Norm Sherman co-hosting Escape Pod (or is it Mr. Nunez?)

[Swamp]

I thought this discussion deserved its own thread.

First of all let's hear from the man himself, Norm Sherman:

Just a co-host folks, no worries!  From what I understand you'll only have to deal with me on a somewhat consistent basis. 
For what it's worth, I was expecting this week's story (Kress) to be my "hey everyone!" episode, not Boyfriend, which perhaps was a bit guilty of excessive and acute Normisms... (these shows are recorded well in advance, btw.)  Sorry if you were left a bit befuddled.  I'll only say things like "glory hole" in R rated stories, and I'll be Mr. Nice Norm in any others, pwomise.
 
In general, I'll do my best to set the story up well and leave you with a decent-enough taste in your mouth after the show is done. 
I'm not Steve Eley at all.  I love the guy, but if I tried to be him I would fail miserably. 
I'm Norm, and while your criticisms are more than welcome and considered on my part, I am who I am, and that's who I'll continue to be, because that's why I'm here.  Similarly, Escapepod will continue to be what it is: a great frikkin science fiction podcast, and what I say won't change that at all, because-- even though Steve is amazing-- what got us all here is the great science fiction, right?
However,...

That said, I also don't want to detract from the effectiveness of Escapepod as a whole.  Gimme a lil time, and if my style begins to rub most people the wrong way, then I'm not too stubborn to tone it down.  Because again, this isn't about me, it's about the stories.

Here are the supporters:

Great new co-host. 

Where did you dig this guy up? 

and the new guy was pretty good too

Oh, and also Norm Sherman makes me very, very happy.

As for Norm, I love his intros, and found myself snorting out loud several times (to the alarm of my co-workers) at his dry and off-beat humor.  I believe EP's in good hands.

Liked Norm

I LOVE having Norm as co-host!  I can see how this is going to be great for Escapepod.  If you listen to his music you know how witty and hilarious he is.  If you listen to his show you know how great his hosting and narration is.  While I cracked up at his Nigerian online relationship and Iphone Glory-hole application, I agree that this was maybe an over-dose of his style and sense of humor.  It was all in the spirit of the story yes, but maybe a "Hey everyone I'm the new guy, Norm, not Steve, here's a few weird/mild jokes to get you acclimated" would have helped the transition here, rather than full-blown Norm-on-sexy-cyber-talk.  Lil' all the sudden.
In humor and pop culture, I'm normally the girl who's like "what, why does everyone think this guy is awesome?  That was lame!"
But with Norm I've gotta side with the majority here.

Norm just needs to settle in to the gig.  It takes a while to figure out what works for each audience.  Al went through the same thing at PP.  Now his monologues are my favorite part of PP

Here are those with mixed feelings:

I wasn't going to say anything, but I'll chime in regarding Mr. Sherman. 
Drabblecast is one of my favorite podcasts, and I wish every episode had a long, meaty intro from Norm.  I listen to Drabblecast B-sides, and if he did another one I would listen to that.
However, I found myself wishing he would get to the story on EP.  I can't explain it other than I was used to the Escape Pod brand.  It's like going into McDonalds and finding fried plantains instead of fried potatoes.  Not bad, but not really what you were looking for and used to.  Personally, I'm a little warey of Norm on the Escape Pod.  Norm is awesome, and I'm happy he has the exposure and I wish him all the exposure in the world, but this means a little less diversity in my playlist.

It is an abrupt change, I sure do agree with that and it will take a bit for me to get used to him.  I do like Steve more, tho Norm ain't too bad.   He was speaking truth when he talked about losing a sexy teacher and getting some freak.  because when all is said and done, will you have benefited from listening to these episodes?

Norms attempted humorous intro to the last episode "boyfriend" caught me by surprise and I wondered how much I was really gonna like this guy.  This week I thought he was kinda insightful and funny.  So I'm waiting for more before I formulate my opinion.

Here are the naysayers:

In the minority of one again ... I hated Norm's hosting style.  Just trying too hard to be funny, and Epic Failing.  I don't remember him being nearly so obnoxious the time or two that he guest hosted EP, but this was almost insufferable.

I love Norm's voice but strongly disliked his sense of humor on this one.  I agree, he was trying too hard.

