Union Dues may be coming to television!

[Swamp]

Get a solid understanding of real life unions and how they work. Good, bad, ugly, etc.

Yeah, like that union guy at the plant...and there is always at least one...who never goes out of his way to get any of his work done, and will never ever work one minute past shift or during break, even if you're at a crucial part of a project, all the time quoting union regualtions.  You know what I mean, the guy who works the system, and gives other hard-working union members a bad name.

Applying those characteristics into a super in the UD universe would be interesting.

Actually, I think the best use of Union Dues as an analogy to real life unions was "Iron Bars and the Glass Jaw", though not in the way I mention above.

[Zorag]

You know how NCIS does the black and white scenes when they come back from break as a tease for later?

Do something similar to that, but do it as a comic book panel.  You don't have to do it the same way, but it is a cool tool, IMO.

[jrderego]

The biggest problem i can see with this would be the story. Shows like lost and Heroes were great the first season but their lack of a planned end created a meandering plot that is hard to follow. If this is a show like heroes or lost and not CSI or Friends it needs to be a set number of shows with a storyline that is followed.
Tell me what you think

There's an ending, don't worry.

[Zorag]

If any of the Escapepod UD stories are used, I hope it's Off White Lies.

[jrderego]

If any of the Escapepod UD stories are used, I hope it's Off White Lies.

All of the original stories have been treated for adaptation in one way or another so far.

[deflective]

Get a solid understanding of real life unions and how they work. Good, bad, ugly, etc.

i disagree, the 'union' in union dues is pretty much a euphemism.  real life unions have secondary relevance at best.

The biggest problem i can see with this would be the story.

of course the story is a big part of any show but that isn't the biggest problem facing union dues tv.

tv's sf/f programming has exploded over the last decade but there hasn't been a real attempt to create a serious live action costumed superhero show.  some abortive comedy efforts that lasted one season (the tick & no heroics) but i can't think of anything serious recently.  smallville might have got costumed at some point but it eased you into it, it didn't start that way.

i assume that tv execs still see costumes, particularly masks, as silly and hard to play serious onscreen (i'd welcome correction if that's wrong).  the recent success of masked heroes on the big screen might create an opening though.

[Unblinking]

Lots of good comments, especially about respecting the audience by allowing longer plot arcs than a single episode.

My two cents:  take a lesson from Heroes Season 1, back when it was amazing and not just another heap of Hollywood-endorsed turds.  Real emotions, real motivations, some characters with ambiguous intentions (like horn-rimmed glasses).  In particular I loved Hiro for his naive enthusiasm and Sylar for his mystery and malice.  And then take lessons from the terrible seasons 2 and 3 (which is where I finally gave up).  When you take that time to set up a character don't have them pull a 180 without cause.  Do your homework (solar eclipses are not a global event and don't happen in the same place very frequently).  Find good actors (I'm looking at you, Kristen Bell, and whoever played the speedy girl for lowering standards).  When a character dies, let them STAY dead (at least most of the time).  Colorful costumes are hard for anyone to take seriously, it could be like Heroes with no costumes, or like the newer X-Men movies where most of the costumes are less flashy and seem more serviceable--no spandex! 

[Kaa]

People keep harping on the "no costumes" thing.

But...isn't that kind of part of the POINT of Union Dues? The characters don't necessarily like the costumes, either. They're being forced to wear them to conform to some comic book artist's conception of them and not who they really are. It's either wear the costume and be a good boy/girl, or learn to like the cold. It all comes down to contracts and sponsorship deals.  (I seem to recall that this led to one of the funniest moments in Mystery Men, when Captain Amazing's agent/manager had literally sold AD SPACE on his costume to Pepsi and Pennzoil and such.)

Done with THAT in mind, I think the colorful spandex costumes could work on TV. It could be a point of contention just like it is in the stories. Some characters could LIKE them, others hate them. Others (like Johnny Toruko(?)) wear them as a way of hiding who they really are. Etc.

[jrderego]

People keep harping on the "no costumes" thing.

But...isn't that kind of part of the POINT of Union Dues? The characters don't necessarily like the costumes, either. They're being forced to wear them to conform to some comic book artist's conception of them and not who they really are. It's either wear the costume and be a good boy/girl, or learn to like the cold. It all comes down to contracts and sponsorship deals.  (I seem to recall that this led to one of the funniest moments in Mystery Men, when Captain Amazing's agent/manager had literally sold AD SPACE on his costume to Pepsi and Pennzoil and such.)

Done with THAT in mind, I think the colorful spandex costumes could work on TV. It could be a point of contention just like it is in the stories. Some characters could LIKE them, others hate them. Others (like Johnny Toruko(?)) wear them as a way of hiding who they really are. Etc.

Costumes are integral. If the Union Dues stories have done anything it's imparted that the person beneath the costume is viewed as much less important than the costume. They are, by design, comic book characters who interact with the real world. Without costumes it wouldn't be Union Dues.

