Author Topic: PC029: Dead Languages  (Read 54414 times)

Heradel

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on: October 17, 2008, 05:26:32 AM
PC029: Dead Languages

By Merrie Haskell
Read by M. K. Hobson

“I have a confession,” Annabel said, steering the car into the snow-dusted mall parking lot. “I have involved us in a crazy scheme.

“Oh?” I asked, suddenly alert to my get-away options. Crazy schemes and Annabel had been getting me into trouble since I was six, when she convinced me to steal all the crayons from the art room to melt into a giant ball of wax.

“I’ve gotten you the lead in an independent short film.”

“What?” I shrieked. I admit: not my witty best, but I was trying to be discreet in wrapping my fingers around the door handle and calculating the car’s speed.

Annabel locked the car and smiled with a vague and friendly sort of evil. “There’s no need to thank me.”


Rated PG. Contains vampires, ass-kicking, and hijinx.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 05:43:50 AM by Heradel »

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DKT

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Reply #1 on: October 17, 2008, 05:37:56 AM
Contains vampires, ass-kicking, and hijinx.


Pretty much all I need to know ;D


Ragtime

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Reply #2 on: October 17, 2008, 01:13:49 PM
I liked it a lot.  Not terribly original -- it seems like lots of horror stories are set on the set of a horror movie -- but very well done inside the genre.  The best part was the pacing, I thought.  Everything moved along from event to event, without the usual too-much-pondering of "how" and "why."  The worst part was the cringe-worthy insinuations -- battered down, but always picked back up -- that Lillian is considering a relationship with her "sidekick," even though they both know that his love is only the result of the spell.

Also, there seems like there was some sort of complete failure to edit the piece  -- lots of repeated lines and a "Take Two" thrown in there.



Rachel Swirsky

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Reply #3 on: October 17, 2008, 02:40:19 PM
For people who may have noticed them -- I've passed on a note about unedited outtakes to our audio editor.



Ragtime

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Reply #4 on: October 17, 2008, 03:04:16 PM
One more thought, looking at the opening again.

The first sentence seems like its bucking for a "great first lines" prize, but actually doesn't make a lot of sense it context.  Annabel really didn't involve them in a "crazy scheme."  At least not based on what she knew at the time.

So, the first sentence is my new least-favorite part. 

Since that means I should pick a new "favorite part," I'm going to go with Strege Nona's concept of little bits of magic escaping into the world.  Unfortunately, I can't think of Strege Nona any more without thinking of the kids' book about the bottomless spaghetti pot, but that's not the author's fault.



DKT

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Reply #5 on: October 17, 2008, 03:37:59 PM
For people who may have noticed them -- I've passed on a note about unedited outtakes to our audio editor.

I haven't listened yet and am wondering: should I wait? Is a re-edited one going to drop in the feed?


Rachel Swirsky

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Reply #6 on: October 17, 2008, 03:46:07 PM
I feel silly for not knowing how to answer that question. When we get a new file, I'll replace the one in the blog entry. Will that cause the feed to recollect it? I'm assuming not. Maybe I should delete the blog entry and make a new one when we get the corrected file?

I doubt the errors are enough to seriously impair a listening experience (though I may be corrected)... though personally, I hate finding errors in a file when I'm expecting it to be perfect, but knowing there will be a few later on allows me to shrug it off, so that's just my feeling. I guess it depends on how much you feel a few repeated phrases and one "Take two" will bother you.



Listener

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Reply #7 on: October 17, 2008, 07:15:04 PM
The reading was very good, except for the audio typos, but those have been discussed. (I _did_ offer to help do audio editing, way back when Steve made the call. Just sayin'.)

I liked the premise, but the five minutes of driving around and talking about feminism and being fat...? I could live without it. It felt like the author trying to make a point before finally getting to the interesting bits. I liked also that there was no way to reverse the process... so many "oops I cast a spell" stories have plot coupons and easy reversals. The Christian subplot was kind of silly.

A pretty good story overall. Not awesome, but I'm not complaining.


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Reply #8 on: October 17, 2008, 11:20:39 PM
I give it a strong B,  the characters for the most part were enjoyable, minus Christian.  The plot of an old ancient medallion mistakenly causing magical mischief is as old as probably storytelling itself, but it seemed fresh in this story.   Maybe just imagining Jolly old St. Nicks hurting each other for  Alpha Santa status was just twisted enough to freshen it up for me.   :)

I also liked that there wasn't any reversal chant, drink, or any other device in the story, but probably all the geeks playing Harry Potter who found that their wands now work could come up with one. 

My two cents on the editing.   Mistakes happen, but I had a hard time getting thrown back in the story over and over again.  When I reread a passage in a novel I get very frustrated for not marking my place.  I felt that same frustration with the missed edits. 



Rachel Swirsky

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Reply #9 on: October 18, 2008, 03:12:10 AM
Okay, the fixed audio file has been uploaded, but I did not create a new blog entry. I'm not sure what effect this has on the feed -- if anyone wants to let me know, I'd appreciate it.



Kaa

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Reply #10 on: October 18, 2008, 04:00:40 AM
I really enjoyed this one, although I do agree that the diatribe about feminism at the beginning needs to go.  Not because it's a diatribe and not because it was about feminism and I have a Y chromosome, but because it dumped liquid nitrogen on the pacing.

The only thing that surprised me was that no mention was made of all the cross-dressers who suddenly found themselves with real parts, or the kids in Spiderman or Wonder Woman pajamas that suddenly found themselves climbing walls or flying invisible jets. :)

Oh, and kudos on the reading.  That was just amazing.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 04:02:22 AM by Kaa »

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Reply #11 on: October 18, 2008, 04:51:01 AM
the escape artists' editors say over and over that they don't collaborate so this week is a strong case for culturally collective thinking. halloween could explain two vampire stories but two vampire stories with a feminist/anti-masculine viewpoint? an odd coincidence.

this story had a few things worth commenting about but thomasowenm brought up a big one (and now Kaa). speculative fiction authors tend to to introduce huge, world changing events without thinking through the consequences. this isn't always a big deal but it is distracting. where were the santas in the story? what happened to women as they realized that their makeup wasn't coming off and their underwire bra had disappeared, leaving them larger and unnaturally perky? why did the vampire take the personality of his character but the vampire hunter remain herself? did every room using mirrors to create an illusion of space suddenly get larger?

yeah, yeah, too picky. but i appreciate at least an attempt to think through and resolve speculation in a story.

<big-geek>
it's funny that Rachel went with Buffy for the intro, the whole costume-becomes-real event was used in one of the halloween episodes.

if you want to understand Whedon fandom without putting in a full seven seasons i would suggest watching the top five episodes (ideally with a fan to fill in background) rather than slogging through the first season. the first season is generally considered weak. at a minimum, everyone should see the musical episode. =)
</big-geek>

by the way, refreshed the feed and didn't download a new copy.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 06:12:48 PM by deflective »



Heradel

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Reply #12 on: October 18, 2008, 05:28:03 AM
Okay, the fixed audio file has been uploaded, but I did not create a new blog entry. I'm not sure what effect this has on the feed -- if anyone wants to let me know, I'd appreciate it.

[...]
by the way, refreshed the feed and didn't download a new copy.

Uploading the new file will only affect future downloads, those that already have a copy will need to (in iTunes at least), delete the file, unsubscribe, re-subscribe, and download it again to get the corrected version.


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Reply #13 on: October 18, 2008, 07:29:40 AM
Production glitches aside, I enjoyed this story. I wasn't quite sure why, but maybe it is because it reminds me of its source material.

