audio editing

[langly]

Maybe I am too picky about this since I've done audio editing for a living in the past but more and more, on the 'pod franchises and other podcasts (secret world chronicle to name one) by big names I keep hearing retakes, even when the reader uses a clicker to tag them. Are people getting lazier with production or am I getting too picky? I find that 'professional' audio production people have a very low opinion of podcasting by non-pro's for this reason among others. Yes, you may have to listen to the complete reading several times to catch flubs but why NOT! It just takes a little time and effort to keep the technical side as good as the writing.

Thanks much.

[Talia]

I'm not a podcaster, but it seems to me the big difference is the "professionals" do this for a living, while "nonprofessionals" do it for the love of the activity. The people involved in "nonprofessional" production have whole other lives and jobs that HAVE to take priority, because, you know, employment is good This means they may not catch every edit or other thing, if they don't have time to repeatedly re-listen to it or whatever, if life throws something their way that distracts them. If this causes pros to have "low opinions" of podcasting, they'e arrogant jerks who clearly make no effort to see things from any other perspective. And they clearly have no concept of doing something for fun rather than to just pay the bills.

Also, RE: Secret World Chronicles – Unfortunately for them, the people involved have been PLAGUED by personal problems for the last couple years - medical emergencies and personal disasters both. So consider in particular cutting them some slack.

[deflective]

i've never made a long recording but i hear that flicking the microphone with your finger a couple times creates a much louder pop that is easily visible on the levels so that you don't have to relisten to the whole episode to catch it.

[eytanz]

i've never made a long recording but i hear that flicking the microphone with your finger a couple times creates a much louder pop that is easily visible on the levels so that you don't have to relisten to the whole episode to catch it.

And it also is really unpleasant to your audience if you happen to leave it in (which happened on EA podcasts several times in the past few years)

[deflective]

you mean a loud pop or the clicker?

[eytanz]

you mean a loud pop or the clicker?

We've had both, I think, from different narrators.

[deflective]

there might have been pop once, i can't say there hasn't been one.  there have been at least half a dozen clickers in the last half year.

it seems to be a question of consistent editing with a rare unpleasant incident or consistent problems.  a case could be made for either choice.

[eytanz]

I should clarify that I wasn't seeking to complain about the podcast editing here, but rather just use the (in my opinion very occsaional) problems here as an illustration as to why using methods such as clickers and pops have a cost - if you do that and still fail to edit out the section, it will be more noticable to the listener than if you do nothing.

[Mike Boris]

That's why I cuss, drink a little water, then belch.  1) Hard to miss in the re-listen during post and 2) If I do, it's damn entertaining...ok, a little distracting perhaps, but damn funny.

Anyone catch any belching I missed?

[DKT]

Maybe at some point we should do a gag reel of how different EA hosts/narrators cope with mistakes before they're edited out? Occasionally you get the clicker, occasionally you get burps, occasionally, you get nervous chuckles, occasionally you get me yelling profanities at myself.

[Talia]

Might I suggest, instead of a clicker, brief musical numbers? It would certainly be difficult to overlook the story being interrupted by a line or two from, say, 'Music of the Night' or 'Don't Cry for Me Argentina.'

I am a genius.

[Mike Boris]

Edit that down and you get: Escape Artists- The Musical!
A montage of greatest hits and snarky jingles that got stuck in your head earlier in the day.

I think you're on to something here.

[Scattercat]

Pers'nally, I don't much care.  The podcasts are exceedingly well-made for something that is literally given away for free.  Sure, if I'd paid fifteen bucks for a CD and found audio editing artifacts in it, I'd be quite irritated and might ask for a refund, but when something is done out of sheer love and enthusiasm, I have a hard time being bothered by minor errors, especially when the content-makers are uniformly polite and cheerful about admitting to goofs and working to fix them.  When I notice an editing artifact, I mention it, and that's that.  Then they know, and if they decide to take the time to go back and touch up the bad spot, then kudos to them.

Besides, it's like a thumbprint in a handmade bowl; it lets you know someone made it, personally, and not as part of something too large and faceless to be understood.

[stePH]

I'm not a podcaster, but it seems to me the big difference is the "professionals" do this for a living, while "nonprofessionals" do it for the love of the activity. The people involved in "nonprofessional" production have whole other lives and jobs that HAVE to take priority, because, you know, employment is good This means they may not catch every edit or other thing, if they don't have time to repeatedly re-listen to it or whatever, if life throws something their way that distracts them. If this causes pros to have "low opinions" of podcasting, they'e arrogant jerks who clearly make no effort to see things from any other perspective. And they clearly have no concept of doing something for fun rather than to just pay the bills.

