Author Topic: EP173: Robots Don’t Cry  (Read 39646 times)

contra

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Reply #25 on: September 03, 2008, 04:49:14 PM
I enjoyed the story greatly.

But I didn't cry.  Other stories have... (Edward Bear for one)

Ideas were great, story was interesting, robots concept was cool.  And I can see a robot following orders forever.  

I've never identified with those that settle places... my fav stories were always people that got into adventures from their normal life, not that went out there to find adventure or settle somewhere new.  Maybe its because I grew up in Stirling, a place with history going back thousands of years.  I identify with people in settled place, visiting others... Also I never played Oregon trail game when younger...

Who knows.  Still.  Enjoyable.


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Corydon

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Reply #26 on: September 03, 2008, 05:53:05 PM
Channeling my inner Oscar Wilde, I can confidently say that one must have a heart of stone to read the death of Miss Emily without laughing.

I'll cry at a moving story.  Melodrama and cliche?  Not so much.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 05:55:14 PM by Corydon »



hirozed

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Reply #27 on: September 03, 2008, 06:03:18 PM
I liked the story overall, even though it was predictable.  I appreciate the narrator's intention at the end. 
Miss Emily was a little bit of a whiner, and I cannot believe she was the only person on the planet suffering from at least some of her afflictions.  Even if she was rejected by the populous as a whole, there would be some kindred spirits, small settlement or not.  The question I have about it is whether Emily's diseases were because of the planet or she "came" with them.  If she was sick from the start, why would her parents choose to settle there?

I do appreciate that Steve chose the story because of the response he had to it, rather than any new or insightful quality that would have set it apart.  I also look to my overall feelings about a story, even if there are some clever twists.



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Reply #28 on: September 03, 2008, 06:52:23 PM
Channeling my inner Oscar Wilde, I can confidently say that one must have a heart of stone to read the death of Miss Emily without laughing.

I'll cry at a moving story.  Melodrama and cliche?  Not so much.

I quote Corydon, only as a springboard for some thoughts

I could be wrong, but I don't think the intended sympathy character was meant to be Miss Emily, but Sammy.  He was a devoted robot who came to love his charge, and was sad and lonely to lose her company.  I felt for him, not Miss Emily.

I don't think it is a requirement to cry, to feel something emotionally.  I have never cried reading a Mike Resnick story, but I have enjoy the emotion of his stories.  Granted this is not the best example; there is some melodrama with Miss Emily.  I think Down Memory Lane and Barnaby in Exile are better examples.  Still I enjoyed this story, on behalf of Sammy, and the eventual thoughtfulness of the narrator.

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WillMoo

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Reply #29 on: September 03, 2008, 07:06:39 PM
I liked this one. It was too predictable for me to get emotional over though. Why do robots always seem to either want to be like us or to exterminate us? They never seem to want to be themselves.



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Reply #30 on: September 03, 2008, 07:40:36 PM
Maybe I'm just a cynical bastard, but the girl character did not make grab me with her plight.  If anything, I thought she was too sympathetic to be believable. 

That kind of hits the nail on the head for my feelings on this story.  I like the premise (I'm always fond of the inhuman who is more human than the human stories), I liked the idea of intergalactic scrap dealers, I even enjoyed the banter between the human and the alien.

But what made me really hit the stumbling block for this was the girl and her problems.  It started out alright in the beginning, but especially in the end, it struck me as somewhat Diablos ex Machina.

Much as a Deus ex Machina is when something comes out of nowhere and makes everything better for no reason, to me a Diablos ex Machina is where something comes out of nowhere and makes everything worse for no reason.  Not only does is she missing a leg, but she's got a mess of diseases.  And she gets fungus that makes her ugly.  And the kids hate her.  And her parents die.  And the planet she's on is bad for farming.  And the government shafts them entirely.  And she's so sick she's an old bitter woman by the time she's thirty.

At some point, her problems become less tragic and more a parody, because it's hard to comprehend someone who's had that many bad things happen to them.  Especially when their response to an offer of help is to smack it down with "I just can't make them deal with the woe that is me!", which has been discussed already.

I think the story might have worked a lot better for me if her laundry list of problems had been somewhat decreased. 



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Reply #31 on: September 04, 2008, 12:35:57 AM
... But what made me really hit the stumbling block for this was the girl and her problems.  It started out alright in the beginning, but especially in the end, it struck me as somewhat Diablos ex Machina.