No, sorry Norm, no fried plantains for me (what are they?) I may just have to 'LA LA LA' through the intro and push through to the stories.

Intros and outro needs work. DI don't think it blended with the story.

Perhaps I should try the drabblecast as well, to get some sense of his style or to become immune.

I'm sure it has been said before, but I never like the sound effects in the intros, or the lame humor. I understand that Norm means well, and his voice is expressive and excellently recorded. Its just the staginess that is an abrupt change. I don't mind having another host. But such an extreme style change in the intros is offputting.

[Swamp]

So here's my take:

When people started saying negative things about Norm, I was thinking, "What do you mean you don't like Norm as co-host?  We know his style from Drabblecast.  What did you expect?  This is Norm."  Then I realized that not everyone that listens to Escape Pod listens to the Drabblecast.  There really are two different crowds.  Just because I intermingle, doesn't mean everyone else does.

When the whole co-host idea came up, I was a little leary of it.  But then most recently when Steve announced that Norm would be the official co-host, eliminating the possibity of a rotating cast, I felt better.  (The rotating cast works for PC because that is how they started out.)

So I am very pleased that Norm is on board and think he will settle in just fine.  The switchup of the episodes may have caused Norm to come on a bit too strong for those not familiar with him, but won't matter in a few months.

I also realized that this forum can be a tough room sometimes.  I think that can be both good and bad.  Then again, I think about the Drabblecast and its loyal audience (including me).  What if Steve Eley went on the Drabblecast as co-host?  How would he be received?  I think that would be a very tough room as well.

[Jason M]

I don't listen to Drabblecast.  I personally don't like Norm's style.

I don't have a problem with him co-hosting on occasion, but it would be enough for me to give up on Escapepod.

[Russell Nash]

I remember when Norm came into the forums talking about starting a podcast.  He got ripped up one side and down the other by some of our writers.  Norm took it in and upped his game.  He did the same once he launched the Drabblecast.  I think if we give him honest, constructive criticism, he'll find what works here too.  He's never going to be Steve, nobody could be, but I'm confident he'll be a good EP host.

[BethPeters]

I don't listen to Drabblecast.  I personally don't like Norm's style.

I don't have a problem with him co-hosting on occasion, but it would be enough for me to give up on Escapepod.

Yes, I second Zathras.  I have no problem at all with Norm hosting on occasion.

However, I have to say that if he does, it will also be enough for me to give up on Escapepod entirely forever. No problem, but nice knowing everyone.  Laterz.  

Joking aside, I don't see how this is a debate.  I can see how non-Drabblecast listeners might not be used to Norm, but most will get used to him if they don't become Drabblecast subscribers eventually (Drabblecast is Escapepod quality or better but shorter stories with the best production you've ever heard.)
Otherwise, the same folks here will yammer about ANY new voice that speaks for 2 minutes before and after, just for lack of better things to do.  If you are so picky on your FREE weekly science fiction that  a new occasional co-host for a few minutes will turn you off and make you quit altogether, then good luck and good riddance.  Hey, start you're own show if you want, with better SF stories than Escapepod; be more interesting than Norm yourself, give it a go.  Dare ya.  

I know the Escape Artists execs are trying to find solid ground right now, and I for one think that the stories (aside from this week) have been extremely strong for a while now, and that Norm mixed with Al and Steve and others will continue to make the show more entertaining.  I've listened to EP for a long time.  The show is doing great, as is Norm.

[eytanz]

Joking aside, I don't see how this is a debate.  I can see how non-Drabblecast listeners might not be used to Norm, but most will get used to him if they don't become Drabblecast subscribers eventually (Drabblecast is Escapepod quality or better but shorter stories with the best production you've ever heard.)
Otherwise, the same folks here will yammer about ANY new voice that speaks for 2 minutes before and after, just for lack of better things to do.  If you are so picky on your FREE weekly science fiction that  a new occasional co-host for a few minutes will turn you off and make you quit altogether, then good luck and good riddance.  Hey, start you're own show if you want, with better SF stories than Escapepod; be more interesting than Norm yourself, give it a go.  Dare ya.  

