Author Topic: EP240: The Last McDougal’s  (Read 19577 times)

Swamp

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Reply #25 on: May 17, 2010, 03:48:50 PM
What I liked about this story most was the world described outside of the restaurant.  It reminded me of "The Machine Stops" by E.M. Forster (which, written in 1909, still blows me away in its forcast of technology, but that may take up a whole thread in itself).  It also indicated how significant the restaurant actually was.  Part of me thinks the title "The Last McDougal's" might have had a little more meaning if the place had actually burned down, but it still works as is.  Overall, I enjoyed the story.

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Reply #26 on: May 17, 2010, 03:52:12 PM
@swamp
I think the "last" was meant as is in "the last one". ;D



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Reply #27 on: May 17, 2010, 04:06:17 PM
WTF is with the kids and their horns? (did that sound a little "Git off mah lawn!" ?)

Heh, this made me think of Feng Burger, and I was going to say "well that's very cyclical isn't it" but Feng Burger was actually episode 2, not 1. :P

If you ask me, "Imperial" never happened (I know, nobody asked me  :P).  So, yes, it's very cyclical to begin and end with burgers.

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Swamp

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Reply #28 on: May 17, 2010, 04:27:08 PM
@swamp
I think the "last" was meant as is in "the last one". ;D

Yes, but the image of the last McDougal's going up in flames would be very powerful, especially after building up so much nostalgia for it.  I know that's not what the author was going for, but was just what came to mind when the fire started.

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gelee

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Reply #29 on: May 20, 2010, 09:29:58 AM
The main thing that really bugged me was the fire control system.  So, in the future, there are automated fire extinguishing systems which will smother the fire and SUFFOCATE anyone who still happens to be in the room?  Does that strike anyone else as being a monumentally stupid design?  I'd rather use an old fashioned fire extinguisher if the alternative is fairly likely to CAUSE my death.

They alread exist, and they're actually not uncommon in some applications.  We had them all over the place in the Air Force.  A siren goes off for about 30 seconds, and then the building floods with halon, and you'd better not be inside when it happens.

By the way, I enjoyed this one, and a fine reading for Steve's last week as host.  Interesting exploration of generational conflicts in a very plausible future U.S.  I've often wondered how long traditional social structures will be able to withstand the ability to communicate in audio and video, cheaply, in real time, with anyone, anywhere.  I think the author takes the effect to an extreme, but I guess that's part of the job. 



Listener

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Reply #30 on: May 20, 2010, 01:39:11 PM
The main thing that really bugged me was the fire control system.  So, in the future, there are automated fire extinguishing systems which will smother the fire and SUFFOCATE anyone who still happens to be in the room?  Does that strike anyone else as being a monumentally stupid design?  I'd rather use an old fashioned fire extinguisher if the alternative is fairly likely to CAUSE my death.

They alread exist, and they're actually not uncommon in some applications.  We had them all over the place in the Air Force.  A siren goes off for about 30 seconds, and then the building floods with halon, and you'd better not be inside when it happens.


They use them in radio and TV as well to minimize damage to the equipment. Although, really, a fire raging for 30 seconds before the halon goes off can still screw things up pretty bad.

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Reply #31 on: May 20, 2010, 01:50:45 PM
There are really fire control systems like that?  Well, no offense, that just sounds like a terrible design.  I guess I'll withdraw that complaint about the story, though, if such a bad design actually exists in the present day.



LPLFC1892

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Reply #32 on: May 21, 2010, 09:30:49 AM
Kia ora

Just listed, and it was a good one.

Really enjoyed the closing music by Yoko Kanno, it says the song is "Blue" but I cant find the sonmg on iTunes. Anyone tell me what album its on.

It Could be that its not available here in Aotearoa .

Dave A





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Reply #33 on: May 21, 2010, 02:22:16 PM
Storming out of a building when upset is a reasonable reaction. It takes a bit more of personal dysfunction to not automatically have the natural reaction of giving a person space when they do that. And from that point in the story, when the two old guys basically block her way and try to grab her, nothing the girl does seems to be out of some inherent irrationality; instead it all seems to be a perfectly reasonable adrenaline reaction from that point. The obsessive behavior and way not helpful comments from Dan plus the meddling help-to-surround-the-upset-girl behavior of the restaurant owner seemed to be fully responsible for provoking the girl's crazed reaction. You put someone in a corner like that and you're the one responsible for what happens, not them.

