Author Topic: Grant Morrison  (Read 8656 times)

kibitzer

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on: September 02, 2009, 03:10:33 AM
From the Disney/Marvel thread I see a few of you are into graphic novels (ahem).

So, question: do you like Grant Morrison's writing? I ask because I've developed a dislike of his stuff, almost to the point where I won't read anything he's written. However, he seems to be doing just about everything at DC (or was at one stage) and people rave about him.

I just don't get it.


oddpod

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Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 07:46:21 AM
BURN THE HERITIC!!!!!!!
flay the skin from his evil bones!!!
recant!! RECANT OR FEAL THE RATH OF THE FANBOY INQUISISHON!!!!!!

card carying dislexic and  gramatical revolushonery


kibitzer

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Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 08:37:49 AM
Umm... sorry?

Well... actually I'm not. :-)  I recently borrowed Final Crisis -- couldn't get past the first couple of pages. Meh.


Alasdair5000

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Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 10:29:28 AM
From the Disney/Marvel thread I see a few of you are into graphic novels (ahem).

So, question: do you like Grant Morrison's writing? I ask because I've developed a dislike of his stuff, almost to the point where I won't read anything he's written. However, he seems to be doing just about everything at DC (or was at one stage) and people rave about him.

I just don't get it.

Morrison, like contemporaries Ellis and Ennis actually, is amazingly variable.  When he's on form you get Zenith which is the flat out best take on superheroes in the last twenty years and, unfortunately, almost completely certain to never ever be reprinted.  His Batman:Arkham Asylum graphic novel is excellent too.  Likewise Vimanrama and We3 and the first two thirds of his new X-Men run. 

But yeah, Final Crisis is a bit...iffy



kibitzer

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Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 12:12:03 PM
Actually, I haven't liked him since he pulled that cheap trick at the end of his Animal Man run.

Although, I will admit that I recently read the first collection of All-Star Superman and liked it.


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Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 12:30:18 PM
You like Fables but not Grant Morrison? I'm not sure there's any hope for you  ;)

Al's right, though. Morrison is either on or off. For me, it was the New X-Men that sold me on him, although I'd read some of his earlier Batman stuff (Arkham Asylum and Gothic). Also the first volume of the Invisibles and Seven Soldiers. I love all of these. I also dig that he's trying to write smart comic books. So for me, even when he gets lost like at the end Seven Soldiers, it was still enjoyable to see how he got there.

That said, I haven't read most of the recent DC Verse stuff like Final Crisis or 52 or even Batman RIP, and I'm really not that interested.

Need to get my hands on All-Star Superman...


davedoty

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Reply #6 on: September 02, 2009, 12:39:46 PM
And I thought the end of Animal Man was beautiful and brilliant.

Final Crisis was definitely not a strong work for him.  When he returned to DC, he did 9 quick issues for Vertigo right off the bat, and then did nothing but superheroes for years.  Grant Morrison has two sides to him, and I think his work suffers if he does only one or the other.  He'd gone too long without writing anything "artsy", and that bled through and distorted Final Crisis, which should have been the apotheosis of his "superhero" side.  (Same thing happened to Batman RIP almost simultaneously.)

But I still think the bulk of his work (including most of Batman outside of RIP) is brilliant.



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Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 03:24:44 PM
You like Fables but not Grant Morrison? I'm not sure there's any hope for you  ;)

I meant to this, I remember you saying something about BKV, so deep down, I know you're really alright.


Sgarre1

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Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 03:47:32 PM
Oh, me and Grant Morrison.... (sorry, this is going to be a bit long)

I'm not kidding when I say that I consider him the singularly most-talented and important writer working in superhero comics, who has done more to steer capes out of the "dark and gritty" morass (that Alan Moore warned against in the seminal works that actually helped start that trend - it's inherent in WATCHMEN, but "Pictopia" probably summed it up best - shame everyone was so dazzled that nobody was listening), retaining that much-vaunted "sense of wonder" and optimism that superheroes need (or at least the serial/soap-opera versions) and were losing as they devolved into adolescent sadism, while at the same time not getting all treacly and maudlin like some I could name (*cough*Busiek*cough*).

