Author Topic: EP234: The Secret Protocols of the Elders of Zion  (Read 32314 times)

Yargling

  • Peltast
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Reply #25 on: January 22, 2010, 02:34:53 PM
Interesting story; abit hard to follow at first, but after that very enjoyable - also, God is a giant smoke alien? :D



WillMoo

  • Palmer
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Reply #26 on: January 22, 2010, 02:43:17 PM
I liked this one. It had a good concept behind it and flowed pretty well. The only criticisms I would have is that the overall story shows very little understanding of the Rastafarian way of life. It made it appear that smoking weed was the main tenet of the religion and that all Rasta's toke up. Smoking weed is akin to partaking in Communion. It would be strange to have a story where say, Catholics walked around all day in a wine induced state of awareness. I understand that the smoke was simply a conduit or plot device but it still fell a little flat.
Also, is it just me or is anyone else really, really tired of the Americans being portrayed as the bad guys? It all sounds a little flakey. The Jews are in league with the blacks to escape the bad Americans. Crap...the more I think about it the less I like the story.



Talia

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2682
  • Muahahahaha
Reply #27 on: January 23, 2010, 12:38:45 AM
It would be strange to have a story where say, Catholics walked around all day in a wine induced state of awareness. I understand that the smoke was simply a conduit or plot device but it still fell a little flat.

actually I think that would be kind of awesome. Hehehe.

Also, is it just me or is anyone else really, really tired of the Americans being portrayed as the bad guys?

I'm not, really, cause it seems to me a lot of the time we are.



Kanasta

  • Peltast
  • ***
  • Posts: 81
Reply #28 on: January 23, 2010, 12:41:33 PM
How could we tell that the little girl was "the first to not need the physical presence" of the smoke? We were constantly told that the smoke was everywhere- so surely she was just inhaling secondary smoke?
I liked the story but I was a bit disappointed that it didn't match my expectations from the title- I thought it was going to be about a Woody Allen-like superhero getting bossed about by his parents  ;D



KenK

  • Guest
Reply #29 on: January 23, 2010, 01:19:07 PM
@WillMoo, Talia
Quote
is it just me or is anyone else really, really tired of the Americans being portrayed as the bad guys?
Nope. It ain't just you.  ;)



Scattercat

  • Caution:
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 4904
  • Amateur wordsmith
    • Mirrorshards
Reply #30 on: January 23, 2010, 08:17:54 PM
How could we tell that the little girl was "the first to not need the physical presence" of the smoke?

It's like the last line of dialogue in the story.  Right at the end, when she senses her brother even though he's held captive on the other ship.

(And FWIW, I can believe Americans as the bad guys a lot more easily than as the pure and holy good guys, which is how we mostly used to see them in various flicks and books.  Call it realism.)



WillMoo

  • Palmer
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Reply #31 on: January 24, 2010, 12:40:15 AM
How could we tell that the little girl was "the first to not need the physical presence" of the smoke?

It's like the last line of dialogue in the story.  Right at the end, when she senses her brother even though he's held captive on the other ship.

(And FWIW, I can believe Americans as the bad guys a lot more easily than as the pure and holy good guys, which is how we mostly used to see them in various flicks and books.  Call it realism.)

So it is an either/or situation with you? Interesting that the US and us "bad guys" are the main people who show up to lend a hand to pretty much anyone in need and that our per capita charitable contributions is more than double that of any country. I don't expect that Americans always be shown as white hat heroes but recently the trend to portray Americans as bad guys shows an intellectually dishonesty and mental laziness.



Scattercat

  • Caution:
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 4904
  • Amateur wordsmith
    • Mirrorshards
Reply #32 on: January 24, 2010, 12:59:26 AM
So it is an either/or situation with you? Interesting that the US and us "bad guys" are the main people who show up to lend a hand to pretty much anyone in need and that our per capita charitable contributions is more than double that of any country. I don't expect that Americans always be shown as white hat heroes but recently the trend to portray Americans as bad guys shows an intellectually dishonesty and mental laziness.

Never said it was either/or.  Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though.  Takes the taste of straw out.



eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6109
Reply #33 on: January 24, 2010, 02:36:51 PM
So, the story didn't do much for me. It wasn't bad, it just that once I got a few minutes into it and knew what was going on, the rest just seemed to follow a very predicatable path. And, as was already pointed above, it really liked hammering in the plot points in case we missed them the first time.

