Author Topic: EP150: This, My Body  (Read 45833 times)

Faldor

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Reply #25 on: March 27, 2008, 09:30:58 PM
Yeah, I really liked this one. The flavouring idea was quite original and although the mention of the daughter gave us an idea of where it was heading, it didn't quite go that way.



Tango Alpha Delta

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Reply #26 on: March 28, 2008, 04:24:09 AM

Someday, I'd be interested in hearing what "taking organized faith to its logical extremes" means. I'm having trouble understanding this statement (maybe (probably) just because I'm tired at the moment). This isn't the thread for that discussion, though, and I'm perfectly okay with a PM.

I tend to cause trouble by trying to economize words... but I'll risk it anyway, because I'm tired, too.  (And if anyone wants to carry this off on a tangent, we should let Russell or another moderator know so we can have it split off.)

Basically, it doesn't seem to matter what anyone states as their belief, there is always someone willing to exaggerate that belief into a "logical extreme", usually in an attempt to show why that belief is absurd or to discredit the believer.  In this story, the basic idea of "maybe we should try THIS way to reach God" was through over-indulgence; the author took it to the extreme to show that even though the intention was to find God, all that was accomplished was another brutally oppressive system was created that enriched some, exploited others, and left everyone generally feeling like something the cat dragged in.

In the real world, I often hear (from my family back home) the line "we want to live according to a strict, literal interpretation of the Bible".  It sounds great to them, until they realize they would have to give up pork and shellfish and would have to stone most of the people they know (including me) to death.  Facing that logical extreme, they tend to back down from their above-quoted line... though they seem pretty intent on getting other people to live according to their strict, literal interpretations sometimes.

And yes, we're going to visit them this summer, so I'm probably thinking too much about it.  :)

Edit: I unquoted myself.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 12:05:51 AM by Tango Alpha Delta »

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iankoenig

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Reply #27 on: March 28, 2008, 08:37:12 PM
As was pointed out by others, this servitude is slavery and rape, and clearly not Antonio's choice, but the Order seems to have rationalized that because they took him in and "gave him training and therapy" that this is some great favor, and something that he would have chosen to do.

Overall I enjoyed the story from just an "interesting thought" perspective of gene therapy modifying the various glands to produce an aphrodisiac.  The social implications are also unique as though it might be slavery and rape and forced servitude etc.   This only comes because this is your view of the definition of what's right and wrong.  One of the things I enjoy about SF is the general willingness to look beyond one's current view of the universe and how its is defined and turn that on its head.   

This is slavery and rape to us.   To them it is a way for a family to get out of debt and destruction in a painful though respectful way.   Antonio did have the opportunity to get out of his contract so society there does not apparently discriminate per example of the Chef once the Assininato (sp?) leaves their contract.   


My main take is this is a story about a kid growing up and not seeing how good he has it.   Yes the Countessa was extremely tiring and wore him out.   He couldn't see the good he was doing for her and just couldn't look past the fact that he did have a purpose.   It just wasn't what he wanted.    It screams of a story about someone who is at the top of their profession and can't be happy about what they have.   He's free now though by destroying his natural gifts. 

As I was talking to my Significant Other about this story and her response was... "What?  Too much sex for a man.. this must be Sci Fi."

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Tango Alpha Delta

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Reply #28 on: March 29, 2008, 12:20:31 AM
As was pointed out by others, this servitude is slavery and rape, and clearly not Antonio's choice, but the Order seems to have rationalized that because they took him in and "gave him training and therapy" that this is some great favor, and something that he would have chosen to do.

....  This only comes because this is your view of the definition of what's right and wrong.  One of the things I enjoy about SF is the general willingness to look beyond one's current view of the universe and how its is defined and turn that on its head.   

This is slavery and rape to us.   To them it is a way for a family to get out of debt and destruction in a painful though respectful way. 

I don't think of myself as a "moral absolutist", but ...

Webster's #1 definition for the verb rape is: "to seize and take away by force", and for Slave it is: "a person held in servitude as the chattel of another."

So, it IS a case of slavery and rape.  I guess what you're saying is "sometimes those things aren't so bad"?  You could make a case for that, I suppose, but I think the story bears out my interpretation - namely, that rationalizing these behaviors in the name of religion doesn't prevent the spiritual damage that they cause.

As I was talking to my Significant Other about this story and her response was... "What?  Too much sex for a man.. this must be Sci Fi."

I believe it's possible... I keep volunteering to be in the control group, too!  ;)

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darth_schmoo

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Reply #29 on: March 29, 2008, 12:48:44 AM
Quote
I am the lover. I am the chef. I am the preterite priest.

I am the secret, unknowable ingredient. You may taste me a thousand times, but never hold my essence on your tongue or capture it in your memory.

I am the flavor of ecstasy. Taste me and know God.

I am the Colonel's secret recipe.

