Author Topic: EP149: Union Dues: All That We Leave Behind  (Read 31935 times)

eytanz

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Reply #25 on: March 17, 2008, 08:03:10 AM
I haven't listened to this story yet, and have been avoiding the discussion, but I'd like to ask a question about the whole Union Dues series that will help me decide whether to listen:

So far, I've listened to the first two Union Dues stories. Both were very well-written but very, very bleak. Both stories seemed to be dedicated entirely to showing the problems having superpowers entail and how the Union is cynically exploiting both its own members and the non-heros in order to maintaing the status-quo and further its own goals. Both stories ended up making me feel a bit depressed.

My question is - do the later stories balance this out? Or am I missing something? Is it that because I did not grow up with superheroes, and indeed feel pretty baffled by the genre as a whole, I lack the proper context to get what I'm supposed to from these stories?



Hatton

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Reply #26 on: March 17, 2008, 03:08:23 PM
Union Dues is a series that I love to hear more from every time.  The fact that heroes are real people comes through well. 

This episode made me cry at the end.  Maybe it's the *human*ness (yes, i know that's not a word) of the situation or maybe it's because I've seen cancer take family members myself, but this one touched me at an emotional level.


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jrderego

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Reply #27 on: March 17, 2008, 03:25:47 PM
... My question is - do the later stories balance this out? Or am I missing something? Is it that because I did not grow up with superheroes, and indeed feel pretty baffled by the genre as a whole, I lack the proper context to get what I'm supposed to from these stories?

Well, any listening will be subjective and I can only tell you what I envisioned a I wrote them both individually and as a whole group of stories, but that probably won't help you much. I can tell you that each story addresses a specific moral/ethical issue and the consequences of those morals and ethics. Probably the least bleak of them is Cleanup in Aisle Five (at least to me) because the ending is hopeful. But it rides a bleak road to get to the end.

All About the Sponsors was meant to be "the happy Union Dues story" in that the main character wants to be a Union member. This story also doesn't explore the external politics of the world in which the characters live as much as the others. It's a more personal story about overcoming fear, fear of death, fear of losing a loved one, fear of bullies etc...

Don't know if that helps, but there you go.

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jrderego

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Reply #28 on: March 17, 2008, 03:28:43 PM
Union Dues is a series that I love to hear more from every time.  The fact that heroes are real people comes through well. 

This episode made me cry at the end.  Maybe it's the *human*ness (yes, i know that's not a word) of the situation or maybe it's because I've seen cancer take family members myself, but this one touched me at an emotional level.


I've lost every uncle and aunt on my father's side to cancer and all of my grandparents to it. So I know your pain. Part of that experience for me was what determined how Tim's mother was written.

"Happiness consists of getting enough sleep." Robert A. Heinlein
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gelee

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Reply #29 on: March 17, 2008, 06:30:56 PM
Ah, I always look forward to hearing (and reading) Jeff Derego's work.  The story adds more depth to the Megaton character, and I thought that Tim's situation was dealt with very well.  Good dialogue, and the action scene had great flow.  Great story all around.



Listener

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Reply #30 on: March 17, 2008, 07:10:05 PM
Ah, I always look forward to hearing (and reading) Jeff Derego's work.  The story adds more depth to the Megaton character, and I thought that Tim's situation was dealt with very well.  Good dialogue, and the action scene had great flow.  Great story all around.

I will agree... I think Megaton is probably the best character in UD.  In "Clowns" and also in this story, I really felt like the author wants good things to happen for Megaton, even though bad things have in the past and apparently continue to (killed a kid, associated with Jenny whatshername, stuck on evaluation duty).  I almost wonder if we're not building up to the oft-mentioned (by fans, not by the author) "anti-Union group" where Megaton is the linchpin...

Anyway, yay Megaton!

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Biscuit

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Reply #31 on: March 17, 2008, 08:33:29 PM
Superhero stories reminds me of the treadmill that pro-wrestling stories struggle to stay on - constantly having to find a compelling villain to keep the story moving. Sometimes there are only so many archetypes that one can stomach.

That's why I like the Union Dues stories. They're not fighting your bad guys - their villains are the atrophy of every day life, the political correctness of a world gone stupid. To me they are great symbols of the Little Guys struggle - well intentioned, but over burdened by politics and public perception.

PS: Loved the story :)


Grayven

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Reply #32 on: March 17, 2008, 10:58:55 PM
This was the best union dues to date.



contra

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Reply #33 on: March 18, 2008, 12:03:01 AM
I liked it.  Not my fav union dues story... but maybe because thats cause I dodn't read many comics as a kid.  Who knows.