Beth, while I understand what you're saying, I think you should think about your own tone here. You may be a long-time EP listener and fan, and we all appreciate it, but this forum has been around for a long time, and it has its own culture, which has been actively develoed and encouraged by the EA authorities (esp., in early days, Steve). And part of this culture is - everything is a debate. We keep the tone civil, but everyone here is welcome to give their opinions on any aspect of the podcast. This has been, as I said, welcomed by the people running the podcast. There are rules to this - one of them, as I said, is we keep the tone civil, and the other is that EA doesn't have to do something just because the forum wants it to. Norm, Ben, and Steve, make their own decisions, but I haven't heard a single one of them telling people to stop giving feedback on Norm as host - positive or negative. Another one of the rules is that we give feedback on the podcasts, not on other forum posters. I know your intentions are good, but I think you'll find that your own posts so far as going to be less appreciated by the people you are defending, than the posts of the people who are criticising them.

As for my own opinion - I love Drabblecast, and I love Norm on Drabblecast. I'm not so sure I love Norm-on-Drabblecast-on-Escapepod. But I agree with Russell - these things take time, and they happen naturally. I have every faith in Norm that he will end up with a variation of his hosting style that works for EP, and another one on Drabblecast. It's not like his Drabblecast hosting style hasn't evolved over the years. So my point is - I'm in the "not sure it's 100% working now, but am more than willing to give it time" camp.

[Praxis]

I'm with Beth Peters (athough of course I do not condone any lapses in EP tone and will be sending some sort of dragon her way to scare into not doing that again): The stories that we can listen to (and the vast majority of people do this for free) on Escape Pod, Podcastle and Pseudopod *are* the point of the podcast.

And as much as I can see that if someone found an intro grating or over the top or just not the same style they might not be happy about it, I can't see a lot of people cutting out listening to any of the podcast.

But, y'know, if someone (even long term listeners to the stories) feels that the intro is too much, I'm sure there is some sort of alternative, high quality, weekly, freely available, SF podcast featuring the best writers who have ever lived (and sometimes some of the not so best).
Possibly.......I mean, I can't think of one but...........maybe Google could help.

Personally I don't have a problem with Norm - he has huge respect for Steve and EA in general.  The show's in good hands, host-wise.

[Jason M]

Let me clarify after reading the responses to my post.

If Norm were to become the regular host for Escapepod, it would be enough for me to give it up.  I'd probably still listen, but skip the intros and outros.

[Talia]

I just don't get the objections at all, different strokes for different folks I suppose.

I would say just skipping the intros and outros doesn't mean giving up  the podcast. The point is after all the stories.

[BethPeters]

I'm sorry if my tone was harsh.  I've never posted much on forums before, didn't mean to offend anyone.  Certainly everyone should be able to voice opinions, I guess I didn't feel like I was trying to silence opinions as much as just voice my own.

[Boggled Coriander]

I like Norm.  I like the Drabblecast.  And the more eccentric and Normesque Norm makes his Drabblecast intros, the happier I'll be.

But I can sympathize with people who aren't fans of Norm as co-host of Escape Pod.  He certainly brings his own singular Normness to his intros and outros, and I can understand how others might find him to be an acquired taste, or even an un-acquirable taste. 

My taste in food runs towards the extremely pungent and the very spicy, and the occasional meal of insectoid origin.  I'll happily eat meals that I know my own parents, and much of the North American population, would find utterly gross.  And that's fine.  Personally, I can't stand the taste of cranberries or olives.  I dunno why.

If your favorite restaurant suddenly starts including pungent and spicy and insectoid ingredients in all your favorite dishes, and the change is really not to your taste, you're going to feel rather put off, and my saying "But I love Taiwanese fermented tofu!  Give it some time and you'll learn to like the taste!" isn't going to help matters any.

Personally, I didn't much care for Norm's intro/outro for "Boyfriend".  As another poster said, it sounded like he was trying too hard to be funny and was failing.  I liked the job he did for "The Kindness of Strangers".  But if his style is really and truly not to your taste, then he could be the most wonderful Norm ever and you wouldn't be satisfied. 

I've got faith that he can develop a style for Escape Pod that is distinct from the Drabblecast.  The development in his hosting style from the early days of his own podcast to the current era is pretty remarkable. 

[Kevin David Anderson]

I for one have started listening to EP again.  Change is good. 