Much as a Deus ex Machina is when something comes out of nowhere and makes everything better for no reason, to me a Diablos ex Machina is where something comes out of nowhere and makes everything worse for no reason.  Not only does is she missing a leg, but she's got a mess of diseases.  And she gets fungus that makes her ugly.  And the kids hate her.  And her parents die.  And the planet she's on is bad for farming.  And the government shafts them entirely.  And she's so sick she's an old bitter woman by the time she's thirty.


Yeah, really. I haven't seen such a string of misfortune since reading the book of Job in the Olde Testamente of teh Holye Bibele.

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Cerebrilith

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Reply #32 on: September 04, 2008, 12:48:03 AM
Ugh...could Miss Emily have been any more pathetic?  At first I had sympathy for the little cripple girl but that soon evaporated when woe after woe was dumped upon this kid.  She's covered in horrible fungus, she's rejected in love, the family farm goes bust time and again, her parents die, her world dies, she rejects her offworld family because she feels they're too good to be burdened with her, she's covered in pustules, she goes blind, she dies alone with the robot who's only there because he was built to be.

The unending parade of sob stories broke all suspension of disbelief and I spent more time thinking about what was going through the author's mind when he felt all of that was necessary then I spent caring about what the characters did.



veganvampire

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Reply #33 on: September 04, 2008, 02:55:02 AM
I loved the story, and only had one question: Why was this rated R?

A theory about Sammy's tears: I, personally, can't cry when I'm sad.  When I'm frusturated, sometimes I cry, but when someone who I love is sick or dead, (or while listening to/reading sad stories, like this one) I just feel sad without crying.  I think that Sammy just wanted to get the "really sad emotion," and didn't care so much about the actual tears.

But if he was programmed as a caregiver to understand emotions, he probably thinks that "tears" are connected to "sad."  When there is a sad child, she has tears.  If the child has tears, she is sad.  What Miss Emily told him about tears coming from the soul probably just confused him.  When she died, he felt like it was his duty to cry "from his soul," and because of his programming, he thought that you can only cry with tears, which he had none of.  And even if he had tears, he had no soul.

Poor guy.  I think he viewed it as not surving his charge.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 03:02:40 AM by veganvampire »



deflective

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Reply #34 on: September 04, 2008, 09:31:52 AM
wow. way to pick on a sick woman guys. =P

she had a defective immune system. these weren't random events that happened to her, they were all symptoms of one defect exasperated by poverty.

the robot chose to show us the pivotal moments in her (and its) life. the time when, as a teenager, she first realized she would probably never be loved like a woman. her decision to remain alone because after a lifetime it's what she was used to. unhappy moments that could be seen as whining but these were the reasons why she was isolated; bitter times for the nanny bot but at some level it probably knew that these were also the reasons why it could stay with her.

Why do robots always seem to either want to be like us or to exterminate us? They never seem to want to be themselves.

definitely agree



Talia

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Reply #35 on: September 04, 2008, 11:41:20 AM
I liked this one. It was too predictable for me to get emotional over though. Why do robots always seem to either want to be like us or to exterminate us? They never seem to want to be themselves.

Well, theoretically, they don't have "selves" to be. In most fiction, robots to some degree are developed by the people they are surrounded by. They don't have personalities of their own because they aren't built to.



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Reply #36 on: September 04, 2008, 03:55:57 PM
I liked the story.

I must also comment that I saw Mike Resnick on a panel at Dragon*Con called "101 Delectable Ways to Kill Your Character."  Mike said at one point that he felt out of place on the panel, because he wrote SF and not thrillers.

I think Miss Emily and Sammy would both have to disagree.

He killed Miss Emily in a pretty nasty way, piling (as has been said before, here) woe after woe upon her until she died in pain and loneliness with only The Tin Man as a companion.

And Sammy effectively committed suicide because of inexpressible sorrow.

I was going to go speak to Mike after the panel and tell him how much I've enjoyed his stories on Escape Pod, but I wasn't sure how to say, "I love your stories! You torture your characters in a most wonderful way!" and not sound like a weirdo. :)

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alllie

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Reply #37 on: September 04, 2008, 05:50:44 PM
I think we are pretty lucky if we find Ms. Emily's life weird and unbelievable. Lots of people in the world live lives just as bad or worse than she did.



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Reply #38 on: September 04, 2008, 06:24:29 PM
I liked the story.

I must also comment that I saw Mike Resnick on a panel at Dragon*Con called "101 Delectable Ways to Kill Your Character."  Mike said at one point that he felt out of place on the panel, because he wrote SF and not thrillers.

I think Miss Emily and Sammy would both have to disagree.

He killed Miss Emily in a pretty nasty way, piling (as has been said before, here) woe after woe upon her until she died in pain and loneliness with only The Tin Man as a companion.

