Author Topic: Pseudopod 186: Ankor Sabat  (Read 41082 times)

Ben Phillips

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on: March 19, 2010, 05:53:04 PM
Pseudopod 186: Ankor Sabat


By C. Deskin Rink
Read by Ben Phillips

But less than a year later, when Lord Galen returned home from a hunting trip, he discovered four of his guards torn limb-from-limb, his bedroom window broken in from the outside, monstrous claw marks on the second floor balcony and, of his beloved, no trace. Most disturbing of all was what he beheld graven into the wall above her bed: a monstrous blue sigil in the form of a six-lobed eye. No earthly implement could have rendered the perfectly aligned delineations of that unmentionable shape; nor could any earthly ink have provided its hateful color which glimmered balefully even in total darkness.

Terrible was Lord Galen’s grief, but even more terrible was the thing which grew by degrees within him: his wrath.




Listen to this week's Pseudopod.



BrianDeacon

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Reply #1 on: March 19, 2010, 08:01:18 PM
I hate snarky folk that just enjoy picking apart a not-good story just because they're too lazy to go home and kick the dog.  And I can't help but imagine the author reading these comments.

But....

This was just really awful.  Like I'm really surprised it made the cut.  I haven't even read a lot of Lovecraft, and it still felt like a tribute band.

It was almost kind of funny, though, how he even mimicked Lovecraft's weaknesses.  Whenever I read Lovecraft not-describe something as "indescribable", "unspeakable", or "unimaginable" I can't help but think he was just filling in from his own notes where he wrote "put something scary here, not sure what yet".

I really did think about 10 minutes into it that some twist was going to come up that would let me know that it started out intentionally bad.  Like, "Ha ha!  You're actually trapped forever in a nightmare recreation of unpublished Lovecraft!  Spooooky!"

Bleh.  How not to end on snark.... You guys normally do miles better than this... I hope somebody coming to Pseudopod for the first time listens to some of the great stuff you've put out in the past few weeks.



empathy44

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Reply #2 on: March 19, 2010, 08:47:16 PM
I liked the way it was written, I just yearned for a different ending--as in wanted one I didn't expect. I love good verbosity and I enjoyed it on that level.

I thought the ending would be either she wouldn't  recognize him--or is repulsed by him because of his age--or that he wouldn't recognize her--or is repulsed by her (with an ever so slight chance that he would become the new High Priest due to the changes his evil deeds had wrought in his nature). Mind you, I don't know what  an "other" ending would entail... I suppose having the High Priest not give two hoots about humans at all being they are truly insects to him and annoyed that sycophants keep bringing him ugly ape women.



TaraInDC

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Reply #3 on: March 19, 2010, 10:05:21 PM
I enjoyed the style enough that I didn't mind that the plot was a little bit obvious.  Particularly liked the descriptions of the harem.  Wasn't wild about the High Priest's spell-it-out monologue at the end, but overall a fun listen!



lowky

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Reply #4 on: March 20, 2010, 01:18:26 PM
at first it seemed like a bad pastiche of Lovecraft but as the story went on I enjoyed it more and more.  I thought this was one of the better podcasts in a while for what I like in a horror story.  Not that I haven't liked other stories, just this one pushed the right buttons for me.


snap-hiss

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Reply #5 on: March 20, 2010, 01:26:09 PM
I enjoyed the style enough that I didn't mind that the plot was a little bit obvious. 

Agreed, although it imitated Lovecraft a little too well.  Great language, description, and concepts... weak plot.

You just can't get away with certain words (cyclopean, unspeakable).  I was listening to this just waiting for "non-Euclidean".

Honestly though, the good did outweigh the bad.  The priest did not disappoint, and the harem was great.

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tinroof

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Reply #6 on: March 20, 2010, 06:22:07 PM
I could have done without the high priest's speech at the end. It would have been much more effective had it simply cut off at his laughter after the guy stomps off planning to torture everyone - everything after that is just redundant and overplayed. (Did anyone not figure out the moment she appeared that the girl in the capsule was Fiona?) I know it's a style thing, but I don't like styles that require people to explain plot twists at length to empty air.

Overall, good atmosphere, a nice "look how CREEPY and GROSS I am" piece, but beyond that there wasn't much to make it memorable.



Kapitano

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Reply #7 on: March 20, 2010, 10:38:21 PM
Christ it was a pretentious pile of wank. It was a checklist of everything not to do.

