Author Topic: EP170: Pervert  (Read 34380 times)

Schreiber

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Reply #25 on: August 10, 2008, 06:15:54 PM
You lost me, Jeem.

You know, it's a "turn the tables" story, and not a good one.  The rather obvious concept alone is supposed to make up for the lack of execution.  Anyway, reminded me right away of Heston yelling at his simian captors.

Oh, okay.  Got it.



deflective

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Reply #26 on: August 10, 2008, 08:15:36 PM
i'm not even sure why you would want to change the subject in the middle of a thread. the option usually just results in the thread's subject being repeated over and over at the start of each post; adding to the visual noise of the page.


the story seems to lock this as escape pod's summer of love, six of the last nine episodes gives prime time to getting jiggy (or simulating it). maybe the increasing prostitute level is just a secondary result of this. a rising tide floats all boats.

now we just need some kind of out of control podcast music festival to lock the summer into memory.



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Reply #27 on: August 10, 2008, 08:26:26 PM
i'm not even sure why you would want to change the subject in the middle of a thread. the option usually just results in the thread's subject being repeated over and over at the start of each post; adding to the visual noise of the page.


the story seems to lock this as escape pod's summer of love, six of the last nine episodes gives prime time to getting jiggy (or simulating it). maybe the increasing prostitute level is just a secondary result of this. a rising tide floats all boats.

now we just need some kind of out of control podcast music festival to lock the summer into memory.

Podstock?  ;D

Well, as for the "summer of love" on Escape Pod, I count four stories out of the past nine that had sex in them, starting with "God Juice". 

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deflective

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Reply #28 on: August 11, 2008, 05:23:29 AM
don't know which ones you're counting. we had the two prostitute stories, the three last episodes, and the story that opened with exposition on asphyxiation as sexual stimulation. i'm not even counting Marx shacking up with a future groupie.

compare this with another block of episodes.
i'm thinking of escape pod painted bright yellow and covered in colourful swirls.



Schreiber

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Reply #29 on: August 11, 2008, 05:43:31 AM
Maybe we ought to just accept that sex is an integral an element of speculative fiction as space travel, dragons, and ax-wielding maniacs.  Okay, that last one was thrown in for the benefit of Pseudopod, but I think you catch my drift.



SFEley

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Reply #30 on: August 11, 2008, 05:54:22 AM
don't know which ones you're counting. we had the two prostitute stories, the three last episodes, and the story that opened with exposition on asphyxiation as sexual stimulation. i'm not even counting Marx shacking up with a future groupie.

Here we have a subtle form of ambiguity that I've seen crop up a lot in discussions like this: it's very common for people to have different concepts of how "sex" is defined, often without knowing it.

Of the "three last episodes," one had a scene of heat transfer between alien jellyfish.  One had dogs copulating in heat.  And one had an involuntary ejaculation by a minor character.  Broadly defined, you could consider all of these to be sexual activity; but if you define sex as humans engaging in intercourse, none of them had any sex in them.  There's no objective answer on what definition you should use, but I do think it's useful to recognize that many people come to the word with different assumptions.

This is mostly trivia and not important.  However, I will rigorously deny that there is any sex in "The Something-Dreaming Game," and I do think it's important to make that clear.  Yes, the author is pretty frank about children choking themselves for sensual stimulation, but the children did not do it as a sex act.  Escape Pod does not publish stories involving sexual activity with minors.  I take allegations that we do quite seriously, both for my own ethical reasons and because those allegations in the wrong ears could get us into a non-trivial amount of trouble.  So please, unless you want to discuss it with me privately, take that one out of your count.

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deflective

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Reply #31 on: August 11, 2008, 06:37:24 AM
well, you guys harshed my buzz.

seems like i can't bring up any episode trend without people reacting defensively. if anyone knows my approach could be changed i'd be very interested to hear from you.

otherwise, lesson learned. this wasn't the conversation i was signed on for.



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Reply #32 on: August 11, 2008, 01:30:53 PM
The way space battles work in the "Pervert" universe is that one side leaves a point in space laden with mines and torpedoes, then flies away and waits for the other side to show up and crash into them.

Win.

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Reply #33 on: August 11, 2008, 01:34:14 PM
Well, as for the "summer of love" on Escape Pod, I count four stories out of the past nine that had sex in them, starting with "God Juice". 

We're all adults.  Adults (except for asexual ones) have sex.  Sex happens.  Without sex (in most cases) none of us would be here.  Plus, sex is fun to write about, and leads to all sorts of complicated plot-ular things.  It's relatable in that we all know what it is and are (again, mostly) capable of having it in the way we enjoy having it.  Not everyone can relate to my job in TV news, but everyone could relate if I said "I had sex last night".

