Author Topic: EP161: Alien Promises  (Read 32961 times)

OsamaBinLondon

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Reply #25 on: June 10, 2008, 01:45:09 PM
It wasn't that I didn't like this story, but more it was so savagely mediocre I'm surprised it made it past the Eley suitability screening process.  Ditto on the parable element Corydon!



Corydon

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Reply #26 on: June 10, 2008, 05:11:14 PM
That was one of the things I purposefully overlooked because of the intended audience -- the author wrote it for a YA audience, so it had the YA sensibilities.  If, as a YA, you wouldn't have liked the story, I'm fine with that.  But as an adult reading a YA story, although I know great YA fiction doesn't NEED such things (witness "The Golden Compass" and the first three or so Harry Potters), a lot of YA still has the Valuable Lesson and I just let it pass.

Yeah, I recognize that lots of YA fiction features Important Messages.  But I see that as a weakness, and a characteristic of bad YA-- kids don't need to be preached to any more than adults do-- so I'm not willing to let it pass.

Really, I thought that eytanz's description was spot-on, and made me laugh:

Quote
I think the aliens were part of the Valuable-Lesson fleet of the Interstellar Alliance of Sentient Races and Thin Metaphors, or something like that. They probably never planned to take anyone with them, they just pop around the galaxy teaching socially awkward teenagers that they are not alone.

But he's more generous than I am...



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Reply #27 on: June 10, 2008, 07:11:58 PM
This is exactly the kind of story that I love.  Not only was it well written, it was exceptionally read by Anna.  Her reading reminded me strongly of the audio version of The Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold. Not the story, just the reading.  Brava.

This story touched a very deep place in me.  I'm another one who used to look up at the night sky and...I don't think I ever really articulated, even to myself, that I wanted to be among the stars, but I did.  I still do.  Like Steve, I'd make the same promise today.

As an aside, I think labeling stories as "YA" does them a disservice when there are people who react with that typical knee-jerk reaction to it.  For instance, I read Lois Lowry's The Giver without knowing it was a YA story, and it remains one of my favorite books I've read in the last five years.  I think adults can get a lot out of stories even if they're aimed at a younger audience, and this story shows that quite well, as demonstrated by how many of us enjoyed it.

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Reply #28 on: June 10, 2008, 08:19:48 PM
This one was nice enough, but didn't really touch me.  As messages go - it's one I got a long, long time ago.  I was the kid in elementary school who was busy bringing all the nerds and geeks together and making a group out of us.  Still doing it, actually - this weekend I threw a party with 100 or so of my closest friends, mostly folks who I met at science fiction conventions over the years, or other places for people who don't fit in well with the mainstream.  Helping to build that community is one of the most important things in my life.  So a applaud the story, despite it's unrealistic points, I just don't need it, personally.



OsamaBinLondon

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Reply #29 on: June 11, 2008, 09:22:32 AM
Quote
This is exactly the kind of story that I love.  Not only was it well written, it was exceptionally read by Anna.  Her reading reminded me strongly of the audio version of The Lovely Bones by Alice Sebold. Not the story, just the reading.  Brava.

I try not to make judgements on a story based on the reading, although sometimes it is a difficult thing to do.  If an author is lucky enough to have their story read by a fitting or accomplised orator, it can lend fathoms to its delivery and reception.  Connie Maybe, read sometime ago by Wichita Rutherford is a classic example of a perfect moulding, and for that reason remains one of my favourite EP stories to date. I'm gripped with side splitting fits of laughter whenever I listen to it.  Conversely I have been disconcerted on a few other  occasions (and really only a few) because of the ineptitued of the vocal delivery... which is really no fault of the author's.  I'm not being critical of EP here.  In fact they do an excpeptional job in the delivery of audio content such as no other podcast I have yet encountered.  Neither am I saying that the reading should not be taken in to consideration when evaluating an episode; certainly Anna's reading was superb, and does deserve a mention, but strictly speaking remains a seperate component from the merits of the story as opposed to those attributed to the author.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 02:18:12 AM by OsamaBinLondon »



Jhite

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Reply #30 on: June 11, 2008, 03:13:47 PM
I was not in love with this story.  It was alright, it just didn't do much for me.  I was not a big reader of YA fiction even as a kid, and now really can't get into it at all.

Sorry Steve, I will have to vote for no more YA Fiction on Escape pod, if there is a voting going on, Which I don't think there is.  As one of my former bosses was famous for saying, "I don't think you understand, this is not a democracy. I am in charge." 



« Last Edit: June 11, 2008, 03:18:41 PM by Jhite »

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SamChupp

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Reply #31 on: June 11, 2008, 04:34:34 PM
I really liked this story - it touched me very deeply.

I have made similar promises.

The funny thing is, I have also made promises of this kind to pick up folks if the Faeries come for me.

Or if I fall into an alternate fantasy world where magic works and I could become my favorite D&D character.

This story has that same wistfulness which made me nearly tear up and cry.

Anna's voice was perfect.

