Author Topic: "You made me dress up as him!" (Discussion on current Doctor Who episodes)  (Read 31176 times)

Heradel

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I considered reviving one of the old Who threads, of which there are many, but new Doctor, new thread.

And, can we just start off with the awesomeness of this opening performance? All the finding himself bits were there, but along with the increased militancy of the latter Tennant. We saw the attempted use of the Shadow Proclamation by Eccleston, but it never carried the force with him that we see wielded at the end here. I guess the best compliment that I can pay is that I didn't miss Tennant in quite the way I'd expected to.

ETA: Also, I liked how it played with the TV trope of everyone having to be pretty by having Amelia halfway towards believable as a cop (though obviously seamed stockings are not usually standard police issue). Also, having the Doctor say that they were doing a special on TV faults when they burst into the older woman's house.  

It's a pretty clear break from the RTD days in that there's a new TARDIS and opening credit sequence, though there's only so much you can really alter with the DNA of a show this old (though the vignetted walkthrough of the field was new and fun, and the Star Trek ripoff with the blue light from the side and glowing hair was different, though probably explicable because he's still leaking power from the regeneration).

 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 12:44:07 AM by Ocicat »

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Poppydragon

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Have to agree with the comment about not missing David Tennant as much as I thought I would. A cracking start to the new series, possibly needs a couple more episodes to bed in but I think the new Dr might just do.

Man - despite his artistic pretensions, his sophistication, and his many accomplishments - owes his existence to a six inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.


Ocicat

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Just watched Episode 3.  Hum, seems like they're really going to be messing with the continuity of the show.  I'm still not sure how I feel about this.



Heradel

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Just watched Episode 3.  Hum, seems like they're really going to be messing with the continuity of the show.  I'm still not sure how I feel about this.

I'm not sure that it's really messing with the continuity, it was clear from the Cult of Scarro that some Daleks managed to escape the Time Lock, and it's clear something's gone wrong with the show's timeline/history (but not it's continuity) because Amelia no longer remembers the Dalek pilfering of Earth(obviously it's somehow related to the, really-far-too-obvious, cracks).

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stePH

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Have to agree with the comment about not missing David Tennant as much as I thought I would. A cracking start to the new series, possibly needs a couple more episodes to bed in but I think the new Dr might just do.

My wife is not liking him at all... mostly because his forehead is as freakishly disproportionate as Jay Leno's chin.  And she doesn't like the suspenders and bow-tie.

I told her that if we still had David Tennant, in addition to having Steven Moffatt in charge and writing more episodes, then the show might collapse and implode under the weight of its own sheer awesomeness, so it's just as well they have a new Doctor.  ;D

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Ocicat

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it's clear something's gone wrong with the show's timeline/history (but not it's continuity) because Amelia no longer remembers the Dalek pilfering of Earth(obviously it's somehow related to the, really-far-too-obvious, cracks).

I think Moffatt is using the cracks as a way to move the show into some alternate timeline where all the obvious alien stuff on Earth didn't happen.  Move the show back to "our" earth, as it were.  It was getting kinda out there, with Torchwood and UNIT and multiple alien invasions. 

But if that stuff gets wiped out, I'll kinda miss it.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 01:03:34 AM by Ocicat »



Alasdair5000

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Interesting theory.  The other one I've heard bandied around is that Amy isn't from when the Doctor assumes she's from.  Apparently Rory's badge shows a start date of 1990 and all the cars have 1990 and earlier licence plates. 

So, the current version of this theory is that the cracks have possibly caused time to acclerate, meaning you get facebook and camera phones ten years early which in turn explains some of the slightly odd stuff spread across the first three episodes and the Doctor's seeming inability to land when he thinks he's going to.



stePH

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Interesting theory.  The other one I've heard bandied around is that Amy isn't from when the Doctor assumes she's from.  Apparently Rory's badge shows a start date of 1990 and all the cars have 1990 and earlier licence plates. 

So, the current version of this theory is that the cracks have possibly caused time to acclerate, meaning you get facebook and camera phones ten years early which in turn explains some of the slightly odd stuff spread across the first three episodes and the Doctor's seeming inability to land when he thinks he's going to.
BTW Mr. Stuart: when the alien was talking to the Doctor about how the universe is "leaking", and when the oscilloscope had a persistent line just like the crack in Amelia's wall... both times I muttered: "Arc plot spotter's corner, doot-doo-doot-doo-doooooo..."  ;D

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Heradel

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Heradel

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And I approve:
Who is St George? Of course he's England's patron saint, you wally, representing all those romantic notions of Englishness, a defiant spirit, dragon slaying and a jolly large red cross. But hold a minute, we're not even sure that he existed. The Catholic encyclopaedia claims there is little doubt of his being a real person, but forgive me if I take their assertions of what is true with a sprinkle of seasoning. He might have been a Palestinian Christian soldier. He might have defied the Roman emperor by standing up for Christ. He might have been beheaded for that act too.

