Author Topic: Stephenie Meyers’ Twilight Saga and Vampirism as a metaphor for sex  (Read 40208 times)

alllie

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When was the Golden Age of Science Fiction? The late 1930s to the 1950s, when science fiction became widely popular and many classic science fiction stories were published. The joke answer is that the Golden age of Science Fiction is 14, the age when many science fiction readers become fans. I know I read my first scifi when I was 13 or 14 so maybe they are right.

Lately scifi fandom, in which I include not just the fans but writers, podcasters and publishers, want to catch the next generation of fans and have been pushing Young Adult Science Fiction, scifi for kids in their teens and maybe early twenties. I’m not immune to this campaign so I’ve been reading some of it myself. First, I got Scott Westerfeld’s Uglies trilogy. It was light but okay. Then I got Twilight, the first of Meyer's books about a clumsy girl and the vampire who loves her. The story is pretty simple. Despite that it pulled me right in. A shy girl moves to a small town to live with her father. She figures out that there are vampires going to her high school. She falls for one of them and he falls for her.

My first impression of the book was that it was BIG. It's a thick book. Once I opened it I realized it was big inside. Big font. Big line spacing. It reminded me that what publishers are basically selling is a paper product. The more paper they sell, the thicker the book, the more they can charge. The actual arrangement of ink on the page is usually the cheapest part of their product. Twilight is a big book. It might be classified as Young Adult Speculative Fiction but it was great as Old People Going Blind Fiction as well. As an old person going blind I found the font and the line spacing made it a lot easier for me to read than the tiny fonts in real books. I didn’t have to put on my special adjustable glasses and put it down a lot because my eyes were freaking. BIG FONTS. It was easy to read.

It was a little slow to start. I didn’t really find the girl, Bella, interesting. She seemed rather ordinary. There’s a vagueness to her that reminds me of superhero comic books. They leave the faces of the superheroes sketchy so the reader can imagine themselves in that role. In the same way Bella is vague so the reader can imagine herself as Bella. It’s not even clear if Bella is particularly pretty (except to Edward) but when the vampires appear, going to high school to give themselves a paper trail and a backstory that will allow them to live among humans, there are pages devoted to their beauty. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful vampires. Beautiful and irresistible so their prey cannot resist them. But this family of vampires is vegetarian. They don’t eat people but Bella’s vampire Edward can barely restrain himself from taking her. The descriptions of the teen vampires are very much how girls, how I, viewed many boys when I was that age. They did seem just as beautiful to me as Edward seems to Bella. I used to sit in class and covertly watch them. Edward’s hard flesh was like the hardness of young male flesh as their hormones turn teenaged boys, almost overnight, into something different, something alien. I hit my teenaged brother a couple of times (he deserved it) and it was like hitting a log. I hurt my hands more than I hurt him. And teenaged boys, beautiful as many are, are often monsters. So the entire metaphor of vampire = teenaged boy = monster = object-of-desire works.

Like Shakespeare has multiple layers and can be read for the plots, for the characterizations, for the sex and violence, for the dirty jokes, for the philosophy, for the language, Twilight, as simple as it is, has several layers. None of them is language. The language is simple. Meyer doesn’t have, say, Tanith Lee’s genius for the English language but the entire Bella/Edward relationship is a metaphor for the relationship between teenaged girls and boys as they fight their instinct to have sex, sex that might destroy them. Maybe it’s not like that today with birth control and abortion but when I grew up the struggle between guys and girls was to not have sex. The girl was supposed to be in charge of that but the better guys shared the responsibility, fought against their desire to have sex and maybe ruin the life of the girl who gave in. In the same way Edward fights against giving into his instincts and taking Bella, consuming her. As much as he is driven he fights against his desire. He also fights against her desire to become like him, to become a vampire, to lead her into damnation. He believes that he lost his soul when he was transformed and he doesn’t want to be the weapon that deprives Bella of her soul.  The whole thing is a metaphor for sex, at least sex as seen by a Mormon housewife, which was what Meyer was 5 years ago.