I don't think it lives up to it's premise, a feminist take on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, other than the protagonist not being a perfect size four. There's a Oedipal angle in that the protagonist inadvertently caused the magical chaos, but otherwise she's still the reluctant female hero with superhuman abilities who relies on her allies for emotional support in her monster-infested small town where the conventional authorities are helpless. Even the tone of the story is fairly Whedonesque, the contrast between the mundane and the fantastic.



Heradel

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Reply #14 on: October 18, 2008, 07:42:08 AM
I don't think it lives up to it's premise, a feminist take on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, other than the protagonist not being a perfect size four. There's a Oedipal angle in that the protagonist inadvertently caused the magical chaos, but otherwise she's still the reluctant female hero with superhuman abilities who relies on her allies for emotional support in her monster-infested small town where the conventional authorities are helpless. Even the tone of the story is fairly Whedonesque, the contrast between the mundane and the fantastic.

I haven't had time to listen to the story yet (Deadlines! Programs! Middle English Poetry!), but I always thought Buffy was the feminist Buffy. Whedon's been accused of a lot of things (most unforgivably not letting two characters just be happy), but I don't think misogyny is one of them.

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Reply #15 on: October 18, 2008, 02:27:54 PM
Quote
I always thought Buffy was the feminist Buffy.

Pretty much. Though I still can't stand Buffy.

If anything, I think this is a parody of Buffy, not an attempt at one-upmanship. Well, plus funny on its own,  or at least I thought it was funny.



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Reply #16 on: October 18, 2008, 04:45:48 PM
the intro part about being into fantasy but hating buffy seemed kind of strange to me, i also hate buffy. i've never thought the 2 were related but i never really think genre specific when enjoying a story. enjoyed this one, i liked this chick's reading, sounds like the same one who read the story about the shrinking chainmail. the bad editing was very annoying, took a bit away from the story for me, easy to not pay full attention to something if i'm worrying that something's going to bug me. pseudopod also had a vampire related story this week, um, quite different of course.



sirana

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Reply #17 on: October 18, 2008, 05:33:52 PM

I haven't had time to listen to the story yet (Deadlines! Programs! Middle English Poetry!), but I always thought Buffy was the feminist Buffy. Whedon's been accused of a lot of things (most unforgivably not letting two characters just be happy), but I don't think misogyny is one of them.

You obviously haven't read A Rapist's View of the World: Joss Whedon and Firefly. It's all about how Firefly is the most mysoginistic piece of television. And sadly, it isn't a parody... Even more sad are some of the comments congratulating the author on her brilliant analysis.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 05:37:29 PM by sirana »



mkhobson

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Reply #18 on: October 18, 2008, 06:38:36 PM
I want to thank everyone who's said nice things about my reading, and send out my personal apology for the audio errors! This was the first piece I ever recorded for Podcastle (though "Hallah Iron Thighs" and my intro for "Tanuki Kettle" happened to come out first) and I ... uh ... kinda didn't know how to use Sound Studio very well. I also had a crappy mike, which I've since replaced. And the dog ate my homework.  ;D

I have since figured out how to edit my own files, and in the future I won't be sending anything in to Rachel that I wouldn't feel confident having appear on the 'cast as-is. It's one thing to screw up your own story in a reading, but it's quite another to have your reading reflect badly on someone *else's* work!!

Thanks everyone for your patience. And kudos to Rachel and crew for getting an edited version up so fast! This team works so hard, and cares so much about putting out a quality product. They deserve lots of praise!

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Heradel

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Reply #19 on: October 19, 2008, 12:50:54 AM

I haven't had time to listen to the story yet (Deadlines! Programs! Middle English Poetry!), but I always thought Buffy was the feminist Buffy. Whedon's been accused of a lot of things (most unforgivably not letting two characters just be happy), but I don't think misogyny is one of them.

You obviously haven't read A Rapist's View of the World: Joss Whedon and Firefly. It's all about how Firefly is the most mysoginistic piece of television. And sadly, it isn't a parody... Even more sad are some of the comments congratulating the author on her brilliant analysis.

Wow, either that person is incapable of humor or couldn't get past what she wanted to see to see the characters being portrayed (and for the record, I grew up next to an interracial couple that had been together since the late sixties/early seventies). Just because one an make an argument to a certain effect, doesn't mean one should.



On another note, I liked this story and I had actually just read the Battle of Brunanburg this afternoon for class.

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ajames

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Reply #20 on: October 19, 2008, 01:11:18 AM
Audioblips aside (and they have been more than explained and taken care of - thanks MK and Podcastle crew!!) the reading got me into the story and the story was not bad.

The thing about bringing up Buffy in the intro was that I watched Buffy through most of the five seasons that show was on, and the characters and the show in general became part of my life the way such shows do. I liked the show for any number of reasons, from its campiness and obvious awareness of its absurd premise, to its occasional ability to take some risks ("Hush"), to its treatment of some serious emotional themes. So with that history with Buffy, and bringing up Buffy in the intro, this story would have had to be much, much better than it was for me to really take notice. If it was meant to be a parody or satire of Buffy it was okay but could have been much better.

Anyway, its not fair to compare a story I listened to for less than 40 minutes to a television show I watched over 5 years (with 100 hours or so of viewing time). Taking this story alone as much as I can, it was entertaining and kept me interested. It didn't slay me though.



deflective

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Reply #21 on: October 19, 2008, 02:53:53 AM
are you saying that you don't recognize the last two seasons when the show moved to upn? because i could understand that for season seven but six was mostly solid.

this story had a feeling of Whedon fanfic more than Buffy satire. projecting yourself into the show's filming rather than the show's plot, dropping your slow & boring boyfriend for the driven & entertaining director (who becomes hopelessly infatuated with you). all the ingredients are there.

some time has passed since i listened to the story and a way to make sense of the selective world changing has occurred to me. the locket's magic was wholly centered on Lillian, all changes that the locket makes is to support her role as vampire hunter. that means that dark creatures for her to fight were created but other costumes in the area were irrelevant. this way we could later find out that Christian was a talented film maker all along and his feelings really are genuine! awwww.

but, still, must point out logic error. it's the way i'm wired. Lillian's vampire hunter character could speak latin, she was pretending exactly that at the moment that the spell took effect. she shouldn't have had to look things up later.



ajames

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Reply #22 on: October 19, 2008, 11:12:43 AM
are you saying that you don't recognize the last two seasons when the show moved to upn? because i could understand that for season seven but six was mostly solid.

No, I wasn't making a statement about the last two seasons. As much as I liked the show, I did lose track of it towards the end, catching it piecemeal now and then the last year or two. I've slowly stopped watching all television except shows with my kids (and I DVR Numbers, because I read the book put out by some of the mathematicians who consult with the show, and got intrigued).

but, still, must point out logic error. it's the way i'm wired. Lillian's vampire hunter character could speak latin, she was pretending exactly that at the moment that the spell took effect. she shouldn't have had to look things up later.

Good catch. 



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Reply #23 on: October 19, 2008, 11:41:34 PM
I loved the reading of this story, and the story itself was a fun romp.  When Lilian wails that she does not want to be known as the woman on the internet with the arm flab, I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.  Arm flab heroines of the internet unite!

My main complaints were:

1) I never get to find out what dead languages the main character knew!  Yes, I know that the story is not really about dead languages but more about becoming that which you pretend to be (cool premise!) but I wanted to know which dead languages the main character was versed in.  It's pretty unusual for someone in western culture to study other dead languages but not Latin.  Latin is usually the default dead language option of high schools.  I wanted to know what else she had studied.  Since she recited the poem in old Anglo Saxon, I have to assume that was one of them.  What was the other?  Greek?  Sanskrit?  Ancient Egyptian?  Babylonian?  I want to know!