George is most famous for slaying a dragon, also not helping the whole "is he real?" question. He certainly wasn't English. Wikipedia tells me that on the patron saint stakes, he's a bit of a whore, being claimed for (deep breath): Aragon, Catalonia, England, Ethiopia, Georgia, Greece, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, and Russia. So George also represents the spirits of those regions too? Maybe George is a partial Thomas Painesque saint in that his country is (large chunks of) the world. He is also a Christian, so one hopes that his religion is to do good.

There's a fine line between being patriotic and jingoism, the former being a good thing. But patriotism still needs justification, rather than blindly following the cosmic happenstance of birthplace. Leave that to sports fans: I bear that cross with simultaneous pride and anguish as I was ejected into the world in time for the all too brief Bobby Robson-era Ipswich.

But I do love these islands. I love how liberal and confident we are as a people. I love pubs, Wodehouse and sarcasm. I love that we created two of the best things in the world, the NHS and cricket. Apart from wishing winter to be just a bit shorter, I even like the weather. And believe it or not, I like the cultural trappings of the Church of England, low key, mostly private religion concerned with charity, singing and, as Eddie Izzard said, cake and death.

But what of St George? What does his legend actually say about any of those things? Although narratives play an important role in cultural membership, national icons are often fatuous and irrelevant. St George is a symbol about whom we know almost nothing and whose own narrative represents almost nothing. St George is a third of the reasons for Henry V's rousing battle cry, which is now mostly appropriated by adverts for sporting events. Other than that, and our crusade-inspired flag, George has not much to do with being English in the 21st century.

So I suggest a new one: The Doctor, the shape-shifting time-travelling guardian of humanity from Doctor Who. In fact, the Doctor shares many striking similarities with St George. Both are dragon-slaying outsiders, fighting on foreign shores to protect their adopted people. But we know so much more about the Doctor, and thus can proudly and sensibly sing his praises. If we as a people demand collective narrative from legend, we might as well make it a ripping yarn.

The Doctor possesses so many traits of Englishness to which we should all aspire: defiance and good humour in the face of adversity; a sense of style that is at once individual, traditional and contemporary; a special brand of cheeky conservative rebelliousness; a humbling reliance on hot companions. Follow your spirit and upon this charge cry God for Harry, England and the Doctor!

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stePH

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And I approve:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/apr/21/st-george-patron-saint

I'm not English, but if I were, I would totally throw my support behind this!  :)

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Heradel

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So I've been thinking about River Song, and it's probably silly to write this when the episode airs in something like two hours (I seem to remember the BBC announcer saying something like 8:20ish), but I've looked silly here before (Which is why I carry a mod hammer. Fear it.).

So I guess there's spoilers, but, you know, not really.

First off, River Song seemed to hint a bit more towards being The Doctor's Irene Adler in the last episode, which is good and necessary in a foil. The Doctor can get a bit too omnipotent-seeming sometimes, and it's good to find out that he didn't know what the blue stabilizers were or that he didn't realize the TARDIS had a parking break (though they really need to keep the sound).

Anyway, I don't think she's his wife. I think she's supposed to be there when his regenerations are gone and can no longer flip the We Belong Dead switch back the right way. Actually, I kinda suspect she's the Doctor's Daughter after a proper regeneration, and the Doctor just doesn't quite know it yet.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 06:18:36 PM by Heradel »

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Alasdair5000

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That's actually looking pretty plausible, especially the idea of River as a slightly adversarial failsafe.  The Eiver stuff LOOKS like it may be the backbone of Moffat's entire run which, if it's true could be extraordinary.



Heradel

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That's actually looking pretty plausible, especially the idea of River as a slightly adversarial failsafe.  The Eiver stuff LOOKS like it may be the backbone of Moffat's entire run which, if it's true could be extraordinary.

Yeah, I pulled up the Doctor Who TARDIS page for Jenny after I wrote the post, and apparently it was Moffat who made her not dead. It certainly solves the only-two left problem (12 regenerations, 13 Doctors).

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Heradel

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Can I just say, and New Spoilers here, Very New, Very Spoilers.

Amy. Oh Amy. I love this companion so, so much. Best companion ever, I wish she just didn't cause the end of the universe.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 09:09:48 PM by Heradel »

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deflective

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my favourite theory on River Song is that it's Donna after a regeneration (assuming that she picked up more than just the Doctor's mental abilities when she became half time-lord.  this could tie into why no one remembers earth being moved).  River is much more like Donna in appearance & demeanor than the Doctor's daughter.  also, when Timothy Dalton was trying to bring gallifrey back there were two women behind him, one could be the Doctor's daughter and the other a regenerated Donna.

and there's an ick factor with the way that River acts if she turns out to be his daughter.  not as icky as if it turns out to be the doctor after a female regeneration tho =P


overall, i'm happy with the new season.  four of the first five episodes have been written by Moffat and he's been delivering quality.  a little worrisome that he's already repeating himself (brought back the angels, conversations with the fragment of a human consciousness after the person has died, Doctor having time-jumping relationships with someone from childhood to adulthood, etc) but they're solid concepts and i assume that he'll expand into new stuff once the season is established.

i really wanted the new companion to be young Amy.  it would have returned the series to a more whimsical feeling (which may or may not have actually existed, depending on how dependable my childhood memories are).



edit:
if you're going to start spoiling episodes that haven't aired yet please use the black-out, highlight to see tag.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 08:56:11 PM by deflective »



Heradel

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edit:
if you're going to start spoiling episodes that haven't aired yet please use the black-out, highlight to see tag.

