it (though apparently throwing out the 'there, there, you're a hero, everything's ok' subroutine in order to save space does not occur to him).  That moment was understated and really walloped me (it's laced right into one of my storytelling kinks, too, the hard choices one) instead of sledgehammery and sappy like the opening and closing sequences.  If the whole story had been like that moment in emotional tenor and character illumination, I might have liked it better.  I also might have liked it better if I ever thought the bear was in any real danger of failing to complete the mission, but I didn't buy any of the close calls.

I also had a critical failure of funny, which I think this story needed if it was going to be about Pooh.

As far as I am concerned, the ending of "The House at Pooh Corner" was, and still is, one of the most touching and poignent endings in all literature. It is as bittersweet and tragic as the end of childhood always is.

The ending of this story, while touching, doesn't come anywhere near. Maybe it's just me, but self-sacrifice isn't nearly as universal or tragic as the inevitability of leaving one's childhood behind.

YES.  Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes!  It is not just you.  You nailed it, eytanz, better than I could have said it. 

I'm not sure why the author of this story choose to use Pooh as his main character - there could be a variety of reasons, some better than others. But in doing so, he set himself up to a comparison against a source he cannot best, or even improve.

Right on.  He invites comparisons that are unlikely to go favorably his way.  I have this same problem with remakes of old songs.  Nine times out of ten I'm like,"Uh.  Ok.  But why?"

Of course the one time out of ten I'm like OMG THIS IS AWESOME (They Might Be Giants' cover of "Istanbul not Constantinople" frex).  But this story was definitely in the nine times out of ten category.

P.S.  I also agree with eytanz that the Eekhout story did a better job of being referential.  It was also better at successfully engaging me emotionally.  Have I mentioned that I love Eekhout?  His stories make my heart go pitter patter.  See?  I'm not a complete hater.

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DKT

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Reply #43 on: February 26, 2008, 09:44:55 PM
Thanks, Anarkey and eytanz.  I totally get where you're coming from.  I haven't read all the Milne stuff, so maybe I don't have the same baggage, but I understand your perspective.  (I'm also starting to wonder if you two are split personalities ;))

     I think, and this is my humble opinion, that many authors, myself included, look for short cuts.  That is the long and short of it.  You, as an author, have say 10k works to build a world, build a set of characters in that world, and tell a story.  The nature of sci/fi is that all of those things may be unfamiliar to the reader, so you have to "spend" some of your words on explaining these things to the reader.  If you borrow your setting, a character, or a plot from another source you can avoid some of this.  I have to say at this point that I think that it is a measure of a good Sci/fi author by how little of this he/she has to do and still let us see a world and characters and a plot that don't look like cardboard cut outs.

I don't know, Jhite.  I think you're overlooking something.  I don't think the author used the Pooh Bear thing so much as a shortcut as he thought it would be fun story.


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Reply #44 on: February 26, 2008, 09:47:14 PM
****** I took out most of what I originally posted  because I sounded preachy  but here is the gist*******

Blah Blah blah FanFic Blah blah blah Pale Copy of the original blah blah blah Movies not a good as books, blah blah blah could have done better. blah blah blah!

Yeah, I was going to post about that, too, then realized you took it out.  Pretty much, my arguement was it's not Fanfic (not there's anything wrong with that) anymore than blah blah blah A.I. blah blah blah Pinnochio.  :)


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Reply #45 on: February 26, 2008, 09:54:05 PM
Of course the one time out of ten I'm like OMG THIS IS AWESOME (They Might Be Giants' cover of "Istanbul not Constantinople" frex).  But this story was definitely in the nine times out of ten category.

Aimee Mann's "Baby Blue"

Back to Pooh discussion..........

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Reply #46 on: February 26, 2008, 09:58:34 PM
****** I took out most of what I originally posted  because I sounded preachy  but here is the gist*******

Blah Blah blah FanFic Blah blah blah Pale Copy of the original blah blah blah Movies not a good as books, blah blah blah could have done better. blah blah blah!

Yeah, I was going to post about that, too, then realized you took it out.  Pretty much, my arguement was it's not Fanfic (not there's anything wrong with that) anymore than blah blah blah A.I. blah blah blah Pinnochio.  :)

I had hoped I pulled it out before anyone saw it.   

I don't really think it was FanFic but borderline enough that I thought about it. But also borderline enough that I was able to ignore that part of it and think about important things like the prime directive.  "Something you can transplant?  You boys have got to get this straight, there can be so much as a microbe of the show is off."  Relating back to my first post.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 10:00:58 PM by Jhite »

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eytanz

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Reply #47 on: February 26, 2008, 10:02:44 PM
I'm not sure why the author of this story choose to use Pooh as his main character - there could be a variety of reasons, some better than others.

     I think, and this is my humble opinion, that many authors, myself included, look for short cuts.

That's certainly one of the possibilities, but I'm inclined to be more generous to the author and think that there was more to it than that.

Quote from: Jhite
     I was able to enjoy the story because I looked past the references to pooh and thought about the rest of it.  As my first post suggests I was more worried about the native life on the planet than I was about what this bear happened to be called.

I was concerned about that too (see my earlier post on the topic). I have a feeling that you and I were thinking about while the story was going on is a symptom of the fact that it didn't entirely work for us, not a cause, though.

(for that matter, the ship AI moaning about her terrible mistake also set my teeth to the very edge.  I wanted to reach into the story, smack her, then tell her to stop acting so hysterical).

I didn't think of that before, but that's a really good point. Especially since the recap of the events implied that the AI didn't really make a mistake so much as there was a mechanical failure she could not control, which triggered a cascade of unforseeable disasters. Unless the AI also designed the ship, I can't see why she should blame herself. And who programs an AI that will have emotional meltdowns in the first place?

Maybe it was some sort of subtle trigger for the bear's programming - maybe the bear is supposed to react in a certain way to crying children and the AI needed to act that way to manipulate him into agreeing to help her/it. But if so, it wasn't very clear from the story.





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Reply #48 on: February 26, 2008, 10:31:44 PM
Quote from: eytanz
Quote

I'm not sure why the author of this story choose to use Pooh as his main character - there could be a variety of reasons, some better than others.

     I think, and this is my humble opinion, that many authors, myself included, look for short cuts.

That's certainly one of the possibilities, but I'm inclined to be more generous to the author and think that there was more to it than that.

Just for my own curiosity what do you think the author might have been trying to do.  Maybe right their own version of the pooh story?  If they where it didn't really work as you and other have pointed out.  That is why I said it was a short cut.  I have a ready-made  character that everyone already knows the history of, check now move on to the story.

Quote
was concerned about that too (see my earlier post on the topic). I have a feeling that you and I were thinking about while the story was going on is a symptom of the fact that it didn't entirely work for us, not a cause, though.
I know I was distracted by this all through the story enough that I tuned out the annoying talk about pooh, but I guess I really didn't think of it like that.  I thought it was intended to just make me think about other things.  (subliminally you want a coke and a box of popcorn) if you know what I mean.

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CGFxColONeill

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Reply #49 on: February 26, 2008, 10:43:22 PM
The ending of this story, while touching, doesn't come anywhere near. Maybe it's just me, but self-sacrifice isn't nearly as universal or tragic as the inevitability of leaving one's childhood behind.

also maybe the self-sacrifice is overused as a literary or film plot?
just a thought

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