But he has his flaws and, more importantly, how people react to his work has a lot to do with what the reader is reading superhero comics *for* (I'll get to the non-super stuff in a bit).  I've often felt he's writing specifically for me (we're about the same age) as my experience is that younger readers tend to only fixate on the flash and dazzle or cool ideas (which are cool, no doubt) and miss the wonderful referencing and healthy respect he has for the history (without being a continuity slave), while older readers or people my age either mistakenly lumped him in with the "Kewl" writers of the time ("he writes for Vertigo and thinks he so smart with his big ideas, plus he has "differently gendered" people in his books, ukky!  Doesn't he know that the 'Death of Phoenix' was the ultimate comics story?!"), assuming he was all surface or too dark (anyone who'd read his FF-tribute issue of DOOM PATROL at the time knew that was bunk).

In fact, he's also occasionally written some of the most moving moments I know in modern superhero comics.  A friend and I were talking comics recently and he asked me, out of the blue, "has there ever been anything that made you cry?" and I said sure - there are a few examples, some non-super stuff from Clowes or Los Hernandez, but the two that sprang instantly to mind were: the ending of ANIMAL MAN where, in direct conflict with "kewlness", audience expectation and even continuity, Buddy is given his family back because it's the right thing to do and compassion and wonder are the most important thing in the world  ("when I was a child...").  Secondly, the ending of DOOM PATROL ("there is a better world...well, there must be.") which is both beautiful and heart-breaking. I still think DOOM PATROL is one of the most moving, complicated and important explorations of and ruminations on the purposes, uses for and limitations of "art" and "strangeness" that anyone produced in the 20th Century.  But it's a superhero comic, so no one paid attention (except, seemingly, a bunch of adolescents at the time who are now creators in their own right).

So he's writing to neither the Claremeont/Wolfman/Busiek, soap-opera/continuity superhero model, nor the Miller/Image-era/ultra-violent, ultra-realism, tough-guy/cool-crowd model.  In fact, a large part of his work seems inspired by the 60's/70's Arnold Drake/Steve Gerber "Fun/High Weirdness" approach to superheroes, seen through a post Alan Moore lens (that is to say, you can have "big ideas" but comics are also disposable trash).  And some people don't want that, it's not what they like about superheroes (and that's fine, of course).  And he does include elements of both of those standard approaches (the optimism and history of the former, the flash-action and pop-culture buzz of the latter), all while remembering that superhero comics should be for, well, not kids anymore, but adolescents - smart ones.  I guess I'm stating this just to defuse any idea of a "Grant Morrison fans are all deluded/Grant Morrison haters just don't get it" stupidity that chokes the web.

Because, as a fan from the start (not ZOIDS era, to be honest, but I did buy the original Trident comics ST. SWITHIN'S DAY off the stands - "it was worth it, just to see her scared") I can say that he does have flaws.  Primary is what I call the "Curse of Over-Respecting Your Audience" or "Grant Morrison missed a few Pages" syndrome.  He's often got so many ideas, and is juggling so much stuff, that he assumes everyone is following along when he's not actually supplying enough storytelling beats for all the material he wants to include (and god forbid he jettison some of it!).  I'm not kidding when I say that there are important story details in issues of THE INVISIBLES or THE FILTH that took me multiple, multiple re-reads to decipher or pick up (his sometimes lousy artists don't help - see below).

And it's not just big idea comics, BATMAN R.I.P. had some amazing stuff going on but was so cluttered (and so reliant on keeping details from his earlier arcs in mind, another Morrison trademark) that I can't blame anyone for losing track.