And Sammy effectively committed suicide because of inexpressible sorrow.

I was going to go speak to Mike after the panel and tell him how much I've enjoyed his stories on Escape Pod, but I wasn't sure how to say, "I love your stories! You torture your characters in a most wonderful way!" and not sound like a weirdo. :)

.. and what's wrong with sounding like a weirdo?

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ieDaddy

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Reply #39 on: September 04, 2008, 08:09:58 PM
Well, this story made me laugh - probably not the appropriate response.  I just couldn't get my head into the story enough to care about Ms. Emily and her "oh woe is me, I'm diseased and ugly, I don't want to inflict myself on others, I shall stay here and die."

Anyway, when Mike started piling on the diseases - well, I laughed - after all, isn't comedy just other people's pain?  and I thought it got to the point of ridiculous.

When I did managed to get into the story - I felt bad for Sammy for being stuck with such a rotten owner who would sacrifice her companion robot and tell it not to abandon her - even though she knew she was going to die/commit suicide on Greenwillow.  It really had an AI (the movie) resonance and I was just waiting for Sammy to say "I just want to be a real boy, can you take me to the blue fairy?" or a Robbie the Robot flair with Ms. Emily being Gloria.

Instead, he asked to be able to cry.  When they fit him with tear ducts so he can dribble water down his face I was so disappointed.  I was expecting something along the lines of an emotion chip a la Data from Star Trek:TNG or at least something more that fitting a couple of tubes into his face.  Then I thought maybe they were going to go down the road of physical vs. emotional crying and what it means to be sad - I guess Sammy at some point could have made the connection that having tubes dribble water would never make him cry as it's emotions - but at this point I was only half listening).  And when he sits there and tries to cry I was thinking "well, he's going to turn them on like windshield wiper blades and realize he doesn't have the emotion to go with it".  But when they don't even turn on - again, I was confused because turning the pump on would be just flipping a switch as they didn't do any real programing of emotions to Sammy - so why would it not at least function from a mechanical point?  I would have even enjoyed a dissertation on how an alien/human team has forgotten the meaning of sadness and crying and it being more than physical (which is where I thought the alien partner was going to come in.  As it is, I think the alien distracted from the story more than moving it along because I kept expecting something more from the alien - Actually, any kind of insight would have been nice).

Instead, they buried the poor mis-used robot. I was confused about why the Baroni was in the story rather than a human other than another checkmark in the sci-fi checklist of things to have in a sci-fi story.  And, I just felt very sad that of all the ways it could have ended - that's the way it did.  I kept thinking - hey, it's a robot - instead of burying it just hit the factory hard reset like I do with my PDA then it's off to relive a productive life with another caring family, but maybe that's my inner pack-rat coming out saying never throw anything away...

I think writing this post probably evoked more thinking than the actual story.



Void Munashii

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Reply #40 on: September 04, 2008, 08:10:51 PM
  This story should have been really dull; nothing much really happened, and the ending was somewhat predictable, so why did i like it so much?

  I feel proud that I did not tear up at this one (thank you very much for the warning at the beginning, although I generally assume now that if it is a Resnick story, I should prepare myself for sorrow), but I do understand why some people might.

  I  have come to the conclusion that Resnick stories are like a crystal rose; lovingly crafted things of true beauty... but you have to watch out for the darned thorns.

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WillMoo

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Reply #41 on: September 04, 2008, 08:37:11 PM
I liked this one. It was too predictable for me to get emotional over though. Why do robots always seem to either want to be like us or to exterminate us? They never seem to want to be themselves.

Well, theoretically, they don't have "selves" to be. In most fiction, robots to some degree are developed by the people they are surrounded by. They don't have personalities of their own because they aren't built to.
I thought that the implication that it was once they achieved sentience was obvious. I am thinking about writing a story where the robots become fully self aware, realize how screwed up humans are and just pack up and leave.



Kaa

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Reply #42 on: September 04, 2008, 08:43:11 PM
I am thinking about writing a story where the robots become fully self aware, realize how screwed up humans are and just pack up and leave.

Cylons, anyone? :)

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ieDaddy

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Reply #43 on: September 04, 2008, 08:45:57 PM
I liked this one. It was too predictable for me to get emotional over though. Why do robots always seem to either want to be like us or to exterminate us? They never seem to want to be themselves.

Well, theoretically, they don't have "selves" to be. In most fiction, robots to some degree are developed by the people they are surrounded by. They don't have personalities of their own because they aren't built to.
I thought that the implication that it was once they achieved sentience was obvious. I am thinking about writing a story where the robots become fully self aware, realize how screwed up humans are and just pack up and leave.

