The Lounge at the End of the Universe > Gallimaufry
The Politics Thread
Steven Saus:
Moderator's Note: This thread was split off from the feedback discussion to EP090: How Lonesome a Life Without Nerve Gas. You can track back from there for context.
Edit: Please read my response to Steve before flaming this post. I didn't carry off my original intent well at all with this, but I'm not going to retcon it to make myself look better either. Thanks.
--- Quote from: Scott Nash on January 29, 2007, 12:41:24 AM ---As near as I can tell, there is no political bias. Some people are so obsessed that they will 'pull' political meaning out of anything and nothing. Bill O'Riley and his ilk teach them that. Remember "Happy Feet?" Leftists can be just as bad as the right.
--- End quote ---
I don't remember which actor (or actress) I'm paraphrasing, but here goes:
--- Quote ---The (American political) left is about understanding and tolerating other people. We (actors) spend our lives trying to understand other, different people well enough that the audience can believe in them. So, of course we tend to be on the political left.
--- End quote ---
Speculative fiction - heck, nearly any fiction - also has elements of that. Authors must be able to get inside the heads of both protagonists and antagonists - including those who are nothing like the author. Otherwise you end up with cardboard cutouts instead of characters. Does that make them "liberal"? Probably not. Does that mean they might be a bit more understanding of other points of view? Probably so.
There has been a shift in American politics, a shift towards extremism and side-taking. We've forgotten that there's more than the loony leftists and wingnuts on the right. Any story that is compelling enough that it makes you stop and question your own motives and values - now there's a story worth something.
Um. I seem to have this soapbox. I'm done with it now; would someone else care for it? ::)
SFEley:
--- Quote from: uriel1998 on January 30, 2007, 05:30:03 PM ---I don't remember which actor (or actress) I'm paraphrasing, but here goes:
--- Quote ---The (American political) left is about understanding and tolerating other people. We (actors) spend our lives trying to understand other, different people well enough that the audience can believe in them. So, of course we tend to be on the political left.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
I just want to observe that the left's description of itself is inevitably going to come off sounding reasonable and compassionate and hard to argue with. What the above really boils down to is "I'm on the left because I'm a good person."
Oddly enough, the right's description of itself has the same attributes. I'm not quoting anyone in particular, but for many who believe in conservative values it might come down to "The (American political) right is about taking care of one's family and community, and ensuring a brighter future for everyone by keeping alive our freedom and the ideals that have made us successful."
Which, in turn, also boils down to "I'm on the right because I'm a good person."
Neither position is easy to argue with on the surface. Both positions have led to many policies that are good ideas, and many that are full of weaknesses, hypocrisies, and unintended consequences that can be blown wide open by the other side. Many policies from both sides are both strong and weak at once.
And I think you can get good science fiction out of either position. Or both at once. Or neither.
In any case, this is the lesser of two reasons why I don't talk about my politics in my intros. The bigger reason is because it isn't what EP is about, and anything I said would alienate parts of the audience for no useful reason.
But this reason is because it just makes me tired, and I know political lecturing almost never changes anyone's mind. How can it? You believe what you believe because you believe you're a good person, and your political beliefs contribute to that. I know I believe that. And if I were to try to change your mind about your beliefs, I'd have to start by convincing you you're not a good person.
As the Guy in Glasses said on Heroes, "Good luck with that."
scottjanssens:
I like being a moderate because it pisses off both ends of the political spectrum. So I guess you could say I'm a centrist because I'm an asshole ;P
Steven Saus:
--- Quote from: SFEley on January 30, 2007, 05:57:15 PM ---
--- Quote from: uriel1998 on January 30, 2007, 05:30:03 PM ---I don't remember which actor (or actress) I'm paraphrasing, but here goes:
--- Quote ---The (American political) left is about understanding and tolerating other people. We (actors) spend our lives trying to understand other, different people well enough that the audience can believe in them. So, of course we tend to be on the political left.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
I just want to observe that the left's description of itself is inevitably going to come off sounding reasonable and compassionate and hard to argue with. What the above really boils down to is "I'm on the left because I'm a good person."
Oddly enough, the right's description of itself has the same attributes. I'm not quoting anyone in particular, but for many who believe in conservative values it might come down to "The (American political) right is about taking care of one's family and community, and ensuring a brighter future for everyone by keeping alive our freedom and the ideals that have made us successful."
Which, in turn, also boils down to "I'm on the right because I'm a good person."
--- End quote ---
To clarify my statement, more than anything else:
I wasn't trying to assign value to that point of view. That it appears I did is a function of my own bias - and, on retrospect, that whole second bit shows it. There is such a thing as being too understanding of another's point of view as well, and I didn't reflect that at all.
I was attempting to analyze why you might expect to see more stories that get categorized as "liberal" or "leftist" without saying that was a good or bad thing. I started ranting instead. My apologies. :-\
Russell Nash:
--- Quote from: scottjanssens on January 30, 2007, 06:00:47 PM ---I like being a moderate because it pisses off both ends of the political spectrum. So I guess you could say I'm a centrist because I'm an asshole ;P
--- End quote ---
And the only thing that pisses everyone off even more is being a common-sensist (My own word), because eventually you will get around to looking at every single person and simple saying, "that makes absolutely no sense."
Unfortunately I need to say that far too often
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