The shame of it is the beauty of some pay-offs really gets lost in the clutter.  The actual, real, real, real reason for the name "Zur-En-Arrh" in BATMAN R.I.P. (not the mind-breaking, post-hypnotic suggestion from Dr. Hurt, nor the back-up "Rainbow Batman" survivorpersonality, nor the original Silver-Age, Batman-in-space/sensory deprivation tank hallucination, the real reason revealed on the last page of the arc) is so interesting and amazing, such a great way of reinterpreting Bruce's origin, tearing him out of the reductionist, grim-n-gritty, violent-psychopath-obsessed-with-his-parent's-death-who-works-for-good version, such a death knell to that approach that inevitably led to the "asshole Batman" of the previous decade, while STILL being psychologically complex AND valid within continuity, that it took my breath away.  I didn't put the pieces of it together until two days after I read it, and considering the silence from the comics community (not that I checked, honestly), I think it might have sailed over the collective heads of the readers.  Which is a shame, but that's another Morrison-ism - he's constantly spreading all these wonderful new takes on characters or re-inventions that open up new possibilities (for newer storytellers and younger readers) and yet most of them end up laying fallow.

Look at X-MEN, in which he worked hard to use mostly in-continuity stuff (not counting Xavier's twin sister) to re-inevnt the franchise out of the doldrums it had fallen into, just to have Marvel and their lumpen creators shrug their shoulders and follow it with a big event that returned to business as usual (The curse of that book is that everyone wants to rewrite their Claremont adolescence, "Kitty's First Day" and "Wolverine as tough guy" scenes).  Even the last arc, the homage to (but also kind of a piss-take on) the "Days of Future Past" model that has plagued X-MEN with bad stories since Claremont did it initially (Claremont's was good, don't get me wrong but even he realized it was a melodrama-generating machine for his soap opera and milked it accordingly) made such a great point about these time-travel stories (that there are no "pivot moments" to travel back to and fix, EVERY moment is a pivot moment - Scott says "no" and an entire future timeline comes into being, but if Scott says "Yes", it doesn't).

So, that's a big flaw.  But it's a complicated flaw because it partially arises out of good intentions - the desire not to hold the reader's hand too much.  But if the reader has forgotten stuff between issues, or doesn't get the reference, or isn't reading closely enough, or if the artist sucks or doesn't pull off the direction (Morrison has worked with some great, if slow, artists like Frank Quitely and some appropriate, if not popular, artists like Richard Case, but he's also worked with some sloppy, pop-action styled artists, sometimes to his storytelling detriment) then the reader is lost - which is a pity, because he's one of the few comics authors (Moore's another) worth the effort.

AND it's inevitable that such a widescreen view of the potential of ideas and characters and universes (as he said, he grew up loving the idea of Earth-1/Earth-2/Earth3 etc. in DC and, just when he gets there, they trashcan the concept.  So one of the first he things he did, way back in ANIMAL MAN, was to plant the seeds of its return with Anthro's cave drawings) can get out of control and FINAL CRISIS, while not as awful as some would have it, was the prefect storm for a talent and approach like Morrison's, while also hitting his flaws - large scale, operatic story with no time or space for explanations or details, and having to cram in everyone else's agendas as well, it was doomed to fail.  Ironic, in that FINAL CRISIS is so jammed packed that it doesn't even have space for an underlying Morrisonian "big idea", which actually got shunted off to Morrison's SUPERMAN BEYOND (3-D) 3-issue spin-off mini-series.

SEVEN SOLDIERS, examined and taken as a whole, was much more successful as a critique of the current superhero comics scene.  I could write loads about that, but will suffice to say that the symbolic act of writerly "psychic surgery" wherein the rotting "heart" of the DC universe (Cyrus Gold - Solomn Grundy/Swamp Thing analogue encasing Zor/Alan Moore analogue) is removed and much older (Kirby), more empowering, more powerful concept (Mister Miracle making the ultimate escape) fills the void, was just magic.  The fact that Zatanna got all of us readers to help just sweetened the deal.