I was recording my own audiobook of C.J. Cherryh's Cyteen a while back, a labor of love if ever there was one.  I made it a point to listen to it before finalizing anything and would not tolerate flubbed lines or repeats -- in fact, I would almost always edit on the fly -- on an error during the reading, I would stop recording, cut out the error, and begin recording again from that point.

I ended up scrapping my work, after recording four or five CDs worth, because there was too much breath noise on the mic.  This was before I figured out how to make a cheap breath filter.  But the project is on hiatus, not abandoned. It merely awaits my having the will and the time to restart it.

And I'm still willing to read for EA, though I haven't yet heard from EP or PP on my audition.  Maybe it's because the story I chose is best suited for Podcastle?  I'll do another one; I think "The Eyes Have It" by Philip Dick could work on either of the the other two.

[Talia]

I'm not a podcaster, but it seems to me the big difference is the "professionals" do this for a living, while "nonprofessionals" do it for the love of the activity. The people involved in "nonprofessional" production have whole other lives and jobs that HAVE to take priority, because, you know, employment is good This means they may not catch every edit or other thing, if they don't have time to repeatedly re-listen to it or whatever, if life throws something their way that distracts them. If this causes pros to have "low opinions" of podcasting, they'e arrogant jerks who clearly make no effort to see things from any other perspective. And they clearly have no concept of doing something for fun rather than to just pay the bills.

I was recording my own audiobook of C.J. Cherryh's Cyteen a while back, a labor of love if ever there was one.  I made it a point to listen to it before finalizing anything and would not tolerate flubbed lines or repeats -- in fact, I would almost always edit on the fly -- on an error during the reading, I would stop recording, cut out the error, and begin recording again from that point.

I ended up scrapping my work, after recording four or five CDs worth, because there was too much breath noise on the mic.  This was before I figured out how to make a cheap breath filter.  But the project is on hiatus, not abandoned. It merely awaits my having the will and the time to restart it.

And I'm still willing to read for EA, though I haven't yet heard from EP or PP on my audition.  Maybe it's because the story I chose is best suited for Podcastle?  I'll do another one; I think "The Eyes Have It" by Philip Dick could work on either of the the other two.

There's a huge, huge, huge, huge difference between recording a project for yourself for fun and doing it for a weekly podcast with a determined release schedule.

[stePH]

There's a huge, huge, huge, huge difference between recording a project for yourself for fun and doing it for a weekly podcast with a determined release schedule.

perhaps, but I would think that pride in the work, and the desire to turn out a worthy product, would be a consideration in both situations.

[Talia]

There's a huge, huge, huge, huge difference between recording a project for yourself for fun and doing it for a weekly podcast with a determined release schedule.

perhaps, but I would think that pride in the work, and the desire to turn out a worthy product, would be a consideration in both situations.

I'm sure it is. But having a time schedule doesn't necesarily allow for listening to something multiple times.

[stePH]

...But having a time schedule doesn't necesarily allow for listening to something multiple times.

Once is enough, if you're paying attention.

[nevermore_66]

I might be wrong, but if I was forced to conjure a guess, I would hazard that variable between the two is neither pride nor alertness, but the distance between an actualized show and a project on an indefinite back-burner.

The former can't wait for time and will.

[Anarkey]

And I'm still willing to read for EA, though I haven't yet heard from EP or PP on my audition.  Maybe it's because the story I chose is best suited for Podcastle?  I'll do another one; I think "The Eyes Have It" by Philip Dick could work on either of the the other two.

Can't speak for EP or PP obviously, though at PC we have your name in our potential narrators list.  However, I'll note that at the moment we have a surfeit of male narrators, many of them not only very, very good but also tried, tested and well-loved by the audience (Cheyenne Wright, Steve Anderson, Wilson Fowlie, Rajan Khanna, frex and that's just off the top of my head) while we are currently scrambling to fill the narrations which require female voices. 

So you may have to wait a bit longer.

[mgraves]

I'd be happy to do some audio post-production for EP. In a past life I spend a decade as a television online editor. I've edited both video and audio on everything from 1/4" two-track tape, to 24-track 2" Studer reels & ProTools. I also used to be part of a team of volunteers who did audio post on the now nearly defunct Blue Box Podcast on VoIP Security. (http://www.blueboxpodcast.com/)

[Planish]

i've never made a long recording but i hear that flicking the microphone with your finger a couple times creates a much louder pop that is easily visible on the levels so that you don't have to relisten to the whole episode to catch it.

Yup. That, or tongue clicking, or a mechanical clicker, but do it three times, with the same time gap between the 2nd and 3rd clicks as between the 1st and 2nd clicks, and the amplitude should go full scale (clipping the waveform).

The regular pattern of three narrow spikes jumps out at you when you scroll through the track, different from the usual pops.

Oh, now that I think of it, operating a spring steel "cricket" clicker three times would give you six spikes. Whatever.