2) I enjoyed it when Christian fell in love with her, but boy was I disappointed when I realized that he fell in love with her because he was victim of a spell.  I wanted him to fall in love with her because she kicked ass, could recite poetry in different languages, had a razor sharp wit and a sense of humor and because she looked damn fine in a bustier.  Skinny guys fall for bright, funny, well endowed fat chicks all the time.  I would not have minded the spell bringing them together if the reason was that Lilian had become more confident, or just was a stronger person because of the spell.  But to have Christian love Lilian mainly because the spell made him do so... well, that cheapened it for me. 


Hmm


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Reply #24 on: October 20, 2008, 05:31:40 AM
2) I enjoyed it when Christian fell in love with her, but boy was I disappointed when I realized that he fell in love with her because he was victim of a spell.  ... But to have Christian love Lilian mainly because the spell made him do so... well, that cheapened it for me. 

This whole topic is interesting to me and is actually one that kind of raises my hackles/makes my skin crawl - magically altering someone's perception of the world or of someone else and causing them to fall in love or become attracted to someone?  Creepy as HELL.

Amusingly enough, the first time I really looked it in the face and was freaked out was a Buffy episode.  Hurr hurr.  Some random jock at the school has a letter jacket that he inherited from his father that makes girls who see him DESPERATELY want him, and Buffy ends up essentially trying to get in his pants.  Watching that whole scene just freaked me the hell out, so now I'm actually very conscious of that whole idea of unreliable or influenced 'love'.

Love potions = brainwashing = rape?


EDIT: Forgot to mention.  I liked the story.  I listen to them while I'm doing yard work (mindless physical labor, yay!), so the editing mess-ups didn't really irritate me, though I certainly noticed them.  There was also one point during the story where it literally repeated itself - like, went back a sentence or so and said the exact same thing (not like she was re-reading it but like the audio was repeated).  I'm with the other folks in the thread who are saying that it's not so much a feminist re-imagining of the vampire slayer idea, but at least it IS a fun story around a similar archetype/theme.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 05:34:49 AM by Ignoranus »

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ryos

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Reply #25 on: October 20, 2008, 08:48:11 AM
I have little to add to the discussion. I neither liked nor disliked the story; it was a meh for me.

Why am I here? Because I, too, am a fan of fantasy who has no particular love for Buffy. Just thought Rachel might want to know she has company.



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Reply #26 on: October 20, 2008, 09:25:38 AM
I loved the reading of this story, and the story itself was a fun romp.  When Lilian wails that she does not want to be known as the woman on the internet with the arm flab, I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.  Arm flab heroines of the internet unite!

....

2) I enjoyed it when Christian fell in love with her, but boy was I disappointed when I realized that he fell in love with her because he was victim of a spell.  I wanted him to fall in love with her because she kicked ass, could recite poetry in different languages, had a razor sharp wit and a sense of humor and because she looked damn fine in a bustier.  Skinny guys fall for bright, funny, well endowed fat chicks all the time.  I would not have minded the spell bringing them together if the reason was that Lilian had become more confident, or just was a stronger person because of the spell.  But to have Christian love Lilian mainly because the spell made him do so... well, that cheapened it for me. 

I totally agree with you there, HMM, I was really disappointed as well, ... but the sad part was that I found myself doubting him long before the reason for his change of heart was revealed. I had a really hard time trying to suppress the temptation to dismiss Christian's "feelings" as the author's attempt at appealing to us 'arm flab chicks'. I tried to come up with some kind of explanation of how he could possibly fall for HER, thinking it could not be real and 'it is just a story, that doesn't happen in real life' (haha, what would we do without fantasy?). On one hand I like stories that make me challenge my own preconceptions of the world and realize how I am myself using certain assumptions I otherwise dismiss as superficial when I am aware of them. On the other hand it makes me sad ... (to realize my own preconceptions of the world etc etc.)

Anyway, still a good story and very entertaining. I for one did not mind the editing problems. They were slightly annoying, but not so much so they could interfere with my enjoyment of the story. But I have to say without the excellent reading I would not have enjoyed it as much, though I was picturing someone slightly older than 28, I have to admit. Yeah, yeah, I know, preconceptions.



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Reply #27 on: October 20, 2008, 02:44:42 PM
Odd. Interesting, not well enough edited, the flaws distracted me from the reading. The story itself was.. OK.

On an aside: Not liking buffy I kinda get. IT took me a LONG time to get into J.W. stuff. At first (and second and third) blush I could not get into BTVS, or Angel, or FF - I was a freak amoung my buddies. I finally gave in, sat down and forced myself to watch my friends favorite scenes. Unlike Rachel, I found it just to my tastes. Suddenly I "got" it.  And "it" was good.

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Reply #28 on: October 20, 2008, 03:15:44 PM
I loved it!  Excellent reading by the narrator!  She delivered the dry sarcastic attitude of the vampire slayer perfectly!  I was really disappointed when it was over. 



Wilson Fowlie

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Reply #29 on: October 20, 2008, 04:01:55 PM
I really enjoyed this story.  It had me laughing out loud in several places.  Okay, that's not a huge feat - I laugh reasonably easily - but, still.  It was a lot of fun.

<Spoiler>
I, like many commenters, also liked the fact that the author chose not to have any of the characters figure out how to reverse the magic.  (Though I found myself coming up with my own solutions while listening.)  I don't think, given the circumstances, and assuming a certain level of internal consistency to the ficton, that a solution would have been difficult, but it wouldn't have added to the story either, so I appreciated the author leaving it out.
</Spoiler>

Hobson's reading certainly had a lot to do with how much I enjoyed this story.  When I heard Rachel name her as the reader, I surprised myself a little by saying, "Oh, good!" or "Awesome!" or some such.  I hadn't realized just how much I've come to enjoy her reading.  And here, she didn't disappoint.

I was one of the ones who got the first version of the file, and I thought she even did the verbal typos well. The one with the finger-snap was pure Theatre of the Mind - I could picture it!

(I'm keeping this copy even after I download the 'good' version, in case, like a coin with a minted flaw, it becomes a valuable collectors' item!  ;) )

(Oh, and Rachel, in case no one else mentioned it: I use Juice for the feed and while it didn't automatically recognize that there was a new file, it'll be easy enough to go to the subscription tab and click 'Download' for the file to get it again.)

My one complaint is with the timing of Rachel's remarks.  I would really, really, really have rathered them be in an afterword rather than the introduction.  Don't get me wrong: I enjoyed what she said - I like getting to know the Escape Artists hosts! - but for me, it (and the rating on the blog) gave away too much of what was coming.

The author revealed plot points with (presumably) specific, chosen timing and I found myself anticipating them more than being surprised by them, not because of anything that was telegraphed in the story, but because of revelations made in the introduction and rating.

The rating I could have avoided; not so the intro.

I felt the same way about  "Cup and Table" back in August.  Without the introduction, I'd have had no idea, until it was revealed by the author, what the story was about.  (This may say more about my own cluelessness than about the author's skill.)  I would have had the (presumably intended) "Ahh!" moment.  I felt a little cheated that I didn't.

I wouldn't have changed a word of that introduction either - I just would rather she'd provided all that interesting, related information after the story, rather than before.

Maybe I'm just more spoiler-phobic than average, as no one else seems to have the same concern.  (Though I have yet to check the comments from "Cup and Table".)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 04:05:15 PM by Wilson Fowlie »

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Reply #30 on: October 20, 2008, 06:53:34 PM
I enjoyed this story, but I felt it could have used more editing - its pacing was off; not so much slow as progressing in fits and starts. Long, slow, buildup, then a very quick reveal of the spell's effects, then slow again, then somewhat faster again for the reveal of Christian's new feelings, then a really dragged out ending.