Meyer has linked various works to each book in the series. Pride and Prejudice to Twilight. Romeo and Juliet to New Moon. Wuthering Heights to Eclipse. A Midsummer’s Night’s Dream to Breaking Dawn. This adds another layer to each of the stories. In Twilight Edward, at first, seems cold and withdrawn, like Mr. Darcy, but that is because, like Mr. Darcy, he is trying to control and conceal his growing desire for an unsuitable girl. I think telling the Romeo and Juliet elements in New Moon would be too spoilery. In Eclipse, there are two guys in love with the same girl, in a relationship very much like Cathy, Heathcliff, and Edgar Linton. And in the final book, Breaking Dawn, first you have two men magically in love with the same girl then two immortal families struggling over a magical child like in A Midsummer’s Night’s Dream. All of the connections are pretty weak but it adds a nice additional layer to the books and that lets you run the similarities and differences over in your mind.

The Twilight Saga, like Austen’s novels, the Bronte sisters’ works and even Romeo and Juliet, are pretty much girl books, the text version of chick flicks. Meyer is writing about love and romance at its most melodramatic extreme. I don’t know that a male could tolerate them. Well, unless he got off on the idea of being the superhero protecting an accident-prone, trouble-magnet girlfriend or secretly hanging out in her bedroom, watching her as she sleeps. (Edward takes stalking to a whole other level.) Like Austen’s novels, the Twilight novels, especially the first one, have a strong Cinderella element. Most of Austen’s heroines are ordinary girls, usually without much money, who get the best, richest, most good-looking guy in the novel. Like Cinderella they get the prince. Just so Twilight is the story of how Bella, the ordinary girl, gets the superhero vampire.

So there are at least three layers to the Twilight Saga. It makes it all a little better. Gives you something else to read into it no matter how preposterous the story is.

Of course, I loved the books of the Twilight Saga, though I am kinda disgusted about it. Teenaged love, the vampire and the virgin. God, how ridiculous is that? Yet as soon as I finish one of Meyer's books I start rereading the parts I like best then reread the whole thing. After six days I’m almost through my third reading of Breaking Dawn. I don’t know why her books ring my bells. They make me feel kinda manipulated but still I find them addictive. I'm kinda mollified by the fact that they have sold over 8 million copies. So I'm not alone.

This summer Meyer also released the scifi book Host which I recommend. It is pretty straight forward scifi about an alien parasite living in the brain of a human and changed by it. The parasite finds herself loving the people that her host loved and driven to be with them. In a sense it's a rewrite of I Married a Monster From Outer Space but without the sex. No sex before marriage in books by Mormon housewives! I’ve already read it three times too. I try to blame that on the nice big font!

Well, at least it’s over. It will be a while before Meyer can get another book out and until then I can pretend I have better taste than this. Though I’m not embarrassed about liking Host. That one was okay.

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© Alllie 2008

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« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 04:03:42 PM by alllie »



DandHRoberts

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I don't know why I like these books either. I guess I have always had a thing for vampire stories. I have also had a thing coming of age stories. So for me this gets both of my itches scratched so to speak. I am definitely more intrigued with Edward then Bella. I am excited to read Midnight Sun (Twilight from Edwards perspective) is released. I know it will be a while. I am more interested in his version of New Moon but do not know if she will take on that project.

My favorite vamp books growing up were Christopher Pike's The Last Vampire. So like I said, something about vampires. It helps that Stephanie Meyer describes them as sparkley too.

Thanks for the insight on all the themes, I have never been good at really seeing them. Just read the story.

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My dislike of these books is pretty high, though I have only read the first two, Twilight and New Moon.  I found the main character to be way too mopey, whiny, and suffering from low self-esteem. I wanted to yell at her, "Snap out of it!"  Her relationship with with her vampire boyfriend was way too dependent and clingy.

On the other hand, I did like the vampire boyfriend, Edward. He did have some funny and interesting lines.

One thing that I found interesting about this book (and its sequel, New Moon) was that it was incredibly slow through the whole first half of the book, and then the pace became lightning fast as all the various killer monsters were trying to eat the heroine. (I was cheering for the monsters, though.)

