Author Topic: PC023: Moon Viewing at Shijo Bridge - PodCastle Giant  (Read 36912 times)

Kaa

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Reply #25 on: September 10, 2008, 07:43:46 PM
I think this story is the one I've enjoyed the most to date on Podcastle.  I'm not usually into this type of story, but this one grabbed me right from the start.

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JoeFitz

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Reply #26 on: September 11, 2008, 02:37:34 AM
From a fantasy perspective (and the voice of Lyle Konkiel just echoed in my head as I wrote that), I felt the fantastical elements were given very short shrift. It's like... okay... there are demons and monsters and ghosts, but aside from that one ghost that gives the information to Lord Yamada and the monsters the prince (I forget his name) fight, there's really no NEED for the fantasy. Had there been an informant that could've been bribed with food or money, had there been mercenary guards, had the CONCEPT of ghosts been discussed without actually seeing them, I think the story would've been just as good, if not better -- and the whole thing with the demons... I felt a little cheated not seeing more of them. I feel that for a fantasy or sci-fi story to really justify the genre label, SF or F needs to be a part of the climax, even if it's not the point of the story... and in this story, it wasn't. Lord Yamada simply washed off the ink, then pulled a Scooby Doo ending on the princess's brother.

Not that I place much stock in the "is this genre?" debates, I have to agree with you that this one struck me as pretty marginally fantasy. That's okay, personally, because it was still a great story, all in all (though historical fiction is not my cup of tea generally).



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Reply #27 on: September 11, 2008, 04:01:18 AM
Not that I place much stock in the "is this genre?" debates, I have to agree with you that this one struck me as pretty marginally fantasy. That's okay, personally, because it was still a great story, all in all (though historical fiction is not my cup of tea generally).


It's certainly identifiable as fantasy, however marginal the fantasy elements might have been -- unlike "It Takes A Town".

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Coyote

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Reply #28 on: September 12, 2008, 04:50:09 AM
I have yet to listen to the story, so I skipped over the other posts so as not to ruin my enjoyment, but as soon as I saw the Giant concept, I jumped up and down clapping my hands together like a little girl. I mean, this is exactly what I've been looking for! I love longer stories, and they tend to be my favorites, just because it feels like there is more room for the author to stretch their legs and explore both their characters and world. This goes for all the podcasts, Flat Diane is almost definitely my favorite Pseudopod story, and Robots and Falling Hearts holds a special place for me.

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Left of Duck

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Reply #29 on: September 14, 2008, 09:42:34 AM
Also, this story made me want to go play Onimusha, despite the fact that I sorta hated the game, but I liked it too. In Onimusha 2 was the worst. I don't mind getting my butt kicked my a throng of demons, or my butt handed to me by the greatest demon swordsman ever,

I AM GORGONDANTESS, THE GREATEST SWORDSMAN OF THE DEMON WORLD!! (I had to...)

Anyway...

I'm a big fan of japanese stories and history (and of the Onimusha games, actually), and I loved hearing this story. The longer form was perfect and I look forward to more since I regularly listen to podcasts this long anyway. I agree that this wasn't all that fantastic, but I like me a subtle Japanese fantasy. The "my son" bit worked perfectly for me, threw me off quite a bit. I had no idea it was coming (as I rarely do with such things, I'm very susceptable to plot twists).



stePH

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Reply #30 on: September 14, 2008, 02:24:54 PM
Yay.  Nice story, and I really enjoyed the reading.  I was actually wondering about the paternity of the prince, so the "my son" bit worked well for me.

I just assumed that the prince's father was Teiko's former husband.

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MacArthurBug

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Reply #31 on: September 14, 2008, 03:11:18 PM
I really enjoyed this first giant cast.  The reader really brought life to the story, and I loved how the ending twisted from what I had expected.  Delicious.  Plus, I am such a sucker for good asian fantasy.  (Though I suppose, given the stories you guys have seen from me, you know that already.)

I did not listen to this story for a commute, but used it to get me through laundry folding and a ton of filing at home.  It made these onerous tasks really enjoyable.

Thanks for running this one!

Hmm

PS Now I am going to have to look up that Emperor... You know a story is good when you get so excited by it you want to indulge in spontaneous research to enrich your understanding of it.

Madam Hmm,

This is fabulous- I too am driven to spontanious resurch. Tho not always by good stories sometimes all it takes is a good idea in a story.  I did LOVE this story and also went "to the books!" (I'm sure that'd be my superhero cry) to find out a bit more.

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ryos

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Reply #32 on: September 16, 2008, 06:46:31 PM
I found the beginning of this story slow, dull, and laden with unnecessary detail. I just kept thinking, "Urgk, politics. Bo-ring." But I know that long stories often start slowly, so I decided to stick with it. Boy am I glad I did, because the middle and end are fantastic.

I liked how the protagonist's description of himself as a donkey sort of set a tone for the story, and recurred subtly several times, including towards the end when he calls himself an enormous ass. I loved the powerful ending that recast the entire story. I loved how, though we saw little of what Princess Taiko (yeah, I suck at Japanese phonetics) actually did, she was richly characterized for us through the eyes of her brother and lover.

