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Author Topic: PC111 / 641: And Their Lips Rang With The Sun  (Read 20336 times)

alllie

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Reply #25 on: July 04, 2010, 01:04:43 AM
Loved the intro and information about Cahokia. Here is the wikipedia entry for the game mentioned, Chunkey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunkey

There are pictures included. I couldn't visualize the target stones till I saw the pictures.

Makes me wonder if the memory of football will outlast our greatest art.

The story didn't quite engage me but maybe that's just me.




Listener

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Reply #26 on: July 04, 2010, 02:04:07 PM
Good writing, and I enjoy the concept of framing a story within another story, but I didn't like this story as a whole. I think a lot more could've been done with the fact that the dancers actually make the sun rise for real.

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Scattercat

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Reply #27 on: July 04, 2010, 11:19:19 PM
I liked the parthenogenetic dancers, but I was absolutely convinced that the moon boy (Uff?  Eff?) was a girl until we actually got to the moon temple.  I guess if I knew anything about Arabic, I'd not have had that confusion.  I liked the story overall, but it wasn't my very favorite one ever.  I feel like it went on a bit too long in the name of establishing Lam's garrulous nature.

(And I heard the "I am still very strong" as a threat, but a joking threat, i.e. the young man is hardly going to leave now that he's found his long-lost birth mother and she's trying to keep up her tough-talking facade and not break down crying and being "weak" in front of her boy.  It seemed perfectly natural to me, given the type of person Lam is.)

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rotheche

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Reply #28 on: July 06, 2010, 04:25:49 AM
That's the way I heard it too - not a real threat, just a way of Lam keeping up her facade as she'd done all throughout telling the story.

I enjoyed both story and reading.  The story was slow-paced at the start, but had a lyrical sort of feel to it that matched the pacing: the reading worked just about perfectly as well.




Wilson Fowlie

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Reply #29 on: July 07, 2010, 03:14:41 AM
Yeah, that last line made me happy.  I could totally imagine the mischievous smile on Lam's face as she let her son know there was no way she was going to let him leave.

I really enjoyed this story - for me, it got better and better as it went on and I was grinning like an idiot by the ending.

As to the feedback: Regards, Dave!  :)

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DKT

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Reply #30 on: July 07, 2010, 03:29:14 PM
As to the feedback: Regards, Dave!  :)

En garde, sir!  ;)


amalmohtar

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Reply #31 on: July 07, 2010, 03:58:52 PM
Hi there, forumites! I'm so grateful for these comments -- thank you so much, all of you, for sharing your thoughts.

I kind of didn't want to chime in at all, since auctorial intent doesn't count for very much with me, and I love to see how people react to a story without any kind of establishing context -- that said, I really wanted to address this comment:

 
I was absolutely convinced that the moon boy (Uff?  Eff?) was a girl until we actually got to the moon temple.  I guess if I knew anything about Arabic, I'd not have had that confusion. 

I'm glad that Scattercat was convinced Qaf was a girl; it was important to me to keep the stranger's gender hidden because it was irrelevant to Lam's attraction, and I certainly didn't want people to assume the stranger was a man because of Lam's attraction. My anti-heteronormativity, let me show it to you! She would have reacted in precisely the same way had she revealed the stranger as a woman. In some ways I feel there was a missed opportunity here, in that I would have loved to foreground a romantic same-sex relationship (especially given the close quarters in which the sun women live, isolated from most anyone outside the temple), but I opted to go for the reversal of stereotypical gender roles instead, figuring I'd have more space to flesh out different things about this world when I build it into a novel. >.>
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 04:04:59 PM by amalmohtar »



ElectricPaladin

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Reply #32 on: July 07, 2010, 06:33:14 PM
I also didn't know Qaf was a boy or a girl, and I definitely caught that it was meant to be ambiguous and not totally relevant to Lam's attraction. Excellent work, there! And while a lesbian relationship would have been interesting, I agree that the generational aspect of the story more than makes up for that lost opportunity.

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Wilson Fowlie

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Reply #33 on: July 07, 2010, 06:44:33 PM
I wonder if there'll ever be a day when a relationship is not made more (or less) interesting by the sexes of its members.