[Jason M]

And as much as I can see that if someone found an intro grating or over the top or just not the same style they might not be happy about it, I can't see a lot of people cutting out listening to any of the podcast.

But, y'know, if someone (even long term listeners to the stories) feels that the intro is too much, I'm sure there is some sort of alternative, high quality, weekly, freely available, SF podcast featuring the best writers who have ever lived (and sometimes some of the not so best).
Possibly.......I mean, I can't think of one but...........maybe Google could help.

Actually, I'm not just an SF geek.  Having other interests, I have a backlog of podcasts to listen to.  Escapepod has already moved to the back burner.  I listen to it when I get around to it now.  I have in the past, and most certainly will in the future, dumped podcasts because of quality or style issues. 

I gladly pay for quality and rent audio books from truck stops to listen to as well as podcasts.  I have a huge selection to choose from.

I gave CP a try, and really wanted them to succeed.  I gave the Babylon Podcast a try, and wanted desperately to continue listening.  There are several poker podcasts that I have tried.  For one reason or another, they've been cut from my play list.

I did not bring this up in an episode thread.  Swamp started this thread, and so I let my feelings be known.

Z

[Bdoomed]

I've never heard the Drabblecast, never heard Norm's voice, didn't know jack about his style.
I enjoyed the intro.  I haven't heard "Boyfriend" yet, which he apparently intro-d.  I didn't have a problem with the length of the intro, and i enjoyed the humor.  It's new, it's different, but it's not bad.

[Bdoomed]

listen-ed to "Boyfriend"
comments on intro? Yes, failed humor, yes, a little strained, not a big deal.  Definitely not a deal breaker.  Ease up, Norm.
outro- more failed humor, but he knew it.
i like it.  but don't try so hard.

[BrianDeacon]

I just wanted to toss in a voice countering Jeff DeReggo's opinion about how Norm ought to be behaving.  If Norm put on the company face, I'd find it creepy and Stepfordish.  My thought is that if you're an involved enough listener to poke around on the forums, you're involved enough to forgive an honest opinion, and especially involved enough to smell a sincerity-murdering faux opinion.  The whiff of marketing just sucks the oxygen right out of it for me.

Furthermore, I didn't hear anything at all in the podcast itself that was even bait to take issue with.

[fuzzygnome]

Really?  People are actually worried about Norm? 
I don't usually post in the forums but I thought I'd drop in to say how hilarious and great Norm was.  Really surprised that it's this big of a deal for some people.  He's hosted EP a few times before ya know, and it didn't cause any stir.  I've been an Escapepod and Drabblecast fan for about a year, and it's evident that Norm is a very different host than Steve so far.  Steve is transparent and deep.  Norm is witty and fun.  Those are my rough generalizations based on the personalties (not the people, don't know them really.)Yes of course  Norm is sometimes deep and Steve is often fun, but I mean in general so far.
I loved Steve's Geek dad segments. Yet I also cracked up at the Ms. Spencer howboutdemapples.com bit. I thought the Nigerian Spam-Gf was hilarious, yet I miss Steve's insight into stories.  Then again,  I thought Norm asked great questions at the end of Kindness to Strangers and had me thinking.  The Ozymandias reference was spot on, and it's an interesting point to draw from the story. Then bam, Invincible Alien Denzel Washington and I LOL. Not to mention the sudden disappearance of a long list of countries that most Americans would never notice disappeared in the first place (a gentle jab at a noted and slightly annoying feature of the story.) As far as I can tell, and he's only done a handful of shows so far, he's just being the same Norm as he always has been on Drabblecast:  smart, hilarious, dry, weird and funny as hell, which is obviously why Steve wants him to compliment the show. 

[Strawman]

http://gardenstreet.org/drabblecastarchive/Bbardles/files/Scifihigh.mp3

Face huggers in the classroom.
Norm's just tryin to survive as a transfer student at Sci Fi High

All we are saying is give peace a chance.

[TripleAught]

The host of a podcast has to enhance the experience. The show wants the audience to grow and the hosts are a big part of helping people get connected to the show.

I agree with what other people have said, Norm just needs to get a sense of what helps enhance Escape Pod. If he figures that out, he'll be good host.