And there lays the point of all this (and I thank you for reading this far and apologize for the digressions) - if what you don't like about Morrison goes all the way back to the end of ANIMAL MAN (and by that, I assume you mean the fourth-wall breaking) than Morrison's DC superhero stuff may never be for you.  Because that moment ("I can see you!" - it gave me shivers when I first read it, sitting in some shitty little college dorm in Coventry Polytechnic in 1989), that concept, that idea, is behind almost everything Morrison has ever done with superheroes in the DC Universe.

I don't mean it's an idea he's milked, nor some kind of storytelling limitation (a lot of his non-DC stuff have different ideas entirely), what I mean is it is his over-riding theme and his, in an occult sense, Great Work - he wants to breach the world of superheroes and our own and bring them together.  Literally.

Oh, how that manifests in the real world is up for debate.  I don't think he actually expects to see Superman flying in the real world anytime soon.  But his stories constanty work, rework and update this concept.  DC universe characters are constantly being awakened to and reminded of the fact that they are fictional.  Animal Man knows it, Zatanna knows it, the Joker (I think) knows it.  Superman got a big hint in SUPERMAN BEYOND.  And there are millions of little details scattered throughout his work (we are the infant universe of Qward that featured highly in JLA and SEVEN SOLDIERS, for example).  FLEX MENTALLO even lays out something of a blueprint for this migration/merging.  And Morrison is pretty serious about it.

Now, if that idea doesn't work for you, his DC stuff may not be for you.  May I suggest, as examples of his best, stand-alone work:


WE3 - short, punchy, touching, well done.

VIMANARAMA - if Jack Kirby had done Bollywood-styled, hindu-mythology superhero comics.  Fun (and a great kids read).

THE FILTH - difficult but amazing meditation on dangers and purposes of infection and innoculation (of all kinds, literal, mental, spiritual) and the importance of scale, all dressed up in a skin of Gerry Anderson/THUNDERBIRDS visual style combined with a porno movie. Not for the faint of heart (lot of sex) but the ultimate point is quite profound.  A definite anodyne for those who think the modern world is depressingly out-of-control and corrupt, but not through the usual "happy-shiny" bullshit approach.  Even more hilarious to realize it started life as a NICK FURY: AGENT OF SHIELD pitch!

SEAGUY - fun, flighty, breezy, post-modern mythology with some things to say about the modern entertainment world.  Went over a lot of heads.  The second volume spelled things out a bit more.  Third to come.

FLEX MENTALLO - meditation on why superheroes are important (to them and us).


If you don't dig superheroes, just stick with WE3 and THE FILTH.  And, as I said, he just may not be for you anyway.

(as an aside, I loved THE INVISIBLES but it was very much an in-the moment read - not to say it's dated - and, while all the ideas are great, and hopefully being rediscovered by subsequent generations of adolescents, it may not hold the same intensity for the adult reader after the fact.  Plus, the ending is a little flubbed.)

Oh, me and Grant Morrison, we go back a ways.... 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 11:08:40 PM by Sgarre1 »



kibitzer

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Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 11:21:04 PM
@Sgarro, wow. Seriously, thanks for taking the time to post. That gives me some idea of why people seem to revere Morrison so highly.

I'm big into superheroes myself -- more of a DC guy than anything, and Batman's always been my favourite. For re-interpretation/re-invention of the Batman mythos, you really can't go past Miller's Batman Returns. Funnily enough, I recently read the All-Star Batman stuff by Miller and did not like it AT ALL -- it seemed forced.

For myself, Busiek's Astro City series is, to me, fresh and inventive. "Confession" and "The Tarnished Angel" are two of the best things I've read and I keep returning to them. Bendis' "Powers" series is also wonderful.