So I actually kind of enjoyed the end of both books, but felt like it was not worth reading all that way to get there. I do think that there is a potential for the movie to be good, though. If the script writers cut short all the whiny moping from the beginning and keep the fast paced adventure and mysteries from the end, this has the potential to be a really great film. I just wish that the books could have trimmed somehow and rescued from their moping heroine.

Oh, and I found a spoof/summary of the Twilight books that I cannot resist sharing.  This spoof compares the Twilight Vampires to the teachings of the LDS Church, and has some very funny image edits.

Hmm


alllie

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My dislike of these books is pretty high, though I have only read the first two, Twilight and New Moon. 

I really admire your ability to just read two of the books. You should try heroin sometimes, cause you surely could stop it whenever you wanted.  ;D

Oh, and I found a spoof/summary of the Twilight books that I cannot resist sharing.  This spoof compares the Twilight Vampires to the teachings of the LDS Church, and has some very funny image edits.

And that was very very funny.



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Oh, and I found a spoof/summary of the Twilight books that I cannot resist sharing.  This spoof compares the Twilight Vampires to the teachings of the LDS Church, and has some very funny image edits.


First off, I wouldn't touch thus book with a ten foot pole (symbolically speaking).  I actually looked at the back cover blurb once because my neice was reading it.  But I had no idea that Stephenie Meyers was LDS.  The spoof interested me for that reason.  I must say parts of it were kind of funny, though many of the LDS beliefs were misrepresented.   For one, I am frightened that anyone would consider the trite and wildly speculative "movies" Saturday's Warriors or My Turn On Earth to be a serious insight into LDS beliefs.  It was fun to read, though, and helped strengthen my initial determination that the book seemed like sappy romantic drivel.

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Hilary Moon Murphy

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I really admire your ability to just read two of the books. You should try heroin sometimes, cause you surely could stop it whenever you wanted.  ;D

Nope.  I read one book too many.  I had too many of the teens in my book club (I'm a YA librarian) rave about the books, so I thought that I'd give the second book a chance.  And once I start a book -- any book -- I generally have to finish it.  I am definitely not starting the others, though.

Oh, and I found a spoof/summary of the Twilight books that I cannot resist sharing.  This spoof compares the Twilight Vampires to the teachings of the LDS Church, and has some very funny image edits.


First off, I wouldn't touch thus book with a ten foot pole (symbolically speaking).  I actually looked at the back cover blurb once because my neice was reading it.  But I had no idea that Stephenie Meyers was LDS.  The spoof interested me for that reason.  I must say parts of it were kind of funny, though many of the LDS beliefs were misrepresented.   For one, I am frightened that anyone would consider the trite and wildly speculative "movies" Saturday's Warriors or My Turn On Earth to be a serious insight into LDS beliefs.  It was fun to read, though, and helped strengthen my initial determination that the book seemed like sappy romantic drivel.

I suspect that a lot of aspects of LDS are misrepresented.  The author of the spoof is clearly pretty angry with the LDS church.  But oh... the spoof was a fabulous summary of the plot of the books, and how the characters interacted.

What intrigues me is the question of how these books got to be bestsellers.  Yes, they have fabulous covers.  yes, the publisher paid a quarter million dollar advance, and so promoted the heck out of them.  And yes, Edward is a hottie and so is Jacob... But there are so many other wonderful romance stories, including vampire ones.  Why did these become the hottest things out there?

Hmm


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Allie, Sherwood Smith has a few great LJ posts and discussions about vampires, sex, and Twilight that might interest you. 

Twilight and Nice Vampires.

More on Stephanie Meyers

I'm sure there are more, but those were the easiest ones for me to track down. 

Based on what I've heard, I don't think I'll be reading these books (despite being a guy who loves Austen and Romeo and Juliet and doesn't have any problems with vampire romance).  I wouldn't be completely opposed to seeing the movie, though.

I find the relationship and fascination between sex and death in vampire literature to be kind of fascinating, though.  Another great example of this is also the film The Lost Boys (pretty much my favorite teen vampire movie).