Would that be skynet?



wintermute

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Reply #44 on: September 05, 2008, 12:35:53 AM
I am thinking about writing a story where the robots become fully self aware, realize how screwed up humans are and just pack up and leave.
Cylons, anyone? :)
Would that be skynet?
I think both Cylons and Skynet fall into the "exterminate us" category. what with both of them launching a war with the explicitly stated goal of making humans extinct.

But I'm probably reading a little too much into a friendly genocide...

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WillMoo

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Reply #45 on: September 05, 2008, 12:55:19 PM
I am thinking about writing a story where the robots become fully self aware, realize how screwed up humans are and just pack up and leave.
Cylons, anyone? :)
Would that be skynet?
I think both Cylons and Skynet fall into the "exterminate us" category. what with both of them launching a war with the explicitly stated goal of making humans extinct.

But I'm probably reading a little too much into a friendly genocide...
Exactly, both of them want to exterminate humans. "Friendly genocide"??

Maybe they would just leave a note on our galactic pillow the morning after the conception, leaving us to wait by the SETI dishes for their call. I mean really! They could at least send flowers!



cuddlebug

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Reply #46 on: September 05, 2008, 04:10:53 PM
Hey, has anyone seen this (sorry, if someone has already posted it): Rogun the robot-babysitter by Korean gadget company CornTech.

Hmm, not sure I would want this to take care of my kids, not that I have any of course, but I would want my children to learn to relate to other children and to adults, not to robots, which/who only keep them entertained by showing them videos. Well, I do love gadgets and would love to play around with it, take it apart ... I am sure that would make it cry. If not that then probably the dog peeing on it would. (The dog that I can't have now but that would be part of the fictional family I have in mind.)

Oh, and here is the link to the company, in case anyone is interested.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 04:13:31 PM by cuddlebug »



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Reply #47 on: September 07, 2008, 11:39:19 AM
It's a very rare and special moment when a short story makes you really sit back and reflect, like a a small bullet of emotion.

This short story was no exception, one of my favourite Escape Pods to date.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 11:52:38 AM by TristanPEJ »

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evo.shandor

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Reply #48 on: September 07, 2008, 07:22:15 PM
I didn't enjoy this piece, although I did like Resnick's earlier EP outing "The Big Guy."  The girl's pain seemed too easy -- just throw a lot of maladies at her.  And I did not believe or follow the bot's developing emotions.  For what was supposed to be a tear-jerker, it moved along like stereo instructions.

I had expected the tear ducts to be inserted and the bot to cry...and cry...and cry...and make it useless for any resale value, but eventually find someone new to care for as a nursemad since that is the human condition: We lose people we love, but most move on and overcome.  As for the main character, he I had hoped he would decide not to sell the machine (i.e., slavery), but to let it free to follow its own wants.

Alternatively, tell this story from the alien's POV -- that would really have been interesting.  All in all, there were no original idea (except for salvaging abandoned world for "antiques", which I think was a great idea) and no emotion resonance for me.

But can I suggest to Mr. Eley putting a moratorium on Mr. Resnick's work?  He has appeared 11 times (one of those, "The Sweet, Sad Love Song of Fred and Wilma", being co-authored with Nick Dichario) on Escape Pod, which is two more than Jeffrey R. DeRego with nine appearances, many of those the Union Dues stories.  There are two other writers who have appeared five times (Paul E. Martens and Robert Silverberg) and five writers who have had four stories published (Janni Lee Simner, Jonathon Sullivan, Nancy Kress, Tim Pratt and Christmas Story favorite Mur Lafferty).

I enjoy Escape Pod as an anthology, getting to sample different writers and discovering some I never would have run across, but the repeats bog me down.  I do not mind a Kristine Kathryn Rusch or Robert J. Sawyer story now and then, but there are some great up and coming SF writers who deserve the exposure they might not otherwise get.  In Metacast #3, Steve said Escape Pod is "a major force in the science fiction genre," but how can it be that when we are getting stories we can find elsewhere from writers who are finding their own success?  That is, Escape Pod strikes me more like echoing major forces in sci-fi rather than being its own force.  I realize as an editor Steve has his own preferences, which are reflected in the stories selected for Escape Pod, but how about some new voices rather than "SF's most award winning author" ad infinitum?

Granted, Steve can only publish that which is submitted to him.  So, to all you writers out there, send Steve your stuff!!!



veganvampire

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Reply #49 on: September 08, 2008, 12:13:30 AM
Alternatively, tell this story from the alien's POV

Now that you mention it, I would have liked to have seen that!