I for one don't mind the sex element in the stories.

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Reply #34 on: August 11, 2008, 01:39:42 PM
I think the best part of this story was the world the author created.  I found myself wondering:

* is this an Eastern or middle-Eastern culture thing?  Or is this worldwide?
* does every culture subscribe to the methods?
* the "button that can zap you" thing... was that a joke Allie was making, or is there really a button?

The author seemed to try and make it more pan-cultural via language, clothing, and the club atmosphere, but the food was definitely not Western.

I'm reminded of Sean McMullen's "Souls in the Great Machine", where Glasken and his friend go to a restaurant and Glasken, who speaks the local dialect, requests an "Islamic Menu" for his friend because, in far-future Australia, Islam is one of the three major religions, so much so that restaurants cater to Islamic persons with menus and food choices.

Was Quiet Guy (Jamil? I forget his name...) trying to set Our Hero up with Old Guy in the hopes that Old Guy would turn him away from wanting to have heterosexual sex?  I wasn't quite sure.

I think the idea of the story was sound, but the execution didn't pay off enough on the idea of Our Hero as being a repressed pervert.  But then, in a culture like that, where you have to control your responses and live behind veils except among your own "kind" -- that is, in Our Hero's case, men -- I guess those are the responses you're trained to have.  I give it one thumb up -- interesting world, not interesting story.

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Reply #35 on: August 11, 2008, 02:39:47 PM
Well, as for the "summer of love" on Escape Pod, I count four stories out of the past nine that had sex in them, starting with "God Juice". 

We're all adults.  Adults (except for asexual ones) have sex.  Sex happens.  Without sex (in most cases) none of us would be here.  Plus, sex is fun to write about, and leads to all sorts of complicated plot-ular things.  It's relatable in that we all know what it is and are (again, mostly) capable of having it in the way we enjoy having it.  Not everyone can relate to my job in TV news, but everyone could relate if I said "I had sex last night".

I for one don't mind the sex element in the stories.

I think you misunderstand the intent of my post.  All I was saying was, I don't see a preponderance of sex in the recent stories -- do the math; four out of nine is less than half.

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OsamaBinLondon

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Reply #36 on: August 11, 2008, 02:55:05 PM
Too boring for me to get past the two recurring thoughts.

1.) when will there be explosions

2.) when will it finish.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008, 02:56:58 PM by OsamaBinLondon »



Rain

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Reply #37 on: August 11, 2008, 03:58:24 PM
I thought the whole story was much too heavy handed, personally i dont understand or agree with the anti-gay 'agenda' that one part of the political spectrum has, but there are much better ways of getting the point across than this clumsy story, i didnt like the bit at the end with the eggs and would much rather have seen more of the society than what we got



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Reply #38 on: August 11, 2008, 05:18:37 PM
* the "button that can zap you" thing... was that a joke Allie was making, or is there really a button?

  I was curious about this too, but on my third listen through I decided it was just a reference to him jumping like he had been shocked earlier in the story when she psoke to him. I think that, in this soceity, if there was thought to be a risk with these people interacting that it would just not be allowed in the first place like it is for the rest of their society.

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Talia

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Reply #39 on: August 11, 2008, 08:00:43 PM
Oh man I went to go listen to this and as soon as I started I realized I'd already read the text story, and within the last couple of months (this has happened to me once with Podcastle too).

Enjoyed the story very much. I would not be so swift to say just because it changes around perceptions means its intending to make any political point.  Rather, just to say, "What if?"

As a straight person it was an interesting experience to put myself in the protagonist's position and wonder how I'd think or behave. It makes me ask myself, what if I was brought up believing some fundimental aspect of myself was wrong and bad? I don't know how I'd react to that or even who I'd wind up being. Issues of identity and societal pressures. Interesting stuff IMHO.




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Reply #40 on: August 11, 2008, 08:27:42 PM
I struggled a little on whether to write this.  I also struggled a little on where to put this post.  In the end, I figured someone else may be able to put better words to my thoughts and I enjoy EscapePod too much to say nothing.

"EP170: Pervert" is the first EscapePod episode I did not finish.  I skipped to the end to listen to show feedback after 10 minutes.

I came to Escape Pod back around Episode 95.  I rapidly went through the back log.  I have listened to every escape pod episode to date.  I have not liked every single one, but most of them are really good, most of them made me think, most of them were enjoyable to listen to, and most of them were fun.

While this sounds like a big condemnation of Episode 170, it isn't.  I will probably try to listen again some other time.  That's not a big deal.  Unfortunately, it seems like EscapePod has been slipping of recent.  I'm not completely sure I know what the culprit is but I want to voice a couple concerns. 