All the components for a fun story were here, and to a large extent they worked, but it would have been a much better story if it was, oh, 5-10 minutes shorter.



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Reply #31 on: October 20, 2008, 08:42:17 PM
I want to thank everyone who's said nice things about my reading, and send out my personal apology for the audio errors! This was the first piece I ever recorded for Podcastle (though "Hallah Iron Thighs" and my intro for "Tanuki Kettle" happened to come out first) and I ... uh ... kinda didn't know how to use Sound Studio very well. I also had a crappy mike, which I've since replaced. And the dog ate my homework.  ;D

Well, I would say you nailed the main character's voice pretty spot-on.

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Reply #32 on: October 20, 2008, 09:53:35 PM
I would posit that it only affected what people THOUGHT they were, not what actually happened.

an interesting attempt but it doesn't work. Lillian didn't identify with her costume, she felt silly. the scroll was pretty precise: what appears to be true becomes true. woman can use makeup and clothing to feel good not just look good. in fact that's usually the goal when out at night, someone who feels sexy is much more likely to be sexy.

I'm not sure it had to do directly with belief, so much as with pretending - women with makeup aren't (usually) pretending to be someone else, and bras aren't about pretending anymore than, say, t-shirts are.
...
Lillian was pretending to be a buffy-type vampire slayer, someone who tried to lead a normal life while also possessing superpowers. So, her normal-life aspects remained.

this sounds better but still: a padded, underwire bra is all about pretending. makeup usually is too (take twenty years off / put five years on).

Lillian was pretending to be a particular hunter with her own personality.


on a tangent, if all costumes suddenly became real there could be an entertaining scene where the ranks of the police, nurses and teachers are suddenly swollen by young woman in unconventional uniforms. this would leave club stages briefly empty until the pole-dancing exercise classes let out and new woman show up, wearing less makeup but moving more provocatively than ever before.

yeah, that's the kind of thing i think of. glad to fill the stereotype.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 09:55:18 PM by deflective »



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Reply #33 on: October 20, 2008, 11:23:16 PM
Quote
this sounds better but still: a padded, underwire bra is all about pretending. makeup usually is too (take twenty years off / put five years on).

Not in my experience, it's not.  Underwire is all about the support.  Not infrequently, bras that don't have underwire will use padding instead for the same purpose--though that's inadequate for some of us.  Underwire doesn't actually make your breasts look any bigger than they are--believe me, I have no need to pretend I've got anything, and I always, always wear underwire, because otherwise, the structural support just isn't there.

So, while some padded bras are all about giving you the next letter, not even remotely all of them are, and underwires aren't about that at all.

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Reply #34 on: October 21, 2008, 01:13:47 AM
people are putting way too much stock into Christian's claim that the spell made him fall in love. this is a guy who idolized the slayer character to a point where he's sinking money into creating a movie, then he gets to meet a real live one. how hard is it to mistake your own infatuation & admiration for love? just how different is it from love? by claiming it's the spell he creates a space where it's safe to lay out his feelings without fully exposing himself.

It's a college project. So far as I can tell, the total cost of the movie is Lillian's $500 plus the cost of film stock. And there's nothing to imply that he'd even thought about vampire slayers before he started this. It might as well have been about crossing guards in rural Nebraska, and he'd have fallen in love with the central character.

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Reply #35 on: October 21, 2008, 02:01:06 AM
what are you saying about the cost of the film? spending a thousand bucks means a lot in college.

your experience with college art projects may be different but the producers/directors of vamp flicks always seem like big vampire geeks. especially once you get into slayer / hunter discussions.



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Reply #36 on: October 21, 2008, 02:02:50 AM
The setting seems modern, unless I missed a mention of film canisters I'm guessing they're shooting to SD cards or HD, maybe DV tapes.

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Reply #37 on: October 21, 2008, 06:13:49 AM
The women's clothing discussion has been moved to here: http://forum.escapeartists.net/index.php?topic=2036.0

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Reply #38 on: October 21, 2008, 11:46:16 AM
  Despite what I felt was kind of a rocky start, I really enjoyed this story. Once the story found its groove it really started to work. The read was wonderful (a few editing issues did not ruin the story for me), and captured the main character perfectly

  I guess it's a good thing there was not an anime convention going on, or there would have been a lot more "ninjas" running around.

  Hmmm, do you think that the spell would make people's costume props work too? would all the people cosplaying as Light suddenly have working Death Notes? I cannot think the role-players and ninjas had "real" (not cheap decorative or plastic) weapons lying around when the spell took effect.

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Reply #39 on: October 21, 2008, 01:42:48 PM
Am i really the only one who though Lilian was a total Bitch throughout the story? She was pretty mean to everyone in the story, i realise it was a defense mechanism but after every other character was a normal friendly person i got a little sick of that attitude, especially with the boyfriend to which she was pretty cruel.
Otherwise a good story
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 01:46:01 PM by Rain »



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Reply #40 on: October 21, 2008, 01:45:25 PM

if you want to understand Whedon fandom without putting in a full seven seasons i would suggest watching the top five episodes (ideally with a fan to fill in background) rather than slogging through the first season. the first season is generally considered weak. at a minimum, everyone should see the musical episode. =)

I completely agree, i am a huge Buffy fan, but season one is pretty weak, certainly not enough to get why people like me praise it to the skies



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Reply #41 on: October 21, 2008, 03:15:44 PM
Ya' know, I *almost* stopped listening to this story when I was at the half-way point and asking myself, "okay, so it's a story about a woman playing a vampire hunter and bitching about her weight and her life."  I'm glad I hung on because the story did pick up, but in terms of momentum, it took way too long to get into the fantasy for me.

As others have mentioned, the audio-blips were annoying but not distracting.  I disliked the main character (why aren't I using the word heroine?) in the beginning but by the end I'm not sure if I liked her or just felt sorry for her.


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Reply #42 on: October 21, 2008, 05:41:50 PM
I enjoyed this one, to be sure. Lots of fun and M.K. Hobson's reading completely sold it for me. 


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Reply #43 on: October 21, 2008, 05:56:53 PM
2) I enjoyed it when Christian fell in love with her, but boy was I disappointed when I realized that he fell in love with her because he was victim of a spell.  ... But to have Christian love Lilian mainly because the spell made him do so... well, that cheapened it for me. 

This whole topic is interesting to me and is actually one that kind of raises my hackles/makes my skin crawl - magically altering someone's perception of the world or of someone else and causing them to fall in love or become attracted to someone?  Creepy as HELL.

For those who have not (and I assume that is most of you) read the "Disney Fairies" books, I really really recommend them (for your daughters!  no, really, they're great!) if, for nothing else, getting right exactly what this story gets wrong.  In "Fairy Haven and the Quest for the Wand" by Gail Carson Levine (more famous for 'Ella Enchanted'), the gang gets a magic wand, and despite being told not to make wishes, they all do.  One male fairy, who has been in unrequited love with Tinkerbell throughout the series, wishes that she will fall in love with him.

The result makes both he and Tinkerbell miserable (as it should), and by the end he learns the error of his ways.  That a kid's book gets perfectly right something that this story gets very wrong speaks to both works, I think.



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Reply #44 on: October 21, 2008, 06:12:46 PM
One male fairy, who has been in unrequited love with Tinkerbell throughout the series, wishes that she will fall in love with him.

The result makes both he and Tinkerbell miserable (as it should), and by the end he learns the error of his ways.  That a kid's book gets perfectly right something that this story gets very wrong speaks to both works, I think.