I wonder if there's any sort of guide for pronouncing Israeli names that I can buy Steve. Every time he said "Amnon" it hurt a little. (The accents didn't bother me, on the other hand).
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 03:01:05 PM by eytanz »



kibitzer

  • Purveyor of Unsolicited Opinions
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 2228
  • Kibitzer: A meddler who offers unwanted advice
Reply #34 on: January 24, 2010, 09:02:20 PM
Sorry folks, found this one incredibly dull and uninteresting -- didn't listen to more than about five minutes. To be fair, I'm not that into Marley and rasta-culture so that may have put me off, dunno. I just found it in no way engaging.

Seriously, I thought it was a very imaginative story, especially the idea of packets of information being transfered over a chemical network to the brain. 

Sounds kinda like The Diamond Age.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 09:10:06 PM by kibitzer »



wakela

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 779
    • Mr. Wake
Reply #35 on: January 24, 2010, 11:19:53 PM
How could we tell that the little girl was "the first to not need the physical presence" of the smoke?

It's like the last line of dialogue in the story.  Right at the end, when she senses her brother even though he's held captive on the other ship.

(And FWIW, I can believe Americans as the bad guys a lot more easily than as the pure and holy good guys, which is how we mostly used to see them in various flicks and books.  Call it realism.)
Agreed (though I would have to look up the charitable contribution numbers).
When it's a clash of economic systems Capitalism is the bad guy.
When it's a clash of cultures/countries the US is the bad guy.
When it's a clash of species humans are the bad guy.

Some nuance and/or variety would be welcome. 

Edited to fix the quote tags.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 11:38:20 PM by wakela »



WillMoo

  • Palmer
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Reply #36 on: January 25, 2010, 02:00:07 PM
So it is an either/or situation with you? Interesting that the US and us "bad guys" are the main people who show up to lend a hand to pretty much anyone in need and that our per capita charitable contributions is more than double that of any country. I don't expect that Americans always be shown as white hat heroes but recently the trend to portray Americans as bad guys shows an intellectually dishonesty and mental laziness.

Never said it was either/or.  Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though.  Takes the taste of straw out.
Notice the punctuation mark at the end of the first sentence. Those little symbols  are clues as to how the sentence is to be read. In this case it was to be read as a question not as a statement. As it is a question, it is not putting words into your mouth.

Not that anyone cares, but here are the themes that bore the hell out of me: All men are bad, all white men are bad, Americans are evil, capitalists are evil, all gay characters are one dimensional in that their entire lives revolve around their homosexuality, supposed sci-fi stories that are really just another genre in space (space cowboy type of stuff) ... feel free to add your own.



Alasdair5000

  • Editor
  • *****
  • Posts: 1022
    • My blog
Reply #37 on: January 25, 2010, 02:47:41 PM
Ladies and gentlemen this is your 14.44 GMT cordiality reminder.  Everyone has different opinions, context is basically impossible on the internet and we're all here fr the same thing; to discuss the stories in a friendly, open, accepting manner.  Please pay particular attention to the words 'friendly' and 'accepting'.



Swamp

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 2230
    • Journey Into... podcast
Reply #38 on: January 25, 2010, 02:58:55 PM
Al beat me to it. 'Nuff said.

Facehuggers don't have heads!

Come with me and Journey Into... another fun podcast


DKT

  • Friendly Neighborhood
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 4980
  • PodCastle is my Co-Pilot
    • Psalms & Hymns & Spiritual Noir
Reply #39 on: January 25, 2010, 07:05:45 PM
Dave, you have a story that's sort of like this, right?  The Adventures of Super-Spliff and the Thai-Stick Kid, wasn't it?  ;D

Well, that wasn't the original title, but that was what it was renamed once Kevin Smith optioned the movie rights (in some weird alternate reality). It looks nice on the shelf next to my Bluntman and Chronic unrated director's cut  :D


Scattercat

  • Caution:
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 4904
  • Amateur wordsmith
    • Mirrorshards
Reply #40 on: January 26, 2010, 12:05:04 AM
When it's a clash of economic systems Capitalism is the bad guy.
When it's a clash of cultures/countries the US is the bad guy.
When it's a clash of species humans are the bad guy.

Some nuance and/or variety would be welcome. 

I call confirmation bias.  I had to go back ten episodes before I found one (Pirate Solutions) which matched any of your descriptors, and even then the anti-capitalism was more of just pure anarchism.  "Everything That Matters" pretty much endorsed capitalism and thrill-seeking on multiple levels.  "Littleblossom" had Americans/International Peacekeepers as pretty obvious good guys, even if the protagonist didn't see them that way.  "Candy Art" was even a love song to capitalistic success and pasty white guys.  The other stories didn't really touch on any of this (unless you want to count "His Master's Voice" as being anti-capitalist because it riffed on the RIAA, or anti-human 'cause the heros were a dog and cat.)