[deflective]

i, for one, never suggested that the costumes should be dropped.  in fact i suggested going with bright spandex instead of the muted colours hollywood has adopted.

when selling the show it helps to be prepared for the objections you will face.  union dues' selling strength & weakness is tied to the costumes, there's nothing else like it on air but there's a reason for that.  talking about objections and answering them is one of the points of this thread.

i believe the strategy should be to mention big screen costume success (people have become used to costumed drama) cite the wrestler as an example of spandex having a role in critical success (though make the point that union dues is in no way the wrestler for the small screen) and have some killer concept art.

[Zorag]

How are you going to handle all the powers?  I don't need an answer, but this is very important.  The fact that there are a set number of powers helps. 

[Listener]

Have a set arc for the characters.  But then know when to let them go into the background.  You don't have to kill or get rid of them, but you can move onto other people, and tell that story.  

That's all well and good, but TV showrunners and the channels they run on are notorious for giving "notes" that end up changing things in unexpected directions that the creators weren't quite planning to go. It's the give and take of the business.

[NoraReed]

This is a stupid, superficial point, but one of the major things that has irritated me about Heroes in the later seasons is the fact that it seemed like they were constantly adding new hot blonde chicks onto the show that were all attractive in the same boring way. It seemed like the point where I gave up on the series (somewhere in season 3), half the female cast was super hot blonde chicks, which just felt... silly to me.

The other part that bothered me was the fact that it didn't seem like the show was ever *going* anywhere with any particular plan. I've done NaNoWriMo enough times to know what it looks like when writers are winging it, and after the first season Heroes always had that general feel to it, both to the detriment of all of the characters and to any semblance of plot.

To Union Dues: The sort of "regulated monopoly" feel that the Union has is one that I find really interesting, and the obvious conflict with the mercenary police force is something I find fascinating. The arc of this season of Dollhouse, which is related to the take down of a powerful organization with tendrils in government, academia, etc has a dark feel to it that I could definitely see Union Dues taking on, though I see a much grittier world in the Union Dues story. (Since Dollhouse has been canceled, it might not be the best thing to be taking lessons from, but I still thought that the world-feel of it's current story arch is really interesting.)

The part of Union Dues that I find really interesting-- and different from most superhero stories-- is how helpless all of the heroes are, individually, against the Union itself. Between the imprinting and the general power-- and governmental sway-- that the Union holds, you get the idea that the heroes have a lot of the same problems with modern society that the rest of us do. Like us, they're cogs in a machine that's being controlled by people we'll never have a chance to influencing; because of the regulations regarding their powers they really have even less agency than we do.

Also: Holy shit this is awesome.

[Bdoomed]

I'm glad it'll have an ending.

Now, the following opinion is not the opinion of a moderator, rather just the opinion of a person.  So feel free to ignore it.
I feel like telling Sir DeRego what to do with his story is pretty damn dumb, after all he's already brought us multiple awesome stories that are very well written and intelligent.  I feel most of what is said here he either A. already knows B. already knows or C. isn't the direction his stories go so do not pertain to him.  I mean I can already see that Union Dues is very much unlike Heroes and the like.  It has its own personality, and the show, if made, will have a similar if not identical personality.

anyway, continue with the ideas.  I guess it's better to put them out there and have them ignored or merely noted than to not have them there at all.  After all, a few of them probably help.

[eytanz]

I'm glad it'll have an ending.

Now, the following opinion is not the opinion of a moderator, rather just the opinion of a person.  So feel free to ignore it.
I feel like telling Sir DeRego what to do with his story is pretty damn dumb, after all he's already brought us multiple awesome stories that are very well written and intelligent.  I feel most of what is said here he either A. already knows B. already knows or C. isn't the direction his stories go so do not pertain to him.  I mean I can already see that Union Dues is very much unlike Heroes and the like.  It has its own personality, and the show, if made, will have a similar if not identical personality.

But, um, he (and Doug) specifically asked.

[deflective]

aye, you're missing the primary purpose of this thread: showing that an established fan base exists that's engaged with the union dues universe.  from this perspective there are no bad posts, more the better.  if they could back up their pitch by saying that there were thousands of posts in response to the posibility of a tv series then it helps their case.

i understand where you're coming from, it's naive to think that a writer needs pointers about how to handle episode story arcs & seasonal story arcs, but it's just as naive to think that it's your place to play white knight to other people's ego.  your post implies that you have a greater trust and appreciation of union dues than the people making suggestions and that simply isn't the case. (btw, this rant isn't really targeted at you.  these kind of posts show up all over the internet)

specific suggestions are probably more useful than general 'write a good story' comments.  at least these create a slushpile of ideas that could be used if needed.  i'm a fan of the start of episode recaps being union-sanctioned comic montages, how cool would it be to actually see this idea implemented?

[jrderego]

Please! Keep the conversation going! I am pasting comments into a google wave that Doug and I use to communicate. This helps us refine the vision in conversation! Talk about costumes, endings, story elements, arcs and plots, actors you think fit certain parts, etc... All of that is more than welcome, it's solicited! Keep it coming!