There's a reason why in tv and movies people always stand around for half a minute before going after the person who runs out the door upset. You try to physically restrain someone who is only trying to get away from you and your pretty much the instigator of any irrational behavior that follows from that person.

I completely disagree.  By her actions, Rack shows that she's a danger to herself, and her behavior is a cry for help, not a request for space.  Well-adjusted people don't just go and threaten to stab themselves with a knife.  Of course, we don't know exactly what's wrong with her, but she's definitely got lots of serious *issues*.  It's not wise or reasonable to let someone who might hurt themselves go run off to god-knows where, because the next time you see them might be them raped in an alley, over-dosing at some drug-house, in a bloody bathtub with a razor, or in jail somewhere.  It sounds like her Grandfather may have been the first person to actually care enough to go after her to make sure she was okay.

On the story itself, I felt it was a bit cliche and indulgent.  Overly dramatic and angsty teen is overly dramatic and angsty.  Nostalgic old dudes are nostalgic and old.  **yawn**   Finally, not knocking anyone that likes *that-restaurant that I shall not name*, but I think it's pretty sad that there's a whole generation of people out there where their idea of comfort food is basically crap.  I'm not a health-food nut either, but I guess I was lucky enough to have a mom that cooked at home.  My rule is that I'm allowed to have any junk food as long as I, or someone I know, has actually made it from scratch.



LPLFC1892

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Reply #34 on: May 22, 2010, 12:54:26 AM
Kia ora

The main thing that really bugged me was the fire control system.  So, in the future, there are automated fire extinguishing systems which will smother the fire and SUFFOCATE anyone who still happens to be in the room?  Does that strike anyone else as being a monumentally stupid design?  I'd rather use an old fashioned fire extinguisher if the alternative is fairly likely to CAUSE my death.

They alread exist, and they're actually not uncommon in some applications.  We had them all over the place in the Air Force.  A siren goes off for about 30 seconds, and then the building floods with halon, and you'd better not be inside when it happens.


They use them in radio and TV as well to minimize damage to the equipment. Although, really, a fire raging for 30 seconds before the halon goes off can still screw things up pretty bad.

In the old mainframe days we had fire protection systems like that in our computer rooms. That was over 30 years ago.

Dave A



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Reply #35 on: May 22, 2010, 03:53:58 AM
Speaking to an earlier post, the story this reminded me of was Hemmingway's "Clean Well-Lighted Place." thoughts?

I completely disagree.  By her actions, Rack shows that she's a danger to herself, and her behavior is a cry for help, not a request for space.  Well-adjusted people don't just go and threaten to stab themselves with a knife.  Of course, we don't know exactly what's wrong with her, but she's definitely got lots of serious *issues*.  It's not wise or reasonable to let someone who might hurt themselves go run off to god-knows where, because the next time you see them might be them raped in an alley, over-dosing at some drug-house, in a bloody bathtub with a razor, or in jail somewhere.  It sounds like her Grandfather may have been the first person to actually care enough to go after her to make sure she was okay.

On the story itself, I felt it was a bit cliche and indulgent.  Overly dramatic and angsty teen is overly dramatic and angsty.  Nostalgic old dudes are nostalgic and old.  **yawn**   Finally, not knocking anyone that likes *that-restaurant that I shall not name*, but I think it's pretty sad that there's a whole generation of people out there where their idea of comfort food is basically crap.  I'm not a health-food nut either, but I guess I was lucky enough to have a mom that cooked at home.  My rule is that I'm allowed to have any junk food as long as I, or someone I know, has actually made it from scratch.

idk, call me crazy, but the second the knife entered the scene, I knew she wouldn't stab herself. There's too much... defiance and strength to her persona. So I took it as a run of the mill angsty teenager empty threat tantrum. The writing led me down that road. Also no evidence was provided to identify the parenting as good or bad, and if it had been bad, Dan would have chimed on it. So I took it as teenage rebellion. Growing up with two sisters, the angst can be "overly dramatic and angsty," so I find the characters very believable. Furthermore, I've seen flight adrenaline make people do crazy things, trust.  The story moved slowly, but ended strongly. All in all a good toned piece for Steve's adieu.

sidenote: I'm a volunteer firefighter... yes halon systems are still used today.