Most of all, though, I find myself at a loss for words to describe why I loved this story. I can point to very few elements and say, "Yes, that's it; that's what made it great." There are too many tiny things that pull together to create in me a gushing, nearly irrational positive reaction. This is my new favorite Podcastle.

That doesn't change my opinion that it could have been edited down, just a little; the beginning could have had more of a hook; but overall I must say to the author, "Well played". I'll be checking out those links in the liner notes for sure.



Loz

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Reply #33 on: September 17, 2008, 05:59:05 AM
I seem to be swimming against the tide here as I cared little for the story but enjoyed Steve Anderson's reading of it. It was most exciting at the little swashbucking moment of fighting the ghosts but I found I didn't really care about the court or it's intrigues.



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Reply #34 on: September 17, 2008, 08:33:42 PM
I'm with the "WOW" crowd on this one!  I also listen while I work so all I had to do was slate some partially mundane coding for the 90 minutes and there I was!

The reading brought me into the world which was well built and let me feel like I was one of those benign spirits, floating behind the heads of the characters.  Excellent plot, I thought, with the court intrigue and the spirit world wound together to an ending that caught me completely off-guard!

If you like stories like this, I'll recommend In the Service of Samurai by Gloria Oliver, http://www.gloriaoliver.com/samurai.html which has a free audio version by Podiobooks.com at http://www.podiobooks.com/title/in-the-service-of-samurai


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eytanz

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Reply #35 on: September 17, 2008, 08:41:25 PM
Great story! I really loved it. And I enjoyed the fact that it had the room to expand. In the beginning I was skeptical about the "giant" concept - not because I didn't want longer stories, but because I didn't feel they needed a special category; I thought PC could just run them when they felt natural without labelling them. But after hearing the story, I realized that the label did adjust my expectations - I wasn't expecting to hear something paced like a short story, so rather than the exposition and detail level bothering me, it drew me in.

My one nit was that the twist was so glaringly obvious that I felt insulted that the story waited until the very last sentence to "reveal" it. I realize that explicit confirmation had to wait at least until the narrator learnt the prince's paternity, but I would have appreciated if the author had the grace to assume I'd figure it out earlier than that, and certainly not postpone the reveal through the entire climax and denoument.



stePH

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Reply #36 on: September 18, 2008, 01:13:32 PM
My one nit was that the twist was so glaringly obvious that I felt insulted that the story waited until the very last sentence to "reveal" it. I realize that explicit confirmation had to wait at least until the narrator learnt the prince's paternity, but I would have appreciated if the author had the grace to assume I'd figure it out earlier than that, and certainly not postpone the reveal through the entire climax and denoument.

We're not all so perceptive and insightful.

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eytanz

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Reply #37 on: September 18, 2008, 02:04:55 PM
My one nit was that the twist was so glaringly obvious that I felt insulted that the story waited until the very last sentence to "reveal" it. I realize that explicit confirmation had to wait at least until the narrator learnt the prince's paternity, but I would have appreciated if the author had the grace to assume I'd figure it out earlier than that, and certainly not postpone the reveal through the entire climax and denoument.

We're not all so perceptive and insightful.

Well, I don't think I am particularly perceptive and/or insightful, which is why I thought that the fact that the kid's parentage seemed very obvious to me meant it was so for everyone. Guess not.



slic

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Reply #38 on: September 18, 2008, 08:21:36 PM
My one nit was that the twist was so glaringly obvious that I felt insulted that the story waited until the very last sentence to "reveal" it. I realize that explicit confirmation had to wait at least until the narrator learnt the prince's paternity, but I would have appreciated if the author had the grace to assume I'd figure it out earlier than that, and certainly not postpone the reveal through the entire climax and denoument.

We're not all so perceptive and insightful.

Well, I don't think I am particularly perceptive and/or insightful, which is why I thought that the fact that the kid's parentage seemed very obvious to me meant it was so for everyone. Guess not.
I think that a twist ending is something that listeners often expect, and in this case, as an option for a twist, it was a pretty clear one.  The author was subtle in the way he hinted about the level of

Personally, I think it would have been a better story without the last line.  Lord Kamata (sp?) would have taken care of her son no matter the parentage, she had him wrapped around her finger enough already.  If anything it went further to make Lady whatshername even more of a heartless controlling schemer.



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Reply #39 on: September 18, 2008, 08:54:19 PM
For the record, i was pretty clear on the "twist" well in advance.  To the point where it was revealed and presented in the tone of a Big Deal my reaction was "...oh ya, guess they never explicitly said that before, have they?"

And I don't think it *needed* to be explicitly said, either.  But it didn't hurt it for me.



eytanz

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Reply #40 on: September 18, 2008, 09:14:00 PM
Oh, I disagree. I think the twist itself - though not, as I said above, it's manner of presentation - added a lot to the story.

