Author Topic: EP176: How The World Became Quiet: A Post-Human Creation Myth  (Read 29479 times)

Windup

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Reply #50 on: September 29, 2008, 12:46:10 PM

One thing that bothered me was the impliction (intended by the author or not) that it was our "humaness" that makes us environmentally destructive.  I tend to think the opposite -- we get in trouble when we try behave like we're just another species.  Because after all, it's the evolutionary ambition of every species to wipe out the competition and expand to the absolute carrying capacity of the environment.

What will save us -- if we are to be saved -- is using our intelligence to comprehend our power and grasp the implications of our actions. That implies that we accept the role as gardeners or tenders of the planet that our gifts thrust upon us.  If we decide we can't or won't do that, the Earth has cleared the slate and started over before, and there's no reason it can't happen again.

"My whole job is in the space between 'should be' and 'is.' It's a big space."


Thermonuclearpenguin

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Reply #51 on: September 30, 2008, 03:02:45 AM
My bad, I just realized that I copied the wrong text out of my word file. It was meant for the comment section of the web site.

Finding out that you still have more to learn, is the best reward of any lesson.


Hatton

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Reply #52 on: October 01, 2008, 12:24:41 PM
You can talk to yourself.

You can answer yourself.

You can even talk to trees.

It's when the trees start answering that you need to be concerned.
No, answering yourself is fine.  It's when you get into an argument with yourself and loose that you've got problems!

Normal is just a setting on the washing machine.


yicheng

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Reply #53 on: October 01, 2008, 10:32:57 PM
I, for one, liked the story and found it very imaginative.  As for the "humans are evil" slant of the story, I guess read the story title with the big emphasis on the last word: "Myth".  The setting of the story is in a post-human world, and as Churchill notes: History is written by the victors.  You honestly think that any non-human would have anything positive to say on the legacy of humankind, after an all-out war of annihilation no less?  What do Homo Sapiens say about Neanderthals?  the Americans say about the Iroquois? or the Romans say about Carthage?



goatkeeper

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Reply #54 on: October 04, 2008, 11:34:39 PM
I hate to critisize a story where crab men war with seal men, I really do, but...

ugh, nevermind.  I just can't bring myself to do it. 



Roney

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Reply #55 on: October 10, 2008, 11:32:32 PM
Whatever Rachel's intentions when writing it, though, I felt that humanities' wickedness in its mistreatment of the world was being drubbed into me, and it did adversely affect my enjoyment of the story.

I'm feeling lucky that I read Last And First Men a couple of months ago and have had a bit of schooling in this style of SF with the long historical perspective.  Because I didn't get that impression at all.

If you told the history of the last 2,000 years to a citizen of the Roman empire it would be easy for them to see it as a fable of humanity's destructiveness when unmoderated by the Pax Romana.  On a 100 year timescale, does it look proportionate for Europe to have wasted millions of lives in a spat over the killing of Franz Ferdinand?

In a story that counts time by apocalypses, it seems almost inevitable that there will be an emphasis on the perceived destructiveness of the creatures who trigger each one.  The narrator is much less likely to linger on the vast majority of decent, law-abiding humans and Creature-Men when history is shaped by the few who give us all a bad name.  And viewed from the perspective of "not being there at the time", war always sounds petty, self-destructive or just plain nuts.  This story would have rung false if it had described tens of thousands of years of peaceful progress or had made the violent interludes sound justifiable.

I thought this story was a lot of fun, and every time it seemed to be getting predictable it came up with something I didn't predict.



Raving_Lunatic

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Reply #56 on: October 25, 2008, 12:00:32 PM
I have to say that the brilliance of this story inspired me to buy a copy of Last and First Men. I cannot believe I have been a Sci-fi fan without reading it- fantastic and really obvious that the author thinks a lot about philosophy as well as telling an interesting story. This story, again I loved it. Superb storytelling, beautiful landscape, and a world that gripped the imagination and refused to let go. And it was read by Frank Key, who seems to do all the stories I love (How Lonesome A life is a good example.)



McToad

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Reply #57 on: November 13, 2008, 04:14:23 AM
Read like a bad fictionalization of a good Rush song.  I did not enjoy this one on any level.

McToad

Nothing is impossible,
  but few things are probable.


Unblinking

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I, for one, liked the story and found it very imaginative.  As for the "humans are evil" slant of the story, I guess read the story title with the big emphasis on the last word: "Myth".  The setting of the story is in a post-human world, and as Churchill notes: History is written by the victors.  You honestly think that any non-human would have anything positive to say on the legacy of humankind, after an all-out war of annihilation no less?  What do Homo Sapiens say about Neanderthals?  the Americans say about the Iroquois? or the Romans say about Carthage?

I've got nothing against the Iroquois.  Just sayin.

Anyhoo, I liked the idea of this story, the multiple apocalypses, the bizarre permutations in between.  Most of all I liked the contracts signed on wood-pulp paper with human blood for ink--neat idea.

But I wish there had been some characters, any characters in the story.  And, though Rachel didn't intend it, it was hard not to see it as a bludgeoning political message.  By itself it's not so bad, but pretty much since the word "green" stopped meaning a pigment, I tend to dislike any story that pushes an environmentalism message.  I don't even disagree with most environmental messages, and I'm trying to change my habits to be more environmentally friendly, but I still get sick of hearing about it.




Unblinking

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Well, you've all guessed my carefully kept secret.

Excuse me -- my roots are getting dry.

Well, on the bright side, whenever you interview for a new job, and they ask that time-old inane interview question "If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?" you have an immediate answer for it.   ;D