The "fourth wall" stuff IS what I was referring to with Morrison. I'll say it again -- to me it seemed a really cheap trick, and one from which you can't convincingly return. That's to me -- as I say, from your essay here, I begin to see why people think GM is cool. It's funny -- "Seven Soldiers" I didn't finish; "Seaguy" I found completely baffling; isn't "we3" just a re-hash of "The Amazing Three?"

Please understand, it's not my intention to insult or flame here; I'm genuinely baffled by GM's popularity, and I have few people with whom I can discuss such things. I'm mildly sick of the knowing winks I get when I admit to reading graphic novels. :-)


kibitzer

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Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 11:22:43 PM
You like Fables but not Grant Morrison? I'm not sure there's any hope for you  ;)

I meant to this, I remember you saying something about BKV, so deep down, I know you're really alright.

Yes, like a wanker I mentioned BKV and a couple others in a comment on the Captain Fantasy Podcastle ep. :-) I probably shouldn't have done that but I find short superhero fiction difficult.


Sgarre1

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Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 11:58:25 PM
Quote
isn't "we3" just a re-hash of "The Amazing Three?"

Heh, I'm just old enough to remember THE AMAZING THREE.  No, it isn't - technically, it's science fiction, but that's just high-tech stuff (no aliens or anything).  Probably, of everything he's done, it's the most accessible (even with the strange hyper-realist-manga-cubist art style) and is being developed for the screen.  Worth getting from the library (it's a quick read).

I shouldn't knock Busiek - ASTRO CITY is some beautiful stuff - but I do feel he's basically writing for people like himself, older readers who grew up reading comics and now want adult (and by that I mean serious, not sexy), nostalgic takes on juvenile ideas.  Which is fine and can even make for some great reading (ASTRO CITY, again).  But Morrison is the one of the few current writers I know who seems to be writing for the forgotten audience, teens that used to read superhero comics but, in increasingly large numbers, don't (they've been lost to manga, mostly).  His new BATMAN AND ROBIN is aces - breezy, action-packed fun, something BATMAN hasn't been in quite a while.  The characterization of Damien as the new Robin is also smile-inducing for a longtime Morrison reader, as it's an iteration of  idea he's been developing in different ways - the bratty "Child of The New Aeon" - as seen in Dan McGowan from INVISIBLES, Marvel Boy, Klarion and now Damien.

I can honestly say that I enjoyed DARK KNIGHT RETURNS when I bought it off the racks but it hasn't held up as I've grown older (although partly that's due to how many people used it as a template for the ongoing series Batman character, making him darker and darker and less and less a detective and more and more a jerk).  That's nothing against Miller - BATMAN YEAR ONE is still a wonderful piece of work and ELEKTRA:ASSASSIN always, hands down, wins my "forgotten gems" entry for great comic books - although recent Miller has been pretty embarrassing - he seems to have started believing his own press while getting sloppier and sloppier.  I couldn't sit through more than 15 minutes of THE SPIRIT, due to the sound of Will Eisner doing the old dynamo in his grave.

« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 01:24:45 PM by Sgarre1 »



kibitzer

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Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 12:44:07 AM
With the "older readers grown up vs. teens not reading superheros" you make a great point I hadn't considered. Yes. Makes sense.

BTW you say "worth getting from the library"... enormous props to my local library system for starting to buy graphic novels several years ago. It's cut the expense of (sorta) keeping up considerably. :-)


davedoty

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Reply #13 on: September 03, 2009, 01:10:35 PM
When you referred to the ending of Animal Man as a "cheap trick," I thought you meant using the fourth wall to resurrect Buddy's family, rather than the fourth wall itself.

I found his use of the fourth wall brilliant, much better than anything I've seen before or since (including from Morrison himself.)  Instead of using it for parody, humor, or commentary, he really immersed himself in what it would be like to see that you are a fictional creation.  It really tries to explore the nature of reality, and how our world might be a similar manipulated, constructed narrative (the Wiley Coyote character "escaped" into Buddy's world just as Buddy "escaped" into ours, suggesting that our world his just the next layer of the onion.  And even if I have less use for the psychedelic metaphysical conjecture than I used to, I appreciate it making me think at the time.

