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Author Topic: 2010 politics  (Read 7129 times)
DKT
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« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2010, 06:00:10 PM »

Talia's post was no apology.  I am sorry for saying that those who belive like President Obama are evil.  I will ammend it to politicians that believe as he does are.

No, actually she did apologize, and then she civil enough to say she didn't want to offend anyone else and wouldn't be participating anymore.

This thread was started as commentary on the political landscape.  I admit that I inserted my personal belefs by cheering for gridlock and then later stating my personal beliefs about the President.  Please split the argumentative posts from this thread, as it still has merit.  

Right now, your posts (and the ones reacting to it) are all the current discussion this topic has merited. So if people want to contribute something more to it, then they can do it here.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 06:01:52 PM by DKT » Logged

Zorag
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« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2010, 06:03:27 PM »

Talia basically called all Tea Party members racists on her way out. 
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« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2010, 06:16:15 PM »

Eytanz, I just saw your post.  I missed it earlier.  You are correct, I should have said causing evil.  It is an important distinction.  I did not start this thread to troll.  Look at the earlier posts.
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Boggled Coriander
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« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2010, 02:12:34 AM »

Okay, I know I'm late to the party.  This thread's touched on something that's been on my mind lately, and I can't not say something.

Zorag, I agree with the sentiments you expressed in the early part of this thread, even if I don't always support your politics.  You didn't start this thread to troll.

Although there's a lot about the Tea Party I do not agree with, I agree that we shouldn't go around saying the Tea Party is racist.  It's not entirely about civility, although civility is an important part of it.  I also think it's very, very bad politics.  Lots of Tea Partiers feel liberals are condescending to them, and think they're bigoted ignoramuses.  As the meme that Tea Party = Racism spreads, what do you think will happen?  Tea Partiers will take that as confirmation.  They'll feel even more on the defensive, and get insular and stop listening to people with different viewpoints. 

If your political opponent thinks you're a jerk and won't listen to you, THAT DOES NOT HELP YOU AT ALL.

It works in both directions. 

The statement "Policies pursued by Presidents Bush and Obama have caused evil" feels much different from "I would go as far as to call him and those that believe like him evil."  Zorag, I realize you've already regretted saying it the way you did and I appreciate that.  I'm not trying to lecture anybody, and I apologize if I'm coming across that way. 

But you've made a huge subset of this thread readership mentally categorize you with Americans who like to compare the President to Hitler, or think it's appropriate to call him a Muslim.  You haven't said any of those things, I know.  But I feel like those people have already stopped listening to you.

And that doesn't help you at all.
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« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2010, 05:36:42 AM »

Well put, B.C.  Talia, feel free to chime in.  I, as others have stated better, do not care if you, I or anyone else says anything about the politicians, but let us agree to lay off the followers.  I do believe in the inheirant awesomeness of the human spirit, but my approach is not a gentle one.
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« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2010, 05:46:35 AM »

...and now to jerk this back on topic.  The Republicans are facing a possible scism.  The Tea Party, as fractitious as it is, is shaking up the party.  Democrats have traditionally been more of an umbrella party, and have experience at building a coalition from differring opinions.  This is the first time in my experience that the Rs will have to deal with such inner turmoil.  Many of the Tea Party are rebeling against the traditional leadership.
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« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2010, 05:56:15 AM »

When Clinton lost Congress, he moved more to the center, and managed to accomplish some things by being less partisian.  Bush increased the power of the executive branch.  With the Senate staying in Democratic control, it will be interesting to see what approach Obama will take.
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« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2010, 03:59:03 PM »

While I see your point, I'm not entirely sure what you want. I mean, we are one country. You almost seem to be arguing in favor of things being run more like 50 mini-countries. (although if we did that then built a wall between certain southern states and the rest of us, that'd work out OK :p). Well, I mean you said want you wanted, but I just don't really understand why its so important to you. After all there's no guarantee your state goverment wont proceed to act like a bunch of douches, either. (Referring back to CT again - John Rowland, I'm lookin' at you!)

50 individual states work like a marketplace of ideas. What works well in one market might not be a great solution for another market. Us Southerners don't need you yankees legislating to us the proper level and type of sweetener we put in our tea.  Wink

If your state is terrible and you feel strongly enough to move, it's not terribly painful to move from one state to another. It's a lot harder to consider moving from one country to another.
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« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2010, 10:52:01 AM »

Those who dislike either of their own parties should seriously check out the new episode of THIS AMERICAN LIFE - in particular, the segment on the life-long friends who found a tea party organization is painfully truthful about what the road to hell is paved with...

