Author Topic: EP179: Arties Aren’t Stupid  (Read 30748 times)

wintermute

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Reply #25 on: October 15, 2008, 05:08:49 PM
hatton: Yeah, the speech patterns did put me in mind of Joanna Goanna.

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Praxis

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Reply #26 on: October 15, 2008, 11:57:34 PM
Oooooohhhhhhh.

Arties as in Arties, rather than arties as in artificial.




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Reply #27 on: October 17, 2008, 12:24:21 PM
i got a minute into the story before i gave up, i simply couldnt understand half of was being said.

Accent of the reader has killed story for me as well. I really tried to listen, but it was just too frustrating to post analising every expression that was read. Please if possible try to avoid heavy accented readers.



Corydon

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Reply #28 on: October 17, 2008, 03:18:38 PM
Hmm, I listened to the first fifteen minutes or so, then was interrupted, but had no desire to pick it up and listen to the end of the story; it just didn't do anything for me.  I will say that I thought that the reader's accent was a good match for the story, its foreignness (to an American ear) emphasizing the foreignness of the story's vocabulary.  But that wasn't enough to make me care about the story.

Anyway, now that I've seen the volume of positive responses, I'll give the second half a shot...



Father Beast

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Reply #29 on: October 17, 2008, 08:17:06 PM
I had the same problem as a lot of people in not understanding. the odd slang added to the accent made it difficult to follow at first. Then I got into it and I didn't have as big a problem. However, there must have been important stuff I missed out on understanding in the beginning, because I never did understand more than a basic idea of what was going on. Were these street kids, left to roam by their parents? Were they semi-homeless adults? I followed the events fairly okay, and enjoyed the jailbreak and bio-revolution in the streets, but when SFEley made comments in the outro about specialized children, I had no idea what he was talking about.



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Reply #30 on: October 17, 2008, 09:25:00 PM
I loved this story. I loved the street revolution with little animals and plants.  And Boo's melodic voice. 

For me, the narration felt very complimentary. I wasn't overwhelmed listening to this the way I was say "Cinderella Suicide" (one of my faves) or "Other People's Money."

Great pick. Thanks for bringing this one to us.

ETA: Clarifying typos
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 10:13:43 PM by DKT »



Praxis

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Reply #31 on: October 17, 2008, 09:44:58 PM
To all the people who have commented that the reader's accent made the podcasts unlistenable because it was too different........this is a worldwide podcast and in the world there are many english speaking accents.

A podcast where the stories are kept uniform and from one particular country is a parochial one.
(yes I know that the USA is a mighty big place but the whole world is bigger.) 

learn to cope with differences a bit more, the accent even of this reader is listenable even if it sounds strange at first blush, I guarantee it.



Thaurismunths

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Reply #32 on: October 17, 2008, 10:12:04 PM
I had the same problem as a lot of people in not understanding. the odd slang added to the accent made it difficult to follow at first. Then I got into it and I didn't have as big a problem. However, there must have been important stuff I missed out on understanding in the beginning, because I never did understand more than a basic idea of what was going on. Were these street kids, left to roam by their parents? Were they semi-homeless adults? I followed the events fairly okay, and enjoyed the jailbreak and bio-revolution in the streets, but when SFEley made comments in the outro about specialized children, I had no idea what he was talking about.
It seems that the kids were engineered either by either their parents or a higher organization. They were genetically engineered for specific traits: intelligence, strength, creativity. The Arties (created to be artistic) were all 'broken' in some way and were more-or-less ignored by their parents. The Arties were also addicted to the act of creation and had to find different ways to satisfy that need with what little resources were present in the highly structured society. The ringleader found, somehow, genengineering kits and the fun began.

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ryos

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Reply #33 on: October 20, 2008, 12:25:33 AM
I found a couple of things in this story disturbing.

1. Even in the far future, we're still using "MP3 players". I for one hope to see MP3's go the way of the cassette tape in my lifetime.

2. The arties couldn't read, and had probably had never been to any type of school. Haven't these people heard of edumacation? Why were they treated as a menace, needing to steal supplies to survive? They had "parents" who would feed and shelter them when they came home, but they couldn't give them art supplies? WTF?

Actually, all the gengineered kids were neglected. The brainiacs were bored! Were the justplains running things really so stupid that they couldn't figure out how to keep super intellects busy?