Myself, I kept trying to decide if I liked his commentary on Boyfriend or not... overall I decided that just because it was different from Steve's it wasn't bad, just different.

I think he'll grow into this role.

[Ace Cook]

I joined up mainly to add my two cents. Been listening to Escape Pod for ages now, and I also recently really got into the Drabblecast. I was looking forward to Norm as a host, but so far it's been like watching a friend give a really bad speech at a wedding. Norm, chill out. You're trying to hard. I'm sure you'll find your groove. 

[alllie]

Having listened to the opening and closing, twice, I don't see what the problem was. Have they maybe been edited since the episode was first posted?

[El Barto]

This whole thread makes me LOL and smile.  EP has become so successful that the small minority of people who post comments are having a whole debate on the style of the new co-host?!?!   That has to be a good sign.

Ever since I discovered EP earlier this year I've found some of the intros/outros fascinating and others awful.  It takes me less than 5 seconds to fast-forward on my iPod so I just enjoy the ones I like and ignore the others.

One thing I have thought for a very long time (far before Norm) is that EP should strongly consider splitting up each week's podcast into three files, or perhaps give subscribers the choice between a single file (with intro/story/outro) and three separate files.  I OFTEN want to share a story with a friend as a way to get them to appreciate sci-fi stories and the intro is often funny or relevant to me but completely weird/bizarre/distracting/confusing to newbies.

Lastly, what is the genre of the Drabblecast?   I haven't tried it yet.   If it is not sci-fi, are there other good sci-fi story podcasts out there other than EP?   

[DKT]

Lastly, what is the genre of the Drabblecast?   I haven't tried it yet.   If it is not sci-fi, are there other good sci-fi story podcasts out there other than EP?   

The genre is weird 

They have all kinds of stuff from SF/F/H. They also have some that are more comical than anything else. Most of the episodes are on the shorter side. You should give it a shot. (If you like EP authors, look for Tim Pratt's Annabelle's Alphabet is shockingly amazing. It gave me chills that lasted an entire day. There's also stories by Eugie Foster, Greg van Eekhout, Samanatha Henderson, and Jeremiah Tolbert, among many, many others.)

[Talia]

Lastly, what is the genre of the Drabblecast?   I haven't tried it yet.   If it is not sci-fi, are there other good sci-fi story podcasts out there other than EP?   

The genre is weird 

They have all kinds of stuff from SF/F/H. They also have some that are more comical than anything else. Most of the episodes are on the shorter side. You should give it a shot. (If you like EP authors, look for Tim Pratt's Annabelle's Alphabet is shockingly amazing. It gave me chills that lasted an entire day. There's also stories by Eugie Foster, Greg van Eekhout, Samanatha Henderson, and Jeremiah Tolbert, among many, many others.)

I would add to this look for ANYTHING by Tim Pratt! There's several of his stories on there, my personal favorite which I absolutely love to death was DC 122, the Fallen and the Muse of the Street.

[Russell Nash]

Lastly, what is the genre of the Drabblecast?   I haven't tried it yet.   If it is not sci-fi, are there other good sci-fi story podcasts out there other than EP?   

There are some threads answering this question in the podcast pedantry section.

[ol nice]

I just registered on the forum specifically to comment about Norm's hosting job so far: Don't change a thing.
It's great when Steve hosts, but Norm kind of blew my mind. Wow. Going to check out the Drabblecast right now for more...

[monkeystuff]

Norm has done fine IMO

And I'll be checking out this drabblebabble stuff

[TheOfficeTroll]

I don't mind him as an occasional host, but his style really annoys the snot out of me.  I appreciate what he's trying to do, it just rubs me the wrong way.

It's a combination of several factors for me.  His voice is a bit grating, his pacing tends to be jarring, and his humour seems to tend towards the 'this isn't funny, but if I say it you'll laugh that it's not funny.'

If he hosts on a regular basis, I will doubtless skip the vast majority of the outros and may skip the intros as well.

[emjace]

As good as the little red cherry on the very last fairy cake at the party.....

Not saying that Norm is a cherry or a fairy cake! - but the smallest little thing..the short opening and closing narratives, make a great podcast even better...as long as no one licks off the icing first...