Ah, but this raises an interesting question. I agree that the concept of someone deliberately altering someone else's perception of the world to make them fall in love with them is disturbing. Love, I think we all agree, should not be coerced, neither by force or by magic.

But that is not what happens in this story. The main character accidentally causes someone else to fall in love with her, as a result of a more widely-reaching spell (which was also accidental, though that's less material to the point). She never intended it. Indeed, she is resistant to his overtures for a while.

So, this isn't really a story about using magic to make someone love you. It's a story about making an impact in the world, which causes someone's perception of you to change. I really don't think that this is the same thing.



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Reply #45 on: October 21, 2008, 06:23:28 PM
So, this isn't really a story about using magic to make someone love you. It's a story about making an impact in the world, which causes someone's perception of you to change. I really don't think that this is the same thing.

I don't think so.  When Terence (that was the boy fairy's name!) made Tinkerbell fall in love with him, it only took him a few pages to start thinking "This is a disaster!  This is supposed to be my dream come true, but it's actually a nightmare!"  Soon, he can barely stand being with her, because he is so ashamed.  And that coming from someone who actually loved Tinkerbell all along.  That struck me as the "right" way to describe the situation.

In this case, Lilian started out not-at-all attracted to Christian, and then, when he starts expressing his love for her, she slowly (and inconsistently) becomes more open to hanging out with him, and maybe actually having a relationship.  The point is not who "caused" it, but whether someone being forced (by any means) to love you against his own will would increase or decrease your desire to be with him/her. 

A better route, I think, is to start her out thinking, "Hey, he's kind of cute," and then getting repelled by his undesired love.  The way this story is written, though, it is the equivalent of "You know, I never really found you that appealing before you developed that personality disorder . . ."  Which is ass-backwards.



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Reply #46 on: October 21, 2008, 06:47:27 PM

A better route, I think, is to start her out thinking, "Hey, he's kind of cute," and then getting repelled by his undesired love.  This way, it is the equivalent of "You know, I never really found you that appealing before you developed that personality disorder . . ."  Which is ass-backwards.


I see your point, but I still don't accept the reasoning. Christian fell in love with her due to a force outside his control, but that's not the same thing as "against his will". Imagine, in the real world, that someone has a minor stroke that results in a personality change. Would you want that person to live the rest of their life alone, since, before the stroke, he would not be attracted to the same women as after the stroke? If he ends up head over heels with a woman that just a year before he would have hated, does that mean she should reject him?

I'm not disputing that something bad happened to Christian in this story. But the story makes it clear that this change is permanent. Does Christian have to keep on living a life he had once wanted for himself, if now he wants something else?



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Reply #47 on: October 21, 2008, 07:58:46 PM
Would you want that person to live the rest of their life alone, since, before the stroke, he would not be attracted to the same women as after the stroke?  If he ends up head over heels with a woman that just a year before he would have hated, does that mean she should reject him?

You are looking at it from the point of "fairness" to the person under the spell.  From Christian's point of view.  But it takes two to make a relationship.  Your assumption is that "You have fallen in love with me" should somehow change how I feel about you.  But that's not how it works. 

Notice that, unlike in the case of a "minor stroke," Christian's personality has not changed.  Christian was characterized as an annoying twerp, and a pushy, bossy director with very few redeeming qualities.  Suddenly he is changed -- but he is NOT changed so that he is no longer an annoying twerp.  He is NOT changed so that he is no longer annoying or bossy.  This is NOT a case of Fred Flintstone being hit on the head with a bowling ball and suddenly becoming classy. The only difference in his personality is his feelings toward Lilian, who initially was not interested in him. 

And your assumption is that this ONE change should be enough to somehow change LILIAN'S opinion in a pro-Christian direction.  But you not entitled to have a woman change her opinion of you simply because you change your opinion of her.

Would the find that annoying girl who is currently indifferent to you more or less annoying if she is suddenly being annoying around you all the time while she tells you she had a stroke and now loves you?  You might think that her taste has improved, but if she is still annoying in exactly the same ways, then you will likely be no more interested in her -- and probably much less so because now her annoying-ness in on display
more often.



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Reply #48 on: October 21, 2008, 08:08:24 PM
Also, there seems like there was some sort of complete failure to edit the piece  -- lots of repeated lines and a "Take Two" thrown in there.

That was my problem.  A good story was cut off at the knees by no less than four falterings and restarts.  Skimming downthread it seems that a fixed version has been posted, so I'll get that one and replace my existing copy ... but as I've just finished listening to this one, I'm not likely to come back to it any time soon.

Seriously, those editing glitches practically destroyed the story for me.

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Reply #49 on: October 21, 2008, 08:11:05 PM
Notice that, unlike in the case of a "minor stroke," Christian's personality has not changed.  Christian was characterized as an annoying twerp, and a pushy, bossy director with very few redeeming qualities.  Suddenly he is changed -- but he is NOT changed so that he is no longer an annoying twerp.  He is NOT changed so that he is no longer annoying or bossy.  This is NOT a case of Fred Flintstone being hit on the head with a bowling ball and suddenly becoming classy. The only difference in his personality is his feelings toward Lilian, who initially was not interested in him. 

I'm getting confused as to what you are saying, now. The comparison with the fairy story was that there, person X loved person Y who didn't reciprocate, then person Y's feelings changed by magic, and person X found this nightmarish, presumably because Y no longer acted like the person he originally loved.

You were comparing this to this story, where person X initially dislikes person Y, then person Y loves X, and X decides its not so bad after all.

So what was it that the Disney story got "so right" that this story got "so wrong"? I originally thought you meant "if you force someone to love you you will regret it", and I pointed out that that doesn't apply. You seemed to agree with me, and then I thought the point was "someone forming a love for you that is inconsistent with their past inclinations is a nightmare", and I think that's just plain false.

Now you seem to be arguing that the problem is that person Y didn't really change enough. I actually agree with you here - while I don't find the ending creepy, I do find it somewhat sad. But I also find it realistic and internally consistent - Lilian had already admitted that she's willing to date people she dislikes just to avoid being alone. But if this is the case, what is it that the Disney story got right that this story got wrong? I agree with your latest post - but I'm not sure how it fits in with where we started.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 08:13:18 PM by eytanz »



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Reply #50 on: October 21, 2008, 08:26:49 PM
So what was it that the Disney story got "so right" that this story got "so wrong"?

The situations in the two stories are not identical, so it is a little difficult to put an Aesop's Moral at the end that would apply to both.

But to quote the post I initially responded to:

magically altering someone's perception of the world or of someone else and causing them to fall in love or become attracted to someone?  Creepy as HELL.

Yes.  And it should be seen as creepy as HELL by the characters, not somehow endearing.

How about this for the moral: When X is forced to love Y by external circumstances, and Y knows it, then Y's feelings towards X will be changed TOWARD creepy and AWAY from reciprocation.



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Reply #51 on: October 21, 2008, 08:40:38 PM
How about this for the moral: When X is forced to love Y by external circumstances, and Y knows it, then Y's feelings towards X will be changed TOWARD creepy and AWAY from reciprocation.

I think this was covered by the story, actually. Remember, this wasn't a change that just affected Christian, it affected everyone. And some (Pete, sock-puppet boy) were affected much worse. The story was, to a large extent, about how Lilian came to terms with everything changing. And once she accepted that everything changed, and decided to live in the new world, she just had to treat it as it was, without reference to what came before it.

I don't see why she should be able to accept magic changing Pete into a vampire as a fact about the world but still see Christian as being under coercion. If the spell was temporary, or cancellable, I would agree with you.