"People commonly use the word 'procrastination' to describe what they do on the Internet. It seems to me too mild to describe what's happening as merely not-doing-work. We don't call it procrastination when someone gets drunk instead of working." - Paul Graham


ElectricPaladin

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Reply #34 on: July 07, 2010, 06:47:32 PM
I wonder if there'll ever be a day when a relationship is not made more (or less) interesting by the sexes of its members.

I hope so.

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Scattercat

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Reply #35 on: July 08, 2010, 03:58:33 AM
Given that this is a world where women can get pregnant by eating almonds in the sunlight, it wouldn't even be too difficult to justify someone getting knocked up from a same-sex one night stand.  (Or maybe they BOTH get knocked up.  Twins from separate mothers!)  ;D

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ElectricPaladin

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Reply #36 on: July 08, 2010, 07:01:01 PM
(Or maybe they BOTH get knocked up.  Twins from separate mothers!)  ;D

I dare you to write that.

That's right, I dare you.

The gauntlet has been thrown down, b%@*h!

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kibitzer

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Reply #37 on: July 11, 2010, 08:24:55 AM
...figuring I'd have more space to flesh out different things about this world when I build it into a novel. >.>

Awesome! I'd so love to hear more of this world.

Also, welcome to the forum and gratz on your PodCastle Flash entries. I love it when authors visit the forums. Thanks for taking the time.


kibitzer

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Reply #38 on: July 11, 2010, 08:25:36 AM
I liked the parthenogenetic dancers...

Not sure where you got that from. Was that implied? Not when I listened.


Scattercat

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Reply #39 on: July 11, 2010, 02:22:20 PM
I liked the parthenogenetic dancers...

Not sure where you got that from. Was that implied? Not when I listened.

Women become spontaneously pregnant with the Sun's daughters, and the Sun is herself described as feminine.  No mortal men or mystical men involved at all.  This isn't a science-y story, but when we see that sort of thing in nature (there's one lizard species that is well-known for it, iirc), it's called parthenogenesis.  I was indulging in a sort of reverse metaphor, describing a mystic/allegorical process by comparing it to a scientific fact.

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kibitzer

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Reply #40 on: July 12, 2010, 03:55:51 AM
Yup, I know the word thanks, was wondering whether you came to that conclusion by implication or whether it was stated in the story. It definitely fits with the mythos but my recollection is that where the girls came from wasn't mentioned (well, apart from the dancers, obviously).

Although now I think about it, it would also fit with the other dancer's distaste at one of their number becoming pregnant.

Anyway, I'd have to listen again to be sure. No big deal.


Scattercat

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Reply #41 on: July 12, 2010, 04:25:15 AM
It definitely fits with the mythos but my recollection is that where the girls came from wasn't mentioned (well, apart from the dancers, obviously).

There was a line about how various women would get an urge for almonds and go eat them while standing in the noon sun (so high that there were no shadows.)  Then they'd get pregnant and have a kid with a sun-letter on her forehead. 

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Unblinking

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Reply #42 on: July 12, 2010, 04:50:48 PM
(And I heard the "I am still very strong" as a threat, but a joking threat, i.e. the young man is hardly going to leave now that he's found his long-lost birth mother and she's trying to keep up her tough-talking facade and not break down crying and being "weak" in front of her boy.  It seemed perfectly natural to me, given the type of person Lam is.)

Okay, I could buy it as a joke threat in that manner.  Fair enough.   :)



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Reply #43 on: July 12, 2010, 04:53:20 PM
Hi there, forumites! I'm so grateful for these comments -- thank you so much, all of you, for sharing your thoughts.

I kind of didn't want to chime in at all, since auctorial intent doesn't count for very much with me, and I love to see how people react to a story without any kind of establishing context -- that said, I really wanted to address this comment:

 
I was absolutely convinced that the moon boy (Uff?  Eff?) was a girl until we actually got to the moon temple.  I guess if I knew anything about Arabic, I'd not have had that confusion. 

I'm glad that Scattercat was convinced Qaf was a girl; it was important to me to keep the stranger's gender hidden because it was irrelevant to Lam's attraction, and I certainly didn't want people to assume the stranger was a man because of Lam's attraction. My anti-heteronormativity, let me show it to you! She would have reacted in precisely the same way had she revealed the stranger as a woman. In some ways I feel there was a missed opportunity here, in that I would have loved to foreground a romantic same-sex relationship (especially given the close quarters in which the sun women live, isolated from most anyone outside the temple), but I opted to go for the reversal of stereotypical gender roles instead, figuring I'd have more space to flesh out different things about this world when I build it into a novel. >.>

I'm glad you stopped by!  I always enjoy the author chiming in.  Authorial intent is certainly not the most important interpretation--once it's out in the wild there's no calling it back.  But it is interesting to know what the author intended, even if my view conflicts with it.