I did feel that his reaction to the bully was unusual at best... though it did show his fear almost weak mindedness of the character.  And his mind did seem to suddenly become stronger when he tears off fingers doesn't feel anything.  But it was his super hero transition from being normal.  Allowing to get himself a new life and prove himself. So I forgive it.

This story felt like it was told because the Union Dues universe simply needed an origins story like this.  The point being that its not spectacular or an amazing thing he went through.

And I agree that it does feel like this universe is building up to something... I have no idea what though. 
Hope its awesome and me not just hoping >_>

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jodymonster

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Reply #34 on: March 18, 2008, 07:08:44 AM
Best UD story so far... or at least my favorite. 

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Tango Alpha Delta

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Reply #35 on: March 18, 2008, 10:44:30 AM
Speaking to the problem some folks are having with Tim's reaction to his bully:

I grew up in a fairly isolated area, thinking I was a superhero (not literally; just thinking of myself as the hero in every game, and assuming that other kids were weaker than I was because no one was around to teach me better).

When I did run across a bully, at first my reaction was "I need to be careful not to hurt him"... which proved to be silly when I actually lost my temper and really tried to whale on another kid in 5th grade.  After that experience, I decided that fighting was pointless, win or lose, and focused on being faster and more mentally agile than any bully.  Of course, this led to me calling the class bully "nipple-nose" and running for my life during each recess break, but I digress...

I can't remember the exact line early on, but Tim's reaction to Scott struck me as believable partly because there WAS the established fear of BEING hurt, and partly because as a kid I remember thinking "he's just a dumb bully, and I don't really want to hurt him".

But again, YMMV.  My odometer says "Another great Union Dues tale, Jeff!"

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bad_andy

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Reply #36 on: March 18, 2008, 11:09:44 PM
Thumbs up. :) Believable characters, internal conflict, road less traveled for a familiar premise, etc. Keep 'em coming.



Thermonuclearpenguin

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Reply #37 on: March 19, 2008, 06:30:58 AM
Hummmmmmmmm...... I'm not sure what to think of this episode. I believe that overtime this one will begin to sit better with me but right now it felt pretty formulaic. There have been several replies that stated there needed to be an origins story and that is what it seemed to be, a story written just because we needed to have one. I like the whole concept of UD and really like the dreariness of the daily trudge, I don't care if you do data input or lift immense weights and are impervious to attack, if that is what you have to do everyday and worse than that you are "required" to do it, it would become boring. That adds a little reality to the UD universe. But…….

I think that if Megaton had in the end felt for the kid, went back to the pyramid and reported there was nothing worth their time in the kid, that would have been a real step for Megaton. It seems that all the heroes dislike the Union but they only tacitly rebel, that needs to change. These are larger than life figures but they act as though they are drones. Anyway the story is what it is and was entertaining just not a wow'r.


Finding out that you still have more to learn, is the best reward of any lesson.


Thaurismunths

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Reply #38 on: March 19, 2008, 10:50:40 AM
I think that if Megaton had in the end felt for the kid, went back to the pyramid and reported there was nothing worth their time in the kid, that would have been a real step for Megaton. It seems that all the heroes dislike the Union but they only tacitly rebel, that needs to change. These are larger than life figures but they act as though they are drones. Anyway the story is what it is and was entertaining just not a wow'r.
First off, welcome to the forums and great name ThermoNuclearPenguin.
I'm not sure how many of the other UD stories you've listened to, but if Megaton had out-right lied about the kid's potential he probably would have been sent to the freezer for the rest of his life. As far as being drones, they kind of are. Part of indoctrination is being brainwashed and having the union charter implanted deep in their subconscious. It's hard to go against that kind of control.

How do you fight a bully that can un-make history?


Yossarian's grandson

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Reply #39 on: March 19, 2008, 11:08:46 AM
After listening to All That We Leave Behind, I listened to some of the older Union Dues stories.

Jeff, you've covered Union recruiting practices, their legal and political standing, and their control over their members.  When do we get to see what's happening with the anti-Union elements in the Union Dues world?  Is there an underground rail road for people who don't want to join the union?  If you ask me Union membership is more akin to slavery.

Loooove this idea. Jeff, please consider incorporating this somewhere along the line. :)



Me too, that's exactly what I was thinking during the story! I think this would really give more depth to the backdrop: secret supers, hide-outs, get-aways from the Union.....I can't wait!



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Reply #40 on: March 20, 2008, 03:20:58 AM
Am I the only one that actually tried calling 1 800 468 6466?  I was disappointed to find out it was just a phone sex line.  Then I pictured Megaton making fun of me later ("Oh man, you actually fell for that?  Nobody falls for that-  wait till the Luminaries hear about this one..." so I went ahead and gave them my credit card number thinking the sexline thing was just a cover for the Union.
Needless to say, "Debbie" wasn't very interested in the fact that lately I think I've been able to jump a little higher than normal...



deflective

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Reply #41 on: March 20, 2008, 04:43:42 AM
that explains why Debbie all "what!? another one?" when i called.
on the other hand, she did seem interested when i told her that i keep getting bigger.



