EP147: Pressure

[Ocicat]

...everything built into the story that touched on the narrator's interaction with others involved some kind of miscommunication.

Good job picking up on the (mis)communication theme, TAD.  It was kind of lost on me on first listen, partly because I was listening in my car, and I need to use one of those broadcast-ipod-over-radio-frequency gizmos.  And that night the channel had an uncommon amount of static, so there were communication issues on my end as well.  On reflection, I think the communication problems and self isolation were what the story was really about.  The narrator can't get along well with people, so he gives up and turns himself into something else.  A metaphor really, for retreating into your own head rather than doing the hard work of getting along well with others.

I agree the science was pretty dubious, making all these advancements in body modifications at once, and being able to undo them (in theory) at that.  And there were little things that kept throwing me out of the story... when he first wakes up he knows the shape of his tank without seeing it, but later we're told he didn't have the sonar yet.  As hard SF this story is pretty lacking.  As metaphor it was okay, but needed some polish.

[Windup]

The "worst day of my life" comment was, I believe, literally true, but nobody's died and I'm not about to jump off a bridge.  It also means that every day since then has been better, and the worst is weeks in the past.  Things are on the upswing for me personally, and these podcasts are a big part of that too.  So sit tight; all will be made clear, and in the meantime, don't worry too much about me.  I'm feeling much hoopier now.

OK, sitting tight. Glad to hear that the worst day of your life so far doesn't involve imminent death, and that it's getting better. 

[Windup]

Having said that, what is true to the internal logic of the story is that someone prepared to volunteer for that kind of job would be self-sufficient to the point of weirdness.  And it's an interesting question to consider: would you want to be a famous pioneer if that was the cost?  It doesn't make for the kind of protagonist you could sit down and share a bucket of fish-heads with, though.  I wouldn't have been upset if the story had ended with a vicious shark attack.

Face it, a lot of the great frontiersmen (and to a lesser extent, frontierswomen) were out there because people in polite society couldn't stand them -- and vice versa.  As you note, the same personality that makes you a persevering and self-contained explorer often doesn't work well at close quarters for long periods of time.

What jumped out at me was the protaganist's autocratic streak.  He considered it a concession to let the boys "...choose their own friends, games and clothes," didn't consult his wife in a serious way about making a commitment that would take him completely out of the family for two years and expose him to a wide variety of dangers, yet was upset when she sprang and unplanned pregnancy on him. 

As for myself, no, I wouldn't be willing to take on a different and more abrasive personality to become a great pioneer.  Somewhere deep in my psychic wiring is a piece that says my marriage is the most important thing for me -- my personal "call," if you will -- and I wouldn't want to change in a way that would make it more difficult.  I don't take any particular credit or blame for being like this -- I didn't make a conscious effort to develop that way, and I don't think it makes me a "better person," though my wife and I both like the results.  If I get any credit at all, it's for being self-aware enough to know that's how it is with me, and behaving accordingly. 

[birdless]

Hello, all. I've been listening to EP for a while now, but finally took the time to find the forum! Not because I found this story particularly compelling, but just because I had the time. Anyway, back to topic:

This was far from the best but far from the worst episode I've heard. I didn't like the main character, which is not a flaw, necessarily, but I just usually like stories better where I like the main character... someone I can identify with. As much as I understand wanting to provide for your family and willing to make sacrifices to do so, there's more to family than just providing money for them.

But did anyone else find the "enhancements" he underwent to be extremely disturbing?? I found the thought of them immensely painful. And, hey, we're here because we like SF and so suspension of disbelief is routine, but I had to suspend disbelief on a level I'm uncomfortable with to imagine that 1) he could have survived those surgeries over the course of, what was it? 6 months? and 2) that they were reversible. I think I would have found the story more compelling if it had taken the turn where reversing the procedures were too traumatic for his body to handle. Enh... I still wouldn't have like it that much—that ending's just depressing.

[Darwinist]

This story reminded me of a Fred Pohl book called Man Plus. Similar theme but the guy is physically engineered to live on Mars.  I have it but haven't read it yet but its sitting on the shelf.  It won the Nebula in 1976.

[gelee]

...everything built into the story that touched on the narrator's interaction with others involved some kind of miscommunication.

Good job picking up on the (mis)communication theme, TAD.  It was kind of lost on me on first listen, partly because I was listening in my car, and I need to use one of those broadcast-ipod-over-radio-frequency gizmos.  And that night the channel had an uncommon amount of static, so there were communication issues on my end as well.  On reflection, I think the communication problems and self isolation were what the story was really about.  The narrator can't get along well with people, so he gives up and turns himself into something else.  A metaphor really, for retreating into your own head rather than doing the hard work of getting along well with others.

I agree the science was pretty dubious, making all these advancements in body modifications at once, and being able to undo them (in theory) at that.  And there were little things that kept throwing me out of the story... when he first wakes up he knows the shape of his tank without seeing it, but later we're told he didn't have the sonar yet.  As hard SF this story is pretty lacking.  As metaphor it was okay, but needed some polish.