I, for example, hear this song and immediately think "Union Dues Theme Song".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in5VExTM4eA

[Zorag]

Any chance of getting a promotional comic released?  Something that explains the basic structure?  Or maybe do the Union Sanctioned Recap as a web comic?

Actors:  any SciFi names.  Personally, I beg you to find a way to get Walter Koenig to play one of the Luminaries.  I'd give a huge girlish squeeeeeeeeee for that.

Getting Lou Ferrigno to play an aging super strong would rawk, too.

[Kaa]

i'm a fan of the start of episode recaps being union-sanctioned comic montages, how cool would it be to actually see this idea implemented?

Oooooooh! Now THAT does sound interesting. For the record, the just-for-DVD release of the Dead Like Me movie did this. I thought it was an odd idea for that, but for a show whose entire raison d'etre is being about comic book superheroes....

Yes.

(As an aside, why can't I use ê to make an e-circumflex? )

[Listener]

Please! Keep the conversation going! I am pasting comments into a google wave that Doug and I use to communicate. This helps us refine the vision in conversation! Talk about costumes, endings, story elements, arcs and plots, actors you think fit certain parts, etc... All of that is more than welcome, it's solicited! Keep it coming!

I, for example, hear this song and immediately think "Union Dues Theme Song".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in5VExTM4eA

It sounds a little 80s to me...

I'd think something along the lines of a remake of "I Need a Hero" -- it worked to amazing effect in Shrek 2; I bet someone could do a great cover of it.

I can almost see the opening credits as a group-save with each superhero getting long enough facetime to show the actor's name, then at the end, the adrenaline collapse... or perhaps two scenes per main superhero where the first is the save and the second is the recovery... *shrug*

[Swamp]

I, for example, hear this song and immediately think "Union Dues Theme Song".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in5VExTM4eA

It sounds a little 80s to me...

Then how about this one. 

[jrderego]

I, for example, hear this song and immediately think "Union Dues Theme Song".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in5VExTM4eA

It sounds a little 80s to me...

Then how about this one. 

Oh man that song sucks even more now than it did the first time I heard it, and the first time I heard it I thought it sucked more than anything that could ever suck. I used to skip the first five minutes of Enterprise to avoid that crapola.

[stePH]

I'm glad it'll have an ending.

Now, the following opinion is not the opinion of a moderator, rather just the opinion of a person.  So feel free to ignore it.
I feel like telling Sir DeRego what to do with his story is pretty damn dumb, after all he's already brought us multiple awesome stories that are very well written and intelligent.  I feel most of what is said here he either A. already knows B. already knows or C. isn't the direction his stories go so do not pertain to him.  I mean I can already see that Union Dues is very much unlike Heroes and the like.  It has its own personality, and the show, if made, will have a similar if not identical personality.

But, um, he (and Doug) specifically asked.

And we don't know just how involved he'll be with the show.  Head writer?  Script editor?  Creative consultant?  "Executive Producer"* ?  This advice is not necessarily for Mr. DeRego himself, but for whoever will be writing and producing the stories (and the suits making decisions about same).


* this credit is essentially "we're throwing you a bone by putting your name here", am I right?

[jrderego]

I'm glad it'll have an ending.

Now, the following opinion is not the opinion of a moderator, rather just the opinion of a person.  So feel free to ignore it.
I feel like telling Sir DeRego what to do with his story is pretty damn dumb, after all he's already brought us multiple awesome stories that are very well written and intelligent.  I feel most of what is said here he either A. already knows B. already knows or C. isn't the direction his stories go so do not pertain to him.  I mean I can already see that Union Dues is very much unlike Heroes and the like.  It has its own personality, and the show, if made, will have a similar if not identical personality.

But, um, he (and Doug) specifically asked.

And we don't know just how involved he'll be with the show.  Head writer?  Script editor?  Creative consultant?  "Executive Producer"* ?  This advice is not necessarily for Mr. DeRego himself, but for whoever will be writing and producing the stories (and the suits making decisions about same).


* this credit is essentially "we're throwing you a bone by putting your name here", am I right?

Not really. I will be receiving a "created by" credit and we have an agreement that keeps me involved in the storytelling and some other stuff if the show goes into production. I don't think I can get into that much detail about that agreement though.

[gelee]

I would love it if the emphasis stayed on the interpersonal relationships between the supers, and how they struggle to deal with normals, rather than on superheroic exploits.  Mind you, I love me some explosions, but I hope the emphasis stays mostly on these people trying to deal with what they are and what they aren't.

As to characters, I'd love to see Megaton featured, as well as the super-smart (whose name I can't remember) from EP080, Clean Up in Aisle Five.

For story arcs, it seems like there's a conflict brewing between disillusioned supers and paranoid normals, and maybe even between the supers and the Luminaries.  That might make a great long-term arc.

Also, people need to die.  Not just for kicks, but to support the story.  The A-Team was great when I was kid, but did anyone notice that, amid all the automatic weapons fire, no one ever got shot?

My .02, anyways.  I'm looking forward to watching this develop.