Listener

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Reply #42 on: March 20, 2008, 12:22:17 PM
Am I the only one that actually tried calling 1 800 468 6466?  I was disappointed to find out it was just a phone sex line.  Then I pictured Megaton making fun of me later ("Oh man, you actually fell for that?  Nobody falls for that-  wait till the Luminaries hear about this one..." so I went ahead and gave them my credit card number thinking the sexline thing was just a cover for the Union.
Needless to say, "Debbie" wasn't very interested in the fact that lately I think I've been able to jump a little higher than normal...

I completely forgot to mention that I too called the number, and didn't get the "go" part at first, though I did get the "union" part.

I tend to call all the non-555 numbers I see in fiction.  I called Jack Bauer's cellphone last year on 24.  I called Mirage when Mr. Incredible got her card.  And so on.

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stePH

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Reply #43 on: March 20, 2008, 12:56:31 PM
This comic is almost more about people in extraordinary situations dealing with serious personal issues than it is about super powers... but aren't all comic books?

Only the good ones.

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Sanpaco

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Reply #44 on: March 20, 2008, 04:43:18 PM
Another great story.  I really felt for the kid at the end leaving his mom.  I can't imagine how lonely it must feel to have both of your parents die and leave you alone in the world, especially at a young age.  I have heard that no matter how old you are or how long you've been on your own, having a parent die is one of the hardest kinds of death to deal with.  When I think about how I will feel when my parents pass on, I don't doubt that this is true.



birdless

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Reply #45 on: March 20, 2008, 06:49:39 PM
This is only the second UD story I've heard, too. This one seemed a lot more stand-alone than Send in the Clowns. This one worked for me even taken out of a serial context. Maybe even more so viewed as a stand alone story. I don't know Mega's background, but I got enough inferences in the story where I didn't have to. I connected with Tim, but wondered who his friends were. From the glimpse into his character, he didn't seem antisocial to me (whereas Mega did). But yeah, it's a limited amount of words, so what can you do?

All in all, I enjoyed this story quite a bit. It may not be completely new territory, but it was still well-written.

The one thing that kept distracting me, though, was the idea of comic books in a world that actually has super heroes in it. It just seems... I dunno... like that whole genre of fiction would be completely different (if not non-existent).



Ocicat

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Reply #46 on: March 20, 2008, 09:46:33 PM
The one thing that kept distracting me, though, was the idea of comic books in a world that actually has super heroes in it. It just seems... I dunno... like that whole genre of fiction would be completely different (if not non-existent).

That's an interesting point, and one I've personally thought about.  You see, I read a lot of comics, and the main superhero universes both have superhero comics in them.  Whereas, in Watchmen, people read comics about pirates.  In general, that seems more realistic.

But in the UD world, the comics do seem to make sense.  They're straight up propaganda.  And presumably the *idea* of superheros and Superhero comics existed before people started actually getting powers.

The fact is, the Union members *aren't superheroes*.  They are superpowered people.  And they want you to be okay with that, so they invoke the idea of Superman - a nice comfortable idea that everyone has been used to since childhood.  Thus the union publishes comics about it's members.  Comics with supervillans and everything else we expect from superhero comics.  When the reality is quite different...



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Reply #47 on: March 21, 2008, 05:15:15 AM
I tend to call all the non-555 numbers I see in fiction.  I called Jack Bauer's cellphone last year on 24.  I called Mirage when Mr. Incredible got her card.  And so on.
What did Bauer's cell number give you?
I think there was a CTU number given too.

anyways...
As with all of the other Union Dues, I straight up LOVED it!  It's nice to see familiar characters, and the perspective of the story this time was interesting.  I love these stories, keep em coming Lord DeRego!

I'd like to hear my options, so I could weigh them, what do you say?
Five pounds?  Six pounds? Seven pounds?


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Reply #48 on: March 21, 2008, 07:50:41 AM
keep em coming Lord DeRego!

Officially he is St. Jeff of TCoRN.



sirana

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Reply #49 on: March 24, 2008, 08:47:55 PM
My favorite UD story since "Off White Lies", maybe even since "Iron Bars and the Glass Jaw".
Really liked the Coward-turns-Superstrong idea and I thought his relationship to his mother was layed out very nicely. I think I enjoyed the fact that this was a more classical, more comic-book-like story than the others in the series.

Keep 'em coming, Jeffrey... keep 'em coming.