Well put.  I agree on all points.  I think the protag was essentially a very selfish person.  His decision to undertake the assignment was a selfish one, though he tried to rationalize that he was doing it for the good of his family.  He sought to escape from the demands of being a father and a husband, and his percieved failings in those roles.  As as SEAL, he felt competant and sure of himself.  As a provider and father...not so much.  When his physical absence finally caught up with his emotional absence, his family went looking elsewhere for the needs he was not providing for.  In the end, he saw an oppurtunity to make a break for it and achieve the escape he had been looking for all along.  By faking his own death, he was able to salve his conscience with the knowledge that his life insurance policy would leave his family financially well off.

[jrderego]

This story reminded me of a Fred Pohl book called Man Plus. Similar theme but the guy is physically engineered to live on Mars.  I have it but haven't read it yet but its sitting on the shelf.  It won the Nebula in 1976.

That was a fun book! I read it and the sequel, Mars Plus ten or so years ago. Man Plus was more engaging on a pure science fiction level, but Mars Plus was much more exciting.

[CGFxColONeill]

Hello, all. I've been listening to EP for a while now, but finally took the time to find the forum! Not because I found this story particularly compelling, but just because I had the time. Anyway, back to topic:

welcome to the forum

Steve glad to hear everything is ok
I was not to worried about it in the sense that you had said that it was when you recorded the other story ( cant think of the name of it off the top of my head)  and that story was a while back but still I am glad things are headed in the right direction
let us know if we can help you out

[DKT]

I ended up enjoying this story much more than I thought I would.  I can't say why it started off funny (not the underwater thing, because I do think that's an under-used SF setting) -- I think because it took a while to get going and there didn't seem to be much conflict.  In the end, I thought the author did a pretty good job of making me sympathize more with a character than I actually wanted to.

[rookslide]

I'm glad to hear all is improving Steve.

As far as the story is concerned, not my favorite but entertaining. I think one of the big turn-offs to this story is the main character POV. What I mean by this is that most stories are written through the eyes of at least second generation characters to the setting. (If not further removed.) It seems difficult to appreciate the motivations and personality types that are often pioneers of the new. Technological sub-points can always be criticized if the story is difficult to relate to, they are easily seen as filler for what seems to be a weak story.

Overall I didn't care for it but I prefer a bit less subtly to the action and more character development. It felt like those were lacking to me. But then I'm not much of a critic really. I'm just impressed with the thoughts the story has provoked in me which really aren't related to the story. That's what I like a lot, thought provoking and entertaining stories. Thanks again Steve, any story you put out there I'll give a listen to.

[Listener]

Greydancer did an excellent read of this story.

I think the FX on the kids' voices and Andrea's voice was a little too much; I only half-understood Andrea at the best of times.

The story did wind itself up a little too fast, and I do feel a BIT cheated by the ending, how he just up and decides to swim off.  He gives up WAY too easily.

The technology and the idea of modding a human to live in the ocean, and the level of precision with which the author did it, was very cool.

The glimpse at the 10-years-in-the-future future was plausible but it almost felt, in places, like the author was making a point rather than telling a story.

The story had more good than bad.  I enjoyed it.  And Steve's point about how there's not enough undersea SF... well... I may have a little something for you in a few weeks...

[eytanz]

Greydancer did an excellent read of this story.

I think the FX on the kids' voices and Andrea's voice was a little too much; I only half-understood Andrea at the best of times.

The story did wind itself up a little too fast, and I do feel a BIT cheated by the ending, how he just up and decides to swim off.  He gives up WAY too easily.

I really don't think "giving up" is what he did. I felt that the whole story was about him trying to get away from his wife and kids, and that he was just looking for an opportunity to do so. His wife's infidelity gave him some internal justification, but my impression was that that just hastened the inevitable, and the attack was the prefect cover.

[Kurt Faler]

I think the FX on the kids' voices and Andrea's voice was a little too much; I only half-understood Andrea at the best of times.

Thats pretty much the only important thing about the story I have to say. Did I love it? No. Did I hate it? No. Considering the past few weeks of great stories, it was inevitable that one would not be as strong. So far this years lineup has been, taken as a whole, well above average.

[DKT]

Greydancer did an excellent read of this story.

I think the FX on the kids' voices and Andrea's voice was a little too much; I only half-understood Andrea at the best of times.

The story did wind itself up a little too fast, and I do feel a BIT cheated by the ending, how he just up and decides to swim off.  He gives up WAY too easily.

I really don't think "giving up" is what he did. I felt that the whole story was about him trying to get away from his wife and kids, and that he was just looking for an opportunity to do so. His wife's infidelity gave him some internal justification, but my impression was that that just hastened the inevitable, and the attack was the prefect cover.

I understand why you think that, but it also felt like he gave up.  He did feel betrayed by his wife (and she surely felt betrayed by him) but he seemed to be trying to provide for his family, although the way he went about it only helped spur the disconnect between them.

