Author Topic: EP244: Non-Zero Probabilities  (Read 30917 times)

KenK

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Reply #25 on: June 20, 2010, 02:36:50 PM
@ deflective
But cliches are part of the art form though. Trying to build a totally original backstory for each character and situation would make films last forever. Written and spoken sci fi, where you can have interior monologues, memories, dreams, flashbacks and so forth makes cliches less necessary.



davedoty

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Reply #26 on: June 20, 2010, 05:19:58 PM
To me, stories about characters who simply take everything happening around them in stride, and think "cool!" and go about their day lack a certain conflict.  They can be entertaining on occassion (I recall a Clive Barker story about an atheist who refused to be rattled by his ghostly stalker), but a steady diet of it would become unsatisfying pretty quickly.



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Reply #27 on: June 20, 2010, 06:07:26 PM
To me, stories about characters who simply take everything happening around them in stride, and think "cool!" and go about their day lack a certain conflict.  They can be entertaining on occassion (I recall a Clive Barker story about an atheist who refused to be rattled by his ghostly stalker), but a steady diet of it would become unsatisfying pretty quickly.

If it's the story I'm thinking of ("The Yattering and Jack"), I thought the emphasis was less on the non-responsive Jack and more about the frustrations the Yattering experienced trying to work his mojo.  Except for the MINOR SPOILER unfortunate kitty killings (which is very much a hard limit topic for me), it was the reactions of the Yattering that made the story for me.

I'm not entirely certain how I feel about "Non-Zero Probabilities" (apart from my very negative reaction to the description of the cat...hard limit, doncha know).  Parts of it appeared to me to describe a world that was a bit "better" in that people are actually taking the time to talk to each other now and are (maybe) being a bit enriched by the experience, and yet there's this whole movement to kind of change world karma because things aren't as they used to be.  Or am I totally misreading things again?

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deflective

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Reply #28 on: June 21, 2010, 10:56:46 AM
i was thinking of The Yattering and Jack as well.  it's a fun ride and i recommend it to anyone who thinks they might like it.  for people ok with spoilers:  Jack is not an atheist, his parents sold his soul to hell and he's well aware of his situation.  his placid attitude toward The Yattering is a considered tactic he uses to torment his tormentor.  but, that aside, Jack dismissing every supernatural phenomena that happens is pretty much the exact opposite of the active interest i was talking about.


Trying to build a totally original backstory for each character and situation would make films last forever.

i'm not sure why you read my comment to say that this is only a film trend, it's in written specific too.  but there are modern films where the main characters are proactive & investigative and drive the story (contact & flat liners jump to mind, kinda interesting that i wasn't really a fan of either). 



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Reply #29 on: June 21, 2010, 05:23:19 PM
Wouldn't that make things worse?  If belief defines the world, then believing in order and inherent good in the cosmic plan will make one's life more pleasant than believing in chaos.

I was thinking of it differently. NYC was already RULED by chaos, so obviously those gods were in charge, already.

I understand that, but praying to those gods will make them more real, and what good is a god of chaos who does not sow chaos?  Since this world is ruled by what you believe in, you should do your best to believe in order if you want the world to be orderly.



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Reply #30 on: June 21, 2010, 05:27:38 PM
as an example, Meryl Streep got an oscar nomination for some cookie-cutter chick flick, the devil wears prada.  there was no real chance that she'd win with that role but she elevated her character beyond the writing and that spoke volumes about her as an actress.  she deserved the nod of a nomination.

Or when Avatar was nominated for Best Picture.  I doubt it ever had any real chance, but the Academy wanted to increase Oscar ratings.  I haven't seen it because it was overyhyped and looked very cookie cutter, but even those I know who LOVED it said that the spec fx were fantastic but the story was low quality.



KenK

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Reply #31 on: June 23, 2010, 12:32:14 AM
Quote
...the spec fx were fantastic but the story was low quality.

That's pretty much true of all big studio films anymore, even when they have an excellent novel, story, etc, to work from.  If you want excellent quality stories and acting that transcend 1960s era cheesy props and fx you have watch old Twilight Zone reruns on the net. Very sad to note the cultural wasteland of modern America.



Talia

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Reply #32 on: June 23, 2010, 01:55:19 AM
Quote
...the spec fx were fantastic but the story was low quality.

That's pretty much true of all big studio films anymore, even when they have an excellent novel, story, etc, to work from.  If you want excellent quality stories and acting that transcend 1960s era cheesy props and fx you have watch old Twilight Zone reruns on the net. Very sad to note the cultural wasteland of modern America.

When most people spend a bunch of money to go out on the town, they want to be entertained, not necesarily be recipients of art.

There's still plenty of quality filmmaking to be found, particularly in independent and smaller films. "cultural wasteland" seems like hyperbole to me. Now, POP culture is a wasteland, but it always has been. There's still plenty of non-trashy culture to be found and appreciated in the nooks and crannies, though.