As to *why* Twilight is so popular, part of me wonders if it's because it's a little bit "safer" than some of the other stuff out there.  I haven't read it, but from what other people have told me, there's no sex, right?  I imagine there's little (if any profanity).  The lack of "edge" might help some teachers and parents push it a bit more.  As opposed to say Holly Black's Valiant (which is a pretty good read, but far more graphic and mature).  Heck, church youth groups might be able to promote it for all I know.


alllie

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What intrigues me is the question of how these books got to be bestsellers.  Yes, they have fabulous covers.  yes, the publisher paid a quarter million dollar advance, and so promoted the heck out of them.  And yes, Edward is a hottie and so is Jacob... But there are so many other wonderful romance stories, including vampire ones.  Why did these become the hottest things out there?

I don't much care how they became bestsellers since there is so much crap on best seller lists, from Rush Limbaugh to Ann Coulter, that I’m not impressed with that. What I keep trying to understand is why so many women, including me, find them addictive. You are lucky you are immune to them but many of us are not. I know dozens of people online who have not only read them once but again and again. And again. Including me.

I understand they are well written fairy tales anchored solidly in contemporary reality. The reality of characters and background adds to the strength of the fairy tale. Fairy tales give people what they really want in their heart of hearts. Like in Grimm's Fairy Tales there are about eight (if I remember rightly) stories, including Hansel and Gretel, about parents abandoning their children to starve and the children surviving one way or another and, in some stories, even prospering. I think that means that at that time and place people really, really wanted to dump their kids and have their kids still survive. It was a time of great poverty and famine so I guess that was what lots of people wanted.

What is it in the Twilight books that so many women, and not just in the US, really want. A paternalistic, controlling, good-looking BF? I don't really think that is it. Maybe it's just true love. Maybe that is what a lot of women want and can't find. But it has to be more than that. I just can't figure out what.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 12:04:51 AM by alllie »



alllie

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Allie, Sherwood Smith has a few great LJ posts and discussions about vampires, sex, and Twilight that might interest you. 

Twilight and Nice Vampires.

More on Stephanie Meyers

Based on what I've heard, I don't think I'll be reading these books (despite being a guy who loves Austen and Romeo and Juliet and doesn't have any problems with vampire romance).  I wouldn't be completely opposed to seeing the movie, though.

As to *why* Twilight is so popular, part of me wonders if it's because it's a little bit "safer" than some of the other stuff out there.  I haven't read it, but from what other people have told me, there's no sex, right?  I imagine there's little (if any profanity).  The lack of "edge" might help some teachers and parents push it a bit more.  As opposed to say Holly Black's Valiant (which is a pretty good read, but far more graphic and mature).  Heck, church youth groups might be able to promote it for all I know.

Thanks for the links. I posted them on a Twilight forum.

And yes, they are safe books, no sex till the 4th one and that only after Edward and Bella are married. No profanity either. I think "Gosh" and "Holy Crow" are as rough as it gets but there are a lot of young adult books out there that are just as clean. When I read the Uglies Trilogy I couldn't really tell if the kids ever had sex or not. Kissing was the most that was described.

I’m not surprised the Twilight books don’t appeal to you.

What most girls/women want is to love and be loved in the way Edward loves Bella and Bella loves Edward. Mad love. True love. Happily Ever After Love. That can be hard to find because it's not what most men want. It's not your fantasy. You don't write books like this, you don't like books like this, you rarely even read books like this. The last male writer who wrote something like this (that springs to my mind) is Shakespeare.

The usual male fantasy is not to find the one special woman to love and be with forever. For ya'll the fantasy is the brothel, the Playboy Mansion with you as Hugh Hefner, the harem with you as the Sheik, the 72 virgins in Paradise. Your fantasy is not to find that one special girl but to be surrounded by many, many women who like you and who will have sex with you with no complications. The fantasy for men is not finding true love, it’s being James Bond or someone like him and surrounded by Pussy Galore.

Like Katherine Heburn said once: "I often wonder whether men and women really suit each other. Perhaps they should live next door and just visit now and then."

This is all evolution's trick, to make women want something from men we are unlikely to get.

Maybe once we can design and build perfect humanoid robots we can build some romantic, faithful loving male robots for women and some bimbo ones for men, cause I think that is the only way each gender can ever fulfill its fantasy.