As another forum member has stated ('ol nice');

"I just registered on the forum specifically to comment about Norm's hosting job so far: Don't change a thing.
It's great when Steve hosts, but Norm kind of blew my mind. Wow. Going to check out the Drabblecast right now for more.."

.....freaky, I did the same, as a virginal forum member - now de-budded, just to add my few meager pennies worth...

[Arion]

Lastly, what is the genre of the Drabblecast?   I haven't tried it yet.   If it is not sci-fi, are there other good sci-fi story podcasts out there other than EP?   

The podcast's tagline says it all.  "Strange stories, by strange authors, for strange listeners (such as yourself)"

Generally you can expect to find something that easily fits into either the SF or Fantasy pigenholes, but with a definite strange flavor.

Some stories, like the ever popular "Jelly Park" really defy categorization though, and are simply "strange."

[Boggled Coriander]

Most of Drabblecast's stories would feel right at home on one of the Escape Artists podcasts.  Not long ago they actually ran a story that had previously been on PseudoPod, although Norm's reading of it made for a new and different experience.  And as Arlon says, some, like "Jelly Park," are just strange.

I've only commented so far on the qualities of weirdness Norm brings to his hosting duties, but I like him quite a lot as a story reader, too.  He's up there with Steve and Alasdair in my mind as an excellent all-purpose male narrator.  True, in the early Drabblecasts whenever he tried to do a foreign accent he made me cringe in pain, but I'm happy to say it's been many, many Drabblecasts since I've had that problem.

[oddpod]

i love norm!

[Maze]

Sorry, can't agree. I think Norm's just too forced and bad sleazy jokes just aren't insight. I think Steve, Alasdair and the PC team usually hit my wavelength in spades and I associate a natural hosting style. Norm needs to be more natural and not hide in bad voices and jokes


Unless he doesn't want to, of course.  good luck.

[Talia]

They're jokes, they're not sleazy and they don't claim to be insight. Easy enough to skip the intro if you're not a fan.

[stePH]

Easy enough to skip the intro if you're not a fan.

Not necessarily, if the listener happens to be driving.  Scroll-searching on an iPod at the wheel is almost as bad as texting.

[kibitzer]

Just for kicks, and to say my $0.02 worth, I'll say it again.

Norm as host -- 2 gigantic thumbs up!!

I've never listened to Drabblecast but if your wry humour on EP is any indication, I just might!

[Strawman]

One thing I have thought for a very long time (far before Norm) is that EP should strongly consider splitting up each week's podcast into three files, or perhaps give subscribers the choice between a single file (with intro/story/outro) and three separate files.  I OFTEN want to share a story with a friend as a way to get them to appreciate sci-fi stories and the intro is often funny or relevant to me but completely weird/bizarre/distracting/confusing to newbies. 

This is a good idea. Norm has a new feature character on DC, Connor Choadsworth, who hosts "In Search of"  cryptozoological animals. I'm having to use Wave Pad to carve up and save the segments. If some folks only want the main course, let 'em have it. I often prefer just the appetizer and dessert. It's all about trying to please everyone all the time, no?

[Clutron]

NORM Rules!!!  I was so glad to hear that he would be in the host rotation.  Norm, keep up the good work.

[Bdoomed]

YAY FOR NORM!

[Maze]

  I have now listened to a few drabblecasts and really like what Norm has done with them. It does really fit together well and is really good. THe use of effects and other voices in stories is a contrast to EP (don't want it changed in either pod - just note I like both options)

Apologies for my harsh initial comments - hadn't quite dealt with the change.

good luck Norm!

BTW - to all those who said -"just skip the intro etc"
Why would I want to do that? I'm not just here for the stories - its the whole experience that makes the EA pods what they are.

[Rain]

I am one of those people for whom Escape Pod = Steve Eley and the concept of other people hosting the show didnt sit well with me, but after listening to episode #216 and #217 i am officially a Norm fan, he is very different from Steve but to he did the same job of adding something extra to the story. Looking forward to more.

[stePH]

I am one of those people for whom Escape Pod = Steve Eley and the concept of other people hosting the show didnt sit well with me, but after listening to episode #216 and #217 i am officially a Norm fan, he is very different from Steve but to he did the same job of adding something extra to the story. Looking forward to more.

