Author Topic: EP158: Who’s Afraid of Wolf 359?  (Read 33797 times)

Russell Nash

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on: May 16, 2008, 12:14:01 PM
EP158: Who’s Afraid of Wolf 359?

2008 Hugo Nominee!

By Ken MacLeod.
Read by Stephen Eley.
First appeared in The New Space Opera, ed. Gardner Dozois & Jonathan Strahan.

When you’re as old as I am, you’ll find your memory’s not what it was. It’s not that you lose memories. That hasn’t happened to me or anyone else since the Paleocosmic Era, the Old Space Age, when people lived in caves on the Moon. My trouble is that I’ve gained memories, and I don’t know which of them are real. I was very casual about memory storage back then, I seem to recall. This could happen to you too, if you’re not careful. So be warned. Do as I say, not as I did.

Some of the tales about me contradict each other, or couldn’t possibly have happened, because that’s how I told them in the first place. Others I blame on the writers and tellers. They make things up. I’ve never done that. If I’ve told stories that couldn’t be true, it’s because that’s how I remember them.

Here’s one.


Rated R. Contains profanity, nudity, and in flagrante delicto.


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wintermute

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Reply #1 on: May 16, 2008, 12:33:16 PM
Not listened to the story yet, but I think the answer to the question posed by the title is "Benjamin Sisko".

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Russell Nash

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Reply #2 on: May 16, 2008, 12:58:40 PM



Darwinist

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Reply #3 on: May 16, 2008, 01:28:14 PM
I liked this one.   The idea of a rogue derelict settlement taking over was cool and the settings were neatly described.  The ending felt a bit rushed to me, though.  Probably my third favorite of the Hugos, ahead of last week's mystery.   

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.    -  Carl Sagan


qwints

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Reply #4 on: May 16, 2008, 02:01:21 PM
I really wanted him to be kicked into a well at the end.

Well written story, but the political system sounded like it was straight out of Heinlein. I liked the main character and the idea of a former minor government functionary taking over the universe was pretty fun. The arrival in the system was a bit slapstick for my taste. I guess I'm trying to say good, but not great.

The lamp flared and crackled . . .
And Nevyrazimov felt better.


Void Munashii

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Reply #5 on: May 16, 2008, 03:02:48 PM
  This was my favourite of the Hugo nominees. It reminded me a lot of the Stainless Steel Rat stories, as starting a war in that fashions sounds very much like something Jim DiGriz would do, save for all the loss of life.
  The only criticism I really have is that I did get a bit lost as to exactly what was going on at the end, but I guess that listening to it again while I am not driving will fix that.
  I really liked how the use of AI's taking over, and all of a world's water freezing over (ice-nine?) were used as background events as opposed to being the main focus of the story. I am definitely interested in reading more of MacLeod's work now.

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Jhite

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Reply #6 on: May 16, 2008, 03:50:07 PM
This story was ummm ok!

The idea of a rouge world coming back and taking over was pretty interesting.  It reminded me a bit of the foundation series.  I personally think that with time dilation of near light travel that this is the kind of thing that could happen if you spread out too much.  Humans being the war like people that we are, I can see it happening to us.

I have to agree with the fact that the landing seemed kind of slapstick.  There is nothing wrong with that kind of writing but I found it a bit distracting. 

The worst part of the story for me, and well the author went as far as to point it out for everyone, was that there was so much more story to tell.  I don't think that it belonged in the confines of this piece, the idea that what you don't write is as important as what you don't, but I think it would be great if there were  more written in this universe.  It seemed fascinating to me.  On that note I am a sucker for grand scale views of the future.    See Clarke, Herbert, Roddenberry, Asimov and you will find some of my favorite authors.

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ScottC

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Reply #7 on: May 16, 2008, 06:17:40 PM
Listening to this, I felt that I was missing a lot of the back story.  With some stories, that's OK.  It can be fun working out how society and history are in a story.  This one, not so much. 

For instance, the main character's revulsion when they say 'Earth'.  Without more information, it has no impact.  Sometimes, you need context. 



Darwinist

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Reply #8 on: May 16, 2008, 07:04:53 PM

For instance, the main character's revulsion when they say 'Earth'.  Without more information, it has no impact.  Sometimes, you need context. 

Good point.  I kept wondering about that, too.  They said Earth was flash frozen but I don't recall if they explained why or why it was an avoided word.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.    -  Carl Sagan


ZenMage

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Reply #9 on: May 16, 2008, 07:19:32 PM
Of the Hugo nominee stories, this one was the best.  Not a great story but good.  I am eagerly looking forward to the "normal" story stream coming back.  If these are the Hugo nominee's I think they need to start widening the search.



qwints

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Reply #10 on: May 16, 2008, 08:41:21 PM

For instance, the main character's revulsion when they say 'Earth'.  Without more information, it has no impact.  Sometimes, you need context. 