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/417/this-party-sucks

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm a huge fan of This American Life, but hadn't gotten to this one yet. It was heartbreaking to hear about idealists within the Tea Party essentially fold. And I say this as someone who is very much not a Tea Party person.

And I was nodding my head a lot with Democrats sharing frustration with their own party.

So thanks for pointing it out!
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stePH
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« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2010, 10:44:13 AM »

When Clinton lost Congress, he moved more to the center, and managed to accomplish some things by being less partisian.  Bush increased the power of the executive branch.  With the Senate staying in Democratic control, it will be interesting to see what approach Obama will take.

Obama started in the center. What's he going to do now... move further toward the extreme right?
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« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2010, 01:21:09 AM »

Obama started in the center. What's he going to do now... move further toward the extreme right?

I thought there was some discussion to end the deliberate trolling and lobbing of flamebait...
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stePH
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« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2010, 10:38:28 AM »

Obama started in the center. What's he going to do now... move further toward the extreme right?

I thought there was some discussion to end the deliberate trolling and lobbing of flamebait...

Who's trolling or flamebaiting? I'm just calling it as I see it. Obama was never the "far-left socialist" that the right tried to paint him as, and he's continued many of Bush's more repugnant policies.

But whatever. Guess I'm out; see ya in other threads.
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birdless
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« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2010, 03:49:17 PM »

Those who dislike either of their own parties should seriously check out the new episode of THIS AMERICAN LIFE - in particular, the segment on the life-long friends who found a tea party organization is painfully truthful about what the road to hell is paved with...

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/417/this-party-sucks
Oh! I haven't listened to that one yet! Thanks for the preview! I'll be listening to it on the way home. My political views on FB are listed as "political cynic." I feel like everyone (i'm not sure if there is hyperbole in that noun for me) in gov't is more interested in representing Washington's ideas to us rather than our ideas to Washington, and trying to figure out what they can do for themselves or their party. I don't LIKE believing this, but this is how it appears to me. I'm hoping that something/someone can restore my confidence.
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« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2010, 09:19:42 PM »

Steph, Obama may be in the center on some issues, but not the majority.  I am not calling him far left.  Clinton only changed his approach after the government shut down anyway.  One aftermath of the election seems to be the near extinction of centrist Democrats in the House.  It seems to me that the more left leaning Dems had better results in voter turn out.  Anybody who lost by 1 percent could have won if they had a more energized base.
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« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2010, 05:45:03 AM »

And so it goes. (sigh).
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« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2010, 07:38:02 AM »

Kibitzer, what are you replying to?  This is a chaotic thread.  Kind of fitting, though.
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« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2010, 07:45:08 AM »

I should also note that the moderate Republicans had the same problem as the moderate Democrats.  There were more attack ads than usual this year.  It almost seems that many people just went out to vote against candidates.  The Green and Libertarian parties really missed an opportunity, IMO.
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« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2010, 04:38:19 PM »

So i've listened to all but the last 4 minutes of This American Life's "This Party Sucks," and it's just served to confirm my cynical view of politics. I was so disappointed that Rick caved to the spin cycle the GOP offered him. And they were so matter-of-fact about the blatant lie regarding the departure of Rick from the independent guy's campaign (can't remember his name right off hand). I don't see this as a uniquely Republican shortcoming, either—i believe this is SOP for politics in general. I did like the phrase "principal over party," but i wasn't left with the impression that anyone is really ready to commit to that motto. I honestly feel like that both sides are so diligent about gaining support from other politicians or supporting their own party line that the voters needs are a irritating distraction to what they want to accomplish, which is some self-serving BS of one variety or another. Then the independents are stuck in a netherland of having to compromise their ideal to even get competitive. So yeah... i hope i'm wrong, but this is how the whole political landscape reads to me. I am, admittedly, not an avid follower of politics (the only reason i even poked my head in here was to see how everyone was getting along on such a hot topic, and to see if i could learn a little something in the process Smiley).
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DKT
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« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2010, 04:41:20 PM »

Yeah, that bit broke my heart, too.
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« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2010, 04:46:06 PM »

Birdless, for someone who doesn't follow politics, you have a pretty solid grasp on the current landscape. 

I don't know what could help turn the tide.  One of the biggest problems I see is that Greens and Libertarians are polar opposites.  I really think term limits would help some, but we may be too far down the road now.
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