This story is about that sense of "Old Friends Who Just Met" which is prevalent in fandom, and I love these kind of stories.

I particularly loved the line "And when it lands, we'll be the aliens. All of us, together."

If we can't have YA fiction on Escape Pod, maybe you need to make TeenPod or something. Because this is cool.



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Reply #32 on: June 11, 2008, 05:15:14 PM
If we can't have YA fiction on Escape Pod, maybe you need to make TeenPod or something. Because this is cool.

There's always Clonepod.

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Reply #33 on: June 11, 2008, 07:47:25 PM
Nice story, excellent reading!


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Reply #34 on: June 11, 2008, 10:01:13 PM
Wheel of morality turn turn turn, tell us a lesson that we should learn.

I just felt that it was so swollen with morals that there was not enough space for good storyline.
Ugh.  This story is in the worst tradition of YA fiction: the after-school special, in which the protagonist Learns a Valuable Lesson.  Even as a kid, I was suspicious of that sort of thing; as an adult, I really can't stand it.  Not a fan of this one.
Yeah, I recognize that lots of YA fiction features Important Messages.  But I see that as a weakness, and a characteristic of bad YA-- kids don't need to be preached to any more than adults do-- so I'm not willing to let it pass.

I have to respectfully disagree with the sentiments stated here, although I relate to where they come from.  Kids and adults both need to be taught the importance of values and morals.  Honesty, Honoring your Word,  Sincere care for others, Integrity, Respect--these are important things.

I'm not saying this story is a model of how it should be done.  I share the desire to role your eyes at heavy handed "afterschool special" type lessons.  I giggle sometimes when I watch old sitcoms like "Different Strokes", "Facts of Life", or "Family Ties", but at the same time I really miss those shows and their attempt to teach me something.  As a young adult, I actually got some "valuable lessons" from those characters.  Now sitcoms are a sea of recycled sex jokes.  Yes, I may laugh, but is that really all there is to life.

I did like this story, mostly for the realness of the protagonist and her emotions.  Adolescent bonding based on shared desire to flee with aliens may be a stretch, but as others said, I didn't care.  It was engaging enough to enjoy.


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OsamaBinLondon

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Reply #35 on: June 12, 2008, 03:05:36 AM
Quote
I have to respectfully disagree with the sentiments stated here, although I relate to where they come from.  Kids and adults both need to be taught the importance of values and morals.  Honesty, Honoring your Word,  Sincere care for others, Integrity, Respect--these are important things


I disagree further still. I don't have an issue with YA or stories with morals per se.  Done with any reasonable degree of tact when manipulated into a storyline it's fine.  I expect half the stories I've read have some kind of mild ethical motive lurking in he prose, even when it hasn't been deliberately intended.  What I didn't like about this story was the way it was done.  The whole story seemed shrouded in the intent to provide some sort of ethical epiphany.  It wasn't even subtle, and left me feeling like I'd just watched Bambi.  Perhaps in my prepubescent days I would have enjoyed this one, but as a young adult when I already thought I 'knew it all'... I would probably have been outraged by this condescension. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 03:12:33 AM by OsamaBinLondon »



CammoBlammo

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Reply #36 on: June 12, 2008, 10:07:10 AM
I was about halfway through listening to the story when I decided that while good, it might have been a little clichéd for my taste. You know the thing --- lonesome kid who feels alone in the world, a bully who was probably just as lonely, Anna's voice and so on. Then I realised I didn't mind the clichés at all, because the story was taking me along. So I decided that those things are tropes of a pre-emoish subgenre of Young Adult.

I don't know if there's a better word for it. But given that this is not a democracy, I'll just say it is and wait for the police to arrive.

(Or aliens. Aliens would be so cool!)



Corydon

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Reply #37 on: June 12, 2008, 01:42:40 PM
Quote
I have to respectfully disagree with the sentiments stated here, although I relate to where they come from.  Kids and adults both need to be taught the importance of values and morals.  Honesty, Honoring your Word,  Sincere care for others, Integrity, Respect--these are important things


I disagree further still. I don't have an issue with YA or stories with morals per se.  Done with any reasonable degree of tact when manipulated into a storyline it's fine.  I expect half the stories I've read have some kind of mild ethical motive lurking in he prose, even when it hasn't been deliberately intended.  What I didn't like about this story was the way it was done.  The whole story seemed shrouded in the intent to provide some sort of ethical epiphany.  It wasn't even subtle, and left me feeling like I'd just watched Bambi.  Perhaps in my prepubescent days I would have enjoyed this one, but as a young adult when I already thought I 'knew it all'... I would probably have been outraged by this condescension. 

I agree with what you're saying, but think you're being unfair to Bambi.  If after Bambi's mother died, he had a monologue all about how hunting is bad, m'kay?, then it'd be a more fair comparison to this story.  The movie does have a lot to say about loss, and about the pain of growing up.  But it makes its point without beating its audience around the head.  That's why it's still worth watching, and all those after-school specials aren't.