Also, I think it worked well as the role reversal rather than the same-sex attraction.



Fenrix

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Reply #44 on: July 13, 2010, 12:18:25 AM
The story and reading was great. I downloaded this one and readied it for a road trip this past weekend based upon how much I enjoyed the author's flash entries. I'm going to have to search for the honey book that was pimped in the outro. Or the author could just pimp it here so we don't have to search >.>


I was kind of confused by the intro, though.  If I hadn't known what was coming, I think I would've been thrown by all the description of Cahokia, the ancient pre-Columbus American empire, prior to a story set in an ancient fantasy Arabic culture. 

I didn't want to talk about the stuff Dave mentioned in the outro, cause I thought that would be better after the story, and I was sort of free-associating "sun, sun...hmmm" and my brain landed on Cahokia.  They show a short film at the Interpretive Center (you can see it on the website, too) called "Cahokia: City of the Sun."  And I thought, "well, the connection is very, very tenuous, but more people should know about Cahokia."  So I went with it.

I'm a wanderer in from Pseudopod, so I'm used to Alasdair slamming me into a story within a minute and giving up a little philosophy in the outro. The style is different over here, so it could be I'm being resistant to change. I'll let you know once I'm sure. But I had some issues with the intro and outro.

First problem with the intro was not identifying where Cahokia was located. With as much time as was dedicated to the culture, I have no idea where it was located. I was trying to locate it in Texas or the Yucutan, when I think maybe it's somewhere near St Louis? Then my second and biggest problem was the intro set me up to expect a different location for the story. I was thinking mound people midwest with a pre-colonial explorer who was "just passing through". I was predisposed to a different culture, so it really jangled me when they were talking about food preparation that was clearly middle eastern. I got kicked out of the story for a good minute while I readjusted my bearing.

The outro portion discussing the Arabic language was good. But then the outro went for another five minutes or more. The reader feedback (which not having listened to either the story or been to the forums) felt like the whole thread was being summarized for me. Most of the editorial portions didn't really grab me, and I could try to define it a bit more concisely if that would be helpful.

I hope this has been constructive feedback, as I'm not trying to be the curmudgeon from the scary room walking over to kick down your sandcastles.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 12:26:21 AM by Fenrix »

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DKT

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Reply #45 on: July 13, 2010, 04:10:00 AM
As requested: The Honey Month:)

As for the outro - yeah, sorry that was your first one! They don't usually run that long - although they do regularly feature feedback, and that episode, we were trying to do several different things. The next one should be at least a little bit shorter.

Anyway, glad you wandered in! Hope you'll stay for a while and check out some of the other stories from both the past and future :)


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Reply #46 on: July 13, 2010, 04:55:55 PM
Anyway, glad you wandered in! Hope you'll stay for a while and check out some of the other stories from both the past and future :)

Where do I sign up for stories from the future?  Silly me, I was waiting for them to be posted in the present.  :)



ellecee

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Reply #47 on: July 16, 2010, 02:02:10 AM
I really loved this story overall. My only two complaints were that the beginning was a little overly descriptive and I found my mind wandering away in boredom. Also, at the end the mechanics of the one-sided monologue took me out of the story a bit and lessened the impact of the reveal of the long-lost son. That being said, I found it to be a moving, original story and even with the lessened impact, the end still made water come out of my face a little. I love the concept of the sun-girl and moon-boy finding love even if for only one night. I also appreciate the happy ending after being set up for an ambiguous one. I'm all for ambiguous endings, but its nice to get a happy ending once in a while.



Unblinking

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Reply #48 on: July 16, 2010, 01:53:34 PM
the end still made water come out of my face a little.

You might want to get that checked out, it could be a sign of a major leak.  ;)



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Reply #49 on: July 16, 2010, 04:09:10 PM
I really liked this one I loved the beginning but the end was great I love that fact that he came to find his mother.