Agree with the above, except still not a Norm fan.  But if he can dial it back and quit trying so hard, I might come around.

[kibitzer]

Agree with the above, except still not a Norm fan.  But if he can dial it back and quit trying so hard, I might come around.

That's the thing, dude.  He ain't trying so hard -- he's being Norm. Unlikely he'll change.

[lunastrixae]

I just want to say, I LOVE NORM! I've never heard of Drabblecast, but I'm off to subscribe to it now.

[jalan]

Always late to the party. 
Anyways, because I'm just now catching up I assume the episodes with extreme Normism have been edited or whatever by now, as I clearly missed it.  So far so good though for me though.  I love Drabblecast and Escapepod, I like seeing the gametes flow.  Er... ya

[Bdoomed]

Always late to the party. 
Anyways, because I'm just now catching up I assume the episodes with extreme Normism have been edited or whatever by now, as I clearly missed it.  So far so good though for me though.  I love Drabblecast and Escapepod, I like seeing the gametes flow.  Er... ya

no, nothing's been changed on any past episodes.  What constituted "extreme normism" in those episodes are still there, and you not noticing it means it obviously doesnt bother you

[Pinwheel]

I like Norm.  I think he's funny, and I don't get the "trying too hard" complaint. 

Plus, the anti-Norm rant in another thread -- in which a poster bloviates that Norm should be fired for not marketing his product -- was so stuffy that I reflexively joined Team Norm. 

[jrderego]

I like Norm.  I think he's funny, and I don't get the "trying too hard" complaint. 

Plus, the anti-Norm rant in another thread -- in which a poster bloviates that Norm should be fired for not marketing his product -- was so stuffy that I reflexively joined Team Norm. 

That was me, and it was my product... you know, the stories that you download from here, for free... that's the product. And I don't bloviate. I have a vested interest in the product being presented on a professional manner.

But, hey, whatever.

I am the author, you are the audience, I outrank you.

[eytanz]

That was me, and it was my product... you know, the stories that you download from here, for free... that's the product. And I don't bloviate. I have a vested interest in the product being presented on a professional manner.

You write all of the stories, now? I'm impressed.

[jrderego]

That was me, and it was my product... you know, the stories that you download from here, for free... that's the product. And I don't bloviate. I have a vested interest in the product being presented on a professional manner.

You write all of the stories, now? I'm impressed.

Yes, let's nit pick. That's a great way to handle this. In my post, originally, I discussed my stories being handled this way. Pinwheel references that post.

[Alasdair5000]

Before this goes further, four points to consider:

-Norm made a mistake and copped to it.

-That mistake hasn't been repeated.

-Perspectives are like hideous ties.  Chances are, everyone has a different one.  We don't have to agree with anyone else's, but we do have to respect the fact they have them.
 
-This is water under the bridge.  Let's move on now, please.

[Bdoomed]

I am the author, you are the audience, I outrank you.

this made me chuckle

[Swamp]

I am the author, you are the audience, I outrank you.

this made me chuckle

Well, I was a little slower.  Once it was pointed out to me that it was a movie quote, I recognized it from The Producers.  I'm a little slow today.  I think it's from all the parent tax earnings from my kids' candy collections.

[Pinwheel]

I like Norm.  I think he's funny, and I don't get the "trying too hard" complaint. 

Plus, the anti-Norm rant in another thread -- in which a poster bloviates that Norm should be fired for not marketing his product -- was so stuffy that I reflexively joined Team Norm. 

That was me, and it was my product... you know, the stories that you download from here, for free... that's the product. And I don't bloviate. I have a vested interest in the product being presented on a professional manner.

But, hey, whatever.



I am the author, you are the audience, I outrank you.

Posts that are condescending, defensive (outrank me?  seriously?), humorless, and belittling -- read like bloviating to me.   As an author, you have a vested interest in looking into that -- it'll help your writing.

I love these podcasts -- enough that I'm reading these forums, despite deciding years ago that message boards were futile.  And I understand that there are eggshells everywhere, with authors, readers, and staff all running their mouths.  But you need to chill.  (The "But, hey, whatever" just isn't convincing.)

[eytanz]

Before this goes further, four points to consider:

-Norm made a mistake and copped to it.

-That mistake hasn't been repeated.