Did anyone else notice that there wasn't a single moment of humor in this piece?  It was relentlessly grim, and the main character seemed bored and detached, even when he was supposed to be feeling the first flush of love or cowering in fear.   I'm not sure how you would write such a character without transferring that bored detachment onto the reader.

Cut the story to thirty minutes and throw in some gratuitous jello wrestling.




Heradel

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Reply #30 on: March 29, 2008, 01:01:57 AM
As I was talking to my Significant Other about this story and her response was... "What?  Too much sex for a man.. this must be Sci Fi."

I believe it's possible... I keep volunteering to be in the control group, too!  ;)

Dude — the control group's the one with the normal level of whatever it is. The Experimental group on the other hand...
Quote
I am the lover. I am the chef. I am the preterite priest.

I am the secret, unknowable ingredient. You may taste me a thousand times, but never hold my essence on your tongue or capture it in your memory.

I am the flavor of ecstasy. Taste me and know God.

I am the Colonel's secret recipe.

Did anyone else notice that there wasn't a single moment of humor in this piece?  It was relentlessly grim, and the main character seemed bored and detached, even when he was supposed to be feeling the first flush of love or cowering in fear.   I'm not sure how you would write such a character without transferring that bored detachment onto the reader.

Cut the story to thirty minutes and throw in some gratuitous jello wrestling.

I didn't really feel a need for humor, and I'm not sure this narrator would have been capable of laughing. His emotions are certainly curtailed, and I don't think the emotionless can laugh in the same way someone else can. You can look at the evolutionary biological roots of laughter, which for the most part seems to have arisen as a "Don't worry, we're playing" signal. If you're emotionless like that and your only real pleasure is in properly preparing stuff but you have to do it or be killed/beaten/punished, I don't think you can really have fun. In fact, he spends so much time being bored I'm not sure he's even interested in anything else. 

I Twitter. I also occasionally blog on the Escape Pod blog, which if you're here you shouldn't have much trouble finding.


Roney

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Reply #31 on: March 29, 2008, 09:49:44 AM
Well... whatever I was expecting from Escape Pod this week, it wasn't that.

I agree to some extent with the comments that it was difficult to feel for any of the characters, but it was a necessary by-product of the story being told.  And I thought it was fascinating to put an affectless character in the middle of so much frenzied, desperate sensuality.  Antonio's inability to feel certain emotions and his consequent inability to empathize with the other characters drove the plot forward in a very natural way.  And in the end I did feel some pity for this child-man trying to take control of his own destiny, unaware that he was lacking the skills to survive outside the controlled environment of the temple.  I had a feeling that his character flaw was propelling the story towards a tragic end so I was relieved when it ended with some hope for Antonio's future.

So, not as much fun as a "typical" Escape Pod story (is there such a thing?) but I think the images from this one will stay with me longer than most, partly because the core ingredient of "chef as seasoning" is just so tasty.  I have no objection to EP occasionally bending the rules for rewarding fare like this -- please keep on surprising us!



Chodon

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Reply #32 on: March 29, 2008, 01:08:44 PM
More robots, less boners please.

Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.


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Reply #33 on: March 29, 2008, 10:29:07 PM
More robots, less boners please.

What about robots with boners?



Chodon

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Reply #34 on: March 29, 2008, 11:12:50 PM
More robots, less boners please.
What about robots with boners?
Hmm...excellent question.  I don't think it's called a boner on a robot (no bones).  Although a real boner doesn't either, so I'm at a loss.

Those who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserve neither.


ajames

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Reply #35 on: March 29, 2008, 11:22:56 PM
Gah, I was ignoring this whole thread but I had to look into this. Some mammals actually do have a penile bone called a baculum, but that has nothing to do with the etymology of the word, apparantly. This link wasn't terribly illuminating, but gave me more information than I had before I found it.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=boner



stePH

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Reply #36 on: March 30, 2008, 05:54:10 AM
More robots, less boners please.

What about robots with boners?

I think there was one of those in Millennium (the John Varley novel).  Its name was Sherman.

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cryptocrat

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Reply #37 on: March 30, 2008, 12:21:14 PM

This is the first EP episode that I didn't finish (to put in context, I have listened to about 50% of EP so far).

I didn't find the plot and character development strong enough to overcome the squick factor of the body eating sex.  Since every listener will have a different squick threshold this is an extreme YMMV moment.




Tango Alpha Delta

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Reply #38 on: March 30, 2008, 12:51:38 PM

This is the first EP episode that I didn't finish (to put in context, I have listened to about 50% of EP so far).

I didn't find the plot and character development strong enough to overcome the squick factor of the body eating sex.  Since every listener will have a different squick threshold this is an extreme YMMV moment.



I think that would have bothered me if they had been eating him, instead of just tasting him.  If he'd been given some kind of re-growing gene mod to allow that, then I would have been pushed more toward your "squick" factor.