Put it differently - if I hold a gun to you and tell you that you must blindfold yourself and learn braille until you can read fluently in it, then I am coercing you. However, if you are involved in an accident and permanently lose your eyesight, and I teach you braille, you are not being forced to do anything; circumstances changed irrevocably, and you are adjusting. I think that, regardless of whether Lilian and Christian were a good match or not, it is not correct to treat him as if he was being forced to do anything.



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Reply #52 on: October 21, 2008, 09:06:11 PM
How about this for the moral: When X is forced to love Y by external circumstances, and Y knows it, then Y's feelings towards X will be changed TOWARD creepy and AWAY from reciprocation.
[...]
Put it differently - if I hold a gun to you and tell you that you must blindfold yourself and learn braille until you can read fluently in it, then I am coercing you. However, if you are involved in an accident and permanently lose your eyesight, and I teach you braille, you are not being forced to do anything; circumstances changed irrevocably, and you are adjusting. I think that, regardless of whether Lilian and Christian were a good match or not, it is not correct to treat him as if he was being forced to do anything.

I wondered if it was magical permanent love or just the ordinary kind. If it's just normal love he could always fall out of it after a spell.

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Reply #53 on: October 21, 2008, 09:20:54 PM
I don't think he can fall out of the spell, though. My understanding was that the magic spell was permanent and could not be reversed. Vampire hunters will stay vampire hunters.  Ninjas will stay ninjas.  Bras will stay...well, nevermind.  But yeah, I don't think he can fall out of love.  It's "true" now.


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Reply #54 on: October 21, 2008, 09:50:47 PM
I don't think he can fall out of the spell, though. My understanding was that the magic spell was permanent and could not be reversed. Vampire hunters will stay vampire hunters.  Ninjas will stay ninjas.  Bras will stay...well, nevermind.  But yeah, I don't think he can fall out of love.  It's "true" now.

Actually, if that is true, I must revise my position and agree with Ragtime. Being in love isn't like being a ninja, or a vampire, or a vampire slayer - those are identities, while being in love is a state. I can see the spell making Christian be in love, but I assumed that now that the spell was cast, he is just like any other lover. That means he should be able to fall out of love. He may be relctuant to do so - most people in love are - but it would be able to be possible.

If he is indeed in some sort of perma-love state, than it is, as Ragtime stated, a personality disorder.



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Reply #55 on: October 21, 2008, 10:09:47 PM
Ah, I see where you're going now.  I guess it does depend on how love is defined in this case.  What a conundrum.

ETA: in this case...
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 10:13:23 PM by DKT »



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Reply #56 on: October 22, 2008, 05:38:57 PM


Actually, if that is true, I must revise my position and agree with Ragtime.

If he is indeed in some sort of perma-love state, than it is, as Ragtime stated, a personality disorder.

So all I needed to get Eytanz to agree with me was to shut up for a few hours and let other people make my point better than I could?

Who knew?



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Reply #57 on: October 22, 2008, 05:57:49 PM


Actually, if that is true, I must revise my position and agree with Ragtime.

If he is indeed in some sort of perma-love state, than it is, as Ragtime stated, a personality disorder.

So all I needed to get Eytanz to agree with me was to shut up for a few hours and let other people make my point better than I could?

Who knew?

Oh, you weren't making your point badly. I was just working from a different reading of the story, it seems. A reading that I still maintain is valid, by the way - I just agree that the consequences of the reading DKT described are different.



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Reply #58 on: October 23, 2008, 02:55:19 AM
I just loved this. The battling santas sealed the deal for me, promptly evoking much hearty LOLing. :)



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Reply #59 on: October 23, 2008, 08:03:05 PM
It was an okay story, I just didn't get any sense of knowing anything about the protagonist other than she was overweight, and even that was mainly in the Hollywood sense of 'not being as thin as an anorexic stick-insect on a diet' rather than sounding as if she were proportioned like the people one might see every day in the street.

I think it could have done with being shorter, the joke, such as it was, was rather laboured at 50 minutes in length.



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Reply #60 on: October 25, 2008, 03:36:58 AM
Was thinking, how long would the vampire hunter really be busy?  Maybe I missed it but I didn't hear the range of the spell so how many people were really changed into vampires, ninjas, werewolves, witches etc.  How many people were there really changed for her to hunt?

Also, with all of you not liking Buffy you don't know that there was an episode were on halloween everyone changed in to what they were costumed as.  It was a small statue of a god instead of a pendant but the same basic story line. 



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Reply #61 on: October 25, 2008, 10:49:13 PM
Audio glitches and all, I liked it... Buffy as played by Janeane Garofalo!

What has kept bothering me, though, long after listening to the story is the effects of the spell that we don't hear about. For instance, would the care of all the Vampire, Werewolf and Ninja victims have been compromised by the effect of "naughty nurses" on the medical establishment? How would the Chuch have dealt with the influx of overage Catholic schoolgirls and ruler-wielding nuns? And what about all those furries standing in line at Starbucks?



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Reply #62 on: October 25, 2008, 11:02:09 PM
Audio glitches and all, I liked it... Buffy as played by Janeane Garofalo!

What has kept bothering me, though, long after listening to the story is the effects of the spell that we don't hear about. For instance, would the care of all the Vampire, Werewolf and Ninja victims have been compromised by the effect of "naughty nurses" on the medical establishment? How would the Chuch have dealt with the influx of overage Catholic schoolgirls and ruler-wielding nuns? And what about all those furries standing in line at Starbucks?

Again, the setting was a small mid-western college town in the summer, not a big city or even a college town with students in it. And the spell was cast in the middle of the day. Probably most of the above weren't an issue because even if the town had a strip club, it was probably not open yet. And however many people in town liked dressing up in fursuits, they probably were not dressed that way in their office.



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Reply #63 on: October 26, 2008, 01:53:39 AM
I really liked this story. Lillian is like an amalgamation of every insecure fat chick out there who is dissatisfied with their arm flab and other flab but has at least learned to accept her body shape, if not outright accept and embrace it. It was sort of annoying to constantly hear her bemoan her body shape but being a large woman myself I can't fully condemn her for it either. Being fat is so much harder than people know. You're physically unhealthy and on top of that you have to deal with shallow fools who feel its their duty to make you feel bad about yourself. I like how Lillian continued to show her reading of that Anglo-Saxon poem even though it made her uncomfortable and self-conscious. :) Maybe I enjoyed the story so much because I'm a jolly, fat feminist who's an ex-Buffyholic. Remember everyone: when life offers you a cookie, savor it without shame and when life offers someone else a cookie, look at that person without avarice.



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Reply #64 on: October 26, 2008, 09:36:04 PM
This whole topic is interesting to me and is actually one that kind of raises my hackles/makes my skin crawl - magically altering someone's perception of the world or of someone else and causing them to fall in love or become attracted to someone?  Creepy as HELL.

Amusingly enough, the first time I really looked it in the face and was freaked out was a Buffy episode.  Hurr hurr.  Some random jock at the school has a letter jacket that he inherited from his father that makes girls who see him DESPERATELY want him, and Buffy ends up essentially trying to get in his pants.

7.06 "Him", itself something of a retread of 2.16 "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered", when Xander manages to cast a spell that causes every girl and woman in Sunnydale fall in love with him (except Cordelia, the intended target).  (No, I don't know all the episode names and numbers: I looked them up.)

Buffy definitely had a problem in its later seasons of recycling ideas that had already been given definitive Buffyverse interpretations, with the new episodes tending to suffer from the comparison.  And this short story had no chance of avoiding familiar Buffy tropes -- which Buffy had usually already given a hefty postmodern spin to, leaving little room for new angles.  For all that, I thought "Dead Languages" stood up quite well.  The wit was sharp and the protagonist was well written.