-Perspectives are like hideous ties.  Chances are, everyone has a different one.  We don't have to agree with anyone else's, but we do have to respect the fact they have them.
 
-This is water under the bridge.  Let's move on now, please.

Fair enough. For what it's worth, I agreed with jrderego's actual criticism of Norm in his original post, though I thought he was overreacting. But I would like to think that anyone who is willing to aggressively point out how other people's mistakes affect their perception of them in public, should be willing to have the same light turned upon them. Taking into account that the tone jrderego takes while responding to hosts and audience members on the forum may affect  how other audience members perceive him and his stories.

[Bdoomed]

Let's move on now, please.

[Atras]

Hey guys, I haven't read the whole thread (started to look WAY too personal-attack-y) but this week, having Steve back really made me want to say something.  I'm pretty much not a fan of Norm's hosting.  I think his humor is just not my style, there's really nothing I can do about that, and his voice is a little annoying, but there is nothing he can do about that.  I appreciate him talking the reigns for Steve, but having the original back, really made me miss him.  Thanks Norm, even if you're not my favorite.

[Swamp]

I just wanted to point out that Steve never went anywhere. 

[Steve Eley]
...And no, this doesn't mean I'm vanishing.  I like reading things out loud too much, and, well, I like you guys too much to just go away.  That sounds cheesy, but it's true.

[internalogic]

Steve is great.  There's a kind of science-fiction appropriate quality to his voice.  Crisp, enthusiastic, frank, sincere, always seeming to be discovering things with interest for the first time. 

But Norm kicks ass too.

They're two different people.  But they're both really good hosts who do not drop the ball (or the platter if you are from my 'Hate the 'Drop the Ball' Metaphor' support group).  Anyway, they don't. 

If hearing someone else introduce Escape Pod didn't feel jarring, then we'd have to conclude that B.F. Skinner wasted many good decades of his life. 

But if Steve needs a bit of relief time so that he can keep bringing us Steve, then this works for me.

[eytanz]

If hearing someone else introduce Escape Pod didn't feel jarring, then we'd have to conclude that B.F. Skinner wasted many good decades of his life. 

Of course he didn't. The fact that radical behaviorism is bunk doesn't mean that it wasn't important, in that it pushed people to find better approaches.

[kibitzer]

Can we kill or lock this thread please?

[stePH]

Can we kill or lock this thread please?

FASCIST!  Help, I'm being repressed! 

[Bdoomed]

Can we kill or lock this thread please?

why?
i mean yeah it's getting kinda redundant here, but... i dunno...

[Talia]

Can we kill or lock this thread please?

why?
i mean yeah it's getting kinda redundant here, but... i dunno...

Because the subject has been addressed in the most recent EP outro, and really nothing further needs to be said about it, I think. Its getting kind of weird and uncomfortable.

[Swamp]

I think you're right.  This thread has served it's purpose and not much is gained by its going on and on.  As a closing thought, I'll end it with the comments from Steve Eley in the aforementioned outro of EP224:

There’s been a fair amount of talk on the forums lately about the hosting changes at Escape Pod, and whither Steve, and voices raised for and against Norm Sherman.  I’m kind of torn on commenting on it at all since I fell like my opinion shouldn’t automatically carry more weight that yours or anyone else’s, but at the same time, we don’t want to give the impression that nobody’s listening.

First of all, I’m not disappearing.  I am scaling back, that’s obvious; and there are reasons on my end why that’s a good thing.  But if I wanted to stop, I’d just stop, and I wouldn’t be saying this right now. 

As far as Norm goes, I like his intros.  I think he’s great.  I laughed out loud about the substitute teacher bit.  Although if there are any naked photos of me online, I have no official comment, and if you go searching for them, don’t tell me.

Any change in personalities in a show or publication is going to have some transition, some adjustment.  The reason we asked Norm to fill this role is because he has personality.  I decided consciously I’d much prefer someone who brings a different style than to risk our presentation having no style.  Framing matters. And yet, you can love Norm or hate him.  I can’t tell you you should feel any differently than you do, but, in the big picture, we’re all here for the stories.  Certainly, I’m here for the stories.  And no matter who’s talking at you in the front or back, a good story is what we really care about brining you.