Good point.  I kept wondering about that, too.  They said Earth was flash frozen but I don't recall if they explained why or why it was an avoided word.

Maybe the story is set in the Millennium after tomorrow...

The lamp flared and crackled . . .
And Nevyrazimov felt better.


Chivalrybean

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Reply #11 on: May 16, 2008, 09:05:53 PM
Good points: The humor, the story was interesting, and I laughed when Steve narrated the bit as if talking what drinking coffee from a dispenser.

Bad point: The ending was rushed... it could have done with a slower pace at the ending so I had time to process it.

Overall: It started out being more favorive than the Hugo story about the robotic jewler on the beach (I forget the title), but after the end, I ended up not liking it as much, so the robot one is still my favorite.

Format comment: I liked it better when Steve talked more at the beginning and then more at the end. It might not be related, but I think he talks more that way, and he is someone interesting to listen too.

The Space Turtle - News that didn't happen, stories to entertain.


DKT

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Reply #12 on: May 16, 2008, 10:25:33 PM
I think I'm going to have to listen to this one again.  I liked it, but for some reason, I wasn't able to focus too well. 

But I wanted to pipe up about the format comment.  I'm good either way you go, really, but I have never had a problem with the intros here.  In fact, I'd go as far to say as there something that immediately hooked me into the podcast initially.  I appreciate hearing what Steve has to say.  It's different than some of the Podcastle intros that have frustrated me a bit because Steve isn't telling me what the story is about, or important things to note about the setting/author before the story begins.  (If it sounds like I'm being harsh, that's not what I intend.  I love Podcastle already, and I think what Rachel is doing over there is great.  I just don't think the intros have hit their stride yet.)  When Steve does an intro on Escape Pod, I feel like I'm listening to a friend tell me about something interesting and, oh, by the way, there's this really cool story that kind of ties into it.  Or, in the case of geek dad intros, sometimes doesn't tie into it  ;)

That said, I think the way Alasdair does the Pseudopod outros is perfect for Pseudopod, and perfect for Alasdair. 


Chivalrybean

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Reply #13 on: May 16, 2008, 10:32:03 PM
I think I'm going to have to listen to this one again.  I liked it, but for some reason, I wasn't able to focus too well.  

I had that problem too, but I had chalked it up to listening while working my tedious job, but then, if something is interesting enough, I stay focused. The other day while listening to The Rookie by Scott Sigler, a whole 30 minutes went by and I hadn't eaven realised I had gone through a whole tray of parts! So, maybe this story did lose my interest here and there because if the way the story was told (not spoken, the story itself).

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Nobilis

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Reply #14 on: May 16, 2008, 10:32:26 PM
I felt that this story was less about people than it was about politics.  As such, it mostly bored me.



Void Munashii

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Reply #15 on: May 17, 2008, 12:22:22 AM
I think I'm going to have to listen to this one again.  I liked it, but for some reason, I wasn't able to focus too well. 

  Oh good, so it's not just me. I thought it was just a combination of the fact that I was driving, and that I am a dimwit that made me get lost.

"Mallville - A Journal of the Zombie Apocalypse"
http://mallvillestory.blogspot.com


DKT

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Reply #16 on: May 17, 2008, 02:44:40 AM
It's funny -- usually I listen to Escape Pod when I'm driving and I seem to be able to focus better on the stories that way (than when I'm working at my desk).  But this one, for some reason, I need another listen.

I liked what I got, and it definitely made me want to read more of the author.  But I need to try and listen again, give it all a little more focus.


Jacob from Texas

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Reply #17 on: May 17, 2008, 07:44:28 PM
Yeah, a Poly-friendly story…hmmm drinking from nipple(s)…yeah more Jonathan Coulton…

Over all this story left my board-Neapolitan complex, feeling well hungry (hmmm nipples)

Thanks Steve, and please keep the Geek-Dad altro, if not intro.
Jacob from Texas



JoeFitz

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Reply #18 on: May 17, 2008, 10:56:21 PM
This reminded me immediately of Heinlein and then Foundation. That was unfortunate, because I really wanted to like this story and it just doesn't hold a candle to the classics.

While I enjoyed the description of the cryogenic travel, I thought the 'nipple incident' was just odd.

The dialog with the ship's AI was particularly disappointing.




CoachPaul

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Reply #19 on: May 18, 2008, 01:54:47 AM
I liked this story, it almost sounds like at the end that there either already is, or will be more stories about the main character, and I would surely read/listen to them.  I agree with the earlier posters, the main character did have that "Slippery Jim" feel to him.

CP



Hatton

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Reply #20 on: May 18, 2008, 03:25:52 AM
Of the Hugos, I liked this one the least - too jumpy, too clean and too unpredictable.  I understand that this is supposed to be "short" but there were a lot of different times when I wanted to hear more detail, understand more of the concept than the usage.