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The usual male fantasy is not to find the one special woman to love and be with forever. For ya'll the fantasy is the brothel, the Playboy Mansion with you as Hugh Hefner, the harem with you as the Sheik, the 72 virgins in Paradise. Your fantasy is not to find that one special girl but to be surrounded by many, many women who like you and who will have sex with you with no complications. The fantasy for men is not finding true love, it’s being James Bond or someone like him and surrounded by Pussy Galore.

Generalize much, don't we?



Gwyddyon

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I’m not surprised the Twilight books don’t appeal to you.

What most girls/women want is to love and be loved in the way Edward loves Bella and Bella loves Edward. Mad love. True love. Happily Ever After Love. That can be hard to find because it's not what most men want. It's not your fantasy. You don't write books like this, you don't like books like this, you rarely even read books like this. The last male writer who wrote something like this (that springs to my mind) is Shakespeare.

The usual male fantasy is not to find the one special woman to love and be with forever. For ya'll the fantasy is the brothel, the Playboy Mansion with you as Hugh Hefner, the harem with you as the Sheik, the 72 virgins in Paradise. Your fantasy is not to find that one special girl but to be surrounded by many, many women who like you and who will have sex with you with no complications. The fantasy for men is not finding true love, it’s being James Bond or someone like him and surrounded by Pussy Galore.

Wow.  While that may be true of some people, that's one heck of a generalization. 

I couldn't get past roughly page 350 of the first book.  Not because of the romance, and not because of the "true love" approach to the romance (although I'd argue that the Edward/Bella relationship, at least to the extent I'm aware of it, is FAR from true love - closer to adolescent infatuation and pretending to be grown up).  Heck, one of my biggest pet peeves when I reread Wheel of Time is that Egwene and Rand don't work out so early on because that's a romance plot that I was really hoping would evolve more throughout the series.  I managed to make it through Outlander and enjoy it enough to spend months tracking down a library copy of the sequel.  But I just can't bring myself to read more of the Twilight books because for 350 pages, there was nothing but infatuation.  I know it's supposed to pick up a lot in the chapter right after the one I stopped at, but I'm sorry, if there's NOTHING there for the length of a novel unto itself except "Edward's dreamy", and the promised payoff is that he's also shiny...

Ugh.

So, in conclusion - for this male at least - romance good if there's a plot.  Teenage infatuation without plot bad.  Me go hit wife with club, drag to cave tell cook meat for eat.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 02:36:31 AM by Gwyddyon »



Heradel

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I haven't read the Twilight series — Vampires rarely appeal to me for whatever reason, so my post in confined to the paragraph below.

What most girls/women want is to love and be loved in the way Edward loves Bella and Bella loves Edward. Mad love. True love. Happily Ever After Love. That can be hard to find because it's not what most men want. It's not your fantasy. You don't write books like this, you don't like books like this, you rarely even read books like this. The last male writer who wrote something like this (that springs to my mind) is Shakespeare.

A. To the point about the last male writer... William Goldman, Princess Bride. I'm sure there are many, many others. And there are certainly a lot of female writers that don't write the happy stuff.

B. On that same point, they usually died right after, or it was a deus ex machina to end the play — not exactly uplifting or affirming of the idea. And there's usually at least one couple where one of the partners is going to be miserable (or would be sans the machina). I've always though Measure for Measure is probably the best of his plays to figure out what he really thinks about human relationships (I saw it at the Folger a few seasons back, the look on Isabella's face at the end was so perfect.)

C. Points can be made about that happily-ever-after love existing full-stop in reality. In fiction, in my opinion, it usually only works well at the end of some epic romance where the story's ending.

There's a discussion somewhere in the nether reaches of the forum, past the char of flamewars past, beyond the skeletons and dust of avatars long forgotten, where we talked about what happened with Wash in Serenity, and then Whedon's whole relational complexes throughout his universes. In drama, when a character falls in that kind of love with a character that has that kind of love for them there's not much else to do dramatically. Whedon's great talent is making you believe that it's real, and letting just enough of it be real that it really hurts when he kills it somehow. Which is about the only way one can handle those great loves and have the story still keep going. It has a way of taking over the story, making the other bits errata — see the British Office.