* Pseudo-grand world creation with lots of sub-Tolkein place names.
* Pile on the standard horror adjectives - till you run out of them and have to start describing things as "unspeakable".
* Have the hero lose all remaining hope, several times in succession.
* Give the big bad exactly one insult to throw at the hero, again and again - "insect".
* Signify that a name refers to something evil by putting a "th" in it.
* Obvious "surprise" at the end - with the big bad explaining it for the benefit of dumb readers.

There's a difference between horror and disgust. And there's a difference between overblown lip-smacking description and ambiance.

BTW, hello everyone. This story annoyed me so much I finally registered.



lowky

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Reply #8 on: March 21, 2010, 01:21:31 AM
Christ it was a pretentious pile of wank. It was a checklist of everything not to do.

* Pseudo-grand world creation with lots of sub-Tolkein place names.
* Pile on the standard horror adjectives - till you run out of them and have to start describing things as "unspeakable".
* Have the hero lose all remaining hope, several times in succession.
* Give the big bad exactly one insult to throw at the hero, again and again - "insect".
* Signify that a name refers to something evil by putting a "th" in it.
* Obvious "surprise" at the end - with the big bad explaining it for the benefit of dumb readers.

There's a difference between horror and disgust. And there's a difference between overblown lip-smacking description and ambiance.

BTW, hello everyone. This story annoyed me so much I finally registered.

Let me guess you don't like H. P. Lovecraft either, who would regularly violate almost all of your "rules"


Kapitano

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Reply #9 on: March 21, 2010, 05:04:08 PM
Lovecraft was better when he didn't do these things. The Ankor Sabat story could have been a parody of Lovecraft at his worst. In fact, for the first few minutes, that's what I thought it must be.

An intentional parody of Lovecraft at his best...that would take skill. That would make a great pseudopodcast, IMO.



stePH

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Reply #10 on: March 21, 2010, 05:36:56 PM
Listened to this one at bedtime last night; attention drifted, and I dozed through most of the middle.  Came back to attention near the end as Fiona was brought out.  Didn't think much of the story, not inclined to listen again for whatever I missed in the middle.

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eytanz

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Reply #11 on: March 21, 2010, 05:40:22 PM
While I did not quite hate this story as much as some people in the thread above, I definitely found little to like in it. It revisited an old trope without adding much, except very poor writing - and I love Lovecraft, and Lord Dunsany, and other writers which this story emulates. But the writing was not just derivative, it also didn't feel like it was written with an understanding of how to properly use the styles it was emulating.



lowky

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Reply #12 on: March 21, 2010, 06:18:41 PM
I still assert the story worked for ME.  Is it as good as Lovecraft and some of his contemporaries, no, the only part that really turned me off was the villain becoming a Bond Villain at the end.


snap-hiss

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Reply #13 on: March 21, 2010, 06:31:23 PM
It revisited an old trope without adding much, except very poor writing

That is harsh.  Regardless of your opinion on the work "very poor writing" this is not.

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eytanz

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Reply #14 on: March 21, 2010, 06:59:33 PM
It revisited an old trope without adding much, except very poor writing

That is harsh.  Regardless of your opinion on the work "very poor writing" this is not.

So, you ignore the post who called it "just really awful" and the one that called it "a pretentious pile of wank" and called my post harsh?

"Very poor writing" is a subjective opinion, and I stand by it. I don't expect everyone to share it, there clearly are people who liked this story, and I'm glad for them - they got more out of their time than I did. I didn't hate the story, but I thought it was poorly written.



expatrie

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Reply #15 on: March 21, 2010, 07:18:05 PM
I'm new, too, and I just listened to "Learning to Fly" and "Ankhor Sabat" yesterday.  I write as a hobby and have written one piece deliberately emulating a writer's style (Salinger).  It's difficult.  A lot more difficult than you might think.  When I started "Ankhor Sabat" I knew immediately it was a Lovecraft homage, and I think it did a good job of it.  Sometimes a nice adjective is fun, not everything has to be Hemingway to be good, and when it comes to style, suppressing your own is another difficult element of the writing.

I don't see the story as weak, or pretentious, or poor.  All the stuff others disliked, I liked.  I view it as an homage that acknowledges the challenges the original author faced.  ( I confess here I have read more author's opinions of Lovecraft than I've read by Lovecraft, so I may be misinformed.)

