Author Topic: PC079: Publishing stories by Editorial staff  (Read 5583 times)

Swamp

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on: December 08, 2009, 01:39:49 AM
Heradel: This thread was split from http://forum.escapeartists.net/index.php?topic=3156

I tend to raise an eyebrow when an editor publishes his/her own work in his/her own magazine, but this one was definitely of good quality (even though I missed something along the way).

I get where you're coming from on the raised eyebrow, but when the result is a great story like this one, I don't mind so much.  I'll definately take two Ann Leckie stories a year.  (and throw in a little Monstrous Embrace from Ms. Swirsky while your at it).

Like has been said, I enjoy the interaction of the gods and mortals, and the world at large; but beyond this, the charachters in this story feel very real.  I cared about them (the gods too).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 10:05:38 PM by Heradel »

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Anarkey

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Reply #1 on: December 16, 2009, 01:34:21 PM
I tend to raise an eyebrow when an editor publishes his/her own work in his/her own magazine, but this one was definitely of good quality (even though I missed something along the way).

Your suspicion is not misplaced as a general sort of assesment, but for the record, Ann is not editor of PodCastle.  She slushes, which is different.  I slush for EP, so I know the limits of Ann's editorial authority.  I can't buy or run stories.  All I can do is reject or pass up.  Ann can make suggestions, and Rachel may sometimes consult her about stories, but that's it.

So Ann doesn't make purchasing choices (well...not usually.  And certainly not in this case.)  Rachel is editor, and makes the choices about what to run.  Ann didn't even sub her stories.  Rachel just knew of them, and asked Ann if she could run them.  Rachel does a considerable amount of soliciting...more than the other two casts, I think.   

Ann expressed a considerable degree of hesitancy over this (and I share this as a personal friend of Ann's, though it's not really your business), for reasons you've just cited.  I think Rachel probably told her that was a silly concern, because these are awesome stories, and since Ann isn't editor, it's not like she chose them.  As a friend, I told her it was a silly concern, because slushing isn't editing and hello, awesome stories.  I wasn't present for the conversation between Rachel and Ann, so all I know is what you know, that Rachel used enough persuasiveness to get the stories out of Ann, and I know this because -- well -- there they are, right?

FWIW, your post probably means that the next time Rachel asks Ann for a story Ann will say no, because that shadow of inappropriateness, while not merited, is something that worried her too.

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Swamp

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Reply #2 on: December 16, 2009, 03:46:41 PM
I tend to raise an eyebrow when an editor publishes his/her own work in his/her own magazine, but this one was definitely of good quality (even though I missed something along the way).

FWIW, your post probably means that the next time Rachel asks Ann for a story Ann will say no, because that shadow of inappropriateness, while not merited, is something that worried her too.

Does that mean I need to start a Run More Ann Leckie Stories petition?  Cuz I'll do it, just let me know.

I mean, think of it.  The Marsh Gods / Nalendar universe could become to PodCastle what the Union Dues has been for Escape Pod.  I would love that!
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 04:13:07 PM by Swamp »

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Heradel

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Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 04:44:42 PM
[...]Ann expressed a considerable degree of hesitancy over this (and I share this as a personal friend of Ann's, though it's not really your business), for reasons you've just cited.  I think Rachel probably told her that was a silly concern, because these are awesome stories, and since Ann isn't editor, it's not like she chose them.  As a friend, I told her it was a silly concern, because slushing isn't editing and hello, awesome stories.  I wasn't present for the conversation between Rachel and Ann, so all I know is what you know, that Rachel used enough persuasiveness to get the stories out of Ann, and I know this because -- well -- there they are, right?

FWIW, your post probably means that the next time Rachel asks Ann for a story Ann will say no, because that shadow of inappropriateness, while not merited, is something that worried her too.

Also, for what it's worth, Steve has run a couple of his own stories over the years, so I don't think Ann being in slush should stop stories from being run. It would be a loss.

I Twitter. I also occasionally blog on the Escape Pod blog, which if you're here you shouldn't have much trouble finding.


Unblinking

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Reply #4 on: December 16, 2009, 08:19:41 PM
Quote
Ann is not editor of PodCastle.  She slushes, which is different.

I thought she was Associate Editor?

Quote
(and I share this as a personal friend of Ann's, though it's not really your business)

If you have information that is none of my business, than why are you posting it on a public forum?

Quote
FWIW, your post probably means that the next time Rachel asks Ann for a story Ann will say no, because that shadow of inappropriateness, while not merited, is something that worried her too.

I would certainly hope that that wouldn't be the response from a lone person's comment, (one who generally liked the story, I might add).  In any case, I'm not sure what purpose this comment is supposed to achieve, other than making me feel bad.  Which it did.  Thanks for that.  It sounds like you believe that my comment will damage the magazine itself, in which case I encourage you (as the moderator) to delete the relevant comments.  I can do it myself if you like, but all the replies in response to me would still be there, so it wouldn't do much good.  This sort of thing is exactly why I posted the question in metachat a while back to ask what sort of criticisms were over the line (which I seem to have crossed here).