Grant gets lots of attention for writing himself into the comic, which he deserves.  Unlike pretty much any other such attempt, he *really* writes himself in.  It's not just a jokey appearance, he really explores how he feels about the book and characters, the influences and reasons he wrote things the way he did.  But what's forgotten is that he also wrote us in as readers.  Not in any kind of stereotypical or presumptive way.  He doesn't project any traits or gender onto the reader when the characters see us.  They don't assume that you're a comic book fan, or that you were reading it at the time, or that you're a regular reader of the series.  When the character sees you, he really sees YOU.  And, of course, the villain at the climax of the story is attempting to break out of the comic and kill the reader, making me (and you, when you read it) the innocent saved.

Plus, of course, the message about kindness, and looking for goodness, and doing the right thing that's already been discussed.

Anyway, I love it to bits.

OTOH, I completely missed whatever brilliant subtext RIP had, since my attention wandered.  Do tell.



Sgarre1

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Reply #14 on: September 03, 2009, 03:29:03 PM
Quote
OTOH, I completely missed whatever brilliant subtext RIP had, since my attention wandered.  Do tell.

Well, first, it's not the subtext, it's just an interesting twist that caps off the subtext that was running through the entire Morrison BATMAN run - an examination of the character of Batman through the introduction of various versions or copies of him: the three "backup Batmen" that were involved in the GCPD project (one of which the Joker kills on the first page, first panel of Morrison's run claiming "I'VE finally Killed Batman!"); the Club of Heroes/Batmen of Many Lands characters; Damien as adult Batman in the future; the "Rainbow Batman of Zur-En-Arrh" backup personality, Bat-Might).

I imagine this would be considered spoilery so:

SPOILER

To lay it out in order - early in his career, Bruce deliberately underwent testing in a sensory deprivation tank under the auspices of Dr. Hurt.  While in the tank he hallucinated many strange Batman adventures (thus making many oddball Silver Age Batman stories "canonical", even though they only happened in Bruce's mind).  One such hallucination was the "Rainbow Batman of Zur-En-Arrh", an outer space story of Batman split into two characters and living on some alien planet.  Dr. Hurt, monitoring these sessions, latches on to the name and uses it as the trigger for a post-hypnotic suggestion that will cause Bruce to mentally crack when it is activated.
Bruce himself, unaware that this term is known to anyone but himself, uses "Zur-En-Arrh" as a code word to trigger his ultimate escape plan (against the possibility of anyone trying to mentally break him) because he's all about pre-planning and foresight.  His "Zur-En-Arrh" personality is designed to operate short-term, a back-up operating system to drive his body if his mind is broken, and get him out of danger.

Both of these events come to pass during the course of BATMAN R.I.P. ...but we never get the explanation of why the term "Zur-En-Arrh" is in Bruce's mind at all to begin with, why his mind dredged it up as a name during the hallucination.  In one issue (it may have been the Ra's Al Ghul arc) there's a flashback to Bruce's training days pre-Batman where he goes to Nanda Parbit to get some martial arts and mental training.  At this time he undergoes some ritual where he's entombed alive and fights an internal mental battle.  Afterwards, discussing it, he says something like (and I'm paraphrasing here) "I sensed something though, something like a scar, like a word etched on my mind" and we see "Zur-En-Arrh" written backwards.  The monk alludes to the murder of his parents and Bruce says something like "no, it's not that.  I've made my peace with that.  This was something else."

We'd seen the "Zur-En-Arrh written backwards panel" a few times throughout the run and it's obviously referencing the dual implants, but the chronological placing of this scene implies that it's something deeper, something from before the isolation tank or the self-programming.