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Reply #65 on: October 28, 2008, 08:51:57 PM
I wasn't a fan of this story.  The main character felt like a complete Mary Sue to me.  A overweight, non-confident, English teacher with guy problems gets magically transformed into a butt-kicking vampire hunter who has an attractive guy drooling over her.  I'm surprised she didn't magically get fit as well, but I guess the "muscles under the fat" covers that side of it.  I would've turned off the story before the amulet even got to that point, and assumed it was just a chunky chick whining about her lot in life.  Fortunately (I guess), my morbid curiosity won me over and I laughed my way though it.  Somehow, I don't think that was the intent.

The reader was excellent though.  Her voice just felt right, like she was simply re-telling her own story.  I just wish it was a better story.



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Reply #66 on: October 30, 2008, 07:56:06 PM
Gonna have to come back to this one.  Wayyyyyyyyy too much lip smacking going on.  I'll try it again when I'm more relaxed.

Haven't read this thread yet.  I can't stand the tv incarnation of Buffy, either.  The movie is great!



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Reply #67 on: October 31, 2008, 04:05:04 AM
I loved this story and M. K. Hobson was absolutely excellent! The embodiment of the characters. I've loved everything she's read so far. I'm not sure if it's her characterization or the stories. Perhaps it is synthesis. Bravo! Please keep up the good work. I would reward you with riches and splendor if I had any with which to reward you. Hmm..... then again perhaps I would leech from you every good thing that you have to offer until you are nothing but a dessicated husk. Um... where did that come from? Uh... Where was I? Oh yes, I love you gurls! You rock!

Also, Rachel, I do not like Buffy the Vampire Slayer either. I'm not sure you are so rare. I loved Firefly but I simply can not bring myself to enjoy Buffy. As far as I'm concerned it is absolutely silly. Not interested.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 03:31:31 AM by Hobart Floyt »

In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
  In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away—
  For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.


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Reply #68 on: October 31, 2008, 04:51:22 AM
I loved this story and M. K. Hobson was absolutely excellent! The embodiment of the characters. I've loved everything she's read so far. I'm not sure if it's her characterization or the stories. Perhaps it is synthesis. Bravo! Please keep up the good work. I would reward you with riches and splendor if I had any with which to reward you. Hmm..... then again perhaps I would leech from you every good thing that you have to offer until you are nothing but a dessicated husk. Um... where did that come from? Uh... Where was I? Oh yes, I love you gurls! You rock!

Also, Rachel, I also do not like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I'm not sure you are so rare. I loved Firefly but I simply can not bring myself to enjoy Buffy. As far as I'm concerned it is absolutely silly. Not interested.

I've never watched the Buffy TV series, nor been inclined to.  And I'm sure I've mentioned before that I'm unimpressed by Firefly.

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Reply #69 on: October 31, 2008, 02:50:20 PM
Finished it.  Liked it.  Could have been great if the editing had been better.



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Reply #70 on: October 31, 2008, 04:57:38 PM
Finished it.  Liked it.  Could have been great if the editing had been better.

You didn't download the fixed version?

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Zathras

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Reply #71 on: October 31, 2008, 07:28:50 PM
It said PC029a.  I was talking about the "cleanliness" of the sound.



Hobart Floyt

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Reply #72 on: October 31, 2008, 10:00:57 PM
I loved this story and M. K. Hobson was absolutely excellent! The embodiment of the characters. I've loved everything she's read so far. I'm not sure if it's her characterization or the stories. Perhaps it is synthesis. Bravo! Please keep up the good work. I would reward you with riches and splendor if I had any with which to reward you. Hmm..... then again perhaps I would leech from you every good thing that you have to offer until you are nothing but a dessicated husk. Um... where did that come from? Uh... Where was I? Oh yes, I love you gurls! You rock!

Also, Rachel, I also do not like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I'm not sure you are so rare. I loved Firefly but I simply can not bring myself to enjoy Buffy. As far as I'm concerned it is absolutely silly. Not interested.

I've never watched the Buffy TV series, nor been inclined to.  And I'm sure I've mentioned before that I'm unimpressed by Firefly.

You are Rachel Swirsky correct? ("That rare creature... peculiar and scarce seen thing...") You did say in the intro for this story that you tried watching Buffy didn't you? I listened again and that's what you said. I quote, "I even rented the first season from Blockbuster..." and  "Three episodes in and my mind was numb"

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
  In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away—
  For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.


eytanz

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Reply #73 on: October 31, 2008, 10:13:09 PM
I loved this story and M. K. Hobson was absolutely excellent! The embodiment of the characters. I've loved everything she's read so far. I'm not sure if it's her characterization or the stories. Perhaps it is synthesis. Bravo! Please keep up the good work. I would reward you with riches and splendor if I had any with which to reward you. Hmm..... then again perhaps I would leech from you every good thing that you have to offer until you are nothing but a dessicated husk. Um... where did that come from? Uh... Where was I? Oh yes, I love you gurls! You rock!

Also, Rachel, I also do not like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I'm not sure you are so rare. I loved Firefly but I simply can not bring myself to enjoy Buffy. As far as I'm concerned it is absolutely silly. Not interested.

I've never watched the Buffy TV series, nor been inclined to.  And I'm sure I've mentioned before that I'm unimpressed by Firefly.

You are Rachel Swirsky correct? ("That rare creature... peculiar and scarce seen thing...") You did say in the intro for this story that you tried watching Buffy didn't you? I listened again and that's what you said. I quote, "I even rented the first season from Blockbuster..." and  "Three episodes in and my mind was numb"

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure that StePH is not Rachel Swirsky. For one, StePH is a man and Rachel, as we discovered a few weeks ago, is a tree. Or possibly a woman. But certainly not a man.

Also, she posts in these forums under the rather unconfusing name "Rachel Swirsky".




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Reply #74 on: October 31, 2008, 10:59:36 PM
I loved this story and M. K. Hobson was absolutely excellent! The embodiment of the characters. I've loved everything she's read so far. I'm not sure if it's her characterization or the stories. Perhaps it is synthesis. Bravo! Please keep up the good work. I would reward you with riches and splendor if I had any with which to reward you. Hmm..... then again perhaps I would leech from you every good thing that you have to offer until you are nothing but a dessicated husk. Um... where did that come from? Uh... Where was I? Oh yes, I love you gurls! You rock!

Also, Rachel, I also do not like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I'm not sure you are so rare. I loved Firefly but I simply can not bring myself to enjoy Buffy. As far as I'm concerned it is absolutely silly. Not interested.

I've never watched the Buffy TV series, nor been inclined to.  And I'm sure I've mentioned before that I'm unimpressed by Firefly.

You are Rachel Swirsky correct? ("That rare creature... peculiar and scarce seen thing...") You did say in the intro for this story that you tried watching Buffy didn't you? I listened again and that's what you said. I quote, "I even rented the first season from Blockbuster..." and  "Three episodes in and my mind was numb"

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure that StePH is not Rachel Swirsky. For one, StePH is a man and Rachel, as we discovered a few weeks ago, is a tree. Or possibly a woman. But certainly not a man.

Also, she posts in these forums under the rather unconfusing name "Rachel Swirsky".

Also Opabinia, but that's only when she forgets she's on her husband's computer.

I've always thought StePH was a reincarnated Diogenes.

I Twitter. I also occasionally blog on the Escape Pod blog, which if you're here you shouldn't have much trouble finding.