One of the wonderful aspects of EscapePod was an intro that was personable, well-written, relevant to the story yet left the story untouched for us to discover, and often prepared us nicely for the story.  That is an extremely challenging writing assignment yet Steve did it well for most episodes.  The new layout just does not work for me because it can't accomplish everything the original layout could when done right.

It seems like the quality of stories is down.  I certainly expect fluctuations over time and not sure what can be accomplished to fix this.  I'm hoping it will pass.  I wonder if it has to do with filling 2 podcasts now instead of 1.



 



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Reply #41 on: August 12, 2008, 01:58:18 AM
This story bore an uncanny (read almost plagiarism) resemblance to Charles Beaumont's "The Crooked Man" that appeared in The Playboy Book of Science Fiction, edited by Alice K. Turner
New York: HarperPrism, 1998
The storyline, characters and plot are almost identical, the hydrosexuals seems to be new, but in my opinion, someone owes someone some royalties.
The Crooked man lives in a future where men and women live in seperate districts, reproduction is done via petri dish, and in order to stop disease and rampant reproduction the government has instituted mandatory social homosexuality as the norm. The main character can't cope with feelings of guilt that he has about being "crooked" and having uncontrollable passions for a member of the opposite sex. He is a member of cheap and tawdry chat rooms and message boards, and ventures out to remote parks and truck stops for illegal hetero sex. He is ultimately caught by the police and punished. This was an interesting take on the exact same idea, although I think it was better when it appeared in playboy.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 02:50:24 AM by the_wombat »



albionmoonlight

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Reply #42 on: August 12, 2008, 01:05:58 PM
The story seemed to give hints of other stories being set in the same world.  The dinner friend who cryptically says "I'm not like you."  Learning just enough about the woman to make us want to learn more about her.

I get the feeling that this story set up a world and that the author intended/intends to revisit that world and explore these ideas in more detail.



Listener

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Reply #43 on: August 12, 2008, 02:47:04 PM
Well, as for the "summer of love" on Escape Pod, I count four stories out of the past nine that had sex in them, starting with "God Juice". 

We're all adults.  Adults (except for asexual ones) have sex.  Sex happens.  Without sex (in most cases) none of us would be here.  Plus, sex is fun to write about, and leads to all sorts of complicated plot-ular things.  It's relatable in that we all know what it is and are (again, mostly) capable of having it in the way we enjoy having it.  Not everyone can relate to my job in TV news, but everyone could relate if I said "I had sex last night".

I for one don't mind the sex element in the stories.

I think you misunderstand the intent of my post.  All I was saying was, I don't see a preponderance of sex in the recent stories -- do the math; four out of nine is less than half.

Well, I think I was using your post as a jumping-off point, not to come after you.  But yeah, you're right, I did forget the "don't".  Sorry.

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Reply #44 on: August 12, 2008, 04:45:36 PM
I struggled a little on whether to write this.  I also struggled a little on where to put this post.  In the end, I figured someone else may be able to put better words to my thoughts and I enjoy EscapePod too much to say nothing.

"EP170: Pervert" is the first EscapePod episode I did not finish.  I skipped to the end to listen to show feedback after 10 minutes.

I came to Escape Pod back around Episode 95.  I rapidly went through the back log.  I have listened to every escape pod episode to date.  I have not liked every single one, but most of them are really good, most of them made me think, most of them were enjoyable to listen to, and most of them were fun.

While this sounds like a big condemnation of Episode 170, it isn't.  I will probably try to listen again some other time.  That's not a big deal.  Unfortunately, it seems like EscapePod has been slipping of recent.  I'm not completely sure I know what the culprit is but I want to voice a couple concerns. 

One of the wonderful aspects of EscapePod was an intro that was personable, well-written, relevant to the story yet left the story untouched for us to discover, and often prepared us nicely for the story.  That is an extremely challenging writing assignment yet Steve did it well for most episodes.  The new layout just does not work for me because it can't accomplish everything the original layout could when done right.

It seems like the quality of stories is down.  I certainly expect fluctuations over time and not sure what can be accomplished to fix this.  I'm hoping it will pass.  I wonder if it has to do with filling 2 podcasts now instead of 1.



 


In regards to story quality, you know, I think its a matter of personal taste. I don't find the quality of EP stories has slipped at all. And look at the last story. People absolutely LOVED it. Keep in mind EP can only run with what's submitted to them. Presumably most of the stories submitted recently simply haven't been to your taste. So it goes.

As for the format, I rather liked the intros too, but I understand why the change was made, and it seems most people prefer to get to the story as quickly as possible, so I guess that's going to stick...