Yes, sorry, doing now.

Edit: Though to be fair, it had aired, just not on BBC:A.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 09:33:39 PM by Heradel »

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deflective

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ah, ok.  i can understand wanting to talk about an episode you just saw.

you were looking at doctor webpages earlier so i was worried that you were spoiling a series plotline.  it's gonna be a little while before we get the latest episode over here so i can't comment on this week's yet.



Heradel

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ah, ok.  i can understand wanting to talk about an episode you just saw.

you were looking at doctor webpages earlier so i was worried that you were spoiling a series plotline.  it's gonna be a little while before we get the latest episode over here so i can't comment on this week's yet.

I actually try to avoid real spoilers, I was just looking up Jenny because it had been a while since I'd seen the episode. And then I re-watched that episode, and the Library ones, which kinda put me off them being the same.

I mean, they share a certain aspect of flirtiness, but so does the series. Plus Riversong's too genuinely shocked to be meeting the Doctor for the first time in his timeline for it to be Jenny. Which really sucks, because she's out there somewhere, and it's like she's been retconned out of existence. I mean seriously, it's like someone's parked Checkov's AT-AT outside of the TARDIS.

I don't think she's Donna either, because she doesn't recognize Donna and seems really sorry for her in the library when she realizes that she's the companion that can never remember.

And here comes the black: But she does seem to be there at the end. Though I really wouldn't be surprised if they shifted it to the Doctor's next male companion instead of the Doctor himself (Obviously Jack wouldn't fit the bill, though I really wish they'd do an episode with him in an interstitial phase between now and Face of Bo). Still, this was a good episode, and thank god they made the crack relevant to the plot instead of just glowing and annoying.

Also, nice call to Al about the duck pond (I forget if that was on the forums somewhere or twitter).

And on Amy, well, it was just her two-parter. And thank god she can just snog the damn guy in precisely the way Rose never could. Nine hundred years old and thicker than a nebula.

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Heradel

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my favourite theory on River Song is that it's Donna after a regeneration (assuming that she picked up more than just the Doctor's mental abilities when she became half time-lord.  this could tie into why no one remembers earth being moved).  River is much more like Donna in appearance & demeanor than the Doctor's daughter.  also, when Timothy Dalton was trying to bring gallifrey back there were two women behind him, one could be the Doctor's daughter and the other a regenerated Donna.

I always thought the main one of those two women was his mother.

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Sgarre1

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His mother and Romana seemed to be the two most popular guesses.  Leela was also suggested.



deflective

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his mother and a regenerated Donna aren't necessarily mutually exclusive...
seriously! didn't one of the early doctors mention something about his mother being closely tied to earth?
ok, so i don't remember the Dalton episode as well as i thought.  apparently the other figure wasn't even a woman.


I don't think [River]'s Donna either, because she doesn't recognize Donna and seems really sorry for her in the library when she realizes that she's the companion that can never remember.

i don't remember this as well as i'd like, but that ain't gonna stop me speculating.  Donna's timelord side is buried deeply inside her so the human side can survive so it's possible that she wouldn't carry many human memories after a regeneration.  she'd sort of be River's pupal stage.

and, since Donna's timelord side came from the Doctor, if River actually does hook up with him and then later turns out to be his mother then the Doctor would be one of those funky spontaneously self-creating entities.  yeah... totally possible.



Heradel

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Terry Pratchett on Doctor Who. I'd keep typing, but no one's reading this far anyway.

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Boggled Coriander

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Terry Pratchett on Doctor Who. I'd keep typing, but no one's reading this far anyway.

I've seen a couple of assorted Tom Baker and Sylvester McCoy episodes, but I never really got into Doctor Who.  (Dunno what I'm doing reading this thread then.)

Pratchett's opinion piece really makes me want to go change that.

Funny, ain't it?

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Sgarre1

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Terry Pratchet never ran into the term science-fantasy, I guess.  I mean, did he write one of these complaining about how FLASH GORDON isn't really sci-fi either?

Still, he's right about a lot of the writing being lazy, if thoroughly enjoyable.  I usually give it a pass because the show derives from (and still retains charming aspects of) a children's show (this rubs some people the wrong way).  I also see a lot of the lazy/corner-cutting plotting coming from them continuing to jam 2-episode (or 1 and a half episode) ideas into single episodes ("The Beast Below" and the recent WW-II dalek episode being good examples).  Even with those caveats, there's some real howlers.  But the show is so damn enjoyable most of the time, and has such a good heart (most of the time) that I can forgive it almost anything (don't get me started on "The End Of Time").