And in the last page of BATMAN R.I.P. we see the familiar moment of trauma played out again.  Thomas and Martha Wayne are leaving the movie.  Bruce has loved it, he's excited by the swashbuckling, jumping around. Zorro is the greatest hero ever.  "Wouldn't it be great" he says, "if there really WAS a Zorro to help people?  Wouldn't it be great if he rode down the street right now?" And Thomas Wayne says something like "I don't know son.  The world isn't like that.  I think that if there was someone like that in the world, they'd put Zorro in Arkham."

And we see the panel again "Zur-En-Arrh"...

And Bruce says "what?"

And Joe Chill's hand, clutching the gun, is seen entering the last panel, as it always will...

"Zur-En-Arrh"

"Zorro in Arkham"

Bruce isn't Batman because he can't get over the death of his parents.  The injustice of that hideous moment inspired him, but it isn't what drives him.  What drives him is the last thing his father ever said to him.  He is Batman because he's trying to prove to his father that it isn't crazy to do this, that it isn't crazy to dress up and inspire fear while helping people.  That "they" wouldn't throw Zorro in Arkham.  Being Batman is meant to inspire, not to punish (neither himself nor others) - it is a challenge to or refutation of his father's complacency, not a pathology.

And, really, I thought that was just beautiful.....


sidenote - the "written backwards" thing is another visual storytelling device Morrison started fooling with back in SEVEN SOLDIERS, in the Zatanna comic ('natch), although there it serves as an interesting explanation for why Zatanna's magic involved backward's words all this time (and as usual, it's never directly explicated, I just picked it up through inference).



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Reply #15 on: September 03, 2009, 04:14:42 PM
So much talk for someone I've never even heard of.

::Ducks and Runs::



Bdoomed

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Reply #16 on: September 03, 2009, 07:58:57 PM
So much talk for someone I've never even heard of.

::Ducks and Runs::
DITTO! (hey! wait up!)

I'd like to hear my options, so I could weigh them, what do you say?
Five pounds?  Six pounds? Seven pounds?


kibitzer

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Reply #17 on: September 04, 2009, 12:13:37 AM
I've clearly brought a knife to a gunfight.  ;D


stePH

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Reply #18 on: September 04, 2009, 01:45:01 AM
So much talk for someone I've never even heard of.

::Ducks and Runs::

I did read Arkham Asylum but anything in the writing that may have been worthwhile was completely destroyed by Dave McKeans shitty artwork.  So I'm not qualified to give an opinion on Grant Morrison.

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davedoty

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Reply #19 on: September 04, 2009, 05:10:25 AM
So much talk for someone I've never even heard of.

::Ducks and Runs::

I know that that was just a one-off comment, but some context for people who feel lost:

Grant Morrison is one of the biggest names in comics.  Most authors of artsy, non-superhero stuff either look down on superheroes (Garth Ennis), or write at a much lower level in their superhero work (Alan Moore's 90s and 00s superhero comics, with Promethea being an exception).

Grant Morrison does both, and infuses both his Vertigo and superhero work with as much thought and intellectual vigor as he can.

He's also a blockbuster sales-wise; he turned the Justice League from a languishing anachronism to a blockbuster hit, and his X-Men was the best-selling X-Book in years and years.

He also has a large body of indie work, although he tends to take those kinds of projects to Vertigo for the last several years.



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Reply #20 on: September 04, 2009, 07:49:33 PM
stePh said
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I did read Arkham Asylum but anything in the writing that may have been worthwhile was completely destroyed by Dave McKeans shitty artwork.  So I'm not qualified to give an opinion on Grant Morrison.

I'd agree.  McKean is a great artist (check out CAGES, writing and art by him - interesting series that contains an absolutely amazing graphical representation of one of my favorite kinds of music, 70's free jazz, in an early issue) but, as Morrison himself said in a later interview, he was absolutely the worst choice for ARKHAM ASYLUM's artist.  Morrison had intended it to be a story wherein Batman's journey through the asylum was also a walk through his mind, with each foe representing a part of Bruce's overall psyche - and you would be able to trace that route like reading a blueprint of Arkham itself (including a trapdoor/secret tunnel escape route moment).  Unfortunately, McKean's artwork moved in exactly the opposite direction.