I had more of an issue with mispronounced / non-standard pronunciation of words.  Is the word pronounced Sig - ill supposed to be sigil, rhymes with vigil?  Or is it a word I don't recognize?  I thought miscegenation had a hard k in it but I was wrong.  So I learned something, too.

If you don't like something, the most valid criticism is "I didn't like it."  That's really all that matters.  The why is irrelevant, taste being subjective and all.  It is, however, nice to see, I guess, sort of an assurance the review isn't a hit piece and is about the writing, or a bit of critique for the author to consider "next time."

Has anyone read "A Study in Emerald" by Neil Gaiman?  (I may have the title wrong.)  Cthulu meets Sherlock Holmes.  Fun.



Sgarre1

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Reply #16 on: March 21, 2010, 10:13:44 PM
I'm surprised how many people are tagging this as Lovecraft derivative (points to Eytanz for name-checking Lord Dunsany, however) when the real inspiration seems to me to be Clark Ashton Smith - specifically Zothique (apparent through what might be considered anachronistic details like "repeating rifles" and "newspapers").

That having been said - had I heard this a few years ago, I probably would have had my standard reaction to a genre piece like this: my tastes in Fantasy are very specific and usually don't encompass much Heroic Fantasy (to which this is related) or the subgenre (or sub-sub genre) of Sword & Sorcery (which is what this is).  I have great respect for those genres but they don't usually work for me personally, even more so in attempting to evoke fright.  However, two things would temper that reaction - over the last few years, in an effort to explore my way out what I think are the modern dead-ends of horror fiction, I've been doing some related readings and, relevant to this, those include the varied Decadent literary movements of the late 19th century (thank you Dedalus Books!).  Tying into that, by sheer happenstance I listened to some Clark Ashton Smith readings earlier this year, mostly of Zothique stuff.  Smith is fairly prevalent in most Lovecraft circle comps so I'd read him many times before but, as I said, the whole sword & sorcery shtick is not my bag.  But hearing him read, I realized two things - one, my tolerance for writing in this style goes up dramatically.  The use (which some modern readers, myself included, misread as abuse) of language and arcane names are best served when spoken aloud and run around the tongue like a fine wine.  Secondly, and most importantly, what Smith was doing was deliberately merging fantasy tropes with a decadent style at the beginning of the 20th century, so that means overwrought ornamentation, fevered prose, endless multiplication, excess in service of a ripe and humid atmosphere.  Decadent writing is like a spicy broth or a soft cheese, overpowering and intoxicating and not to be consumed too often.  It uses the tools of Romanticism but in a rejection of Classicism.

And a lot of modern readers have been trained to believe that this is an incorrect way to write, instead of understanding that at its best (an important qualifier), this is just another way of writing which usually strikes a sour note to the modern ear.  It can be, and has been, done badly, and will continue to be.  It is very difficult to do well and, an argument can be made, no one has really attempted an updating since Michael Moorcock (that I'm aware of).

Regarding this story, I felt the author did a fairly solid take on Smith/Moorcock dark fantasy decadence.  It seemed like Clark Ashton Smith writing a variation of H.G. Wells' "The Pearl Of Love".  Perhaps it might have been a better fit for Podcastle, but part of the point of Pseudopod is to offer up a variety of styles in horror fiction, and very few people like (or should be expected to like) all styles.  But exposure leads to awareness and awareness can lead to acceptance and perhaps even attraction.  The didactic ending, again, is par for the course for these things, as they tend to have a fable-like structure.  But if that doesn't work for you, that's absolutely fine, I'm just noting that it would be a mistake to consider it a mistake - it's a stylistic choice.

As an addendum: of Clark Ashton Smith's fiction I've loved "The Gorgon" and liked "A Rendezvous In Averoigne", "The Disinterment of Venus", "The Mandrakes", "The Ninth Skeleton", "The Plutonian Drug" and "The Seed From The Sepulcher".  There's lots of his stuff I don't like.  Overwrought still has to come in small doses for me (like a bon-bon laced with opium) and can easily go on for too long.  The readings that impressed me recently were of "The Maze of Maâl Dweb" and "The Empire Of the Necromancers".
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 12:42:34 PM by Sgarre1 »



Alasdair5000

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Reply #17 on: March 21, 2010, 11:01:46 PM
Three points, in passing:

-Welcome to the new posters, how are you guys doing?:) 

-Sgarre1-Interesting points all the way along.  I simultaneously feel dumber AND smarter and that's rare.  Seriously, interesting stuff:)

-Some of this discussion is getting dangerously close to the limits of the civil.  I recommend people re read the rules post, which a mod will be was happy to link to in just a moment, take a breath, step back from the keyboard and remember that this story, like every other story we post, has been written by a real person and not just a name. 

« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 11:14:32 PM by Bdoomed »



lowky

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Reply #18 on: March 21, 2010, 11:29:56 PM
I'm surprised how many people are tagging this as Lovecraft derivative (points to Eytanz for name-checking Lord Dunsany, however) when the real inspiration seems to me to be Clark Ashton Smith - specifically Zothique (apparent through what might be considered anachronistic details like "repeating rifles" and "newspapers").

Actually the talk of the Atlantean High Priest Klarkash-Ton made me relisten and i have to agree that it is a story in his style but disagree on Zothique and say instead it is Hyperborea because of Tsathoggua



Sgarre1

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Reply #19 on: March 21, 2010, 11:59:46 PM
They had repeating rifles and newspapers in Hyperborea?  Of course, I didn't mean it was literally Zothique, of course, but in that dying earth has reverted to sword and sorcery style.



lowky

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Reply #20 on: March 22, 2010, 01:20:13 AM
They had repeating rifles and newspapers in Hyperborea?  Of course, I didn't mean it was literally Zothique, of course, but in that dying earth has reverted to sword and sorcery style.

Well if you are going to honor your favorite author or the like why not combine both series?


Sgarre1

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Reply #21 on: March 22, 2010, 03:37:48 AM
Thank you for the kind words Alasdair!  Keep up the great intros and outros!

I did want to reiterate that I'm in no way saying that people who didn't like the story are wrong or don't get it, just that it's a difficult and fairly uncommon story style.



eytanz

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Reply #22 on: March 22, 2010, 09:02:23 AM
I'd also like to thank you, Sgarre1, for your discussion - I have never read Clark Ashton Smith, and I want to now. The thing is, I really like sword-and-sorcery, and I *like* the overwraught early 20th century style that this story is referring to. And while I may be missing something by the fact that I don't know Ashton Smith's work, I still want to defend my assertion that this particular work is poorly written.

The problem, as it so often is, is with the pacing. In order to pull of this style succesfully, the story must relish in its own descriptions. This story did not. Rather, the first half of it seemed rushed, trying to get the backstory out of the way in order to get to the confrontation at the end. And once the story shifted to Ankor Sabat, it felt very derivative, like it was emulating rather than reviving the style. Almost every description was entirely predicatable, in that I actually found myself providing adjectives before Ben uttered them. Moorcock was a late master of this form, but he added a lot to it. This story, in my eyes - and I fully admit to judging it based on one listen, and neither a close read nor one where I go back and re-read its influences - merely apes.

So when I said "poor writing", I did not mean that the style in which the story was written is poor - rather, that it was a poor example of this style. Which it still seems to me, though maybe I will feel differently once I read Clark Ashton Smith.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 01:26:56 PM by eytanz »



gelee

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Reply #23 on: March 22, 2010, 12:20:22 PM
I liked this one, though I would definately call this a style piece. I'm not familiar with Clark, but I would say this piece reminded me more of Dunsany than Lovecraft.
Really, this is one where the style is going to have a lot to do with whether or not you like this story.
Within it's appointed context, I'd say was done quite well.
Calling something a "pile of wank" if the style is not to your taste is a bit much.   



Sgarre1

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Reply #24 on: March 22, 2010, 01:09:26 PM
No need to defend your opinion at all, Eyetanz!  As I said myself, I found it fairly solid, which isn't exactly faint praise but isn't a resounding hit either.

All of this stuff comes out of Dunsany, of course.  The thing I think Moorcock did was take the Smith stylistic detail (more "sorcery") and meld it with Robert E. Howard's proactive action (more "sword") - adding in his own psychedelia.  In the Smith and Dunsany I've read, I would almost say that the action is background to the description - the stories have quests and battles and sneak-thievery, but these are rarely highlighted so much as an excuse to get on to the next description and, finally, the ultimate "point" of the story.  It's an odd inversion, really, as it plays up action as story engine, reducing it to an almost mechanical role.

Coincidentally, all of this has been a nice precursor to a collection I have coming up in my to-read pile of the poetry of George Sterling, american poet, friend of Smith's and championed by elderly Ambrose Bierce, he wrote  epic decadent fantasy poems - most famous for "A Wine of Wizadry".