For one, it showed that the entire deception was necessary from the princess's POV. Her son was illegitimate, and someone might have discovered evidence. She needed to act pre-emptively.

It also explains - though not, at least not to our morality, justifies - why she cast out the narrator when they were young. She probably discovered her pregnancy, and needed to be rid of him before anyone could make the connection.

Finally, it does show that her priorities very clearly placed her son's future over that of her lover. But the fact that she told him means that she both trusted him to make the right choice (as opposed to him taking revenge on her, as the brother suggested), and that she wanted him to know what her priorities were. Remember, she gave him a letter that admits the boy is a bastard. The story made it entirely clear that such a letter would destroy everything she worked for. The fact that she did so, giving him that power over the son and her entire enterprise, was crucial for the story having the impact it had, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 09:24:40 PM by eytanz »



slic

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Reply #41 on: September 18, 2008, 11:48:36 PM
I'm not a cynical bastard, and I really am happily married, but I doubt she expected him to behave any different than he did.

Sure he had the letter - after she died.  That level of guilt alone was more than enough to get him to take care of the boy, whether or not it was his.  And frankly, after everything else she did, how do you know she was being truthful?  Maybe she was just making extra certain.

And really what would he have done? "Oh by the way, family-of-the-guy-I-totally-detest, the heir to the throne is a bastard, and my true love is a slut"

I really should say for the record that I really enjoyed the story - well written, well paced.  I'd listen to more like it.  I just thought the hero was a little love-struck-gullible is all



alllie

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Reply #42 on: September 19, 2008, 10:20:21 PM
I couldn't get all of this. forty minutes was the most I could get to play.



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Reply #43 on: September 23, 2008, 04:28:28 PM
My one nit was that the twist was so glaringly obvious that I felt insulted that the story waited until the very last sentence to "reveal" it. I realize that explicit confirmation had to wait at least until the narrator learnt the prince's paternity, but I would have appreciated if the author had the grace to assume I'd figure it out earlier than that, and certainly not postpone the reveal through the entire climax and denoument.

I thought the prince being his son was SO obvious that I didn't even realize it was supposed to be a twist.  I thought the last line was just wrapping up loose ends, a confirmation rather than a reveal, and didn't place much weight on it (and therefore wasn't irritated).

And to forestall Steph, I don't feel I'm a particularly perceptive or insightful listener.  I miss as much as the next guy and have my share of "OH! Is that what that means?" moments and am surprised at how things play out just about as often as anyone else. 

I dug the poetry.  And I usually don't like poetry, but all symbolic and oblique and reflective of the symbolic and oblique culture, it worked well.

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Dwango

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Reply #44 on: September 23, 2008, 09:12:26 PM
I love the oriental tales the best of the fantasy I've heard.  They are exotic and familiar at the same time, a great bread from Tolkien feudal stories, without going too far afield.  This one was a beautiful story and I was captured by its spell.  It was somewhat predictable, but it was told so well that I did not mind.  I love the view of the spirits in the world as they worked to really differentiate the world, much more than the standard court intrigue.  Also, the poetry was a nice touch, reminding me of the songs Tolkien had in his stories.  Prose can't catch all the emotion that poetry can.



stePH

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Reply #45 on: September 23, 2008, 09:55:17 PM
I thought the prince being his son was SO obvious that I didn't even realize it was supposed to be a twist.  I thought the last line was just wrapping up loose ends, a confirmation rather than a reveal, and didn't place much weight on it (and therefore wasn't irritated).

And to forestall Steph, I don't feel I'm a particularly perceptive or insightful listener.  I miss as much as the next guy and have my share of "OH! Is that what that means?" moments and am surprised at how things play out just about as often as anyone else. 

Another possibility is that I'm just really really thick.  It's a possibility that I've considered off and on for years now.

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Reply #46 on: September 29, 2008, 04:45:55 AM

Coming to this a bit late, but I really loved the story.  I thought it made good use of its length, and while the fantasy element was weak and peripheral, I thought it added substantially to the alieness and "otherness" of a story set in a culture of a distant time and (for me, anyway) place.  Part of the way I knew I was in feudal Japan was that people worried about demons and ghosts; they're part of the atmosphere, just like the swords, armor and court protocol.

While I thought this story amply justified the time spent, I'm glad that "giants" will come only once a quarter or so.  It's hard for me to come up with that much time to listen, and there's a lot of competition for those listening opportunities.

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wintermute

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Reply #47 on: September 29, 2008, 11:52:25 AM
I think this might be in the wrong thread?

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Windup

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Reply #48 on: September 29, 2008, 12:47:57 PM

I think this might be in the wrong thread?


Yes, it was.  I removed it and relocated it to How the World Became Quiet.  Thanks.

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Reply #49 on: October 02, 2008, 03:29:22 AM
I It doesnt help that Steve Anderson was the reader, no offense to the man but i have to resist the urge to fall asleep when he reads stories, everything just comes off as dull and flat

Agreed.  Story was decent but his readings always kill me.  Too deliberite maybe.  Is that the word I'm looking for?  I don't know but not my favorite narrator.