ARKHAM ASYLUM was, on the other hand, the point where he got to introduce his concept that the Joker is a MPD where all the personalities are The Joker, just different versions of the Joker - a nice way of explaining how you could have bank-robber, crimelord Joker, psychotic smiling fish-gag Joker, world-domination Injustice Gang joining Joker, socialite jewel-thief Joker, etc.  There's even a hint that the Joker himself isn't actually aware of this and so may have many hideouts, resources, plans going at the same time, and he just walks in and out of them.  This was also expanded on in AZTEK and finally came to fruition in the not-completely successful "text"/computer image issue of Morrison's BATMAN run where Joker switches over to a personality that could only be called smething like "Omega Joker", really dark and nihilistic.  The prose itself was far too purple, but I did like one of the ideas in it - Harlequin's realization that *this* Joker doesn't have any feelings at all for her, even in their "abusive relationship" sense, he'd just as soon kill her as she's just another piece of rotting meat to him and besides, this Joker's humor is way too dark for her.  He doesn't make her laugh.

Davedoty wrote
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Grant gets lots of attention for writing himself into the comic, which he deserves.  Unlike pretty much any other such attempt, he *really* writes himself in.  It's not just a jokey appearance, he really explores how he feels about the book and characters, the influences and reasons he wrote things the way he did.

A cute thing about this is that John Ostrander, near the very end of his run of SUICIDE SQUAD (which, once upon a time was a great monthly read, and SECERT SIX has taken up its approach on the current stands) included a character called "The Writer" into one of the suicide missions - a chalk-skinned bloke exactly matching Morrison's appearance in ANIMAL MAN, who had a keyboard with which he could rewrite reality (this didn't save him from not surviving the mission, however).  So Morrison died in the DC Universe as well, although I have a sneaking suspicion that a member of the Ultramarines that he included in his 3-issue JLA: CONFIDENTIAL arc, "The Master", who re-writes reality with his "quantum keyboard", may be "The Writer" resurrected. 




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Reply #21 on: September 04, 2009, 09:07:59 PM
stePh said
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I did read Arkham Asylum but anything in the writing that may have been worthwhile was completely destroyed by Dave McKeans shitty artwork.  So I'm not qualified to give an opinion on Grant Morrison.

I'd agree.  McKean is a great artist ...


At risk of beating a dead horse into the ground, I must clarify my point ... I absolutely despise everything Dave McKean does.  Any project is ultimately diminished by his involvement.  I won't even look at Gaiman's Black Orchid or Signal to Noise; I glanced at Mr. Punch before I really knew who McKean was*, and hated the artwork enough to give it a miss despite it being a Gaiman-written book.

* early on in my beginning to collect Gaiman's Sandman books; my only previous experience with McKean was in the fourth book of Stephen King's Dark Tower series (Wizard and Glass.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 09:09:54 PM by stePH »

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Reply #22 on: September 04, 2009, 09:22:30 PM
stePh said
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I did read Arkham Asylum but anything in the writing that may have been worthwhile was completely destroyed by Dave McKeans shitty artwork.  So I'm not qualified to give an opinion on Grant Morrison.

I'd agree.  McKean is a great artist ...


At risk...

Surely, you jest :) The horse died sometime last year, I believe...


stePH

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Reply #23 on: September 04, 2009, 10:31:29 PM
Surely, you jest :) The horse died sometime last year, I believe...

I'm quite serious, and don't call me Surely.  Or Shirley.  :P

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Reply #24 on: September 05, 2009, 08:55:45 AM
Well people, Shirly you can't object to McKean's covers for Sandman??