So, yeah, good story. Great reading. At first, the combination of New Zealand accent and high slang density rendered the whole thing incomprehensible, but I just kept listening and let my brain's language processor sort it out. Soon enough all was clear. :)



Windup

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Reply #34 on: October 20, 2008, 01:04:56 AM

On some reflection, I wonder if these kids were "damaged" rather than being the "normal" result of specialized genetic engineering.  I think maybe the ones in the story are all "bad makes" that aren't quite bad enough to go back in the vat -- or whose parents have ethical compunctions or who violated warranties. 

Perhaps they are very extreme manifestions of their engineered prototypes -- "Arties" were supposed to be regular kids with a flair for color and form, but because of an error in creation or development, they turned out to be so extreme that their "just plain" parents can't understand them or care for them properly.  Ditto "Brainiacs." They were supposed to be unusually intelligent, but instead became distorted and required special care the parents may not always be able to provide.  They seem to be a little better off than the Arties -- who seem almost feral -- perhaps because they have more recognizable value.

So, what we are seeing is not mainstream society, but a sub-group of extremes.  Just a thought...


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ryos

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Reply #35 on: October 20, 2008, 01:30:07 AM
Quote
On some reflection, I wonder if these kids were "damaged" rather than being the "normal" result of specialized genetic engineering.  I think maybe the ones in the story are all "bad makes" that aren't quite bad enough to go back in the vat -- or whose parents have ethical compunctions or who violated warranties. 

It occurs to me that the comment by the justplains when the arties broke in to take Niles - "But we need him!" - is revealing. The perception given us by the arties is that his abduction was punitive, but it looks like they wanted to study him. I get the feeling they were trying to see what went right with Niles as he had exceeded their expectations. It kind of recasts things for me - maybe the arties' isolation was part of the experiment: to see what they would do when driven to extremes.



wintermute

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Reply #36 on: October 20, 2008, 12:13:12 PM
1. Even in the far future, we're still using "MP3 players". I for one hope to see MP3's go the way of the cassette tape in my lifetime.
MP3s may well disappear, but the term "MP3 player" is engrained into the zeitgeist and will probably survive any change in actual format. Almost all of my music is in OGG format, but I still refer to my player as an MP3 player, just because I don't want to have to explain what "DAP" means.

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Corydon

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Reply #37 on: October 20, 2008, 12:39:07 PM
1. Even in the far future, we're still using "MP3 players". I for one hope to see MP3's go the way of the cassette tape in my lifetime.

If I remember correctly, the MP3 player was mentioned specifically as something archaic; most people in this future weren't using them.



MacArthurBug

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Reply #38 on: October 20, 2008, 02:34:24 PM
Ok, apparently my listening to Chasing the Bard (written by the reader, and read by her as well) made her accent a non-issue for me. Pip has such a smooth voice that it's never bothered me. I'm also pretty used to accents- even enjoy most of them. The flow and symmetry of this story blew me away. I loved the 'feeling' invoked- and the slang. More stories like this one would be awesome, if I knew where to find written fiction like this I'd be on it in a hot minute. This defiantly invoked a world full of places for the imagination to wander off and play in well after the story was through.

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Listener

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Reply #39 on: October 20, 2008, 08:40:21 PM
Everyone's said everything I want to say. I think the made-up language was done with a deft-enough touch that it wasn't overpowering.

So was this NYC? Was the library with the statues referring to the lion outside the NY Public Library (the iconic one in The Wiz and Ghostbusters)?

No problems with the narration.

Another thing I noticed when listening to Mur Lafferty's "Playing for Keeps": keeping track of more than two or three characters in the same scene is also more difficult in audio form than in print. Scott Sigler deals with this in his podcasts by doing different voices for each character and sometimes digitally altering his own voice. This works most of the time, but the falsetto he uses for some female voices is annoying.

Any thoughts on the format of podcasting itself and how it affects stories? How does the medium affect the message?

I think that certain stories that are great to read but don't necessarily lend themselves to audio are severely hurt by podcasting/being read. By the same token, stories that are only passable can be made better by the reading. For example, EP169 (the one where Steve played the dog) was probably only a "good" story, but with the reading Steve did, he acted it so well that it was just stellar. OTOH, PCGiant#1 (Moon Viewing) was a good story to me, but the reading hurt it, I felt, because I don't like the way the reader reads.