I wasn't sure about Greydancer's reading at first, but it definitely grew on me as the story progressed, and I think in the end it added a lot to this story.

[sirana]

I much liked the world building and the environmental angle (especially the enviro-terrorism).
The ending fell totally flat for me and I couldn't get into the head of the main character.

I agree with bolddeciever, we don't have to like the character to make him interesting, but if we don't relate to him on any level the insight or entertainment that we can draw out of the story is severely limited.

For me personally the heros mindset in this piece was to different from my own in his view on relationship and family to feel a connection, I don't really get much out of diving and the deep sea and I have a rather strong dislike  of military characters in fiction (something that almost made me stop watching Battlestar Gallactica).

Overall a decent story with a very unsatisfying ending.

[Kaa]

This one fell a bit flat with me as well. I had to listen to the first part twice because I kept getting confused about who and what Garcia was.  I think the ending was inevitable, for all the reasons others have stated before me, but it made me wonder just how long he thinks he's going to live out in the open ocean without a few dozen more clips for that flechette(?) gun of his.  He barely survived that one encounter with the squid and sharks.

[sirana]

Unlike TAD, I sympathized with the wife throughout, and felt glad at the ending because I felt she and the kids were happier without him.

Didn't the fact that she cheated on him make her unsympathetic for you? I wouldn't have minded if she had ended their relationship, everybody has the right to decide if a relationship is not going where you want it to, but she started another relationship without ending the previous one. That makes it pretty hard for me to feel sympathy for her.

[Biscuit]

I see the character as an interesting anti-hero. Usually the AH is flawed yet redeems himself at the end of the story - this one was the other way round. Started out with the best of intentions, then turned his back on the world. Very anti-Hollywood ending (and I like anti-hollywood endings!)

I also wondered how the MC was going to survive - even basics like feeding himself. Imagine him popping up on some Pacific Island, in the middle of the night, stealing from the locals.

Was anyone else seeing Patrick Duffy in this role

[CGFxColONeill]

It's going to be a long one.  If you think my intros are lengthy, you ain't seen nothing yet.  I consider this metacast a necessity because:

I think that most of your intros are not long enough lol looking forward to hearing what you have to say

[Listener]

For me personally the heros mindset in this piece was to different from my own in his view on relationship and family to feel a connection, I don't really get much out of diving and the deep sea and I have a rather strong dislike  of military characters in fiction (something that almost made me stop watching Battlestar Gallactica).

Well, I liked Garcia even though he was a military character.  I identify with the character because, as a former college teacher and an employer of part-time people, I've worked with ex-military folks who don't have the perfect post-military life.  My late uncle was ex-military (army; Desert Storm 1991) and he worked two jobs (FBI and Miami-Dade bomb squad).  But OTOH, my wife's friend WF was in the marines for ten years before finally saying "I'm done with this" and going to work in an industrial job that, honestly, doesn't pay all that well.

I think the thing that made him likeable despite the military background was that he was flawed and that he didn't have the perfect life after he got out of the Navy.  Also, the sense of wonder he continued to show was a very strong part of his character.

[Darwinist]

Was anyone else seeing Patrick Duffy in this role

Ah, yes.....the Man From Atlantis.  Either him or the Manimal guy.

[eytanz]

I understand why you think that, but it also felt like he gave up.  He did feel betrayed by his wife (and she surely felt betrayed by him) but he seemed to be trying to provide for his family, although the way he went about it only helped spur the disconnect between them.

For me, his attempt to provide felt more like he was trying to fulfill an obligation to them before he frees himself, rather than as a real attempt to build a life together.

I don't think he's a horrible person, just a person who I really disliked.

Didn't the fact that she cheated on him make her unsympathetic for you? I wouldn't have minded if she had ended their relationship, everybody has the right to decide if a relationship is not going where you want it to, but she started another relationship without ending the previous one. That makes it pretty hard for me to feel sympathy for her.

Maybe I should have said I felt empathy towards her rather than sympathy; I felt like she was the wronged party, and that her affair was an attempt to strike back, rather than viewing things the other way round. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I found him a lot worse than her. This might have been colored by my impression that they both sort of knew he had ended the relationship when he had his operation, even if neither of them was ready to admit it out loud.

[AarrowOM]

This story reminded me of a Fred Pohl book called Man Plus. Similar theme but the guy is physically engineered to live on Mars.  I have it but haven't read it yet but its sitting on the shelf.  It won the Nebula in 1976.

I was thinking Clifford D. Simak's City was a closer fit, especially that one story wherein a man and his dog became Jovians and didn't want to return to being human.

[birdless]

Ah, yes..... Either him or the Manimal guy.

HA! Now there's a blast from the past! I can count on my right hand how many people I know that remember that show, and I'm missing a finger.

[Kaa]

...and I'm missing a finger.

I have to ask, given your name, if it's the finger I'm thinking it might be?