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Reply #45 on: August 12, 2008, 06:17:24 PM
I think this was a good story in many ways, good world building and a thought-provoking plot, but I found the narrator somewhat annoying in his self pity. I wonder about where the male/female contact taboo started. I also wonder, if it's so strong, why do they ever have them working in proximity? Why don't they, say, have male cities and female cities and make everyone commute for the water-mating sessions?

Was Quiet Guy (Jamil? I forget his name...) trying to set Our Hero up with Old Guy in the hopes that Old Guy would turn him away from wanting to have heterosexual sex?  I wasn't quite sure.

I thought it was the reverse - the old guy seems to have been more overtly uncomfortable with his role in life, and I think Jamil was hoping that the narrator might be able to keep him from doing something foolish.




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Reply #46 on: August 12, 2008, 06:20:26 PM
It seems like the quality of stories is down.  I certainly expect fluctuations over time and not sure what can be accomplished to fix this.  I'm hoping it will pass.  I wonder if it has to do with filling 2 podcasts now instead of 1.

In regards to story quality, you know, I think its a matter of personal taste. I don't find the quality of EP stories has slipped at all. And look at the last story. People absolutely LOVED it. Keep in mind EP can only run with what's submitted to them. Presumably most of the stories submitted recently simply haven't been to your taste. So it goes.

Yes, I second that. It's a common, and very understandable, reaction to think that just because a series of stories did not appeal to you that this represents a drop in quality. But for that to be a valid position, you'd have to first show that your view is representative of the majority of listeners.



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Reply #47 on: August 12, 2008, 06:53:55 PM
It seems like the quality of stories is down.  I certainly expect fluctuations over time and not sure what can be accomplished to fix this.  I'm hoping it will pass.  I wonder if it has to do with filling 2 podcasts now instead of 1.

I think it all depends on what you like. Some people didn't like this story. I didn't like it myself but only in the sense that it reminded me of places like Saudi Arabia where the women are virtual prisoners, chattel.  A story like this makes me think of what exists in real life today. And that makes me grit my teeth. But it also showed me a different scenario of where sexual segregation could lead. That made it interesting. I would have liked more closure, a way out of the box trapping the culture and characters, but within the context of a short story that probably wasn't possible.

But I don’t see any slippage in story quality. You didn’t like this week? Well, everyone seemed to love last week’s “How I Mounted Goldie, Saved My Partner Lori, and Sniffed Out The People’s Justice”.

My only complaint is I want MORE. The stories often seem too short. But when I think of how much work it must be to read through all the stories submitted, contact the authors to get permission to use them, then to find narrators (though I love Steve’s narration), to record each episode, then to edit it, well, I don’t see much hope of more unless Steve can clone himself. 

What escapepod needs it not just donations but .. INVESTMENT.

I also think that escapepod, pseudopod and podcastle should all be linked from the same page. That way I would think there was more even though there isn’t.



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Reply #48 on: August 12, 2008, 08:20:24 PM
In regards to story quality, you know, I think its a matter of personal taste. I don't find the quality of EP stories has slipped at all. And look at the last story. People absolutely LOVED it. Keep in mind EP can only run with what's submitted to them. Presumably most of the stories submitted recently simply haven't been to your taste. So it goes.

Yes, I second that. It's a common, and very understandable, reaction to think that just because a series of stories did not appeal to you that this represents a drop in quality. But for that to be a valid position, you'd have to first show that your view is representative of the majority of listeners.

But I don’t see any slippage in story quality. You didn’t like this week? Well, everyone seemed to love last week’s “How I Mounted Goldie, Saved My Partner Lori, and Sniffed Out The People’s Justice”.

Sorry, I think I should have posted to "About Escape Pod" instead.  While I didn't care for this story, I wasn't stating my opinion based solely on the last two episodes.  For the record, I thought last weeks show was good.  I think Steve was channeling my neighbor's Golden Retriever to perfection.

I see that my first comment seems like it would go much better in the "Intros" topic which I hadn't seen yet.

The second comment should likely be moved elsewhere too.  I finally had a hypothesis for something I had been feeling for a while.  As you mentioned, determining quality is a difficult measure.  I would argue that my position is valid independent of how many people share it but nothing may be actionable if I am in the minority.  I certainly don't have access to any quantitative data to back up that hypothesis which is why I thought it worth posting.




Roney

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Reply #49 on: August 12, 2008, 09:44:51 PM
I was kept interested in the story to the end by the two basic plot questions (Will the hero dare to make a heterosexual advance?  Either way, will he be found out?) and the one science fiction one (What the heck is "hydrosexual"?).  I think I account it a satisfying SF story because it was only the third that got a positive answer.

The world-building seemed pretty good to me, as an exploration of how such an extremely anti-hetero culture could sustain itself, although I'd be interested to know more about how it started.  I suspect that the priests will have buried that history very deeply, though, so it's difficult to draw out in the story.