The Dunesteef tries to use a set of actors, and maybe some of the EA podcasts would benefit from something like that if not overused. Certain readers can really capture certain types of characters -- Mur Lafferty really nails teenage/young adult women, and as I just said, Steve is killer when it comes to dogs (and also he has a good delivery for AI/holier-than-thou characters).

I did like the way the reader of EP179 did the voices, which is to say, she didn't change them much at all. Just slightly. I think a really good reader can only make slight changes and still communicate multiple characters.

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Roney

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Reply #40 on: October 22, 2008, 08:47:08 PM
I can't decide whether the most interesting thing about this story was its gengineered dystopian future or the story of the Arties trying to survive within it.  I get so used to stories being either a neat idea propped up by some stock characters, or a polished drama sprinkled with some fairy dust (or moon dust) to get the genre sale, that I sometimes forget what it's like when all the SF pieces fall into place and a story transports you to somewhere other.

The prison break was a bit too handwavey and broke the verisimilitude briefly, but everything else was beautifully crafted, and engagingly read.



JoeFitz

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Reply #41 on: October 22, 2008, 11:37:41 PM
It kind of recasts things for me - maybe the arties' isolation was part of the experiment: to see what they would do when driven to extremes.

That's a really interesting point. With that in mind, my criticism above about forcing the Arties to go cold turkey and deny them their artistic expression was perhaps an attempt to refocus them - while the smart kids in the libraries were allowed to study because they might find a solution. My issue remains that if this was the narrative, this wasn't very clear to me from the story.



DDog

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Reply #42 on: October 23, 2008, 08:19:46 PM
I'm so behind on comments. But this story was so awesome I had to say something at a time approximating currency.

I don't have an "official" top EP stories list as some posters seem to, but I agree with MacArthurBug. This story is on definitely on it*. Both for the story itself and the masterful reading by Pip Ballantine. I enjoyed it much better than "Instead of a Loving Heart" which was complete meh for me; given that I also loved "The Yeti Behind You" on PodCastle and "This, My Body" here, I'm going to declare myself a Jeremiah Tolbert fan and consider "Loving Heart" a fluke.

I'm really interested in what the rest of the world might look like, or what it looks like now after the Arties' rescue. Although improbable, I liked the idea that the gengineering kits were able to be used by people who didn't know what they were doing and couldn't even read the machines; it's nice to think that science can be artful, or that one can intuit life from design principles instead of only the other way around.

There might be some Arties who didn't have such an extreme ache to create, who found more support from their elderfolk. Most of these kids can clearly stay out for extended periods of time without their elderfolk noticing/punishing/looking for them (they waited three days for Niles to return with the kits); the group the story is focused on could be made up of the more neglected among the population. Art supplies are clearly available somewhere for Niles to steal; perhaps this is a band of underprivileged Arties. They don't seem to go to school (unless I missed something). Brainiacs and Thicknecks seem to also rove in gangs though ("rove" in the Brainiacs' case meaning "hang out at the library").

Or, since we are getting the story from the underdog's perspective, the elderfolk's problems might stem from simply not understanding their charges' needs, rather than from malice outright. These kids don't fit into the "system," and what are their parents going to do about it? They can't "fix" them short of recycling them or telling them to suck it up and deal, it seems, and giving them an appropriate outlet for their talents seems beyond the adults for some reason. Or perhaps the elderfolk simply have no idea the Arties have this craving to create, and think their drive is just youthful indiscretion which needs to be trained out of them. So the elderfolk try to keep a leash on their Arties and have the Tinmen clean up when they color outside the lines. From the Braniac's description of boredom, they might be in a similar position of not having enough to occupy their considerable talents. Adults often just don't know what to do with a superbly gifted child. There is unfortunately a very real struggle between making sure a gifted child gets the socialization they need to survive in the world, and giving them the opportunities to exercise their talents to the fullest. So Arties are stupid and can't fight; Braniacs can't think outside the box and don't get out much; and Thicknecks, I'm guessing, are big dumb lugs with no vision. Who knows what Skinnybois are/do.

From Zinger's opening plot contribution, it seemed like some of the Arties might have had more stable homes. Zinger mumbles something about his elderfolk not wanting him around, and from the context it seemed more like he was a young aspirant trying to get in with the "punk" crowd but didn't have enough street cred to really cut it at first. But they seem to all band together when it's time to rescue Niles.