But, as you say, that's a YMMV kinda thing.

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asqwasqw

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Reply #39 on: March 30, 2008, 08:50:27 PM
ok, well i liked the story, and i think that the story was... rightfuly grim?
i dont know, but the story was really like a memoir, something where you follow the person for a part of their life
the themes were intresting, and contrary so what some others said, i think that the hour was needed for character devleopment, and then change, so i liked it
its not the usual escapepod for sure, but not a bad one i think either



stePH

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Reply #40 on: March 31, 2008, 02:55:07 PM


I think that would have bothered me if they had been eating him, instead of just tasting him.  If he'd been given some kind of re-growing gene mod to allow that, then I would have been pushed more toward your "squick" factor.

The episode "Eat Me" from the third season of Farscape comes to mind.

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JoeFitz

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Reply #41 on: April 05, 2008, 08:28:35 PM
Such a long, grim story with such spice (sorry). I loved the daughter's reaction and though disturbed by the beating, I was impressed that it was carried out. A living sex toy might be an acceptable compromise with a spouse in some circles, it would seem pretty icky to have your child share that toy. The religious journeys were an interesting side to the story that might have been added to raise the story above its bodice ripper profundity, but it seemed well developed. The process of genetic basting, if you'll forgive me, seemed bizarre, as did the process of cooking with your body.

I agree with comments above that knowing the chef was a "retired" Assasonier was disappointing. Maybe if a relative (like his father who gave him the cook book) had been it would have been okay.

I agree also that my reaction to the story would have been different if the main character was a woman.



ScottC

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Reply #42 on: April 08, 2008, 06:38:07 PM
While I enjoyed the sensousness of the peice, the 'you better not mess with my daughter' plot point couldn't have been more obvious if Steve cranked that bit to 11.  Part of me was anticipating the enventual meeting and downfall. 



Chivalrybean

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Reply #43 on: April 18, 2008, 04:34:28 AM
Like Pressure, I found the distortion to human anatomy strangely disturbing. Both surprised me at the amount they made me uncomfortable. But as for the rest of the story, I just couldn't get into it. I lost interest pretty early on, fast-forwarded to the comments only to discover there were none. I did like Steve's commentary on Clarke, though, even though I can't say I've ever read anything by him (I usually say I like to read fantasy and watch sci-fi… about the only SF I've read that I got as absorbed as fantasy was the Dune series).

Yes, it reminded me of Pressure too, and made me wonder, which is more far-fetched, a man-fish, or a man-dish?

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wintermute

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Reply #44 on: April 18, 2008, 12:11:16 PM
Like Pressure, I found the distortion to human anatomy strangely disturbing. Both surprised me at the amount they made me uncomfortable. But as for the rest of the story, I just couldn't get into it. I lost interest pretty early on, fast-forwarded to the comments only to discover there were none. I did like Steve's commentary on Clarke, though, even though I can't say I've ever read anything by him (I usually say I like to read fantasy and watch sci-fi… about the only SF I've read that I got as absorbed as fantasy was the Dune series).

Yes, it reminded me of Pressure too, and made me wonder, which is more far-fetched, a man-fish, or a man-dish?

Edible people are nothing new. Example:

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stePH

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Reply #45 on: April 18, 2008, 02:41:48 PM
Edible people are nothing new. Example:


Is that a cellular peptide cake with mint frosting?

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wintermute

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Reply #46 on: April 18, 2008, 03:21:43 PM
Is that a cellular peptide cake with mint frosting?
I loved Worf in that episode.

"With mint frosting!" is definitely his second best line after "Minsk!"

Science means that not all dreams can come true


Darwinist

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Reply #47 on: April 18, 2008, 03:34:20 PM
Is that a cellular peptide cake with mint frosting?
I loved Worf in that episode.

"With mint frosting!" is definitely his second best line after "Minsk!"

Don't forget his great line "I AM NOT a merry man!"

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.    -  Carl Sagan


stePH

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Reply #48 on: April 18, 2008, 04:46:19 PM
I just remembered it was the Troi cake that was cellular peptide with mint frosting.

"Nerdcore is like playing Halo while getting a blow-job from Hello Kitty."
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wintermute

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Reply #49 on: April 18, 2008, 05:20:46 PM
Is that a cellular peptide cake with mint frosting?
I loved Worf in that episode.

"With mint frosting!" is definitely his second best line after "Minsk!"

Don't forget his great line "I AM NOT a merry man!"
Yes, that is also in the top 5 :)

I eventually came to the conclusion that Worf had the finest sense of humour on the Enterprise, and was continually making up shit about Klingon culture, just to see what he could get people to believe. For example, when he's telling Wes about males reading love poetry to win mates, and is asked "what do the females do?", his response "They throw rocks" is hilarious.

I have many over-thought theories about Star Trek. For example, did you know that Jean-Luc Picard enrolled in Star Fleet under a false name?

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