Non-Fantasy Fantasy

[davedoty]

I've been reading the Song of Ice and Fire series, and it's set me thinking.  One of the things I like about it is the relatively low amount of magic and the fantastical in the series.  It's left me craving books that have the non-fantastical elements of high fantasy novels, but without the magic.

In other words, the world-building and imagined cultures of fantasy novels, but without any magic or other supernatural or fantastic element.  Basically, medieval historical fiction, but with made-up cultures and countries.

The only example I can think of are the Gormenghast novels, which have nothing overtly fantastical, although it's a little hard to imagine Gormenghast itself existing in a real world.

Can anyone recommend such a thing to me?

[qwints]

Have you tried actual medieval historical fiction? Umberto Eco is supposed to be pretty amazing even though I couldn't get through the one book of his I tried. I also liked Louis Lamour's novel set in that time.

[davedoty]

Yes, I've read and enjoyed several in that genre (including Umberto Eco's Name of the Rose, I assume the book you were referring to.)  But there's also something I like about the world-building aspect of fantasy literature, seeing the author craft and display their own little cultures and worlds.

Why do I want to see that combined with a non-fantastic setting?  I have no idea.  It doesn't necessarily make much sense, does it?  All I know is that the idea of it intrigues me, and I'd like to read some.

[Rachel Swirsky]

Guy Gavriel Kay does this very well. Lions of Al Rassan and the Sarantine Mosaic are beautiful, low-magic worlds.

[birdless]

Tad Williams' The Dragonbone Chair, The Stone of Farewell and To Green Angel Tower may work for you. There are some fantastical races and creatures, but I thought the world building was very cool. And the characters are some of the best I've ever read.

There is magic, I guess, but it's very intentionally subtle and not in-your-face. To me, it's hard to have fantasy without some element of the supernatural, but I haven't read Song of Fire and Ice, yet (it's waiting on my nightstand).

The books are epic length, and the first one ends in a cliffhanger, so... YMMV.

[Ocicat]

I really like historical fiction with a fantasy style.  My favorite author on that count is probably Steven Lawhead, who is currently doing a Robin Hood based (uh, sort of anyway) trillogy starting with Hood.  It's pretty good!  I also adored his Byzantium novel.  No magic, lots of adventure. 

I also just finished Gentlemen of the Road by Michael Chabon.  It reads just like a Fafard and the Grey Mouser story, but set on Earth and with no magic.

Sure, the worldbuilding of pure fantasy novels is great - but there are so many interesting cultures, places, and times on Earth... you can get just as lost in them and learn something as well.  Authors who make their own worlds just have it easy - they can steal whatever they want from history, but don't have to do research. 

As to Song of Ice and Fire - isn't it amazing how it reads like a low magic world?  It does... but when you try to describe it, well... There are dragons.  And zombies.  And giants.  Magical bonds with animals.  Prophetic dreams.  Even spellcasters of various sorts and powers.  And yet, it feels far more like medieval europe than, say a D&D game ever could.

[birdless]

Okay, now that i've made it through the first GRRM book (A Game of Thrones), i can definitely recommend Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. I think that Williams's world-building is better than Martin's, and his characters more vivid. I did thoroughly enjoy A Game of Thrones, but I'm going to have to say The Dragonbone Chair is better.

I've read the first several books of Lawhead's Pendragon Cycle. They were okay, but i just couldn't get that into them. I think part of it was that i was expecting more fantasy, and they are more like historical fiction.

[DKT]

I've read the first several books of Lawhead's Pendragon Cycle. They were okay, but i just couldn't get that into them. I think part of it was that i was expecting more fantasy, and they are more like historical fiction.

I liked Lawhead's Byzantium pretty well.  It's popcorn reading, but fun popcorn reading.  And I had the same reaction to Talesin (was that the first in the Pendragon books?) that you did.  It just seemed to be lacking some magic.  With Byzantium, however, I was never under any impression that it was going to be fantasy -- it always read much more like historical fiction. 

I read somewhere his new Robin Hood books were cool. 

[birdless]

I've read the first several books of Lawhead's Pendragon Cycle. They were okay, but i just couldn't get that into them. I think part of it was that i was expecting more fantasy, and they are more like historical fiction.

I liked Lawhead's Byzantium pretty well.  It's popcorn reading, but fun popcorn reading.  And I had the same reaction to Talesin (was that the first in the Pendragon books?) that you did.  It just seemed to be lacking some magic.  With Byzantium, however, I was never under any impression that it was going to be fantasy -- it always read much more like historical fiction. 

I read somewhere his new Robin Hood books were cool. 

Byzantium is new to me. I'm gonna have to check that out, especially relative to how much i loved the Twelve Byzantine Rulers podcast (which i highly recommend, btw). And, yes, Taliesin is the first book in the Pendragon Cycle. I thought for sure there would be magic in Book 2: Merlin. But notsomuch. The new cover art for his Pendragon books are a big improvement, though!

[Sandikal]

I'm probably just the opposite of you.  I love fantasy that brings magic and legend to ordinary life.  Examples would include just about anything by Charles de Lint and "Neverwhere" and "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman.  There just isn't enough of that kind of fantasy out there for my tastes.