2010 politics

[Zorag]

There are hateful people on both sides.  Stating that your goal is to limit Obama to one term is no different than when the same was said of Bush.  Take away your personal opinions of either man and you will see that the verbal assaults are similar.

[Talia]

Why is gridlock a good thing? Don't you want the goverment to have some chance of being effective at anything ever?

Lack of action from the Federal government may very well be the best thing for us. Sure, they can't actively help. But they also can't actively harm.

It's not like state governments are any better.

Although, I'm pretty happy with the way CT elections just went, so.. heh.

But meh. I'd rather have a functional federal goverment where everyone is united with the common goal of getting things done rather than bitching at each other.

I don't care much about state rights one way or another.

[Talia]

Their are hateful people on both sides.  Stating that your goal is to limit Obama to one term is no different than when the same was said of Bush.  Take away your personal opinions of either man and you will see that the verbal assaults are similar.

And the people who said that about Bush were not being effective statespeople either. I wasn't trying to draw comparisons, just say they really aren't helping anyone.

Except for that rabid, mouthbreathing segment of the population who are having coronaries because they can't stand having a black man at the helm. 

[Zorag]

Why is gridlock a good thing? Don't you want the goverment to have some chance of being effective at anything ever?

Lack of action from the Federal government may very well be the best thing for us. Sure, they can't actively help. But they also can't actively harm.

It's not like state governments are any better.

Although, I'm pretty happy with the way CT elections just went, so.. heh.

But meh. I'd rather have a functional federal goverment where everyone is united with the common goal of getting things done rather than bitching at each other.

I don't care much about state rights one way or another.

We are a varied collection of individuals.  A one-size-fits-all solution will not work.  Our country was founded with a belief in states rights.  Contrary to the way Lincoln brilliantly spun it, the Civil War was not about slavery, it was about states rights.

[Zorag]

Except for that rabid, mouthbreathing segment of the population who are having coronaries because they can't stand having a black man at the helm. 

I don't see why race has to be brought into this.  I despise the President for his beliefs, I need no other reason.  I would go as far as to call him and those that believe like him evil.  Up until the Rand Paul comments, no one had cast any dispersions on any individuals.  You feel free to insult him for something that you admit he is not, yet feel no qualms in calling out others for doing the same thing when it is done to someone you like.  You are a hypocrite.  I am done with this conversation.

[Talia]

While I see your point, I'm not entirely sure what you want. I mean, we are one country. You almost seem to be arguing in favor of things being run more like 50 mini-countries. (although if we did that then built a wall between certain southern states and the rest of us, that'd work out OK :p). Well, I mean you said want you wanted, but I just don't really understand why its so important to you. After all there's no guarantee your state goverment wont proceed to act like a bunch of douches, either. (Referring back to CT again - John Rowland, I'm lookin' at you!)

[DKT]

Except for that rabid, mouthbreathing segment of the population who are having coronaries because they can't stand having a black man at the helm.  

I don't see why race has to be brought into this.  I despise the President for his beliefs, I need no other reason.  I would go as far as to call him and those that believe like him evil.  Up until the Rand Paul comments, no one had cast any dispersions on any individuals.  You feel free to insult him for something that you admit he is not, yet feel no qualms in calling out others for doing the same thing when it is done to someone you like.  You are a hypocrite.  I am done with this conversation.

Zorag, you started off saying earlier in this thread stating that you weren't attacking the president, but now you're calling him (and essentially - me) evil. And you're literally calling other people names. If you do come back to this conversation, please try to tone it down.

[Talia]

I just want to say I do apologize for causing offense, wasn't intended. And while you are correct for calling me on the Rand Paul comment, I do feel that race is very much an issue among many of the Obama detractors, particularly among that sect known as the Tea Party, so I stand by that comment.

That's all. I do apologize for coming off as uncivil if I have done so in any way.
I will also leave the thread now so keep on keepin' on with other commenters if you care to. I don't mean to ruin a good thread just because I have vehemently different political views from any given person.

[Zorag]

I will not back down from my statement.  I see too many people receiving so-called aid from the government that have been harmed by it.  By disincentivizing personal growth and acheivement, the government does great harm.  In my book, that is evil.  I brought that up to defend my feelings about the President.  I will discuss things from a rational point of view, but I will not do so when another person is using  underhanded tactics.

[Zorag]

Where did I call someone a name?  I stated a fact.   Wait, I did call Rand Paul a lunatic, sorry about that.

[eytanz]

Where did I call someone a name?  I stated a fact.   Wait, I did call Rand Paul a lunatic, sorry about that.

You called Talia a hypocrite.

And you didn't just call your president evil, you called "those who believe like him evil". Which includes quite a few of the people you are talking to.

Plus, there is a big difference between stating that someone is causing evil and calling someone evil. The latter implies that you think the president (and those who believe like him) are *seeking* to cause harm; that the president's motivation is to harm Americans. I'm not an American, but quite a few of my friends who are voted for, and believe in, your president. I don't believe any of my friends wishes harm upon any American - they may very well be causing it by being mistaken about how to go about doing things, but that's a totally different debate.

[DKT]

Where did I call someone a name?  I stated a fact.   Wait, I did call Rand Paul a lunatic, sorry about that.

You called Talia a hypocrite.

This is what I was referring to. But you also said:

I would go as far as to call [the president] and those that believe like him evil.

Which, you know, isn't helping any, and is rude. Please try to be polite.

[Zorag]

I stand by my statement.  I am also not a racist.

[Zorag]

If I say I think Bush is evil for using our military to settle a family grudge, among other actions would that cause a problem?  Because I believe that as well.

[eytanz]

I stand by my statement.  I am also not a racist.

No one called you a racist.

I do, however, call you a troll. You seem to have created this thread for the sole reason of insulting those who disagree with you and passing moral judgement on a large swath of your country. I anticipate your response to me will be either leaving in a huff, or an angry rant. If you must choose on of these two, then I recommend it be the former, as the latter will just prove me right.

I am, however, not locking the thread because I want to give you the chance to prove me wrong. I don't give a damn what you say about the president of the USA, but I do care about what you say about other forumites. I'll let you figure out for yourself what sort of response may convince me that you are here to participate productively in the forum.

[eytanz]

If I say I think Bush is evil for using our military to settle a family grudge, among other actions would that cause a problem?  Because I believe that as well.

If you said that everyone who believes in Bush's presidency is evil, then yes, that would cause the same kind of problem.

Presidents are fair game. Other forumites are not.

[DKT]

If I say I think Bush is evil for using our military to settle a family grudge, among other actions would that cause a problem?  Because I believe that as well.

You're missing the point: you're not just calling an abstract political figure evil; you specifically called people on this forum evil if they agree with said political figure. Stop doing that.

And I do not care how close you stand to your statements; I do care that you're respectful to people on this forum, and that people are respectful for you. (Talia never did call you a racist, but she did apologize for giving offense.)

ETA: eytanz beat me to this, but it doesn't hurt to read some things twice.

[Zorag]

Talia's post was no apology.  I am sorry for saying that those who belive like President Obama are evil.  I will ammend it to politicians that believe as he does are.

[Bdoomed]

Oh yes, us who agree with what Obama is doing are evil.  We are just evil people, and we hate America, and hate people.  We hate people so much that we like the idea of letting those who need insurance get insurance.  We are so evil that we think being nice to people is a good idea.

[Zorag]

This thread was started as commentary on the political landscape.  I admit that I inserted my personal belefs by cheering for gridlock and then later stating my personal beliefs about the President.  Please split the argumentative posts from this thread, as it still has merit.