KenK

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Reply #33 on: June 23, 2010, 03:22:22 AM
I don't know where you live Talia but here are my options this day for new release in-theatre film "entertainment".
Toy Story 2, Karate Kid, A-Team, Get Him To The Greek, Shrek Forever After, Prince of Persia, Jonah Hex, Killers, Iron Man 2, and Marmaduke.  ::)

Mostly I scour the few remaining video rental stores, or browse through Hulu or Netflix to see discontinued TV shows and classic movies. Today's game isn't worth the candle, IMHO. 



Talia

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Reply #34 on: June 23, 2010, 03:42:16 AM
I don't know where you live Talia but here are my options this day for new release in-theatre film "entertainment".
Toy Story 2, Karate Kid, A-Team, Get Him To The Greek, Shrek Forever After, Prince of Persia, Jonah Hex, Killers, Iron Man 2, and Marmaduke.  ::)

Mostly I scour the few remaining video rental stores, or browse through Hulu or Netflix to see discontinued TV shows and classic movies. Today's game isn't worth the candle, IMHO. 

Well in their defense, Iron Man 2 was totally awesome, and I've heard TS3 is quite good too.

Not American cinema, but - near me, one of the theatres is playing Jean-Pierre Jeunet's (Amelie, City of lost Children) latest film, 'MicMacs'. I donno bout you but I'll pretty much see anything he makes. (and I will challenge to a throwdown anyone who sez 'Amelie' isnt a great movie :P).

Also, 'Solitary Man' with Michael Douglas, which is supposed to be good (but I don't know much about it).




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Reply #35 on: June 23, 2010, 04:48:24 PM
Quote
...the spec fx were fantastic but the story was low quality.

That's pretty much true of all big studio films anymore, even when they have an excellent novel, story, etc, to work from.  If you want excellent quality stories and acting that transcend 1960s era cheesy props and fx you have watch old Twilight Zone reruns on the net. Very sad to note the cultural wasteland of modern America.

When most people spend a bunch of money to go out on the town, they want to be entertained, not necesarily be recipients of art.

There's still plenty of quality filmmaking to be found, particularly in independent and smaller films. "cultural wasteland" seems like hyperbole to me. Now, POP culture is a wasteland, but it always has been. There's still plenty of non-trashy culture to be found and appreciated in the nooks and crannies, though.

Yeah, indie films tend to appeal to me much more these days.  500 Days of Summer was really good, as was Up in the Air. 

It's not that I dislike all major studio films--I'll definitely see Toy Story 3 and I'll probably like it.  But I'm not expecting it to be the best movie I've ever seen.  I have certain expectations for the plot and characters that Pixar generally does not have any trouble meeting, and then I'll probably like it.  Toy Story and Toy Story 2 both had decent plots, a clear goal, interesting and unique characters (if not particularly deep). 



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Reply #36 on: June 26, 2010, 05:56:48 AM
While we're on the subject, I want to know in what universe it makes sense to have a movie about a kid in China learning Kung Fu from Jackie Chan, and call it The Karate Kid.

That's basted in wrong sauce.

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Reply #37 on: June 26, 2010, 08:13:42 AM
The universe in which the worth of every movie is valued solely in the potential dollars it may generate by referencing already proven commodities in a desperate attempt to cover both a lack of creativity and a lack of belief in your own product?  That one....



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Reply #38 on: June 29, 2010, 01:47:58 PM
The universe in which the worth of every movie is valued solely in the potential dollars it may generate by referencing already proven commodities in a desperate attempt to cover both a lack of creativity and a lack of belief in your own product?  That one....

FTW



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Reply #39 on: July 15, 2010, 05:04:36 PM
I enjoyed the story, much more than I expected to.  I was all prepared to dislike it because the root idea was so completely silly.  However the exploration of people's differing reactions to the phenomenon, capped by the host's Bull Durham quote, captured the attention of my pragmatic side.  If it seems to work, why not?  Does it really matter if it makes no sense, if it really works?



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Reply #40 on: July 19, 2010, 03:09:48 PM
I listened to it on Clarkesworld and pretty much enjoyed it here too.

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Reply #41 on: August 14, 2010, 11:21:07 PM
I really enjoyed this story and immediately started thinking about forwarding it to a close friend of mine. I enjoyed the premise and the setting, as I am someone who recently lived in and moved away from NYC. It got me thinking about the significance of my own daily rituals.



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Reply #42 on: August 25, 2010, 06:31:29 PM
I thought this was going to go somewhere, but it felt like a series of scenes that never pay off. I liked Kate Baker's reading very much and I like the set-up. However, I don't think this short story would have convinced me to try her novel if I had not already read it.