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The usual male fantasy is not to find the one special woman to love and be with forever. For ya'll the fantasy is the brothel, the Playboy Mansion with you as Hugh Hefner, the harem with you as the Sheik, the 72 virgins in Paradise. Your fantasy is not to find that one special girl but to be surrounded by many, many women who like you and who will have sex with you with no complications. The fantasy for men is not finding true love, it’s being James Bond or someone like him and surrounded by Pussy Galore.

Generalize much, don't we?

Yeah, that's an...odd assumption.  And, honestly, a bit offensive.

Heradel's already brought up a great example with Goldman.  I'd also say Jonathan Lethem's As She Climbed Across the Table -- a book about a woman breaking up with a man over, literally, nothing, is one of the funniest meditations on relationships I've read in a while. 

I could rattle off a bunch of other writers, too, some that have been podcasted 'round here.  Tim Pratt's "Impossible Dreams".  Resnick's "Distant Replay." (Okay, lots of stuff by Resnick.)  Silverberg's "Now+1, Now-1." 

So, please, go easy on the stereotypes.


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I'm surprised that no-one's pointed out that it's equally offensive to assume that women want to find their One True Love and aren't at all interested in having casual sex with multiple attractive guys. It's a fantasy that several perfume commercials play to in exactly the same way that their male equivalents do (though admittedly with less frequency), so it's hardly an unheard-of idea.

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alllie

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Clearly not every girl is looking for true love, just every girl I know well enough to know if she is. And screwing around, that is just, for some girls, auditing guys for the true love position. But it's not everyone. That is why some women are annoyed by these books.

But let me ask the guys, if you could chose to have one girl to love and be loved by forever, or be someone like James Bond or Hugh Hefner, what would you choose?



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But let me ask the guys, if you could chose to have one girl to love and be loved by forever, or be someone like James Bond or Hugh Hefner, what would you choose?

The one woman.

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But let me ask the guys, if you could chose to have one girl to love and be loved by forever, or be someone like James Bond or Hugh Hefner, what would you choose?

I've never really liked either of those guys.  (Though I've heard Casino Royale is good.) 

True love is good for me.


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I'm surprised that no-one's pointed out that it's equally offensive to assume that women want to find their One True Love and aren't at all interested in having casual sex with multiple attractive guys. It's a fantasy that several perfume commercials play to in exactly the same way that their male equivalents do (though admittedly with less frequency), so it's hardly an unheard-of idea.

Very true.

Quote
But let me ask the guys, if you could chose to have one girl to love and be loved by forever, or be someone like James Bond or Hugh Hefner, what would you choose?

Door Number 1, without hesitation.  Although I'm not sure how relevant that is, anyway - let's say somebody prefers option 2.  Does that preclude them from being interested in stories involving "true love" (which I still think is far from an accurate representation of the first book, at the very least)?



alllie

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2.  Does that preclude them from being interested in stories involving "true love" (which I still think is far from an accurate representation of the first book, at the very least)?

Then why aren't movies and books about true love more popular with guys?



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2.  Does that preclude them from being interested in stories involving "true love" (which I still think is far from an accurate representation of the first book, at the very least)?

Then why aren't movies and books about true love more popular with guys?


As formulated by the great Barry, there is quite a large gulf between guys and men.

For the record, option one.

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I think it's kind of strange to pit those two options against each other. Personally I'm a born monogamist, and I'm all about partnerships. I met my husband when I was 20, and I probably won't have sex with anyone else in my life, and that doesn't bother me. But I imagine Steve, for instance, would say that he has a wife he loves very much and who he wants to spend the rest of his life with, and that his relationships with his other partners don't detract from that -- and more, that even though he has other partners, he cares about them, too.

I think it's kind of problematic to postulate monogamy and casual sex as opposites.

Also, for what it's worth, I as a female (and a female married monogamist) kind of can't stand stories about true love.



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But let me ask the guys, if you could chose to have one girl to love and be loved by forever, or be someone like James Bond or Hugh Hefner, what would you choose?