Whether the comment is merited is a matter of opinion I think, and in this case I'm in the minority, which is fine (it wouldn't be the first and it won't be the last).  I like Ann's stories, and I think they would've made it into the magazine even if she weren't a staff member.  But at the same time, I do think it's worth discussing (though probably in a more general topic in the General topics forum instead of in story comments). 

For what it's worth, I am a slush reader for Flash Fiction Online, which takes submissions from its slush readers.  In the case of FFO, the submissions have the names stripped off before going to the other readers, and I see the other staff members comments, positive or negative.  Even when the submissions are anonymous, I've heard comments from the outside that this is a questionable practice:  "How do we readers really know that they're judged anonymously, they clearly have an unfair advantage".  From the inside, I know that they are completely anonymous, but the readers who made that comment weren't so sure.  When Fantasy Magazine announced that they were looking for slush readers, they explicitly said that anyone who took the job would be unable to submit stories.

Podcastle is different, especially because it is a reprint market.  Another publication has already seen fit to publish Marsh Gods, for instance, so it's clearly not just internal back-patting.

In any case, I think the time has come for me to shut my mouth.  I'll still be listening, but I shall try to keep my comments to myself.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 09:24:27 PM by Unblinking »



Talia

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Reply #5 on: December 16, 2009, 08:40:24 PM
FWIW, I'm pretty sure Anarkey wasn't out to make you feel bad, just to say Ann was all too aware of the issue...



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Reply #6 on: December 16, 2009, 08:56:51 PM
Unblinking, chill. And don't misunderstand what Anarkey is saying above.

Quote
Ann is not editor of PodCastle.  She slushes, which is different.

I thought she was Associate Editor?

Yeah, I can see why this would be confusing. In this case, though, associate editor = slush reader. It also sometimes = other things, but the bottom line is that generally, Ann doesn't buy the stories. Rachel does.

Quote
(and I share this as a personal friend of Ann's, though it's not really your business)

If you have information that is none of my business, than why are you posting it on a public forum?


Because Anna (Edit: Anarkey) is also an associate editor. And she's Ann's friend. And she, like I, and I think, like you, would very much prefer to see Ann's stories here than not see them.

I would certainly hope that that wouldn't be the response from a lone person's comment, (one who generally liked the story, I might add).  In any case, I'm not sure what purpose this comment is supposed to achieve, other than making me feel bad.  Which it did.  Thanks for that.  It sounds like you believe that my comment will damage the magazine itself, in which case I encourage you (as the moderator) to delete the relevant comments. 

...snip...

In any case, I think the time has come for me to shut my mouth.  I'll still be listening, but I shall try to keep my comments to myself.


Well, as I think you know, I believe that'd be a shame. We truly do appreciate your posts here. And I won't be deleting any comments.

In this particular case, though, by bringing up "that maybe there's something weird about Podcastle running a story that an associate editor/slush reader submitted, but I don't care because the story's good" there's still that insinuation that maybe there's something weird. I know you haven't had a chance to listen to EP yet, but as Heradel pointed out, Steve's run two of his own stories. (I personally hope we hear more from him.) Rachel chose not to run any of her stories here at Podcastle at the beginning. We haven't heard any more of Al's stories at PP. Make of all that what you will. Personally, I plan on subbing like hell to PP and EP, but I won't be subbing any stories to PC anytime soon. Maybe there's an interesting discussion to be had about all of this, but I think you're right that it probably could've gone somewhere else, like Metachat.

I feel like I should also point out that, with the exception of the authors, these podcasts are very much a labor of love for everyone else invovled, including the editorial staff and the narrators and the hosts and the sound editors. Many, many, many hours are invested into these podcasts for just about nothing in a few cases, and for exactly nothing in other cases. We've lost narrators because commenters here have been harsh. We've lost editorial staff. I don't know of any authors - I wouldn't be surprised if there were some we lost (and by we, I'm talking about Escape Artists in general) - but hey, authors get paid.

And no, none of this is here to make you feel bad. And none of it is meant to suggest you stop posting. Knowing Anarkey, I'm sure that's not her intention. But like I said, I personally would be bummed if Ann Leckie didn't feel comfortable subbing here because of an offhand comment or two made questioning the ethics of it. I think you would too.

Hope to see more of your comments soon.

--Dave
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 09:25:16 PM by DKT »



Unblinking

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Reply #7 on: December 16, 2009, 09:36:07 PM
And no, none of this is here to make you feel bad. And none of it is meant to suggest you stop posting. Knowing Anarkey, I'm sure that's not her intention. But like I said, I personally would be bummed if Ann Leckie didn't feel comfortable subbing here because of an offhand comment or two made questioning the ethics of it. I think you would too.

I would also be bummed.  I regret the original comment, and my response to Anarkey was even worse.  I apologize.

I also feel bad for clogging up the comments thread with this.  I don't think I have anything else to add, but if anyone else does, perhaps they could say it in metachat instead?



Anarkey

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Reply #8 on: December 17, 2009, 09:48:01 PM
I would also be bummed.  I regret the original comment, and my response to Anarkey was even worse.  I apologize.

I respect someone who can whip out an unstinting apology.  Hard thing to do.  Thanks, Unblinking. 


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