OsamaBinLondon

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Reply #38 on: June 12, 2008, 03:01:53 PM
LOL< yes, you're quite right!  Don't take me too literally, I do believe I have exaggerated somewhat to make my point.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 03:06:43 PM by OsamaBinLondon »



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Reply #39 on: June 12, 2008, 03:57:40 PM
What I didn't like about this story was the way it was done.  The whole story seemed shrouded in the intent to provide some sort of ethical epiphany.  It wasn't even subtle...

I agree.  I was going to say subilty is best, but that sounds like you are trying to sneak something in.  I guess the best way is to present real honest conflicts and real honest consequenses for decisions made, good or bad.  I think the consequence is what is missing many times in media when a moral or value is brushed aside.  I think Bambi is a great example, as Corydon pointed out.  It shows the "reality" of the situation without setting aside an expositional "here's what we've learned".  (Of course we all know after watching that "Man is evil")
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 03:59:41 PM by Swamp »

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Reply #40 on: June 13, 2008, 11:30:57 PM
Alright: I was all set to complain here about this story (something along the lines of nostalgic-themes-and-YA-labels-are-no-excuse-for-static-characters-and-virtually-nonexistent-plot), but so many of these comments are so positive that I feel I may have missed something.  Going back for another listen...



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Reply #41 on: June 18, 2008, 04:04:57 PM
I know I'm really late to the game (I have fallen behind on listening to EP, PP, and PC episodes), but here goes:

I still haven't recovered from the realization that I am never going into space.  I got that epiphany from "Schwartz Between the Galaxies".  Yeah, we (as humans) will get there someday, but we (as in you and I) will not.  We're born on this rock, we live on this rock, and we're going to die on this rock.  It just sucks, and makes me depressed.  This story reopened the wound for me.  Sure, it had an optimistic ending, but it shows how far we are from getting to space.  Like all these teenagers working in their basements are going to solve the issues of FTL travel...I feel like sci-fi is tougher to get involved in now, and it sucks. 

Damn you "Schwarts Between the Galaxies"!

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Reply #42 on: June 18, 2008, 04:46:10 PM
I still haven't recovered from the realization that I am never going into space.  I got that epiphany from "Schwartz Between the Galaxies".  Yeah, we (as humans) will get there someday, but we (as in you and I) will not.  We're born on this rock, we live on this rock, and we're going to die on this rock.  It just sucks, and makes me depressed.  This story reopened the wound for me.  Sure, it had an optimistic ending, but it shows how far we are from getting to space.  Like all these teenagers working in their basements are going to solve the issues of FTL travel...I feel like sci-fi is tougher to get involved in now, and it sucks. 

Who says we need FTL?  Generation ships, baby!

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Reply #43 on: June 18, 2008, 05:16:08 PM
I still haven't recovered from the realization that I am never going into space.  I got that epiphany from "Schwartz Between the Galaxies".  Yeah, we (as humans) will get there someday, but we (as in you and I) will not.  We're born on this rock, we live on this rock, and we're going to die on this rock.  It just sucks, and makes me depressed.  This story reopened the wound for me.  Sure, it had an optimistic ending, but it shows how far we are from getting to space.  Like all these teenagers working in their basements are going to solve the issues of FTL travel...I feel like sci-fi is tougher to get involved in now, and it sucks. 

Who says we need FTL?  Generation ships, baby!

Note the bolded segment. Generation ships may eventually allow the human race to spread beyond its current little ball of rock, but they offer little solace to those that want to personally see a differnet planet.



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Reply #44 on: June 18, 2008, 06:55:28 PM
Generation ships may eventually allow the human race to spread beyond its current little ball of rock, but they offer little solace to those that want to personally see a differnet planet.
Very powerful telescopes?

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wintermute

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Reply #45 on: June 18, 2008, 06:56:56 PM
Or, what about slowships with cryogenic freezing? It's not impossible that people alive today will spend several centuries frozen so they can wake up on another planet.

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Reply #46 on: June 18, 2008, 07:00:00 PM
Or, what about slowships with cryogenic freezing? It's not impossible that people alive today will spend several centuries frozen so they can wake up on another planet.

Or is "cryogenic freezing" a tautological redundancy? I think maybe it is.

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Reply #47 on: June 18, 2008, 07:01:08 PM
Or, what about slowships with cryogenic freezing? It's not impossible that people alive today will spend several centuries frozen so they can wake up on another planet.

Or is "cryogenic freezing" a tautological redundancy? I think maybe it is.

Kind of like "digital downloads"?

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Reply #48 on: June 18, 2008, 07:01:34 PM
Or, what about slowships with cryogenic freezing? It's not impossible that people alive today will spend several centuries frozen so they can wake up on another planet.

Or is "cryogenic freezing" a tautological redundancy? I think maybe it is.

As opposed to "cryogenic melting".

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Reply #49 on: June 18, 2008, 07:02:53 PM
Or is "cryogenic freezing" a tautological redundancy? I think maybe it is.

Oh, you can freeze people without it being cryogenics. But I think the preferred term is "cryogenics" without the "freezing" part. :)

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