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netwiz

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Reply #36 on: May 24, 2010, 02:52:46 AM
I thought this was a dreadfully weak story. The characters were cliched, the story was cliched, and all of it was set, incomprehensibly, in some future world. Why? What did it add? Old git that I am, I find myself more and more skipping the stories that could be set set anywhere. I like SF for a number of reasons that I'm sure I could articulate if I wanted to think about it, but I know I don't like it just to read any old story that happens to be set in the future. The future elements of the story had no real relevance to the theme.

Thanks Steve, for all you've done. Without wishing to sound too pretentious, I've appreciated your humanity.



davedoty

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Reply #37 on: May 24, 2010, 04:24:44 AM
All of it was set, incomprehensibly, in some future world. Why? What did it add? Old git that I am, I find myself more and more skipping the stories that could be set set anywhere. I like SF for a number of reasons that I'm sure I could articulate if I wanted to think about it, but I know I don't like it just to read any old story that happens to be set in the future. The future elements of the story had no real relevance to the theme.

Well, at least in this case, there is one reason it's set in the future.  It's clearly a "name changed for trademark reasons" stand-in for McDonald's, and there's more than one of those in the present, so it's set in a future where we're down to one.

Actually, two reasons.  Setting it in the future underscores that *every* generation feels this way about the one that came before.  The grandfather from this story could very well be the age of the granddaughter in today's world.  Set in today's world, it could be taken as a commentary on the internet generation.  Set in the future, it's a commentary on the way all older generations feel and deal with their kids.

I don't have strong feelings about the story itself, hence my only chiming in late in the thread, but I DO feel it has a reason to be set in the future.



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Reply #38 on: May 24, 2010, 06:23:59 AM
All of it was set, incomprehensibly, in some future world. Why? What did it add? Old git that I am, I find myself more and more skipping the stories that could be set set anywhere. I like SF for a number of reasons that I'm sure I could articulate if I wanted to think about it, but I know I don't like it just to read any old story that happens to be set in the future. The future elements of the story had no real relevance to the theme.

Well, at least in this case, there is one reason it's set in the future.  It's clearly a "name changed for trademark reasons" stand-in for McDonald's, and there's more than one of those in the present, so it's set in a future where we're down to one.

Actually, two reasons.  Setting it in the future underscores that *every* generation feels this way about the one that came before.  The grandfather from this story could very well be the age of the granddaughter in today's world.  Set in today's world, it could be taken as a commentary on the internet generation.  Set in the future, it's a commentary on the way all older generations feel and deal with their kids.

I don't have strong feelings about the story itself, hence my only chiming in late in the thread, but I DO feel it has a reason to be set in the future.

I agree with all of the above. But it's more than just "there's more than one McDonald's right now", but rather the fact that as a culture, we still consider fast food to be a relatively recent innovation. There are still people alive who predate it. Most old people, like the ones in this story, don't exactly predate fast food but they do predate its ubiquity. There are still a lot of people, even younger ones, who consider fast food to be a modern corruption of a vaguely remembered, idealized, past. This story needs to be set in a time when old people grew up with the modern fast food situation, and then the world moves on, and fast food itself becomes the vaguely remembered, idealized past.

In other words, the technology in this story may not be very futuristic, but the attitudes are; though as davedoty points out, the story is trying to show that the more things change (attitude wise) the more they stay the same. One important thing this story is trying to say is "in the future, people will still be people". To do that, it needs to be set in the future.

I



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Reply #39 on: May 26, 2010, 01:51:20 AM
Something didn't quite click with this one, for me.  I liked the world they were in, though there were a few "Hey, lookit at this future thing!", namely, Dan mentioning his husband, $200 for burgers, "We'll never see prices like $10/gallon again", etc.  They kind of stuck out, as plausible as they were, not sure why.  The Dan/Rack situation has been done many times, and I don't think it was done especially better this time, nor was the "Things change quickly" situation.  Lots of good staging, but the actors were only mediocre. 



Oh, and I want a Moogle MacDougal. 

And count me as another Dr Demento fan who got a HUGE laugh out of Steve's intro.

I haven't listened to the ep 241 yet, but I hope that Mur's audio setup is as crisp and clean as Steve's.  That's something that I've always admired about his podcasts, they're clean as a whistle.  Nothing against Alistair, but his, along with some folks over at Pod Castle's, audio can be a bit murky, which I find disappointing if you're going to be a host.  DKT's and Norm Sherman's audio is pretty clean as well. 

But I digress.  Good note to go out on, Steve, and I hope you host again soon, free from producer stress. 