I have already chosen the one girl to love and be loved by forever.  Now, do I think we were pre-destined to be together and were promised to each other in a former life?  No.  I think we both could have met other people and been happy, but the fact is we chose each other, love each other, and are committed to love each other forever.

Then why aren't movies and books about true love more popular with guys?

One of my all time favorite movies is the 1996 version of Sabrina.  I also love Sleepless in Seattle and have to admit I was drawn into Titanic (the first viewing, anyway, after that it lost its charm and each viewing it becomes more farsical).

When I say I viewed Twilight to be "sappy romantic drivel" that doesn't mean I view all romance as drivel.  I love a good romantic story with compelling drama.  From what I've heard, Twilight doesn't fall into that category.  I think romance needs to be subtle and surprizing, not forced and maninulative.  I think a good romantic story involves insecurities and choices made for the other rather than self.  This is more interesting than: it was predestined, I can't help but be swept away, our love was written in the stars.  True love comes from consistant caring choices and hard emotional work.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 11:20:17 PM by Swamp »

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alllie

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When I say I viewed Twilight to be "sappy romantic drivel" that doesn't mean I view all romance as drivel.  I love a good romantic story with compelling drama.  From what I've heard, Twilight doesn't fall into that category.  I think romance needs to be subtle and surprizing, not forced and maninulative. 

I'm still trying to figure out the appeal of these books. I've read they sold 8 million but also that worldwide they have sold 40 million (not sure that is right). So a LOT of people, mostly women, have found them appealing. I can't figure it out myself, even though I found them addictive, crack in text form.



wintermute

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Clearly not every girl is looking for true love, just every girl I know well enough to know if she is. And screwing around, that is just, for some girls, auditing guys for the true love position. But it's not everyone. That is why some women are annoyed by these books.
A big chunk of this is socialisation; society tells girls that they're supposed to stay "pure" and "save themselves" until they find "the one", and boys are told that "boys will be boys" and that they have to "sow their wild oats. Without this, make and female attitudes to sex are far more similar than you seem to think. Stephanie Meyers and James Bond are causes as much as they're symptoms.
But let me ask the guys, if you could chose to have one girl to love and be loved by forever, or be someone like James Bond or Hugh Hefner, what would you choose?
Option one. That's why I got married.

Though, as Rachel says, they're not always incompatible.
The last male writer who wrote something like this (that springs to my mind) is Shakespeare.
Let's have a look at some popular movies that were written by men for men:
Die Hard (1988): John McLaine just wants to spend Christmas with his wife and save his marriage.
Flash Gordon (1980): Flash ignores the harem girls so he can rescue his One True Love and marry her.
Arlington Road (1999): The entire plot is driven by Faraday's grief over the senseless death of his wife.
Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure (1989): Bill and Ted (average horny teenagers) find their One True Loves, and rescue them from loveless marriages.
Blade Runner (1982): Deckard ignores the "standard pleasure model" and falls in love with Rachel, and they head off into the future together.
The Corpse Bride (2005): True love can transcend even death.
One Hour Photo (2002): Parrish obsesses over the woman he considers his One True Love, and never even notices any other woman.
Sean of the Dead (2005): Sean's first reaction on discovering that zombies have taken over the world is to save his ex-girlfriend, and get back together with her.
I am Legend (2007): A male zombie is fighting to get its One True Love back from Dr. Neville.

So, I think male-written, male-oriented fiction can go either way.
Like Katherine Heburn said once: "I often wonder whether men and women really suit each other. Perhaps they should live next door and just visit now and then."
You do realise that Katherine Hepburn was arguing for no-strings-attached sex with whatever guy she happened to be attracted to, right?

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stePH

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A big chunk of this is socialisation; society tells girls that they're supposed to stay "pure" and "save themselves" until they find "the one", and boys are told that "boys will be boys" and that they have to "sow their wild oats."

Did nobody see the inherent conflict here?  How are the boys supposed to "sow their wild oats" if all the girls are "staying pure and saving themselves?"  Maybe they were supposed to take the "women for babies, men for pleasure" attitude?  ;D

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