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Reply #75 on: October 31, 2008, 11:03:24 PM
i always read it as ste.PH

as in the french female saint of acidity. probably cranberry juice.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 11:08:07 PM by deflective »



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Reply #76 on: October 31, 2008, 11:14:07 PM
You are Rachel Swirsky correct? ("That rare creature... peculiar and scarce seen thing...") You did say in the intro for this story that you tried watching Buffy didn't you? I listened again and that's what you said. I quote, "I even rented the first season from Blockbuster..." and  "Three episodes in and my mind was numb"

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong.  You're welcome.

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-- some guy interviewed in Nerdcore Rising


Hobart Floyt

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Reply #77 on: November 01, 2008, 03:03:34 AM
You are Rachel Swirsky correct? ("That rare creature... peculiar and scarce seen thing...") You did say in the intro for this story that you tried watching Buffy didn't you? I listened again and that's what you said. I quote, "I even rented the first season from Blockbuster..." and  "Three episodes in and my mind was numb"

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong.  You're welcome.

Thank you! (Like having a conversation with Mrs Cake from Terry Pratchett's Discworld)

Obviously, I'm new here. I've been listening since Podcastle's inception but I've never visited the forums. I just had to add my two cents after listening to Dead Languages though because I liked it so much.

I'm curious, you're a man and your name is Rachel? That's a very unusual name for a man at least in my experience.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 04:51:19 AM by Hobart Floyt »

In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
  In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away—
  For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.


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Reply #78 on: November 01, 2008, 03:30:43 AM
Er, I'm not sure why  you think Steph's name is Rachel, but I'm fairly sure his name isn't Rachel. I think you may have read something incorrectly. My guess is that you saw him quoting me, and assumed that meant he was me.

In any case, welcome to the forums.



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Reply #79 on: November 01, 2008, 03:44:44 AM
Er, I'm not sure why  you think Steph's name is Rachel, but I'm fairly sure his name isn't Rachel. I think you may have read something incorrectly. My guess is that you saw him quoting me, and assumed that meant he was me.

In any case, welcome to the forums.

Thank you!

I, perhaps mistakenly, assumed that he replied to a comment about Buffy that I directed toward you. If I was not mistaken he replied to a comment directed specifically at Rachel thus by inference, he is Rachel. I was trying to be witty. Apparently I failed.  If I had read through this thread I would not have mistaken him for Rachel Swirsky. Sorry! A bit of laziness on my part. No offense intended. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2008, 04:59:16 AM by Hobart Floyt »

In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
  In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away—
  For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.


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Reply #80 on: November 11, 2008, 02:18:10 PM
I'm curious, you're a man and your name is Rachel? That's a very unusual name for a man at least in my experience.

 :D it is to larf ....

No, my name is Stephen, pronunciation unlike that of Mr. Eley's.  What ever gave you the idea that my name was Rachel?

BTW my father used to tell me he had a friend in school named Beverly ... who was a real hardcase despite being a very short kid -- first day of every school year he would pick a fight with the biggest kid he saw, and according to my father, always kicked his ass.  Must be an example of the "Boy Named Sue" effect in action.

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Reply #81 on: November 14, 2008, 03:06:44 AM
I'm curious, you're a man and your name is Rachel? That's a very unusual name for a man at least in my experience.

 :D it is to larf ....

No, my name is Stephen, pronunciation unlike that of Mr. Eley's.  What ever gave you the idea that my name was Rachel?

BTW my father used to tell me he had a friend in school named Beverly ... who was a real hardcase despite being a very short kid -- first day of every school year he would pick a fight with the biggest kid he saw, and according to my father, always kicked his ass.  Must be an example of the "Boy Named Sue" effect in action.


It's a pleasure to make your acquaintance Stephen! My name is Gary or Hobart if you like.

In answer to your question. I never actually thought your name was Rachel. I directed my comments about Buffy toward Rachel Swirsky and you replied. So, by inference, you are Rachel. Just trying desperately to be funny.  ;D

In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
  In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away—
  For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.


izzardfan

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Reply #82 on: January 08, 2009, 10:45:42 AM
Late to the game, here, as I am working enjoying my way through Podcastle stories. I downloaded all of them as they were first available, through iTunes, so I still had the uncorrected version.  I enjoyed the story, mostly, loved MK's reading, and easily got past the editing glitches, but replaced my copy with the new version now.  (I keep ALL of the files, no matter how I feel about the stories.)  I would have said I'm a science fiction fan, rather than a fantasy fan--the main reason I didn't start listening to PC until I was completely caught up with EP (I don't listen to PP as horror now creeps me out, unlike when I read lots of Stephen King say, 20 years ago). But I'm (mostly) enjoying the fantasy stories on PC.

I haven't seen any Buffy (the movie or the TV show), as I'm not interested, despite loving vampire stories (Dracula, Anne Rice's entire series, etc.), so I only have the comments here to go by, but since Lillian specifically mentions Buffy, obviously the author is aware of the show, and might have even seen some episodes... like maybe the one that her story apparently so closely resembles?  Would that be considered plagiarism?






eytanz

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Reply #83 on: January 08, 2009, 01:26:56 PM

I haven't seen any Buffy (the movie or the TV show), as I'm not interested, despite loving vampire stories (Dracula, Anne Rice's entire series, etc.), so I only have the comments here to go by, but since Lillian specifically mentions Buffy, obviously the author is aware of the show, and might have even seen some episodes... like maybe the one that her story apparently so closely resembles?  Would that be considered plagiarism?

Nah, it's very clearly (if you're familiar with Buffy) an inspiration, but there's no particular episode that is very close to the contents of this story, just more a general tone and character archtypes (plucky young female vampire slayer being the main one).

But in general, plagarism in fiction requires direct borrowing - copying someone's actual words, or having the exact same sequence of events, with no changes at all. There's plenty of ways to take inspiration from an earlier story - including ways which are quite close to the original, such as retellings and some parodies - and none of them are considered plagarism.



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Reply #84 on: January 04, 2010, 08:27:40 PM
I've only seen bits and pieces of Buffy, and what I saw didn't really impress me.  Maybe I saw bad episodes, or maybe it's just not my thing.  I don't know.  I do know that I've been very surprised by how far-reaching Buffy fandom is, reaching far beyond the groups of people that I would usually predict it in. 

But I loved Firefly.  Entirely in hindsight I'm afraid, I never watched an episode until a couple years after it was cancelled, but then watched the episodes almost all back to back on DVD.  Love it!

Anyway, this was not a bad story.  I would've preferred it to get to the fantasy part a little earlier.  As it is, the beginning is mostly the woman bemoaning her dating problems and her arm flab.  Note that I'm not complaining about the protagonist's problems, nor her bemoaning, as character traits, but they are not a particularly driving central conflict for me.  Once the fantasy elements happened, it was much easier to get into it.

The idea was an intriguing one and I thought it was reasonably well executed.  The reader did an excellent job portraying the character which enhanced the story significantly.  The central idea was original (at least to me, since I haven't seen the related Buffy episodes) and well-written.  It's a fun premise that makes me wonder what else could've been transformed, which to me is added value to the story. 

For what it's worth, I didn't sense a coercion of love in this story, but perhaps I've just forgotten, I listened to this one quite a while back.  In any case, I don't see a problem with it as presented, since her intent was not to coerce his love.  And to address whether or not SHE should've been more attracted to him AFTER, I got the impression that she kind of liked him before, but as a defense mechanism she put up her full smartass-shield to blow him off because she assumed he wasn't interested in her.  Once he became interested in her, she didn't need the shield and could let herself feel what she felt.  Just a thought.

I also did like the non-traditional elements, like the fact that the spell was irreversible, and the non-entity boyfriend who was neither inherently good nor bad but just kind of a barely seen character that is of little interest even to our protagonist.