The cow says "Mooooooooo"


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Reply #40 on: May 26, 2010, 01:56:02 AM
The way things are going by 2050, if not way sooner, Gramps is gonna have to take his snotty kid to such a place blind folded and be admitted only if he knows the secret handshake. The food police are steadily moving in that direction as we speak.

I disagree.  There's quite a bit of movement towards homecooked meals made with locally grown and sold food, as well as a resurgence in victory gardens and hobby farms.  I'm not going to preach, I had a Double Down from KFC the other day and loved it, but I applaud the movement, and everyone should know how to cook certain basic things, and should be able to recognize the difference between high and low quality food when they see/taste it.

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wakela

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Reply #41 on: May 26, 2010, 02:42:30 AM
When I realized it was set in a McDonalds I braced myself for the standard anti-corporate, anti-fast food, anti-marketing that we usually get when the name comes up.  But I was pleasantly surprised that it was treated with affection.  The little details of the water droplets on the paper cups, paper wrappers, etc. were very appetizing, and  I'm glad my weekly visit to the golden arches is only day after tomorrow.  Steve, you have nothing to be ashamed of in being a McD's fan. 

Aside from that the story was pretty blah.  Are rebellious teenagers universal?  They rebel a little in Japan, but it's pretty harmless.  Did they 200 years ago?  Do they rebel in China, India, the Middle East?   I'm not saying they don't, I'm saying I don't know, and that I'm not convinced that I should take their existence as a given.   I think a more interesting story would be about how the nature of the rebellion changes in the future.  What if my daughter rebels, but I still need her to tell me how to work the VR goggles and the home genetics lab? 



l33tminion

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Reply #42 on: May 26, 2010, 06:44:58 PM
I loved how the story captured the nature of nostalgia so well.  It was amusing how the grandfather goes on about how familiar the McDougal's is, how it's just as he remembered, as it becomes increasingly clear to the reader that the store in the story is really dramatically different from the corporate fast food the grandfather had growing up.



CryptoMe

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Reply #43 on: May 28, 2010, 02:29:23 PM
My rule is that I'm allowed to have any junk food as long as I, or someone I know, has actually made it from scratch.

An admirable goal! But I could never do that until someone teaches me to make potato chips and cheesy poofs from scratch  ;D



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Reply #44 on: June 14, 2010, 04:52:46 PM
A little late replying to this.

First of all, best intro and outro by Steve *ever*. I too remember that Dr. Demento skit. That really took me back. And ending with the song Blue was an awesome choice. I tear up to that song a lot; it's a perfect way to usher Steve out gracefully and poignantly.

As for the story, I liked it. I get the emotions behind it. As my son gets older, I'm growing more aware that what I've always take for granted, he's seeing for the first time. I remember when Michael Jackson died, and everyone was going ballistic, my son watched the videos with me and kept asking me, "Who's that? Who's that?" To him, Michael Jackson will just be another singer.

If you want to be reminded of your own mortality, have a kid, I guess.

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Reply #45 on: June 21, 2010, 05:32:52 PM
A little late replying to this.

First of all, best intro and outro by Steve *ever*. I too remember that Dr. Demento skit. That really took me back. And ending with the song Blue was an awesome choice. I tear up to that song a lot; it's a perfect way to usher Steve out gracefully and poignantly.

As for the story, I liked it. I get the emotions behind it. As my son gets older, I'm growing more aware that what I've always take for granted, he's seeing for the first time. I remember when Michael Jackson died, and everyone was going ballistic, my son watched the videos with me and kept asking me, "Who's that? Who's that?" To him, Michael Jackson will just be another singer.

If you want to be reminded of your own mortality, have a kid, I guess.

I was thinking about that too, but in reference to September 11th.  For a kid born now, that'll be almost ancient history.



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Reply #46 on: June 22, 2010, 02:09:38 PM
I was thinking about that too, but in reference to September 11th.  For a kid born now, that'll be almost ancient history.

As xkcd's pointed out, it already is even for kids alive and sentient now.

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Reply #47 on: June 23, 2010, 04:50:08 PM
I was thinking about that too, but in reference to September 11th.  For a kid born now, that'll be almost ancient history.

As xkcd's pointed out, it already is even for kids alive and sentient now.


Wow, good comic, thanks for the link!



LaShawn

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Reply #48 on: June 23, 2010, 04:54:18 PM
xkcd is always good.

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