Maybe it bugs you more when you see it, but it's hardly fair to say that EP isn't providing nuance or variety.



OsamaBinLondon

  • Palmer
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Reply #41 on: January 26, 2010, 01:23:53 PM
I really had to persevere though the first ten minutes or so of this one, and even then it was barely worth it.  I have some compassion for the Jamaicans who have had to struggle with their image as ganja smoking, dreadlocked, rastafarians only to find it has follwed them into the sci fi genre and outta space.  Actually I give EP its dues for airing this one given its fairly unchartered perspective, even though I didn't think it was particularly engaging.  I also have to agree with many of the posts here, way too cliched too many sterotypes...



heyes

  • Peltast
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
    • The Returning
Reply #42 on: January 26, 2010, 01:59:57 PM
I really enjoyed this story, it was fun.  Also nice to hear a piece that explored religion and spirituality in a way that didn't simply cast them as the villains.  I'm afraid after a recently scathing outro by Mr. Eley that this next comment won;t go over well, but I absolutely swear that I am not being sarcastic, but rather genuine.  I loved hearing the "click click" sound used to indicate another take was required, and then to hear the second version.  I like that kind of behind the scenes stuff.

"Feed me Seymour!"
     -Audry II
"You were not put on the Earth to get it, Mr. Burton"
     - Lo Pan


stePH

  • Actually has enough cowbell.
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 3906
  • Cool story, bro!
    • Thetatr0n on SoundCloud
Reply #43 on: January 26, 2010, 03:12:07 PM
It looks nice on the shelf next to my Bluntman and Chronic unrated director's cut  :D

Ugh, I hated that movie.  They took a great comic book property and turned it into a ninety-minute gay joke.

"Nerdcore is like playing Halo while getting a blow-job from Hello Kitty."
-- some guy interviewed in Nerdcore Rising


Kanasta

  • Peltast
  • ***
  • Posts: 81
Reply #44 on: January 26, 2010, 09:02:37 PM
"How could we tell that the little girl was "the first to not need the physical presence" of the smoke?

It's like the last line of dialogue in the story.  Right at the end, when she senses her brother even though he's held captive on the other ship."



I didn't mean 'how could we tell she was connected to the consciousness'; I meant 'how could we tell she didn't need the physical presence of the smoke', because at a number of places in the story we are told the smoke is "everywhere" so she is always in its physical presence, even if she is not actually smoking the weed herself.

BTW, how do you quote someone without putting your whole post inside blue "quote boxes"? Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 09:07:54 PM by Kanasta »



tinroof

  • Palmer
  • **
  • Posts: 47
Reply #45 on: January 26, 2010, 10:53:30 PM
I assumed it was that she was able to sense her brother without him being in contact with the smoke. And therefore she wasn't simply breathing in his thoughts like she did everyone else's. I don't know, I didn't really follow most of the technobabble.

As for quoting, it's just [ quote] [/ quote] without the spaces. You were probably missing the close tag.



eytanz

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6109
Reply #46 on: January 26, 2010, 11:03:20 PM
I assumed it was that she was able to sense her brother without him being in contact with the smoke. And therefore she wasn't simply breathing in his thoughts like she did everyone else's. I don't know, I didn't really follow most of the technobabble.

I agree with this assumption - the brother was being held captive on one of the American Corporate ships, and out of the range of the smoke.



CryptoMe

  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 1146
Reply #47 on: January 27, 2010, 04:44:58 AM
I too found this story "just okay" and for many of the reasons already mentioned.

What made this story memorable for me is the Rastafarian culture. My experience with Rasta is limited to some Bob Marley songs and the occasional dread I see around the city. So feeling like I was missing something from the story, and being that kind of geek, I checked out Rastafarian culture on the web. That was really interesting and enlightening. I learned so many things I never knew I didn't know. That's what I liked the most about this story.



Scattercat

  • Caution:
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 4904
  • Amateur wordsmith
    • Mirrorshards
Reply #48 on: January 27, 2010, 08:16:48 AM
I agree with this assumption - the brother was being held captive on one of the American Corporate ships, and out of the range of the smoke.

Either way, she's totes the Chosen One who will lead the universe to Jah and the true understanding of love and etc.  She's allowed to have super-speedy access to Jah-powers and not be as limited by the physical smoke as the others are, is my point.



kibitzer

  • Purveyor of Unsolicited Opinions
  • Hipparch
  • ******
  • Posts: 2228
  • Kibitzer: A meddler who offers unwanted advice
Reply #49 on: January 27, 2010, 09:21:05 AM
polarising is good, right?