I kind of agree that the exploding seeds were a little random, but we're seeing this through an Arty's eyes. They apparently remember their birthplace, something which for us ordinary humans is extraordinary, but to the Arty's it's a) normal and b) they care more about getting Niles back than anything else in the scene. They don't even stay long enough to hear the adults' explanation for why they need Niles, so we don't get to hear it either and have to just guess. It made sense to me within the context of the narrator's POV.



*For context, "How I Mounted...Saved...Sniffed" is already on the unofficial list, and I'm retroactively adding "Friction," "Mayfly," "God Juice," and "Conversations With and About My Electric Toothbrush" off the top of my head.

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Reply #43 on: October 24, 2008, 01:42:24 AM
Well, clearly I didn't understand this story at all.  Until I read this thread, I thought the arties were artificial life of some kind, androids or at least cyborgs.  Genetically engineered children abandoned by their parents... didn't even occur to me while I was listening.  Possibly I'm to blame for missing some important clue, and possibly the author needed to be just a smidge clearer regarding what the hell was going on.  Oddly, my complete misreading of the plot didn't interfere with my enjoyment of the story; I liked it, though I didn't love it, and was amused by the highly specialized characters with nothing really to do with their talents.



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Reply #44 on: October 24, 2008, 02:40:21 AM
I don't have anything new or insightful to add.  But count me as another listener who misunderstood the word "Arties" - I also thought they were artificial, probably androids.

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deflective

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Reply #45 on: October 24, 2008, 03:22:25 AM
you guys aren't alone. like i mentioned earlier, i read this story as just-plains trying to construct humans/super-humans and winding up with stilted abilities (boosted in one area at the cost of another).

a city with a complete lack of plants suggests some sort of biological disaster, maybe resulting in sterility?



Wonko

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Reply #46 on: October 24, 2008, 04:40:38 AM
I enjoyed this story. Especially the idea of a real-life SPORE Creature Creator and of life (both plant and animal) as art.

Also: I didn't get the "Arties" name either, until about three-quarters of the way through. Still, good story.



Father Beast

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Reply #47 on: October 24, 2008, 04:54:16 PM
I had the same problem as a lot of people in not understanding. the odd slang added to the accent made it difficult to follow at first. Then I got into it and I didn't have as big a problem. However, there must have been important stuff I missed out on understanding in the beginning, because I never did understand more than a basic idea of what was going on. Were these street kids, left to roam by their parents? Were they semi-homeless adults? I followed the events fairly okay, and enjoyed the jailbreak and bio-revolution in the streets, but when SFEley made comments in the outro about specialized children, I had no idea what he was talking about.
It seems that the kids were engineered either by either their parents or a higher organization. They were genetically engineered for specific traits: intelligence, strength, creativity. The Arties (created to be artistic) were all 'broken' in some way and were more-or-less ignored by their parents. The Arties were also addicted to the act of creation and had to find different ways to satisfy that need with what little resources were present in the highly structured society. The ringleader found, somehow, genengineering kits and the fun began.

Well OK then.

I guess it goes to show I can enjoy a story somewhat even if I don't know what's going on.
Quote
and the fun began.
is a pretty good description of what happened.



Rain

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Reply #48 on: October 27, 2008, 03:58:06 PM
I decided to give the story another try and it was actually quite good, but still that has to be the worst way to start a story that i have ever heard



sjg1978

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Reply #49 on: October 30, 2008, 08:12:43 PM
Arties Aren't Stupid --

Of course they are.  And so are the Braniacs, and all the rest. But they're "programmed" that way. You specialize so much that you can't understand anything outside of your narrow little field. But maybe you can express something you understand with the materials you have on hand. Melody starts playing around with the gengineering kit, and creates colorful shapes on the screen. Then we hear of her singing those shapes.  She's managed to express music visually. Probably in a way no one else in this world has ever done. Maybe she's broken not just in that her throat won't let her sing as well as she'd like, but that she can see the music as well as hear it.

Since the justplains don't give their children a good way to express themselves, they go find one. What's petty theft if you're going to create art?

And I would say that the Arties do succeed, because their creations have figured out a way to multiply themselves. So how much longer will it be before this world has dogs, and cats, and horses, and gerbils, and mice again? All that from just one gengineering kit operated by a small band of Arties?

I think, if we were to see the rest of the story, we would see either the evolution or destruction of this world. But I think I'm glad it stopped where it did, and leaves just a little bit of wondering.