And Steve, feel free to brag.

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eytanz

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Reply #21 on: May 18, 2008, 08:48:45 AM
I enjoyed this story a lot, though I agree with the sentiment above about the backstory feeling incomplete, and about the shifts in tone (it started up as slapstick, because a courtroom farce, then space opera, then slapstick again in the landing, then more serious again) - I've criticised stories before as sounding like the beginning or the ending of a longer story, but this one was more like a condensed longer story. In a novel, with time for character development and properly paced exposition, then the tone shifts could have been more organic as well. Here it just felt like a lot was crammed into a small space.

I also just failed to understand some basic plot points - if he could convert the long tube into a gun, why couldn't other civilisations do the same and strike back? And more importantly - if he was really from Earth, and had lived there before the cataclysm, how come he found landing on a planet so strange? I mean, it's been a long time, but he should have thought "wow, I didn't see an ocean since my childhood", not "I really couldn't believe it but there was a huge expanse of water nearby".

But overall I did like the story.

And I'd like to echo DKT's comments - EP's intros never bothered me, and this became very clear to me when I started hearing Podcastle's intros which do bother me. Steve has always been careful not to spoil stories and I always enjoy what he says, so I don't care if it comes before or after stories. In Podcastle, I want to hear what Rachel says but I want to hear it after the story, not before.



Roland

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Reply #22 on: May 18, 2008, 08:50:06 AM
I agree with some of the previous replies, while it was enjoyable in the main, the end was very rushed and lots of details would benefit from being expanded on.
Tideline is still my favourite of the Hugos.


Yossarian's grandson

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Reply #23 on: May 19, 2008, 07:59:49 AM

For instance, the main character's revulsion when they say 'Earth'.  Without more information, it has no impact.  Sometimes, you need context. 

Good point.  I kept wondering about that, too.  They said Earth was flash frozen but I don't recall if they explained why or why it was an avoided word.

Maybe the story is set in the Millennium after tomorrow...

What I got from the story was that 'Earth' represented everything that was bad about governments, national states and the arbitrary aggression that goes with them. Also, we destroyed the planet (and nearly the entire race) by unbalancing the climate. Humanity has since rejected that way of life (what we got in exchange is a bit vague, but more about that later) and over the course of time even the mention of the name Earth has become taboo.

I liked this story best of all the Hugo nominees. It has some weak points, the main of which for me were the switching between different tones (serious, humoristic) in a very short space of time and, as mentioned, the fact that the ending felt rushed and incomplete. I had no problem with the other worlds being conquered so easily. After all, the premise of the story is that, along with abandoning Earth, mankind has also abandoned the way of life that I described above.

That being said, this is the first EP episode I listened to twice (yes, me too). Because after the first listen, I felt like I hadn't picked up on half of all the world building going on in the background. The second listen seems to have cleared up some of that.

I really like the grand scope of this story. Man hasn't just reached out for the stars, but has also shed it's old forms of government and society. This feels real to me.

Too many SF pieces lean heavily on some kind of instant communication across the galaxy, to maintain unity between all the places where man has settled. But what if we don't discover some way to transmit fast over such distances? Humanity would drift apart and we would become alien to each other. I think this story captured this idea well.

Also, does anyone else sense some of the same themes as in Frank Herberts Dune? Mankind spread among the stars, withdrawn into new, semi-isolated communities. An old race, vital like primitive man used to be (at least in the eyes of future man) is unleashed by an outsider and proceeds to conquer the galaxy. There are at least a few similarities.

PS: about the intro/outro thing, how 'bout we give it a couple of episodes and then make up our minds?

 



wintermute

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Reply #24 on: May 19, 2008, 12:41:39 PM
I liked the story overall, though I think it would have done better as a novel; something with more room for backstory and texture. Are there any more stories set in this world?

One question I do have, though, is about the Long Tubes. It seems to be pretty baldly stated that both Sol and Wolf 359 have precisely one Long Tube each, which means that each of those systems can only be connected to a single system. And you surely can't re-aim a Long Tube, because if you throw people at relativistic speed at another solar system, you need to be pretty confident that the breaking mechanism is going to be exactly in place in 10 or 50 years. So each connection is going to need its own dedicated Long Tube.

One Long Tube each isn't impossible, if these two worlds are on the extreme periphery of colonised space, which seems reasonable for Wolf 359, but not for Sol. But it seemed implicit that every star system had exactly one Long Tube, and as they need to be deployed in matched pairs (acceleration and deceleration for each trip), that means that travel to more than one other star is impossible.

Did I misinterpret this? I did enjoy the story, but that detail just sounds like something that should have been caught before the final draft. A simple insertion of the neighbouring system using their Long Tube #4 to launch the relatavistic weapons would have done the job easily enough.

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